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Satan
12-02-2002, 12:43 PM
I would first like to admit that yes, I know I am an idiot.
That said, I was wondering about Tool's colors in Lateralus.
"Black and white are all I see, in my infancy, red and yellow then came to be, lets me see etc."
These four colors are of extreme significance in some Native American myths and such. I don't know too much about all of them, but they supposedly show up all over the place. I read a book called Black Elk Speaks, and in the Lakota culture, Black (sometimes blue) is for the west, White is the North, Red is East, and Yellow is South. This may be just another of the spirals in the song, like the Fibbonacci thing, but I think there might be more to it. Also, Red/East is connected with wisdom, and Yellow/South is connected with life and nature. Did anyone else see this meaning or am I seeing more things that aren't there? If anyone knows a lot about other native american cultures, could you help me out?

seeker
12-04-2002, 07:48 AM
i have heard of these colors being linked to aboriginal people, but i still haven't found the time to do any more research into that. it sounds very interesting to me, and i think you are most definately on the right track. i believe maynard mentioned the aboriginals in an interview when those colors were brought up... if you haven't read it, check it out:

http://www.cdicarlo.com/paper_04maynard.htm

Satan
12-08-2002, 03:29 PM
Thanks to enemyjupiter contacting me over aim, I think I now understand the connection to Native American spirituality. Each color is symbolic of a direction, but that is consequential to whatever culture you reference. I'm guessing whichever culture Tool got this from, if indeed they did, had these direction/color connectios so that black-white-red-yellow went in a circle, another neat little spiral of the song. Much more significantly, however, the colors represent the following:
Black - Body
White - Soul
Red - Mind
Yellow - Heart

so the significance would go like this: I begin as a simple creature, black and white, flesh and bone, body and soul. Through whatever form of evolution, enlightenment, spirituality or whatnot, I come in touch with my mind and heart (emotion). In spiralling "out," I learn more about what is in, or maybe they think these things exist outside the self. I like Jung a little too much, so I might be biased when I say this may be more connection to the collective subconcious. Ready for overthinking? Here it goes. According to this enemyjupiter fellow who has studied plenty of native american spirituality, these four things body/soul/mind/heart exist seperately in a certain sense, but they are all so strongly connected that they are basically together as well. Therefore, seperating the body and mind is a bad thing. Doing so would cause them to "move" out of sync with each other. When we bring Jung's stuff in here, there is an aspect of the mind (and heart??) which is essentially external, called the collective subconscious. Seperating the body from mind may mean they are already seperate. if body and soul come before mind and heart, and the mind and heart let me see, perhaps body and mind begin seperated in a certain sense, the collective subconscious, and then with whatever they're singing about with the spiral connects the two, brings them together. The later seperate body from mind refers to the forsaking of physical things in favor of something more intellectual. I think I even lost myself there. Oh well, its an odd little interpretation, and I'd like to complete it by saying "mmmmmmmmmmm, pie!" Long live Weebl and Bob, tho' they have no connection to Tool whatsoever.

theologue
12-09-2002, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Satan

"Black and white are all I see, in my infancy, red and yellow then came to be, lets me see etc."


On a more literal level, infants can only see black and white. I think red and yellow might be the first colors they are able to see, but I'm not sure. I think there is also a deeper meaning in the color scheme after reading that interview... i think you're right, he probably did that on purpose to have each color represent mind, body, soul, etc.

seeker
12-10-2002, 03:40 AM
well that certainly does shed a new light on the line "overthinking, overanalyzing separates the body from the mind". the words "overthinking" and "overanalyzing" always kind of had negative connotations, but the idea of separating the body from the mind didn't seem to. now i can see how it may be so... if body and spirit were first and mind/heart later joined the whole, then separation may not be a good thing. interesting.

evilentity
01-06-2003, 09:00 PM
Everyone interested in this post may also find the following post enlightening.

http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1737

jpmanson
01-06-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by theologue


On a more literal level, infants can only see black and white. I think red and yellow might be the first colors they are able to see, but I'm not sure. I think there is also a deeper meaning in the color scheme after reading that interview... i think you're right, he probably did that on purpose to have each color represent mind, body, soul, etc.

in a psychology class i took a year and a half ago, im pretty sure we went over this a little. i think this has been revealed to be a myth, and that infants see colors, but they cant focus very far.. something like that, it was a while back, and im not too sure anymore.

(R)
01-24-2003, 07:35 PM
I'm currently reading a book called The Occult by Colin Wilson which was written back in 1971. There was a bit of information in the introduction of the book. He was talking about the state of the human race over the course of evolution, and he mentioned about how us people today recognize more colors of the spectrum than people around 800 years. It was Homer that said that the sea was the same color as wine... but that's nothing to do with anything.
At one point of our evolution, man recognized four colors (and the colors that are made by the colors combined of the four). and those colors are.... take a guess... c'mon...

Black
White
Red
Yellow

Actually i haven't picked up that book in awhile. If it wasn't so late I'll pick it up now.