Asrar-e-Khudi

[TheDisturbed1]

i was reading a poem written by Allama Iqbal called Asrar-e-Khudi (Secrets/Potentials Of The Self).i think Lateralus talks about the same issue.in the poem Allama Iqbal says that the self can reach great hieghts but not without help of God..we should submit our Ego(Self) to the divine Ego(God) in order to make ourselves divine but on the other hand human aswell!i was amazed to read this poem and i think this poet has done a great job.he was a muslim but his message was for everyone and i guess thats what Islam is...its universal...do read his poem,they r usually in Persian and Urdu but have been translated into English by many people!.heres a qoute by Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him):

'Build In Yourselves,The Attributes Of God'

i think these philosophies are very similar to that of Tool as their message is universal aswell.they tok about things which aren't confined to a nation,society or person..thats what i love about their songs!...

[reign3]

I think that's interesting and it may have some similarities. But I think Lateralus is about finding the divinity within yourself, not submiting to anything else. And I don't agree with you that Islam is universal. I personaly don't believe in submiting yourself to a god. I don't believe in the one god, a lot of people don't. I think we all have god-like attributes and I think Lateralus is about finding them within ourselves.

[TheDisturbed1]

i wont argue with u over ur believes...but being a Muslim i think i know whats Islam.anyways,lets not fight over our creeds.when i said that we should submit to God,i meant that we should unite with the divinity within ourselves.i never meant to say that we forget about ourself and negate ourself or anything of that sort,WE r all thats real,everything else is an illusion.there was this another Muslim philosopher called Mansur Hallaj who said that God is in our souls.we are an image of God.we hold divine attributes which have been left dormant.to awaken ourselves and acquire these attributes of God will make us Divine but at the same time human.the purpose of our life is to search within our souls,the Spirit of God.i'd like to qoute a few verses from some of Iqbal's poems which may further help u,this passage has been taken from the book 'Life Of Iqbal Pt.II':

The cenral point of Iqbal is 'Self'.He denounced self negation and advocated the idea of self affirmation.He held the purpose of life is not to be absorbed in God,but that God should be absorbed in man.He held that the life is a struggle for freedom.He regarded the Quran as the source of Philosophy,and held that the main purpose of the Quran is to awaken in man the higher concsiousness of his manifold relations with God and the universe.He enunciated the doctrine of movement in Islam and exhorted the Muslims to be progressive and abreast of times without loosening their roots in Islam.The philosophy of 'Self' stands of self-realisation,self-help, and self-affirmation.

He stands for the for the exaltion of 'Self'.He says:

"Exalt your Self to such an extent that before each decree,God may enquire man,what is thy wish."

According To Iqbal everything in the universe is endowed with egohood(Selfhood).Egohood is the end to which all our activities lead.the idea of egohood gives us a standard of value.that which fortifies it is good,that which weakens it is bad(this refers to Consequentalism,which Tool talks about in 'Sober').Iqbal holds that in the whole universe there is a tendency to grow as an indivisual.the highest form of it is the ego,in which the indivisual becomes a self-contained exclusive centre.the universe and everything therein is the self-revelation of the great 'I AM'.Every atom howsoever low in the scale of existence is an ego.in the words of Iqbal throughout the entire gamut of being runs the gradually rising note of egohood untill it reaches its perfection in man.He says:

"The form os existence is an effect of the Self
All u see is the secret of the self
"Because of the courage and resove of those who have developed self
A small stream has assumed the dimensions of a fathomless ocean
"look into thy own clay of fire,
the light of another is not worth striving for'
"As the life of the universe is because of the strength of the Self,
Life in portion to the strength of Self.
When a drop of water develops it Self
It becomes a unique pearl
When life gathers strength from the Self
the river of life expands into an ocean
In the perfection of self is Godhood
The force of Self makes a mustard seed into a mountain
Deprived from the self the mountain is a speck of dust
Self Alone is the reality in the universe
All the rest is a mirage

i think this pretty much explains it,but i advice to read his poems and books.he has given many lectures that u may be able to relate with the Philosophy that Tool has been teaching us!..the idea is that God is in the 'Self' and we have to find Him.

[reign3]

I guess I may have misunderstood your first post. It just seems to me that most Muslims believe in the one and only almighty being that Christians also believe in.

But if you don't mean submitting yourself before a god and you meant what you said in your second post, I agree. I believe the divinity is within us and Lateralus is about discovering it.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

[TheDisturbed1]

no problem dude!i am glad u got my point.and yes Muslims believe in only one 'Superior Power' who i guess is within us!.