Be careful about intuition

[Metalanarchist]

I think the message in this song is a good one, but on the other hand intuition is not all it's cracked up to be. Intution literally means "the faculty of attaining direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought or inference." In layman's terms, that can be boiled down to "going with a hunch," wouldn't you say?

Sometimes this can be terrifically helpful — when your inner voice suddenly says, "Move!" and you do right before you get hit by a falling block. Or maybe it will help you in more mundane matters, like helping to choose between two or three different colleges to which you've applied; they are more or less all equal, but you get a strong feeling about one and that makes you comfortable in making a decision. This kind of intuition can take your life down paths you can't fully plan ahead of time.

On the other hand, this same intuition could lead to a disaster. Maybe your gut feeling about that school was way off, and the place turns out to be horrible. Or maybe you get caught up in the moment with your girl, and although you know you shouldn't have sex without protection, you do it anyway because you "just know" everything will be all right — and then she winds up pregnant. It could be even as simple as trying to figure out directions when you're lost — sometimes you'll be sure THIS is the right way, and sometimes you'll be right, and other times just get more lost.

I think intuition can be a useful "tiebreaker" when rational thought produces offsetting arguments of equal validity, or can help form an opinion in matters like faith, where there simply is no physical evidence to support the whole dogmatic package of a religion — you either take the leap of faith or you don't. But in my opinion, intuition is never a substitute for careful rational thought in the first place!

[paraflux]

This is my understanding of intuition. I am careful with my words because it isnt my desire to offend anyone or make them think I think I am any better. Intuition is what makes us part of God. Its the base of our souls, and is what links us to each other and therefore God. The "collective unconscious" is what people normally call this linkage. I call it the electric network. It is something that can be visualized, not just thought about. Anyway, intuition is natural, it is never forced, and cannot be destroyed, only ignored. If our will is aligned with that of the greater will, then our intuition should be loud and clear. It is never wrong. The only way it can be perceived as wrong is when we ignore even the fact that we ignored our intuition. We are great convincers of ourselves. So, regardless of what intuition is cracked up to be, it will never fall short of that description. Rational thought can come later, sometimes decisions have to be made in a split second. You can give the process rational characteristics if you desire, apply the math and chemistry as to why we get these "hunches," but rational thought as far as listening to yourself isnt important. If we listen to our intuition, we listen to God. How can that be wrong?

[rikij]

Do you think it's possible that intuition and rationality can be one and the same? Intuition isn't necessarily "going on a hunch." Your intuition is a product of you...it contains all your awarenesses, including those that you are both conscious of and that lie deep in your subconscious. Intuition is just one of the mind's many types of cognition...perhaps there are some people who learn to meld all these paths into one.

[dork]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikij
Do you think it's possible that intuition and rationality can be one and the same? Intuition isn't necessarily "going on a hunch." Your intuition is a product of you...it contains all your awarenesses, including those that you are both conscious of and that lie deep in your subconscious. Intuition is just one of the mind's many types of cognition...perhaps there are some people who learn to meld all these paths into one. [/QUOTE

Taking the definition of the word, the answer is no. rational thought requires back up. Intuition relies on an intangible, indefineable 'otherness' within us.

[paraflux]

Originally posted by rikij
Do you think it's possible that intuition and rationality can be one and the same? Intuition isn't necessarily "going on a hunch." Your intuition is a product of you...it contains all your awarenesses, including those that you are both conscious of and that lie deep in your subconscious. Intuition is just one of the mind's many types of cognition...perhaps there are some people who learn to meld all these paths into one.

I choose not to worry about it. Wondering about it might be important for you and others, but for me, all I seem to need is the knowledge that I am such a part of God. I dont have to know if it is being rational, because who defines rational? Man. If man defines anything then that means it has as many definitions as there are men in the world. ahhh, I just dont care. :) And its OK.

[paraflux]

When the fuck did I say that? I dont remember posting anything like that.

[paraflux]

Its cool. I just didnt remember typing that, and I wouldnt have written it that way either. And I only wish I had access to our infinite wisdom. soon...

[Metalanarchist]

Thanks for taking an interest in my musings, folks.

mstajduh: "learn to use your emotions, your mind, in the right moments and You'll be fine. In the end, it's all about what Your complete self really wants." OK, all well and good if that's the point you think I'm missing in the song. I think my original point / question was, when is it the right moment to go with intuition? And how do you learn that? Through making mistakes and experience, sure, that's what everyone does: we sure don't need a song from TOOL to tell us that! Is swinging on the spiral going around from rationality to intuition and around again until you're satisfied with the outcome? I'm just saying you post like you have the answer, but your response is somewhat cryptic to me.

paraflux: I am agnostic, so I don't take any offense (?!) at your post, but neither does it resonate with me. "Intuition is what makes us part of God." That is your belief, perhaps intuitively reached. All I feel comfortable saying is that intuition is one of the many functions of the human mind that is beyond our understanding... and many humans tend to assign to God's province that which is beyond the scope of current science. (And other believers accept scientific theory yet go on to claim God is the source of evolution, the laws of physics and all the rest.) "If we listen to our intuition, we listen to God. How can that be wrong?" Total speculation on your part. And I gave a few examples that I thought illustrated the shortcomings of intuition. So if you care to re-enter this thread with some more elaboration and clarification of your position, I'd be interested to read it.

[paraflux]

I use God as a metaphor. As an agnostic, do you have no beliefs? I am the same way, although I do not choose to categorize myself in such a manner. I hold no beliefs. Everything I think is based on my knowledge and what my intuition tells me. When I say I am a part of God, I mean that is what I call being part of the collective, being able to tap into spiritual energy and reflect it. If you do not think there is a collective consciousness underneath (or is it above?) everyone's individual consciousness, then we can go ahead and stop right there. I'm not asking you to believe anything. I am just relaying what I know based on personal experience, and my link with the source. If you dont want to call intuition a part of God, then would you simply call it a hunch? The voice that tells you what you need to know? Whatever you call it, I just call it something different. And it does not have to be beyond our understanding. That is the same fallacy Christians teach to each other. We CAN know all there is to know, all that Jesus supposedly knew, all that Mohammed knew, all that Ghandi and Bhudda and Krishna and John exiled on the Isle of Papmos knew. That's why I call it the Christ consciousness. Others call it Kind Consciousness, or simply acheiving the next stage in evolution (which may or may not be correct), or Nirvana, or whatever.

You say people like to assign values to God that are beyond the scope of current scientific understanding. Well, of course. The idea of God was here long before man created science to help us understand the workings of God. I dont see them as mutually exclusive at all. A spiritualist and a scientist might decide ther viewpoints are opposites, but only because they cant step outside their roles and see that the other side is also correct. Then we have a paradox. The process of unifying this paradox, the process by which two seemingly opposing forces realize they are but different aspects of the same thing, this is what I call a paraflux. When this unity is reached, we can laugh at ourselves and each other for being so... intent on being "right" and go get a beer.

Any and all speculation on my part was done with the disclaimer that this is what it meant to me. You are intelligent, so far that is my understanding, so of course I do not wish to imply these thoughts are the ultimate pinnacle of thoughts on the subject.

But I do know that my intuition will always lead me straight. Just yesterday I got an incredible feeling that I should save what I was working on at the studio. I hate stopping to save because when I get on a roll, I like to keep going or I feel the vibe will be lost. Anyway, I stopped to save it and not 2 seconds later the system crashed. Everybody gasped, I was the only one smiling because it was all good...

Why wait for rational thought when second-guessing ourselves is what could cause us to ignore the very voice implanted in us all? Why would you get a wrong idea about a school if you visit there? It doesnt matter what or who you are exposed to, you will get some feeling from the visit. I went to Oklahoma Christian University to visit when I was still in high school. I was a christian at the time, and the girl I desperately wanted to marry was going there the year after me. So I was set, right? I visited there, auditioning for a music scholarship, and even though everyone was super-nice, the atmosphere was classy, the accomodations were more than adequate, and my love was attending there the next year, I just got a bad feeling about it. The vision I had was that I would be suffocated there. Everyone was nice but waaaay too straight. Way too proper. That was not what I wanted in a school, I decided, and I went somewhere else, got in a band for 6 years, went to L.A. countless times to play at the Whisky A-Go-Go and other L.A. clubs, met the best guy in the world in my old drummer, and had many experiences that I would definitely not have had if I had gone to a christian school, namely, that one.

So there's my experience with intuition. I dont expect everyone else to have similar experiences, but my points still remain, as coming from my perspective.

[Ascended Master]

Intuition is the first thing that comes to your head. It is from your higher self. eg I'm walking down the street and bang in my head i think 'go to this little music shop down town', a splitsecond after this thought my brain thinks 'nah, fuck that it's pretty far away and why would i want to go there?'. Then i've overidden my intuition with my own mind by wondering why on earth to go there, but knowing taht this is a an intuitive feeling i go there and to my suprise i find an old mate who is interested in playing bass for a band. Just so happens we need a bass player, and hes pretty damn good too. Probably not the best of examples but hay when this happens everyday, in a little or big way, you can see what im trying to say, use your intuition today.