Tool is no longer aggressive enough.

[DavidG36]

I started listening to Tool because of the aggressiveness of the music, but though it was aggressive it still conflicted other emotions inside of you, like depression, and the music could take you to places you normally didn't want to go, but this was a good thing because the music was there to share with you those experiences, so that you felt comforted, and not alone when it took you there, rather than the music just being some cracker-jack box song.

Unfortunate to say, Tool now has a template as far as lyrics and vocal melody go... This album would be beautiful if Maynard didn't write the lyrics and melody himself... The heart and soul of Tool used to be Maynard, but since he has changed his style of delivery, Tool has kind of lost it's soul. Maynard joined A Perfect Circle and I think that has caused his style of melody writing, and lyrical writing to fit a more mild, and socially exceptable style of music.

Though Adam's guitar style, Danny's drums, and Justin's bass styles haven't changed at all, Maynard is now mutating Tool songs by laying down his vocals. To put it bluntly, there is no heat, or intensity in his voice, and he's really trying to adapt A Perfect Circle melodies into Tool songs. I think Maynard is an amazing lyrical writer, but the majority of these songs don't merit the quality of a Tool song. If any of these songs sound like Tool songs, they definately sound like they belong on Lateralus (which is the album where this began because of Maynard's side project.)

The only song on the album that sounds like it belonged on an old Tool album was The Pot, and even at that, it wasn't evolved to the extent of an Aenema track, but more like an Undertow track. I feel as though Maynard has lost his sense of passion in music, and this happens to most great song writers, whether he has or not, it's evident that he isn't interested with everything that Tool once was.

I would never accuse Maynard as selling out, because odds are this song isn't going to sell very well at all, but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs. It is also possible that he has lost his motives for writing songs... He now does it as a profession, I think.

And most importantly, he's doing what so many bands are doing now, complaining about things that they truely don't care about. I don't want to listen to an hour of a band complaining about government decisions, I want to hear a band singing about what they feel inside themselves, what truely means something to them, what makes THEM cry, what makes THEM happy. Music isn't about stirring up controversy, it's about expression.

They have lost their aggression, and you can tell, and the reason why is because Maynard isn't writing about things that really consern him. Whatever happened to a 6:30 rant about Los Angeles? This song you could feel, because you know for a fact that Maynard has seen Los Angeles, and he has strong emotions about Los Angeles, as for hating the Iraq war? And obsession with violence on TV? These are things I hear on the radio, and on TV all the time, and I am a very strong liberal democrate, needless to say singing about a topic which is relavent to the world isn't a good song, because if you truely don't care, there is no emotion.

[champion]

This is a mess.

[DavidG36]

I'm figuring most people aren't gonna want to agree with this,

[Zaxang]

The lack of screaming, or what you call "aggressiveness" is something I like about Tool's newer works. Yeah, on some songs the "aggressiveness" is there, and it's awesome and totally appropriate. However, I do like the chill, calm, powerful nature of most of the stuff on 10,000 Days and Lateralus.


And jesus christ...my previously reply was just to skimming your post...The latter half of your post is completely BS

"but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs. It is also possible that he has lost his motives for writing songs... He now does it as a profession, I think."

Have you even listened to 10,000 Days? Rosetta Stoned, Intension, ANY of it?

[endless_nameless]

My advice to you, Dave: buy a good pair of headphones, maybe smoke some weed, and listen to this album lying down in the dark. It might help you to appreciate the less aggressive parts of the album, and to realize that there is a whole spectrum of emotions out there, of which is anger is but one.

[holotrope]

Your opinion is yours to have, but I personally think these songs are coming from a very sincere and heartfelt sense of distress and frustration. I think this album (and lateralus) are extremely aggressive, they are just less manifestly ANGRY than before. The aggressiveness is coming out in different ways because everyone and their mother is screaming their balls off in heavy music these days.

Look at the modern rock scene, and then tell me that maynard is going 'commercial' by not screaming- that's nonsense. Kids are eating the screamy bands up right now. Maybe that's what you should listen to (or maybe that's what you have been listening to, and now you expect tool to sink to that level)

Of course maynard was going to take something from his experiences with a perfect circle, but so what? That's how people grow as artists- by exploring their creative dimensions and stretching them. Not by saying "hmmm people like what I did before, I'll just stick to that" which is exacly what you seem to want out of Maynard.

Then there's the nonsense about themes- how the hell do you know what does and doesn't concern maynard? Since when are people limited to emotions that are only about themselves?

David, you must live in a very small world if this is your outlook, and your words suggest it.

On lateralus, the lyrics were all overtly linked to their occult and spiritual interests, and communicated huge internal emotional struggles. On this album it seems much more personal.

How can you say that Maynard's emotions about his mother aren't drawn from his own experience? Or that his disdain of television and people's bloodlust taking over activity and human compassion isn't something that he actually feels?

Anyway, tool's music has many levels to explore, and what your post suggests is that you want them to remain a one-dimensional aggressive/angry band, and the only way not to be mainstream is to keep screaming.

I mean, come on man, even you must know that your post just doesn't make any sense.

[Satival Tributary]

Go listen to Cryptopsy then.

[dracomordag]

because metal is the only acceptable genre, right?

[StereoScopicLenses]

Tool makes 'Tool Music'. They don't make 'Metal' music or 'Pop Rock' music. DAVE, you need to chill out on the aggressive shit. Go shoot some more 'riods up your ass. Its been over a decade since undertow/opiate. Have you ever stopped to think that Tool as grown up. If you're not growing and evolving then you're just stuck in a rut. Just like crap bands like Seether and shit that are always on the Clear Channel Radio.

[StereoScopicLenses]

DAVIDG36: aight I didn't mean to bash you that hard. BUT if you want some good agressive music. Go to the store and buy some MESHUGGAH. I recommend "Catch 33" and "Destroy, Erase, Improve".

[burning bridges]

...or Chaosphere or I...

[Satan's Caulk]

StereoScopicLenses is right. Tool makes "Tool" music. We have to remember Tool is progressive. Why the hell would they put out another Aenima or Lateralus? This is just another shade of the overall entity that Tool is. 10,000 Days isn't agressive? Jambi?(That one part where Adam plays alone and everyone comes in, that is some heavy shit) Wings for Marie/10,000 Days is completley unnverving, Rossetta Stoned is just a crazy mess. Some of these songs I believe are some of the hardest Tool has ever done. They are just so frantic and relentless. Seriously...that part in Jambi makes me want to mosh. This album is very experimental and Maynard, along with everybody else is the band, is just doing what Tool does; trying things "From a different angle, under a different light." That is the beauty of Tool.

[Rosette feasted]

Nevermind, agression sucks ass.

I think Tool is no longer awesome enough.

[Matt8]

i love the calmed down parts. the mood it sets and the ambience. i love it. to each his own i guess. some people need the aggression but i like tools balance so it dosent sound so angry and stupid.

[DavidG36]

I'm not talking about him not screaming in particular it's more his lyrical content. I never enjoyed any of their screaming songs like Ticks and Leeches (excluding Third Eye.) The only songs on their that I believed were Wings for Marie, 10,000 days, and Rosetta Stoned.

I think fans get so dependent on a band's music that they try to cut them slack, so they can continue to enjoy their music, but unfortunately usually after a bands 3rd-4th album they no longer sound the same, or have the same views as they did before. The only band I've ever really liked that broke this loop was Rage Against the Machine, until they broke up they maintained the same views, and the music style never adapted.

I can see why no one agrees with me, it really is just a matter of taste. But I'm sorry that -I personally- can't listen to 10,000 days for hours in the way that I can listen to Undertow or Aenema for hours. And I don't get dedicated to bands in the way that you other fans do, I know when it's over, and when to let go of what the band once was. But just because I don't like their new music doesn't mean I don't respect them anymore, Tool will always probably be my second or first favorite band, but I'm not going to force myself to enjoy music I don't like.

As far as me liking screaming music, the only band that I can listen to that "screams" is Deftones, and I generally like calm music as much as aggressive music, such as Massive Attack.

[waffel]

This thread is classic. The OP came into this album EXPECTING it to sound like their previous aggressive works. Thats possibly the worst way to view any artwork form is to go in expecting anything.

If you read any interviews or even had a clue you would notice Tool is DONE doing the "dark aggressive mysterious" bullshit that worked for other albums.

I would never accuse Maynard as selling out, because odds are this song isn't going to sell very well at all, but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs.

So Maynard sold out because hes making different, BETTER music then before? Maynard is selling out because he didnt make Aenima 2?

They have lost their aggression, and you can tell, and the reason why is because Maynard isn't writing about things that really consern him. Whatever happened to a 6:30 rant about Los Angeles? This song you could feel, because you know for a fact that Maynard has seen Los Angeles, and he has strong emotions about Los Angeles, as for hating the Iraq war? And obsession with violence on TV? These are things I hear on the radio, and on TV all the time, and I am a very strong liberal democrate, needless to say singing about a topic which is relavent to the world isn't a good song, because if you truely don't care, there is no emotion.

Again, they seemed to have grown out of the "WAAA FUCK THE WORLD IT SUX" attitude and are approaching it differently. The best is when you say "Maynard is writing about things that dont really concern him" Good point, I guess the death of his MOTHER doesnt concern him at all.

I could go further but your post is so bad that I'm questioning wether or not its real or a joke.

[Loveboat Captain]

Yeah, a song about his mothers death. I bet he doesnt really care about that.

[DavidG36]

The post is real, and I said in a previous post that the Wings series were the only songs that had a personal meaning to them.

And I never said Maynard sold out, I said he's changed his style of writing music. You can tell that Vicarious was engineered to be played on the radio, and it will be played on the radio... over and over again. That doesn't mean he's a sell out, that means he has an occupation.

And yes I am mad that Tool isn't going to write Aenima like songs anymore, because Aenima was a great album, and it was the center and foundation of what Tool was all about. When bands start tweaking what they write and sing about they eventually break up.

None of you thought this album sounded like A Perfect Circle..?

[Loveboat Captain]

"None of you thought this album sounded like A Perfect Circle..?"

No.

And Maynard sounds as angry as I've ever heard him on Vicarious and The Pot.

[Amethyst Believer]

because metal is the only acceptable genre, right?
+20

[Dolophane]

So what you're saying is you like bands to stick with just one sound?

I gotta tell ya, man...Tool is probably not the band for you, then...

[xPOGOx]

Well...

1. I found 10,000 Days to be more aggressive than Lateralus.

2. I don't listen to Tool for their aggressiveness. I was a fan ever since I watched the Schism music video. I like the more ethereal sounding songs that Tool does most.


I've got a fuck ton of aggressive CDs. I've only got 4 CDs, and only 2 of them that really, really, really have that really great ethereal sound that I like so much in Tool (Lateralus, 10,000 Days).

[g-bay-be]

I understand what david is saying. let me give you an example. on push it, You can almost feel the pain as maynard is singing, you can feel it ripping at you soul, and Maybe 10,000 days does not touch him the same way. It touches me, i love the album. but it doesn't touch him as much as the other albums did....


and I can appreciate that. I didnt truely appreciate AENIMA until i was 17, I got the album when I was 14, I thought it was an awesome cd, but it didn't move me, until 2 or 3 years ago. It takes time to really let an album touch you, its like a fine wine, it takes time...

[Amethyst Believer]

I understand what david is saying. let me give you an example. on push it, You can almost feel the pain as maynard is singing, you can feel it ripping at you soul, and Maybe 10,000 days does not touch him the same way. It touches me, i love the album. but it doesn't touch him as much as the other albums did....


and I can appreciate that. I didnt truely appreciate AENIMA until i was 17, I got the album when I was 14, I thought it was an awesome cd, but it didn't move me, until 2 or 3 years ago. It takes time to really let an album touch you, its like a fine wine, it takes time...+25


I hope the new album ages well, but I have a sinking feeling it will not. Perhaps it is me that has changed, but Tool indeed do not seem as awesome any longer.

[Zulkis]

of course they R not as aggressive as before, they are older, wiser. They have a broader perspective on things, they use music as an instrument, a tool, to help cure themseves...every human being has the ability to cure himself...to heal. Can't anyone see that they are healing? Emotional healing is a very complex process i can't even begin to explain it...it's all about us, it's all inside of us...if people don't understand this album it is simply because they are not at the emotional level that this music expresses...after all this album (music) is not about any of you (us), so why would i judge it? how could i understand what it means to MJK? but if this healed him then it is the best music he ever wrote...remember this music is about him and him only...well the 4 of them...i hope no one is offended...

P.S.
english is not my primary language, forgive the lack of knowledge in it...

[pigvoll]

i think that their is a broad consensus that this album is not as sonically aggressive as previous albums and that mjk holds back on his vocal range to the detriment of the album IMO. When performing tracks live from previous albums, mjk had difficulty in hitting the high notes himself, i've seen a few shows and heard a couple of bootlegs, where as 10000 days, maybe other than the end of vicarious, he doesn't really scale the same great heights and most average singers can make the range.

I'm not sure what people mean when they say tool are doing new things and that this is a sign of maturity, development etc. yes, it is not as aggressive as previous albums, thats different but not necessarily developmental. i agree that too, shouldn't have to be as angry, but o don't believe that less anger equals more maturity. matchbox 20 isn't as aggressive either, doesn't equate with maturity.

i think this albums borrows most from past work and more so than lateralus and aenima borrowed from their predecessors. aenima was a huge quantuim and evolutionary leap at every level from undertow whereas most people can hear alot of previous albums 10000days.

My issues with the album is that it is not as aggressive and moving as previous albums, borrows alot from previous albums, and the new elements - mjk subdued vocals and vocal range, less aggression, increased harmonies, throwback to 70s rock, sounds like apc, is not particularly original and groundbreaking.

would be interested in feedback

[plastik]

Who gives a fuck. They're progressive, and that's all that matters.

[pigvoll]

Tool is progressive compared to the rest of the music world, of course, but have they really progressed from previous albums in light of my above points? im not sure they have...

[azatoth]

Being a rock band that’s arguably offering up some more intelligent processes, we do get often get a lot of kids coming up who may not necessarily be the brightest bulbs in the box, who don’t really get it. But if it is to be about ‘hate songs’ well, good for them. Not what I intended, but that’s cool.”


this came to mind reading the OP

[A-Bomb]

haha, what is this 1993? Did I miss something? Here Dave, grap onto the rope.......there's still a chance we might be able to save you.

On second thought, maybe we should just let this one go.

[A-Bomb]

this paragraph:

"And most importantly, he's doing what so many bands are doing now, complaining about things that they truely don't care about. I don't want to listen to an hour of a band complaining about government decisions, I want to hear a band singing about what they feel inside themselves, what truely means something to them, what makes THEM cry, what makes THEM happy. Music isn't about stirring up controversy, it's about expression."

Has to be the silliest thing I've ever read anyone say about Maynard or Tool's music.

You musta been soooooo high.

[?Cogito Ergo Sum?]

I feel a bit confused as to why the person who started this thread believes they should continue to sound the same, I'm guessing he's meaning from Undertow and Aenima (sorry browser won't let me type it right). Looks like this man (or boy probably) doesn't feel the need to grow. We must accept the fact that we change. Nothing to do about it, it happens unconcsiously. Refer to the beginning lyrics of "Jambi" and how he talks about the "tempting the devil" He's using the past tense. He has changed. You can have your opinion about aggression, but being some angst-ridden alpha male punk just won't cut it when you get older.

[?Cogito Ergo Sum?]

By the way, the song is absolutely beautiful.

[foma]

...
Perfect Circle and I think that has caused his style of melody writing, and lyrical writing to fit a more mild, and socially exceptable style of music.
...

I really hate you saying 'socially exceptable' you really can't play it on a party. try me.

can I ask the reason You started to listen to their music? I mean, there are 10k aggresive groups. most are crap, though. some aren't.
I began to like them when i read some of the lyrics (english is not my first language) and they captivated something of me...
it wasn't their aggressiveness, it was the insight.
was it aggressive or disposition, it COULD touch somethning within.
.....................
in '93 i was only nine, I knew them only after Ænima, and began to listen far after lateralus. I still enjoy most of the old songs.
But to everyine his own - 10k days just couldn't contain jerk off... it didn't fit.
I would bet ten bucks some future albums will, though :)
not as much as before, maybe... (?)
Oh, and remember that not all the things an atrist makes gots its way to the public and some of the work that does, isn't 'new'. who knows, maybe lateralus was concieved back in the early '90?
who knows :)

cheers

[Dashel]

A lot of hate here for someone in my mind who makes a valid point. I'm surprised myself that even after 6 rampaging years of a GW whitehouse the new album is as mellow as it is. Make no mistakes, TOOL has always been at their highest when they were aggressive as Ænima is still the pinnacle of their 'sound' for me.

That isn't to say I don't love the new stuff (moreso than most of Lateralus). Then again MJK is getting older and in the rock world they don't have much more longevity than the average baseball player.

I would like to give a big FU to all the people who would write off the love of aggressive music as stupid 'alpha-male' ragers. Aggressive/metal genre isn't something that you just 'grow out of'...I think you have it confused with nu-metal which is guilty of such charges.

[TurdEye13]

Rosetta Stoned?

[foma]

That isn't to say I don't love the new stuff (moreso than most of Lateralus). Then again MJK is getting older and in the rock world they don't have much more longevity than the average baseball player.
Man i was about to cry after reading you.

i think they will live loooong after their death.

that said, i'm gettin out of this fucked up place. and i mean really fucked up.
:,(

[?Cogito Ergo Sum?]

I apologize for the aggressive tone (how ironic) of my last reply. I just feel with their first Opiate and Undertow, yes very aggressive and I still like to listen to it, (been a fan since Aenima) they were young and for the first time they were voicing their own opinion to a mass audience. Of course your going to brash, pissed off, and saying whatever the hell they pleased. But you begin to see the change and growth with Aenima. Then the spiritualized enlightenment of Lateralus. And now (possibly too early to tell, yet what the hell) 10,000 days realizing that life moves on, death is always around the corner, have some fun while your here (I just love to laugh and enjoy Rosetta Stoned, I think it's more of a light hearted song), and ending on a note of looking back and seeing what we've done to each other and this spinning ball we live on. In the end, just adding the word "enough" to the title of this thread is the key. Maybe no longer as aggressive as they once were, but "enough" is only in the eye of the beholder.

[rembrandt_q_einstein]

I'm figuring most people aren't gonna want to agree with this,
i agree with some things... while others seem way off base

[Dashel]

...10,000 days realizing that life moves on, death is always around the corner, have some fun while your here ... and ending on a note of looking back and seeing what we've done to each other and this spinning ball we live on.
/clap

I think we could agree that it isn't that we just want pissy, angry lyrics...just a little more bite to the delivery. As you say though, 'enough' easily addresses that complaint.

[Hiredugan]

While I have been a fan of Tool for about 6 years now this is in my mind an absolutely fantastic album with a very nice mix of both mellow and harsh melody's. And a generous heaping of spiritual and heartfelt lyrics. While I agree that this album doesn't really sound a whole lot like their early endevors, I do have to say that I find this album to be much more relateable to myself and the decisions that I have made in my life. Therefor this album is going down in my mind as an all time favorite album that was made by Maynard.

[smeefsmeef]

You're beligerent

[bitter_enigma]

Tool are still just as aggressive.
I think they've changed their method and tone of delivery, but their message is still just as scathing when it comes to humanity (or rather, the lack thereof).

[Hiredugan]

Tool are still just as aggressive.
I think they've changed their method and tone of delivery, but their message is still just as scathing when it comes to humanity (or rather, the lack thereof).

True Dat!

[Koan]

My advice to you, Dave: buy a good pair of headphones, maybe smoke some weed, and listen to this album lying down in the dark. It might help you to appreciate the less aggressive parts of the album, and to realize that there is a whole spectrum of emotions out there, of which is anger is but one.

This is the definite way to experience a Tool record, in my book. I just hate it when people disregard something for it's lack of 'heavy-ness'. Music should be taken as it is and then it remains to be seen what it does for you. But the kind of meathead that just likes to bang their head, meh.

[evil agent]

Waaah, Tool's not agressive enough anymore, waaaahhhh...

Someone call a Whambulance.

[AlphaGeek]

Tool is no longer aggressive enough.

Fire them. Fire the whole lot of them and replace them with the dudes from green day and mushroom head and stuff. That will get you some aggression.

Do you truly believe this band had any intention of pandering to their fan base? Do you think the drum lines were written to appease those who purchase the albums? What about the record company that holds the contract, do you think the strings were written to meet a demographic, thus maximizing the sales and keeping the investors rich?

Keep in mind what this album is: It is an expression of the past 5 years events, thoughts and experieinces these guys have gone through - expressed through their medium. I don;t think it would have been fitting to have "turned up the aggression" for the sake of remaining "angsty" or "hard core". Let the music tell the story and don;t be upset because it is more somber or less hard.

I personally think this release is more angry than Lateralus lyrically, and less aggressive stylistically. It is a bit of a departure from what they have done in the past, but each album has been a departure from its predecessors.

I welcome the change and the glimpse into what the past 5 years has brought to the table.

[Dj Consequence]

[QUOTE=DavidG36] When bands start tweaking what they write and sing about they eventually break up.

If this is really your opinion, that's cool. But I have always found the exact opposite of what you speak of in Tool's music. Listen to every album in order and tell me you don't hear a progression...it's very obvious. To me this is one reason I love this band more than any other band around today. Most bands find a sound that works, then stick to that, because that's easy. To me, those are the bands that are doing what they do as an occupation. Do you really believe maynard needs to keep doing this? I have my sincere doubts. The fact that Tool changes their sound means that fans like you might be turned off, meaning they might make less money. If money was their motivation, they would have made Aenema 2, and they could have done that in their sleep, and that would've been a shame because we'd have no Lateralus. My point is: for any band to survive and not get stale, change is neccessary, whether you like it or not. My one complaint about 10,000 days is that it doesn't have the same feel as every other release by tool. In that it goes in many different directions. For me, every album up to this point has had a clear vision and has felt like one cohesive piece of music from start to finish. For me 10,000 days feels very mixed up. As many people have stated, they clearly draw from their earlier works on many songs (rosetta stoned in particular). Don't get me wrong, I love the new album, it just has a very different feel than their other albums, which is what I'm sure they were striving for. Lateralus will always be my favorite. Another good example of a band that truly grew in their career is the beatles. Tell me they would've had the same impact if they had written songs like "I wanna hold your Hand" for their whole career. Honestly.

[l3ster]

Tool makes 'Tool Music'. They don't make 'Metal' music or 'Pop Rock' music. DAVE, you need to chill out on the aggressive shit. Go shoot some more 'riods up your ass. Its been over a decade since undertow/opiate. Have you ever stopped to think that Tool as grown up. If you're not growing and evolving then you're just stuck in a rut. Just like crap bands like Seether and shit that are always on the Clear Channel Radio.


EXACTLY...I just got done posting a message about how it is crazy that people still say Tool is a metal band???? They are about the farthest thing from that, they are TOOL an ever evolving, learning force, creating a gateway to a positive moment in the lives of all who choose to allow it to.

[newalbumblows]

My advice to you, Dave: buy a good pair of headphones, maybe smoke some weed, and listen to this album lying down in the dark. It might help you to appreciate the less aggressive parts of the album, and to realize that there is a whole spectrum of emotions out there, of which is anger is but one.



F 'n hippies...

[tidewell]

Though Adam's guitar style, Danny's drums, and Justin's bass styles haven't changed at all, Maynard is now mutating Tool songs by laying down his vocals. To put it bluntly, there is no heat, or intensity in his voice, and he's really trying to adapt A Perfect Circle melodies into Tool songs. I think Maynard is an amazing lyrical writer, but the majority of these songs don't merit the quality of a Tool song. If any of these songs sound like Tool songs, they definately sound like they belong on Lateralus (which is the album where this began because of Maynard's side project.)


as far as the band's writing process is concerned, the music is written first and the lyrics go down last. This has always been they way the band operated and it's no different now then it was since the opiate days... so, as far as the more ambient songs go on the new tool albums, it has nothing to do with maynard gearing the band in that musical direction. I also, think it would sound a little silly if he was screaming over the more mellow stuff or having some hate inspired lyrics on top of it...

[Blanket_509]

I agree with the original post about the political stuff. I really don't care much for political songs. I don't need a song to tell me that hypocrisy exists in government. That kind of shit is clear as day, and we are way too far into it to dig ourselves out with anything short of a full-scale revolution (which could have been plausible up until about 150 years ago).

I'd much rather hear a song about a specific personal relationship than a distant, impersonal one. I would rather hear a song about war written by a veteran, a song about love written by a lover and a song about a garden written by the gardener.

[tidewell]

I agree with the original post about the political stuff. I really don't care much for political songs. I don't need a song to tell me that hypocrisy exists in government. That kind of shit is clear as day, and we are way too far into it to dig ourselves out with anything short of a full-scale revolution (which could have been plausible up until about 150 years ago).

I'd much rather hear a song about a specific personal relationship than a distant, impersonal one. I would rather hear a song about war written by a veteran, a song about love written by a lover and a song about a garden written by the gardener.

...we can look forward to maynard singing about the relationship with the grapes in his winery for future albums! :)

[EdwardJamesKeenan]

I'm not talking about him not screaming in particular it's more his lyrical content. I never enjoyed any of their screaming songs like Ticks and Leeches (excluding Third Eye.) The only songs on their that I believed were Wings for Marie, 10,000 days, and Rosetta Stoned.

I think fans get so dependent on a band's music that they try to cut them slack, so they can continue to enjoy their music, but unfortunately usually after a bands 3rd-4th album they no longer sound the same, or have the same views as they did before. The only band I've ever really liked that broke this loop was Rage Against the Machine, until they broke up they maintained the same views, and the music style never adapted.

I can see why no one agrees with me, it really is just a matter of taste. But I'm sorry that -I personally- can't listen to 10,000 days for hours in the way that I can listen to Undertow or Aenema for hours. And I don't get dedicated to bands in the way that you other fans do, I know when it's over, and when to let go of what the band once was. But just because I don't like their new music doesn't mean I don't respect them anymore, Tool will always probably be my second or first favorite band, but I'm not going to force myself to enjoy music I don't like.

As far as me liking screaming music, the only band that I can listen to that "screams" is Deftones, and I generally like calm music as much as aggressive music, such as Massive Attack.

I too know when to let go of a band who has lost it. I used to love R.E.M, infact i still do, they'll always have a special palce in my heart and i still lvoe their older music, but their newesr album just didnt do it for me.

Now this tool album is fantastic, i love it and to be honest i was unsure about it to start with, but it has grown on me and i lvoe it, i listen to it all the time when i am on my own, there so much emotin and feeling, its some powerful stuff. wether you view it as agressive or not.

[zaxius]

while i disagree with the main idea of the OP, i agree that many fans sort of convince themselves that they like a band's new album because they don't want to admit that the newer stuff is not as good as the older stuff, or that they don't like the new direction the band is taking...i know i'm guilty of it when lateralus came out, but even though i love lateralus i finally had to admit that Ænima was a better album.

[jenny]

I completely agree with you. Their older stuff is much better then their album now. I have been waiting so long for their new album and now that it's out I might be a little dissappointed. Although it is an amazing album, (or maybe i've convinced myself that it is) i can't say that any song reached me completely like some of their older music had.

[drayeva]

Maynard said ages ago that if a song ceases to be relevant (i.e. he might no longer be as angry) then it'll get dropped from setlists. Obviously same applies to the music they work on. Face up to the fact that they make music for themselves and not you. People change, thus the music they make has to change. Its pointless whining about the fact that their frame of mind no longer seems to fit in with yours.

[deep_schismic]

Ok man, I would have to say being a HUGE RATM fan (Tool and RATM were two of 3 bandst that actually changed my way of thinking, etc)...your theory on Rage Against the Machine IS THE REASON THEY BROKE UP. That band was a point where they should have evolved, and it was because they did not see eye-to-eye on how to go about it that caused the rift between Zack and company...

And as other people have already mentioned...screaming and saying fuck you is not the only way to be aggressive.

And seriously, Tool albums take years to grow on you. I am still appreciating stuff of Aenima...for example I most recently fell in love with Third Eye (a track i normally avoided previously)...In 5 years time I would say listen to 10,000 days and see how it sounds different when you too will hopefully be a different person...

I'm not talking about him not screaming in particular it's more his lyrical content. I never enjoyed any of their screaming songs like Ticks and Leeches (excluding Third Eye.) The only songs on their that I believed were Wings for Marie, 10,000 days, and Rosetta Stoned.

I think fans get so dependent on a band's music that they try to cut them slack, so they can continue to enjoy their music, but unfortunately usually after a bands 3rd-4th album they no longer sound the same, or have the same views as they did before. The only band I've ever really liked that broke this loop was Rage Against the Machine, until they broke up they maintained the same views, and the music style never adapted.

I can see why no one agrees with me, it really is just a matter of taste. But I'm sorry that -I personally- can't listen to 10,000 days for hours in the way that I can listen to Undertow or Aenema for hours. And I don't get dedicated to bands in the way that you other fans do, I know when it's over, and when to let go of what the band once was. But just because I don't like their new music doesn't mean I don't respect them anymore, Tool will always probably be my second or first favorite band, but I'm not going to force myself to enjoy music I don't like.

As far as me liking screaming music, the only band that I can listen to that "screams" is Deftones, and I generally like calm music as much as aggressive music, such as Massive Attack.

[Blanket_509]

...we can look forward to maynard singing about the relationship with the grapes in his winery for future albums! :)


hey, you know, I'd kinda like to hear that, haha.

[PriceisRight]

I can't say anything that others can say better....all I have to say is....

Some people make me want to cry...

[zaxius]

yeah it was hard to admit at first that they weren't still improving, that they had reached their apex, but of course that has to happen sometime, and Ænima was it.

[Snakedragon]

The only song on the album that sounds like it belonged on an old Tool album was The Pot

hah


the pot would have been completely out of place on any of Tool's previous albums.
Lateralus- it's too upbeat/not dark enough
Aenima-it's not really agressive enough
Undertow-it doesnt have the roughness it has
Opiate- too complex for it

[deep_schismic]

So I take it you don't see Tool as progressive music then. Oh well.

yeah it was hard to admit at first that they weren't still improving, that they had reached their apex, but of course that has to happen sometime, and Ænima was it.

[Koan]

There is alot more frustration, anger and bitterness on this album than on their last. This is really, at it's core, a blues record. The most sad record they ever made. And if it doesn't take you places like their other work, you're not listening like I am, 'cos it sure raises a storm in me.

[Amalexus]

David. Keep listening to aenima then if that is what you think is the pinnacle of their sound and aggressiveness. I personally listen to this album (10,000 days) everyday, i dont know, something about it i cant really put my finger on.

Anyway, tool wasnt meant to stay like aenima all the time, if it did, then tool would've died out a long time ago. The reason why they've stayed in the buisness for 20+ years is because of their constantly changing sound. If you dont like the new sound, thats perfectly fine, you have a right to your own opinion and tastes, find something else, (plenty of massive attack-like bands out there, or you could keep to aenima)

[martyrinexile86]

The post is real, and I said in a previous post that the Wings series were the only songs that had a personal meaning to them.

And I never said Maynard sold out, I said he's changed his style of writing music. You can tell that Vicarious was engineered to be played on the radio, and it will be played on the radio... over and over again. That doesn't mean he's a sell out, that means he has an occupation.

And yes I am mad that Tool isn't going to write Aenima like songs anymore, because Aenima was a great album, and it was the center and foundation of what Tool was all about. When bands start tweaking what they write and sing about they eventually break up.

None of you thought this album sounded like A Perfect Circle..?
I didn't. And do us all a favor and stop with the WAAA-IT'S- NOT- AENIMA PT. 2 bullshit. If they didn't evolve their sound and overall message then they wouldn't be a very credible band, would they? Get over yourself

[Opunaela10]

LMAO @ your avatar

[Opunaela10]

Smeefsmeef

and still....LMAO @ your avatar

[Randall]

and this is bad........

[Terry21]

Intension is not that agressive, yeah.

[Randall]

intension, is probably my favorite track on cd

[erkee]

As Danny has stated, music and art is generally a product of the environment. While there were definite global issues going on during Undertow and Aenima, the entire world wasnt completely involved as a psychological unit walking on thin ice like today. There was more time for mental space to be used on self reflection and questioning and Maynard captured this beautifully.

Now it's either a feeling of wondering apathy or deep concern that fills many minds due to the fragile and hostile environment. Once again, Maynard expresses this in a perfect sense.

I understand how this could be a taste thing, but the beauty of it for die hard Tool fans that dont see the beauty in this album for now, will definitely come in time. And it might be like a death of a loved one or a pet... those things that used to annoy the shit out of you, you realize how much they meant to you once it's gone.

[weesper]

I'd have to agree with David

I am actually disappointed with them serving up these has-been issues of aliens and trip recalls. Back in the days, Tool was known for writing stuff that actually reflected upon stuff like 'I'm just following orders..' (Intolerance), the malignancy of addiction (Sober) and order issues that actually MATTER!

Now it seems Maynard has chosen to direct that energy towards APC and leave the Tool community to wander about absolutely hollow issues such as trip recalls etc. The album is good but that's because the rest of the band has written some kick-ass confusing time signatures; if only Maynard would've put in his share and written some lyrics about things that matter...

[begmetostay]

I read it but all I heard was.....

in between sips of coke he told me that he thought we were sellin' out, layin' down, suckin' up to the man. Well now I've got some advice for you, little buddy. Before you point the finger you should know that I'm the man, and if I'm the man, then you're the man, and he's the man as well so you can point that fuckin' finger up your ass. All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit, and you bought one. So I've got some Advice for you, little buddy. Before you point your finger You should know that I'm the man. If I'm the fuckin' man then you're the fuckin' man as well, So you can Point that fuckin' finger up your ass. All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

[DON IOTAE]

I started listening to Tool because of the aggressiveness of the music, but though it was aggressive it still conflicted other emotions inside of you, like depression, and the music could take you to places you normally didn't want to go, but this was a good thing because the music was there to share with you those experiences, so that you felt comforted, and not alone when it took you there, rather than the music just being some cracker-jack box song.

Unfortunate to say, Tool now has a template as far as lyrics and vocal melody go... This album would be beautiful if Maynard didn't write the lyrics and melody himself... The heart and soul of Tool used to be Maynard, but since he has changed his style of delivery, Tool has kind of lost it's soul. Maynard joined A Perfect Circle and I think that has caused his style of melody writing, and lyrical writing to fit a more mild, and socially exceptable style of music.

Though Adam's guitar style, Danny's drums, and Justin's bass styles haven't changed at all, Maynard is now mutating Tool songs by laying down his vocals. To put it bluntly, there is no heat, or intensity in his voice, and he's really trying to adapt A Perfect Circle melodies into Tool songs. I think Maynard is an amazing lyrical writer, but the majority of these songs don't merit the quality of a Tool song. If any of these songs sound like Tool songs, they definately sound like they belong on Lateralus (which is the album where this began because of Maynard's side project.)

The only song on the album that sounds like it belonged on an old Tool album was The Pot, and even at that, it wasn't evolved to the extent of an Aenema track, but more like an Undertow track. I feel as though Maynard has lost his sense of passion in music, and this happens to most great song writers, whether he has or not, it's evident that he isn't interested with everything that Tool once was.

I would never accuse Maynard as selling out, because odds are this song isn't going to sell very well at all, but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs. It is also possible that he has lost his motives for writing songs... He now does it as a profession, I think.

And most importantly, he's doing what so many bands are doing now, complaining about things that they truely don't care about. I don't want to listen to an hour of a band complaining about government decisions, I want to hear a band singing about what they feel inside themselves, what truely means something to them, what makes THEM cry, what makes THEM happy. Music isn't about stirring up controversy, it's about expression.

They have lost their aggression, and you can tell, and the reason why is because Maynard isn't writing about things that really consern him. Whatever happened to a 6:30 rant about Los Angeles? This song you could feel, because you know for a fact that Maynard has seen Los Angeles, and he has strong emotions about Los Angeles, as for hating the Iraq war? And obsession with violence on TV? These are things I hear on the radio, and on TV all the time, and I am a very strong liberal democrate, needless to say singing about a topic which is relavent to the world isn't a good song, because if you truely don't care, there is no emotion.
SO FUCKING WHAT???

[deep_schismic]

Well stated there...Tool's music is like fine wine (probably why Maynard decided to grow his own)....only gets better with age. Can you imagine looking back on such music in 10 years? 20 years? 50 years??? We should feel privileged we are around in a time when we have a chance to watch these guys really grow as artists and human beings. You know how we all envy the generation that got to experience Pink Floyd grow from its beginning? Well, the future generations will have something to envy of us.

As Danny has stated, music and art is generally a product of the environment. While there were definite global issues going on during Undertow and Aenima, the entire world wasnt completely involved as a psychological unit walking on thin ice like today. There was more time for mental space to be used on self reflection and questioning and Maynard captured this beautifully.

Now it's either a feeling of wondering apathy or deep concern that fills many minds due to the fragile and hostile environment. Once again, Maynard expresses this in a perfect sense.

I understand how this could be a taste thing, but the beauty of it for die hard Tool fans that dont see the beauty in this album for now, will definitely come in time. And it might be like a death of a loved one or a pet... those things that used to annoy the shit out of you, you realize how much they meant to you once it's gone.

[koobcam]

They are becoming more and more legendary. They really are my new led zeppelin. Just a shame there's only 1 brit this time around... Hell, there wouldn't be Ænema without the guys from LA...

[duncang]

Ticks & Leeches.

Nuff' said.

[PriceisRight]

There is alot more frustration, anger and bitterness on this album than on their last. This is really, at it's core, a blues record. The most sad record they ever made. And if it doesn't take you places like their other work, you're not listening like I am, 'cos it sure raises a storm in me.


cosigned. Except it's not really angry as much as it's mornful and kinda pity.

[2and46]

I started listening to Tool because of the aggressiveness of the music, but though it was aggressive it still conflicted other emotions inside of you, like depression, and the music could take you to places you normally didn't want to go, but this was a good thing because the music was there to share with you those experiences, so that you felt comforted, and not alone when it took you there, rather than the music just being some cracker-jack box song.

Unfortunate to say, Tool now has a template as far as lyrics and vocal melody go... This album would be beautiful if Maynard didn't write the lyrics and melody himself... The heart and soul of Tool used to be Maynard, but since he has changed his style of delivery, Tool has kind of lost it's soul. Maynard joined A Perfect Circle and I think that has caused his style of melody writing, and lyrical writing to fit a more mild, and socially exceptable style of music.

Though Adam's guitar style, Danny's drums, and Justin's bass styles haven't changed at all, Maynard is now mutating Tool songs by laying down his vocals. To put it bluntly, there is no heat, or intensity in his voice, and he's really trying to adapt A Perfect Circle melodies into Tool songs. I think Maynard is an amazing lyrical writer, but the majority of these songs don't merit the quality of a Tool song. If any of these songs sound like Tool songs, they definately sound like they belong on Lateralus (which is the album where this began because of Maynard's side project.)

The only song on the album that sounds like it belonged on an old Tool album was The Pot, and even at that, it wasn't evolved to the extent of an Aenema track, but more like an Undertow track. I feel as though Maynard has lost his sense of passion in music, and this happens to most great song writers, whether he has or not, it's evident that he isn't interested with everything that Tool once was.

I would never accuse Maynard as selling out, because odds are this song isn't going to sell very well at all, but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs. It is also possible that he has lost his motives for writing songs... He now does it as a profession, I think.

And most importantly, he's doing what so many bands are doing now, complaining about things that they truely don't care about. I don't want to listen to an hour of a band complaining about government decisions, I want to hear a band singing about what they feel inside themselves, what truely means something to them, what makes THEM cry, what makes THEM happy. Music isn't about stirring up controversy, it's about expression.

They have lost their aggression, and you can tell, and the reason why is because Maynard isn't writing about things that really consern him. Whatever happened to a 6:30 rant about Los Angeles? This song you could feel, because you know for a fact that Maynard has seen Los Angeles, and he has strong emotions about Los Angeles, as for hating the Iraq war? And obsession with violence on TV? These are things I hear on the radio, and on TV all the time, and I am a very strong liberal democrate, needless to say singing about a topic which is relavent to the world isn't a good song, because if you truely don't care, there is no emotion.

...and you are no longer relevant enough to continue posting. Intension is a fine track, not my favorite, but very good. Sets the tone nicely for Right in Two...a kind of D/R/T without the Triad. Listen to it on drugs. Another track I initially didn't care for (the other being Rosetta, which I love now), but has gained momentum. This album seems to be getting better for me over time.

[stevejols]

Listen to it on drugs.

Hehehe.... Exactly.

Spark becomes a flame
A flame becomes a fire....

a lot of the lyrics are precious

and I love the music

This song hit me fast on the first listen... Its not my fav now but it was first listen so that should count for something

[CalfMan]

It strikes me as narrow-minded to complain that maynard "sounds like apc maynard" on this album (someone also mentioned this occurring on Lat) and then saying that it is because maynard is "selling out" or that he is "going commercial." It is the same fucking guy. period. and even if you feel that his work with the two different bands refers to itself and has similar emotions and themes, that just speaks to the fact that he is writing "from the heart" and putting himself and his emotions into the lyrics, he has always said that he doesnt think of the theme or concept for the lyrics first, he just reacts to the music. And that is another point, for those saying that maynard is driving tool to be more like apc, that is rediculus considering the last two albums were 95% musically complete before maynard was involved with the songs and writing the lyrics.

[xPOGOx]

Didn't Maynard say in the Revolver interview that he doesn't "put on an APC hat to write APC songs or a Tool hat to write Tool songs," or something like that...

...which is to say...

APC and Tool differ in song writing and musicians, but do NOT differ in lyric writing or vocalists...

[Rigby]

i think its up to the artist at that very time , what sort of song he will write . and what ever tool wrote(lyrically this time in 10,000 days is fine because thats what came out.
i will say that i loved lateralus the most out of all albums but this one didn.t hit me .......or leave a heavy mark as like the rest. after 5/6 years of inspiration i think they didn't Progress enough. im sorry to say this, but is the truth guys. something just way deep in side can tell you that. when u listen. on contrary i do feel maynard is more personal and thats fine too. i think when we all are 42 years old we can look out of their eyes and see if we still want to rock everyones socks off. these guys had there time in this life and im moving on. . to the next level. . .

[Rigby]

sorry, i meant" its the truth"

[xPOGOx]

and im moving on. . to the next level. . .
Please, help me. What are you moving on to?

[deep_schismic]

Please, help me. What are you moving on to?

I think Rigby's moving from the basement to the attic of his parents' house. Or possibly dying...you're not dying are you?

Ok that was kinda mean, but hey...i think that 10,000 days is too dense an album for people to have a wholly definitive opinion of after like a month and a half since its release, although I do see his point about them 'not progressing enough' since Lateralus...this album is not as big a leap in their sound compared to the leap between Aenima and Lateralus, as this time around, they are a little more self-referenced. thematically though, it is very much as progressive

[WinkyFrog64]

If you want aggressive listen to Morbid Angel and Deicide or something. Tool probably has more important fish to fry now.

[Caduceus11]

Isn't aggressive enough>? If you were listening just to aggression, I agree, go listen to death/thrash metal or something....TOOL has long surpassed what you heavymetal lightwieghts crave. The agression is still here, its just not so blatantly obvious so you most certainly missed it....maybe tool should write a song just for you...oh wait, I think he has....I bet you are wearing vans, 501's and a dope beastie tee....

[macfreak]

Indeed agression was an important part of tool´s music, but it has been getting lower and lower with every album it was not like it just dissapeared one day and i think tool are way better now than they were back in opiate/undertow years

[Caduceus11]

....and i think tool are way better now than they were back in opiate/undertow years



Its called maturity....their minds have grown. Sure, there are things about this world and this "humanity" that certainly inspire aggression. I am a quite aggressive person and things certainly get me angry. But I, as Maynard has done as well, have learned to channel the rage into something productive---like a song!

Those who have not grown with TOOL, seem to like only the old stuff that while still very deep, is only an indication of the depth of the new material. And I don't think I like any one stage of this progression or evolution if you will. Its all just a sequence to me. I LOVE it ALL. I just get so irritated at these people's bitching. 'Hooker with a Penis' now has even more validitiy than before now that I have been on these boards....
Hope this is what you wanted!!!

[Mister Moltar]

what part of "This is our blues album" did you not understand?

[apc_kid]

My advice to you, Dave: buy a good pair of headphones, maybe smoke some weed, and listen to this album lying down in the dark. It might help you to appreciate the less aggressive parts of the album, and to realize that there is a whole spectrum of emotions out there, of which is anger is but one.

I would have to agree with you, minus the weed part. That's how I had to listen to it. Laying down with my headphones. This album takes patience and concentration, because most of the tracks don't jump out at you like the majority of Aenima did for me.

[mr. nikki jensen]

Intension is IMO the next best piece of music on 10K days, after the title song.

Tool doesn't need to be heavy to make beautiful music.

[DON IOTAE]

^ I agree. with the second sentence.

[Opiate_Of_The_Mind]

I feel a bit confused as to why the person who started this thread believes they should continue to sound the same, I'm guessing he's meaning from Undertow and Aenima (sorry browser won't let me type it right). Looks like this man (or boy probably) doesn't feel the need to grow. We must accept the fact that we change. Nothing to do about it, it happens unconcsiously. Refer to the beginning lyrics of "Jambi" and how he talks about the "tempting the devil" He's using the past tense. He has changed. You can have your opinion about aggression, but being some angst-ridden alpha male punk just won't cut it when you get older.


I agree, VERY well spoken.

[AloneOnceAgain97]

None of you thought this album sounded like A Perfect Circle..?

My advice to you isn't to get a good pair of headphones, smoke weed, drink a beer, smoke human hair, drink piss, or listen to this album hanging upside down while pickled in vinegar in the dark; it's simply to not bother trying to convince people in the 10,000 Days subforum that 10KD isn't god of all albums; the majority of the people here are "lyke totally TOOL fanz!"; if Tool released an album comprised of nothing but protest for the War in Iraq (a more or less irrelevant war in the big picture), these people would listen to it on a regular basis and claim it's one of the top 10 albums of all time.

I agree with you about Maynard and the "new" Tool. And if you talk to people outside of the 10KD subforum, or the Tool forum period, you'll find that the overall verdict on 10KD is that it is weak sauce. But it's best not to talk about it here.

When in Rome.

[(self(other]

And yes I am mad that Tool isn't going to write Aenima like songs anymore, because Aenima was a great album, and it was the center and foundation of what Tool was all about. When bands start tweaking what they write and sing about they eventually break up.

nobody wants to be a "did i do that?"


None of you thought this album sounded like A Perfect Circle


yea and on Lateralus

[TheJuiceOfSatan]

They didnt do anything really new on this album. But what are you gonna do? It may not have been as big of a leap forward as we expected, but what are you gonna do? This is what they made. Either like it or dont. Theyre not gonna go back and record another album just to make people happy. And that is something to respect. They do what THEY want and fuck everyone else.

[Terry21]

They didnt do anything really new on this album. But what are you gonna do? It may not have been as big of a leap forward as we expected, but what are you gonna do? This is what they made. Either like it or dont. Theyre not gonna go back and record another album just to make people happy. And that is something to respect. They do what THEY want and fuck everyone else.

Allthough I agree with you that they don't have to let themselves be taught by other people what to do, this is still music. How did you get the idea that music is a "do-what-YOU-want-and-fuck-everyone-else" thing? I think it's not.

[HelenA]

What a depressing thread. I have read it all. Sigh. I know that some very thoughtful people have replied and addressed these issues (thankyou ?Cogito Ergo Sum? and Caduceus11) but I am so cranky I just have to say something.

I just DO NOT understand why anyone would want to listen to a band which is stuck in one place. Why would anyone want that? Do you want them to construct anger just to please you. If they had created an David-esque aggressive album to please their fan base then they would have been selling out to the man. As it is they have produced an album that tells us where they are. Did you expect them to wear the grudge like a crown? Clearly they were going to transmute into something new.

I am a new fan (and probably a bit obsessed) BUT I do not understand why anyone who has heard Lateralus (the album and the song) would not be expecting and anticipating and hoping for Tool to spiral out into something new. SURELY that would have been the obvious thing and anything LESS than that would have been surprising.

And yes:

.... if Tool released an album comprised of nothing but protest for the War in Iraq (a more or less irrelevant war in the big picture), these people would listen to it on a regular basis and claim it's one of the top 10 albums of all time.

This is probably true. My first Tool experience has been 10,000 days so I can't say what I would have done but I can tell you that if I am privileged enough to hear what happens next I will embrace whatever comes with a ready and willing attitude.

Man - this has seriously pissed me off!

I agree with you about Maynard and the "new" Tool. And if you talk to people outside of the 10KD subforum, or the Tool forum period, you'll find that the overall verdict on 10KD is that it is weak sauce. But it's best not to talk about it here.

When in Rome.

Yeah. Whatever. That is why the new gig in Sydney sold out in 90 mins and 10,000 days went straight to number one in what was it? 18 countries? I can't remember. AND why people like me - who have never really listened to 'metal' before (IF it is that) are listening to Tool with tears in their eyes.

And I will tell you another thing. Buddy. David. THEY are the band. They have been loyal to each other and couragous in their journey. They play instruments to a level of skill I can only dream about. They write stuff - epic life changing lyrics. Maynard puts his heart out there about his mother's death. All we do is put in our cd player and listen.

So have some fucking respect.

[Volrath]

LOL way to take a mediocre album to seriously, lighten the fuck up.

[sonnyboy11]

LOL way to take a mediocre album to seriously, lighten the fuck up.

LOL way to be a jackass! Your opinion is no more or less important than the person before you, so put a sock in it, idiot.

10,000 Days is probably Tool's best album and one of the great things it is doing (outside of being great musically) is weeding out the jackass fans. I swear, nothing fills me with glee more than seeing some of you so-called 'Tool fans' so down on this record and pining for the days when Tool was 'more aggressive'. See ya and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Seriously, this album upsets you because, WAH!, it's not the Tool album you wanted? GOOD.... GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD.


GOOD!

[HelenA]

LOL way to take a mediocre album to seriously, lighten the fuck up.

NO WAY!! I read all three pages and just got crankier and crankier. I hardly EVER get cranky. But this kid ... man. I mean lets get this into perspective. I know he is entitled to his opinion but honestly.. did he read his post before he sent it? And so many internal contradictions. It is just that Tool have affected me so emotionally through 10,000 days. I can't quite come to terms with some dodgy 'fan' saying that it isn't what they were expecting therefore it isn't good. It is GOOD. It is SO good.

[DON IOTAE]

hey d00ds

[(self(other]

LOL way to be a jackass! Your opinion is no more or less important than the person before you, so put a sock in it, idiot.

10,000 Days is probably Tool's best album and one of the great things it is doing (outside of being great musically) is weeding out the jackass fans. I swear, nothing fills me with glee more than seeing some of you so-called 'Tool fans' so down on this record and pining for the days when Tool was 'more aggressive'. See ya and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Seriously, this album upsets you because, WAH!, it's not the Tool album you wanted? GOOD.... GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD.


GOOD!

Good point... if the new album has let these people down so much, its only going to get worse for them so they might as well call it quits.

So Long. Wish You Well.

[Opiate_Of_The_Mind]

If you don't like the CD give it to someone who will like it. If you are going to dislike Tool because of their new sound. (Which is still Tool.) Then, please send any Tool hoodies, shirts, extra CD's (Always a good thing to have a few copies.) ect to me:)

[teeth]

Opiate is the 5th best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Undertow is the 4th best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Aenima is the 3rd best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Lateralus is the 2nd best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
10000 Days is the best Album ever made in the history of the universe..

life feeds on life feeds on life...

[clarity.]

Opiate is the 5th best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Undertow is the 4th best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Aenima is the 3rd best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
Lateralus is the 2nd best Album ever made in the history of the universe..
10000 Days is the best Album ever made in the history of the universe..

life feeds on life feeds on life...

First of all, Opiate is an EP.

Second of all...you're an idiot. Tool is by no means the best band ever who has created the best music ever. Grow up, grow some taste, and destroy the thinking that led you to write that post. Seriously. There is much better music than Tool so just go out and find it...

[(self(other]

First of all, Opiate is an EP.

Second of all...you're an idiot. Tool is by no means the best band ever who has created the best music ever. Grow up, grow some taste, and destroy the thinking that led you to write that post. Seriously. There is much better music than Tool so just go out and find it...

but I dont wanna :*(

[HelenA]

but I dont wanna :*(

Me neither!

[DON IOTAE]

HAHA

dont worry, teeth, i got the joke. Opiate is an EP!!!

HAHAHA!

[discocj69]

First of all, Opiate is an EP.

Second of all...you're an idiot. Tool is by no means the best band ever who has created the best music ever. Grow up, grow some taste, and destroy the thinking that led you to write that post. Seriously. There is much better music than Tool so just go out and find it...

You should post your favorite music. Then someone can tell you that you're an idiot for thinking it's the best ever and that you should grow some taste.

It's not like he said Britney Spears is the best musician in the universe. Who are you to tell someone to destroy their thinking?

[Starscream1983]

I have listened to tool for around a decade now.
I think the only thing i can say about tools evolution is..... when i started listining to them i was angry and full of spite. I think that if you say that the music isnt aggressive enough for you now, then you may want to look at yourself as opposed to maynard. (I dont mean anything insulting by this btw) I have grown out of my anger and have tried to become a better person. So as tool grew in a new direction lyrically and vocally, I did as well. So maybe, instead of saying you don't want to hear the band change this way, you should try and grow and expand your musical taste a bit. I think that the band has musically become more impressive all around. They know they have a pull with some lost souls around the globe, so instead of re-hashing the same anger over and over and over they try and help people with their influence, and i commend them for it. But can you really ask someone to live with his demons, and not try and overcome them or better himself, just so you can get aggressive music? I can't do that to anyone. I love this album, I have loved everyone of their albums, though.

[iAMtheMA!]

LOL way to be a jackass! Your opinion is no more or less important than the person before you, so put a sock in it, idiot.

10,000 Days is probably Tool's best album and one of the great things it is doing (outside of being great musically) is weeding out the jackass fans. I swear, nothing fills me with glee more than seeing some of you so-called 'Tool fans' so down on this record and pining for the days when Tool was 'more aggressive'. See ya and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Seriously, this album upsets you because, WAH!, it's not the Tool album you wanted? GOOD.... GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. GOOD.


GOOD!
FUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! good stuff indeed.
i only wish my "intension" was as absolute as that post right there.

[caliphornia]

I started listening to Tool because of the aggressiveness of the music, but though it was aggressive it still conflicted other emotions inside of you, like depression, and the music could take you to places you normally didn't want to go, but this was a good thing because the music was there to share with you those experiences, so that you felt comforted, and not alone when it took you there, rather than the music just being some cracker-jack box song.

Unfortunate to say, Tool now has a template as far as lyrics and vocal melody go... This album would be beautiful if Maynard didn't write the lyrics and melody himself... The heart and soul of Tool used to be Maynard, but since he has changed his style of delivery, Tool has kind of lost it's soul. Maynard joined A Perfect Circle and I think that has caused his style of melody writing, and lyrical writing to fit a more mild, and socially exceptable style of music.

Though Adam's guitar style, Danny's drums, and Justin's bass styles haven't changed at all, Maynard is now mutating Tool songs by laying down his vocals. To put it bluntly, there is no heat, or intensity in his voice, and he's really trying to adapt A Perfect Circle melodies into Tool songs. I think Maynard is an amazing lyrical writer, but the majority of these songs don't merit the quality of a Tool song. If any of these songs sound like Tool songs, they definately sound like they belong on Lateralus (which is the album where this began because of Maynard's side project.)

The only song on the album that sounds like it belonged on an old Tool album was The Pot, and even at that, it wasn't evolved to the extent of an Aenema track, but more like an Undertow track. I feel as though Maynard has lost his sense of passion in music, and this happens to most great song writers, whether he has or not, it's evident that he isn't interested with everything that Tool once was.

I would never accuse Maynard as selling out, because odds are this song isn't going to sell very well at all, but I would definately say that he has inadvertedly adopted the commercial process of writing songs. It is also possible that he has lost his motives for writing songs... He now does it as a profession, I think.

And most importantly, he's doing what so many bands are doing now, complaining about things that they truely don't care about. I don't want to listen to an hour of a band complaining about government decisions, I want to hear a band singing about what they feel inside themselves, what truely means something to them, what makes THEM cry, what makes THEM happy. Music isn't about stirring up controversy, it's about expression.

They have lost their aggression, and you can tell, and the reason why is because Maynard isn't writing about things that really consern him. Whatever happened to a 6:30 rant about Los Angeles? This song you could feel, because you know for a fact that Maynard has seen Los Angeles, and he has strong emotions about Los Angeles, as for hating the Iraq war? And obsession with violence on TV? These are things I hear on the radio, and on TV all the time, and I am a very strong liberal democrate, needless to say singing about a topic which is relavent to the world isn't a good song, because if you truely don't care, there is no emotion.
well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

[Birdfleet]

The guy that started this post should actually listen to these songs with an open mind and capture many different meanings. Although any Tool song may have a general moral, if you will, you can still discover countless other connections and truths about yourself, your reality, and the whole fucking reality around you. Don't you see that? Tool is not supossed to be anyone thing...LISTEN TO LATERALUS..RIDE THE SPIRAL .... Tool should continue on whatever path that interests them...Don't tell them what the fuck to do like "Yell more, Be depressing, BE MORE LIKE YOU WERE" WE ALL HAVE CD'S WE KNOW WHAT THEYVE DONE...damn. And don't you understand THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SELL OUT MAN..Have you ever listened to HWaP???? .Just listen to an actual song with out your glasses and let the MUSIC (as in the whole band), speak for itself. Think the song through when your done. Look up the lyrics if you need help. Does it make sense? If it doesnt seem to...THEN THINK OF IT IN A DIFFERENT SENSE (metephorically for example) Try to get SOMETHING out of it!!!!!!! (whether is fucking aggressive or reflective or wtfever you can always get something. It depeneds on what you are focused on, whether you are open minded and focused and a whole lot or narrow minded and focused on aggressive music.) TRY as hard as you can. For gods sake do something. What I love about this band is that the songs THEY write and produce, have the ability to never get old. Or at least they havent for me..Everytime i listen is a new experience..


Edit: Hahaha I just read the post before me by Helen and umm.... will you marry me??;P

[philipg]

once again people talk about how maynard is using a perfect circle melodies in tool songs.
regardless of the fact that its the same guy with the same voice and same music influences.

[opiated]

Hmmm . . . let my mouth breathe out the following flatulence.

Instead of looking at Tool's works as separate albums, imagine all six of them as individual songs on one big EP. "Opiate" and "Salival" are segues similar to songs like "Lipan Conjuring" and "Lost Keys" -- just there to make the transition into another part of the EP easier ("Opiate" is a little more than a segue, though -- it's more like saying "Hello. Before we continue, sit the hell down, shut the fuck up, and listen close to what the fucking hell I'm going tell you.").

Think about it. All of the albums transition to another with certain tracks. "Opiate" previewed the rage of "Undertow", "Flood" previewed the rushing sounds of "Ænima" and Maynard's self-purging, etc. The progression between albums is there, you can tell it.

No doubt, the next album will pick up where "Intension/Right In Two" left off. So, will Tool's next album start out slow and light? It could happen. But, in a recent interview with Guitar World, Adam Jones said he liked how The Melvins would start to drop out in certain songs, get quiet, come back in, then start back again loud as before. I think that's what Tool plans to do next. "10,000 Days" started out pretty heavy and then started to slow down and get quiet as it went along, especially after the transition segue of "Lipan Conjuring." It was almost like "10,000 Days" was two EPs fused together as one (how strange) -- one half pretty heavy, the other half slow and almost serene at certain points.

I think Tool's intensity will come back in on the next album at some point. If the next is their last, I say it could be possible they'll go out the way they went in.

[duncang]

Did you not HEAR Disposition?

[opiated]

Why the hell did I type "Disposition" there?

Fixed.

[duncang]

I wasn't talking to you.

[Thoracic Tergon]

Hello everyone, I feel like posting a few thoughts (after several months of lurking in the shadows).

IMO Tool definitely are less aggressive on this album. Less anger, less creative, "move the hell forward!", spirit. They can bang and scream, but I've felt right from the start that this album is not the Tool I know. RS is not Third Eye, RI2 is not 46&2.

It has been said numerously that Reflection was the "precursor" of this album, but I feel that the word "Reflection" itself is deeply rooted in the structure of this album. "This album mourns" said paraflux in another thread, and I agree with it. Reflection is a passive, 'negative' (reflection as opposed to radiance), female concept. It's the blues album, period. That's what I put into the words "They are no longer as aggressive". So to me it was like a balloon when I want an 100kg weight! I even thought that Tool "betrayed" their ideas and got watered down. Then I realized the proper/balanced attitude and now I accept this album with respect and appreciation (though not with joy or amazement).

Of course one has to agree with the inevitable facts that any artist is only then a real artist when is himself and doesn't just want to satisfy the needs of the crowd, that a band that doesn't change is dead, and that Tool in their evolution can't satisfy everyone (like 10k days hasn't satisfied me). I've accepted the idea that Tool aren't my "dream/perfect band" long ago. Of course one needs to only extract the things he/she wants and ignore the rest. Someone likes 10k days, and I like Lateralus and AEnima, but Tool's only objective is just to be themselves.

However I completely reject the arguments that Tool has "matured" like everyone else does. Where is it written that people must grow old? Why should people become more passive/watered down/whiny/teary/housewify/etc. with age? The new album isn't mature, it's reflective and mournful, it is a critical look back at the past work (hence all the weaved in pieces from older works), but there's nothing "evolved" or "mature" about it. It's a step in their creative ladder, why don't you think that the next one won't be different? Who said that their next album won't be a real kick in the teeth? I hope that Tool are of those people who are forever young. I am surely expecting new and different sides of Tool to experience in their future career... and if not, well that's just their decision: nothing to be sad about, there's plenty of other, positive/aggressive music around, and life goes on.

Hope that wasn't too long,
War.

[opiated]

I wasn't talking to you.

Neither was I. "Disposition" is a bit more than a segue, like I originally said before the edit. Your post did, however, make me notice my error.

[ufopancakes]

Hello everyone, I feel like posting a few thoughts (after several months of lurking in the shadows).

IMO Tool definitely are less aggressive on this album. Less anger, less creative, "move the hell forward!", spirit. They can bang and scream, but I've felt right from the start that this album is not the Tool I know. RS is not Third Eye, RI2 is not 46&2.

It has been said numerously that Reflection was the "precursor" of this album, but I feel that the word "Reflection" itself is deeply rooted in the structure of this album. "This album mourns" said paraflux in another thread, and I agree with it. Reflection is a passive, 'negative' (reflection as opposed to radiance), female concept. It's the blues album, period. That's what I put into the words "They are no longer as aggressive". So to me it was like a balloon when I want an 100kg weight! I even thought that Tool "betrayed" their ideas and got watered down. Then I realized the proper/balanced attitude and now I accept this album with respect and appreciation (though not with joy or amazement).

Of course one has to agree with the inevitable facts that any artist is only then a real artist when is himself and doesn't just want to satisfy the needs of the crowd, that a band that doesn't change is dead, and that Tool in their evolution can't satisfy everyone (like 10k days hasn't satisfied me). I've accepted the idea that Tool aren't my "dream/perfect band" long ago. Of course one needs to only extract the things he/she wants and ignore the rest. Someone likes 10k days, and I like Lateralus and AEnima, but Tool's only objective is just to be themselves.

However I completely reject the arguments that Tool has "matured" like everyone else does. Where is it written that people must grow old? Why should people become more passive/watered down/whiny/teary/housewify/etc. with age? The new album isn't mature, it's reflective and mournful, it is a critical look back at the past work (hence all the weaved in pieces from older works), but there's nothing "evolved" or "mature" about it. It's a step in their creative ladder, why don't you think that the next one won't be different? Who said that their next album won't be a real kick in the teeth? I hope that Tool are of those people who are forever young. I am surely expecting new and different sides of Tool to experience in their future career... and if not, well that's just their decision: nothing to be sad about, there's plenty of other, positive/aggressive music around, and life goes on.

Hope that wasn't too long,
War.


I think it is a safe bet that this person is not a musician. Any musician that is a fan of tool can clearly see that thier creativity is at its best.

[mr. nikki jensen]

I think it is a safe bet that this person is not a musician. Any musician that is a fan of tool can clearly see that thier creativity is at its best.

fact

[rintoot]

fact

i agree, i wish they would go in the direction of DRT and Intension, make a whole Ambient album in their own way, I think they could do it better than most

[Solaris]

EXACTLY...I just got done posting a message about how it is crazy that people still say Tool is a metal band???? They are about the farthest thing from that, they are TOOL an ever evolving, learning force, creating a gateway to a positive moment in the lives of all who choose to allow it to.

Will you say that metal bands don't evolve their sound? Tool IS a metal band a PROGRESSIVE metal band, like Opeth, Meshuggah, Mastodon or Dream Theater. Well, they're not as agressive as those bands, but they are still a metal band. Tool is the most creative band of the most intelligent music genre ever: METAL. Metal bands are no stupid, uncreative dumbfucks (Well, most of them. Nu Metal artists are stupid, uncreative dumbfucks.). Metal isn't all negative. Although I don't agree that Tool is no longer agressive enough (They are still agressive, Dave. Face it, mostly no one agrees with you.), I have to agree with dracomorag: Metal is the only acceptable genre, and Tool is a part of it.

[Aunt Acid]

I think it is a safe bet that this person is not a musician. Any musician that is a fan of tool can clearly see that thier creativity is at its best.

Agreed.

If you want agression, go listen to Ticks and Leeches. I hope that's the sound you have in mind... and I also hope you choke...

[jevons]

Tool wins. yay tool.



Perhaps APC was used to garner a more diverse audience, and 10,000 Days is an attempt to broaden their message, if they have one.