Transcending this world?

[fire engine]

The way I see Lateralus, at the beginning of the song with "black and white are all I see in my infancy" that represents someone with a mind in it's "infant" stage, where it simply accepts what it see and doesn't really analyze it, thus it is in black and white.

"red and yellow then came to me...", the person starts to analyze more and more, he wants to "push the envelope and watch it bend"

As he continues to think and analyze the world around him, he realizes that he can seperate his body from his mind, and leave behind this body, and simply become his mind, and leave all the worldly opportunities behind.

His mind, then, is free to transcend this world, thus reaching up and reaching out for all that is beyond. Doing so, he is doing what he says at the end, "spiral out, keep going".

[Thrakandor]

The way I see Lateralus, at the beginning of the song with "black and white are all I see in my infancy" that represents someone with a mind in it's "infant" stage, where it simply accepts what it see and doesn't really analyze it, thus it is in black and white.

"red and yellow then came to me...", the person starts to analyze more and more, he wants to "push the envelope and watch it bend"

As he continues to think and analyze the world around him, he realizes that he can seperate his body from his mind, and leave behind this body, and simply become his mind, and leave all the worldly opportunities behind.

His mind, then, is free to transcend this world, thus reaching up and reaching out for all that is beyond. Doing so, he is doing what he says at the end, "spiral out, keep going".
I definitely think you're on the right track re: the symbolism of the colours.

However, Maynard seems to be painting the separation of the body and the mind in a negative light. Lateralus seems to be about learning to see things as they are, and then seizing what you may from them. Over-thinking, over-analyzing can cripple this - he says it withers our intuitions and we 'leave opportunities behind' as a result.

Your interpretation of it - that he is speaking of leaving worldly opportunities for spiritual ones - is very interesting, though. I hadn't thought of that.

[Inconsequential]

Keep this in mind when reading.
The only animals which feel unfulfilled desires, the only animals that become angry or depressed or repressed are DOMESTICATED animals. As far as I can know, the wild spirit does NOT lead the wild entity astray. We, are domesticated animals, luckily... we have an ability to step outside of this...........i hope....


Over the years as I've listened to this song many different things have come to my mind, at first when I was 14 I simply recognized a song about the progression of a human to a glorious death which caused the soul to exit the body (transcend) and continue within another realm of existence...
But now as the view has shifted many times as I continue to relate personal experiences to maynards music I see lateralus as a defining song for the modernization fo the human brain. 16 now, I see something more subtle.

In the beginning he says
As below
So above and beyond
I imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason

I understand this that: In my youth i hypothesize/imagine of what is beyond my human limitations and as I am happy to talk of this with others (socialize what i think as wonderful thoughts) i am told by the majority that "this and that" is unreasonable (mass insanity).

But as a child i still imagine and i challenge myself i desire to "push the envelope" and it here, bends which i see a wonderful in that when i do push my limitations i notice that they can be bent and broken etc... moving on.

Feed my will to feel this moment (to listen to your heart/soul/intuition/spirit) urging me to cross the line (bend the envelope as in youth) ...embrace the random ...embrace whatever may come (LISTEN TO SPIRIT) Keep this in mind to consider the lyrics ::::

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human. :::::
The ability to reconnect to the force of life and our very own intuition, and to listen to this actively is awe-inspiring and in a way out of body. We can realize these divine states of existence and still be human.

And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going...

Spiralling out could refer to "touching back down to earth" and continuing life enlightened enough to listen to our whims and intuition Or to be forever enlightened beyond our normal human self and able to project this into everything new we encounter as we progress through whats left of our human life, and through to the divine... personally i feel its the later.


And the OVER THNKING OVER ANALYSING SEPERATES THE BODY FROM THE MIND... I understand this as so many things which we bring into further "light" as we get older and we try to put "reasonability" to our intuitive perceptions... such as trying to prove a theory. Such as the rigors of ever changing science. These things can be considered wasteful and seperate our spirit from our mind and dulls our intuition.

I have to stop here... tell me your thoughts.

[fire engine]

["However, Maynard seems to be painting the separation of the body and the mind in a negative light."]
Maybe but I don’t see it that way, at least in my own life. From my own experiences, transcending this world would be a good thing.

[“Over-thinking, over-analyzing can cripple this - he says it withers our intuitions and we 'leave opportunities behind' as a result. “]
But one of Maynard’s main themes in thinking for ourselves and making our own decisions. How can we do this if we don’t think or analyze what we’re doing? If we don’t think and don’t analyze the things going on around us won’t we simply end up being a sheep to those controlling us, leaving us “deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow”?

[“Keep this in mind when reading. The only animals which feel unfulfilled desires, the only animals that become angry or depressed or repressed are DOMESTICATED animals. As far as I can know, the wild spirit does NOT lead the wild entity astray. We, are domesticated animals, luckily... we have an ability to step outside of this...........i hope.... “]
Domesticated animals have desires and feelings because after centuries of being companions to humans, they have become more like humans. They’ve become more like something that was created in God’s image. Are you saying that we should stop being humans and start being more like animals, which have no feeling or desire at all to reach up and out? Or are you saying that we should stop being “like humans” or a mere shadow of what we‘re capable of as humans, and become worthy humans in our own right and begin feeling and reaching up and out? I would disagree sharply with the former, and see where you are coming from with the latter.


[“…such as trying to prove a theory. Such as the rigors of ever changing science. These things can be considered wasteful and separate our spirit from our mind and dulls our intuition.”]
Are you saying that knowledge is a bad thing? It seems to me when he says “Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind,” that he’s purposely withering his intuition, leaving the opportunities of the world behind in search of a higher truth. It also does no good to proceed onward believing in things or theories that have no proof behind them. It seems as if he’s searching for that divine spiral; his intuition is withered and he’s searching for pure truth, somewhere no one’s really been before.

Just some thoughts, I don’t really think that there’s any right or wrong way to interpret lyrics, especially Maynard’s.

[Inconsequential]

I apologize for the lengthy post, please take the time to endure through the read.

<< Are you saying that we should stop being humans and start being more like animals, which have no feeling or desire at all to reach up and out? >>

Let me elaborate of the "domestication" of humans.
I mean that we complicate our minds with lots of knowledge that isnt really necessary. We put ourselves through alot of things that are... unnatural. All im saying is that we should simplify, learn to listen to our instincts. You obviously believe in a guiding force/god to say that humans are in "his" image... this is reasonable.

I believe that in trying to perceive the past and future we are losing the ability to experice a moment-exquisite (the present).

Trying to perceive the past and future relative to "Over-thinking Over-analyzing" Do you see where Seperating mind and body fits in here?

So, too much logic (OVER-analyzing) and too much hypothesi (OVER-thinking) seperates our ability to naturally perceive a situation and (Body:Present-Feels) intuitively react (mind:Spirit-Will.)

<<Are you saying that knowledge is a bad thing? >>
yes:
I am saying that TOO MUCH knowledge is a bad thing. To discuss what too much is... thats another thread, heh. Think of all the things in school that you've learned, did any of them just make things feel complicated? Have you ever had to PUT EFFORT INTO trying to apply them to a normal situation. This is a negative thing.

<<It seems to me when he says “Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind,” that he’s purposely withering his intuition, leaving the opportunities of the world behind in search of a higher truth.>>
I think that he is cleary saying that Over-thinking and Over-analyzing seperate his mind and body and this in turn is causing him to lose the ability to use his intuition and this also causes him to miss worthwhile opportunities... the natural progression of the song leads me to believe this.

So: He immediately follows that line stating "feed my will (mind) to feel (body) this moment (present) drawing way outside the lines (drawing way outside the lines of what his knowledge and all that which tells him his intuition is wrong, this is the "lines" which feeling a the very present moment intuitively can allow you to "draw outside" of....

Im losing myself again... Questions please.

[Inconsequential]

Oh and... yes I dont believe that we can define a clear right and wrong way to interpret this so if I seem to pushing "the way i see it" a little hard, im merely struggling for the ways in which we DO interpret it to be understood both ways you know?
Also if you believe in any sort of guiding/mysterious force or divine universe or god... wouldnt you think that listening to the way we naturally can perceive the present instantly would be a great asset to following a divine path (... listen to our intuition)
AND FOLLOWING OUR WILL AND WHIM: WE MAY JUST GO WHERE NO ONES BEEN
its not that this is a place where no man has bodly gone before (heh) its just that, no normal human can SPIRAL out ijn this manner, while we remain human, after "spiralling out" which to me is ultimately seeing our ability to go one following divine intuition we are enlightened..
you could also consider this poem by timothy leary, i think it is relative:::::
(((IF you arent familiar with "TAO" go to www.sacred-texts.com and browse in the "TAOISM" section))))
Before Heaven and Earth
There was something
nebulous....
Tranquil....effortless

Permeating universally
Never tiring
Revolving Soundless
Fusion without mate

It may be regarded as the mother

of all organic forms


Its name is not known nor its language
But it is called the name TAO

The ancient sages to the best of their ability

inventing a description called it "great"


The great TAO

"Great" means-in harmony
In harmony means-tuned in
Tuned in means....going far
Going far means....return
To the harmony

Thus-there are four greatnesses....

The TAO is great


The coil of life is great


The body is great

And man is also designed in this image to be great

There are in existence four great notes
And man is made to be one thereof

Man places himself in harmony with his body
His body tunes itself to the slow unfolding of life
Life flows in harmony with the TAO

Out here you will know that it
all proceeds at the natural tempo

In tune

[x7 Lateralus 7x]

what it think this song is about is simply, overthinking, over analyzing. i think he's talking about taking chances, how overthinking, overanalyzing separates the body from the mind, when ur brain tells u to do something, but u dont have the guts to do so, because of this u miss important opportunities.

"feed my will to feel this moment, URGING me to cross the line"
what maynard is probably talking about isnt some crazy stunt, maybe he wants to make some kind of a difference, by being different.

"reaching out to embrace the random, reaching out to embrace whatever may come"

so he must have messed up before, and he's gonna make sure that he doesnt miss those opportunities, when he must take action.

"i embrace my desire to...feel the rhythm to...feel connected...enough to step aside and...weep like a widow to....feel inspired to... fathom the power to.... witness the beauty to...bathe in the fountain. to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human."

what he mentions in that paragraph basically covers any situation or opportunity there is in life. idk just my thoughts...just basically missing out on life.

[Inconsequential]

Yes. Those are some good thoughts. "Over-thinking/Over-analyzing." Perhaps this song is meant to have a simpler meaning than I have presented.

[Triangular_Vision]

I definitely think you're on the right track re: the symbolism of the colours.

However, Maynard seems to be painting the separation of the body and the mind in a negative light. Lateralus seems to be about learning to see things as they are, and then seizing what you may from them. Over-thinking, over-analyzing can cripple this - he says it withers our intuitions and we 'leave opportunities behind' as a result.

Your interpretation of it - that he is speaking of leaving worldly opportunities for spiritual ones - is very interesting, though. I hadn't thought of that.

I disagree that maynard is "painting the separation of the body and the mind in a negative light" 1) because the rest of his work is in favor of this:

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

here he expresses his pure love and desire for spirituality.

2) a deeper evaluation of:

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Shows that if you OVER analyze and OVER think everything all of the time, you spread yourslef too thin to grasp the bigger picture because you are always trying to zoom into the details missing the opportunities and doorways while inspecting and inch of the wall (metaphorically).

plus he straight up says, i must feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines. And everyone knows drawing outside the lines relates to Projection and pushing the envelope while watching it bend to find out how and continue the process... if that makes any sense.

[Triangular_Vision]

Oh and... yes I dont believe that we can define a clear right and wrong way to interpret this so if I seem to pushing "the way i see it" a little hard, im merely struggling for the ways in which we DO interpret it to be understood both ways you know?
Also if you believe in any sort of guiding/mysterious force or divine universe or god... wouldnt you think that listening to the way we naturally can perceive the present instantly would be a great asset to following a divine path (... listen to our intuition)
AND FOLLOWING OUR WILL AND WHIM: WE MAY JUST GO WHERE NO ONES BEEN
its not that this is a place where no man has bodly gone before (heh) its just that, no normal human can SPIRAL out ijn this manner, while we remain human, after "spiralling out" which to me is ultimately seeing our ability to go one following divine intuition we are enlightened..
you could also consider this poem by timothy leary, i think it is relative:::::
(((IF you arent familiar with "TAO" go to www.sacred-texts.com and browse in the "TAOISM" section))))
Before Heaven and Earth
There was something
nebulous....
Tranquil....effortless

Permeating universally
Never tiring
Revolving Soundless
Fusion without mate

It may be regarded as the mother

of all organic forms


Its name is not known nor its language
But it is called the name TAO

The ancient sages to the best of their ability

inventing a description called it "great"


The great TAO

"Great" means-in harmony
In harmony means-tuned in
Tuned in means....going far
Going far means....return
To the harmony

Thus-there are four greatnesses....

The TAO is great


The coil of life is great


The body is great

And man is also designed in this image to be great

There are in existence four great notes
And man is made to be one thereof

Man places himself in harmony with his body
His body tunes itself to the slow unfolding of life
Life flows in harmony with the TAO

Out here you will know that it
all proceeds at the natural tempo

In tune

I appologize but i noticed one error in your post. THe song goes, "And following out will and WIND, we may just go where no-ones been, we'll ride the spiral till the end, and may just go where no-ones been, spiral out...."

The WIND relates to and Astral Phenomena called "Astral Wind." This is a mystical force that resembles wind in the astral dimensions that seems to randomly lift a projector (projected double, mirror image, spirit, etc.) into a higher level, dimension, realm, etc. This means combined with Astral Wind and human will to grow and evolove (spiral out[relating to the spiral shape of the human DNA and the evolution of it [46 and 2]) we will eventually make it to wherever it is that we are going. Will is the only force used to travel move and create in the astral dimensions, so this easilly explains this from that point of view.

[Unhuman Elactic]

My take, is that on the highest layer (ie: not deep)

Is that possibly Maynard is trying to get us to understand and embrace music, he is asking you to follow him to understand deeper and greater things from music. And if you stay with them, they may just take you where no one's been...

Either that, or they're gonna take us all to hell...

[torth]

I'm going to have to go with Inconsequential on this one and say that this song negatively portrays overthinking and overanalyzing. Not only do we miss out on present opportunities from trying to figure everything out, but we also miss out on the further knowledge we would have gained from those happenings. It's obvious everything we learn isn't from school; the majority comes from life experiences. If you think about a subject too much, you will inevitably stretch the meaning too far and draw too many (and sometimes false) conclusions or theories out of it.

For a very simplistic example: Your boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you. You get upset. You spend time alone thinking and thinking about what went wrong, analyze both parties flaws, blah blah, and end up drawing generalizations about the opposite sex and worrying too much about the way you act and how the next partner will act. This time not only causes you to miss out on what new experiences you could be having (both concerning the opposite sex and anything in general) but also may result in unnecessary resistance to the next relationship.

[fire engine]

[QUOTE=torth]I'm going to have to go with Inconsequential on this one and say that this song negatively portrays overthinking and overanalyzing. [QUOTE]

I'm not going to lose sleep if you disagree with me and what I believe about this song, but don't forget to at least consider other alternatives to the things that you already believe. After all, you may just go where no one's been.

[x7 Lateralus 7x]

haha most of u just think too hard, u ever get the feeling to where everyone is pressuring u to do something, but u just cant do it becuz u know the consequences? maynard missed out on lots of things, but so have many other ppl, becuz we know the consequences, and although we may have missed out, it makes us more wiser in a way, makes us think more. ride the spiral ur own way w/ ur knowledge and discover new things and possibilities.

btw, im having a little problem, i've been listening to lateralus and aenema 24/7, songs r getting old, its been about 6 months now, SOMEONE GIVE ME GOOOOOOD SONGS TO LISTEN TO! plz O.o

[torth]

fire engine: "I'm not going to lose sleep if you disagree with me and what I believe about this song, but don't forget to at least consider other alternatives to the things that you already believe. After all, you may just go where no one's been."

Thanks for the tip... next time, think more before you make unnecessarily haughty comments about my beliefs and your sleeping patterns. My personal interpretation of this song was decided before I read this post. Some of these predetermined ideas were similar to inconsequential's. (Note: when I say predetermined, I'm not implying that my beliefs won't ever change or that I don't take other's thoughts into consideration) I simply started off my post saying I agreed with him/her to easily show which angle of the argument I was taking. I am sorry you concentrated too much on the first ten words (overanalyzing...pulling meaning out of something that means nothing..) because if you paid attention to the rest, you would see that my ideas differed from his. I quite often consider other alternatives than my own beliefs, and I never addressed you or said your opinion was wrong.. In fact, I agree with the color symbolism and with some of your other opinions, but decided to post what I thought (and, hey, maybe it made someone consider an alternative to his/her beliefs). I'm sorry if you took my post to be a personal attack at you; I was mostly trying to add another opinion because I thought the post was interesting. This reply isn't meant to be catty, I just think your comment was a little unjust.

[torth]

haha most of u just think too hard, u ever get the feeling to where everyone is pressuring u to do something, but u just cant do it becuz u know the consequences? maynard missed out on lots of things, but so have many other ppl, becuz we know the consequences, and although we may have missed out, it makes us more wiser in a way, makes us think more. ride the spiral ur own way w/ ur knowledge and discover new things and possibilities.

btw, im having a little problem, i've been listening to lateralus and aenema 24/7, songs r getting old, its been about 6 months now, SOMEONE GIVE ME GOOOOOOD SONGS TO LISTEN TO! plz O.o

Have you gotten the newest perfect circle yet? The cd is amazing and the songs don't really get old, either.

[x7 Lateralus 7x]

hmmm.....apc, im done w/ the 13th step, is 3 libras the newest? i dont keep up w/ the times.

[fire engine]

I do apologize for seeming unjust, but you can see where I may be a little frustrated when I make a post about "overthinking, overanalyzing seperates the body from the mind" being a good thing, then people telling me that I am wrong.

[PilotDude83]

It is simple. Everything in moderation. Over- or under-anything is negative. The lyrics aren't thinking and analyzing, they emphasize the "over." When we become obcessed with anything we are missing so many good things that we don't see. We aren't living in the moment.

Before I posted I decided to over-analyze the song. OOPS! I got the least energetic experience out of the song I ever have. When I feel the rythm of the song and truly become connected I can see so many different facits of the song. The reason behind this is because I am not trying to see them, I am just seeing them as they come. When I am in the flow of the song it has given me wonderful experiences. (Including sometimes non-sexual, energetic orgasms.)

Stop trying to find the meaning behind the songs and let the meaning find you. From my own experience it will be more harmonious with your being. In addition, everytime I listen to the song I start with a blank slate about what it means, and everytime it means something different. Similarities are still there, but my mood changes how the energy of the song resonates with me.

Keep an open mind and engauge the flow.

[torth]

It's alright; I can definitely understand your frustration.