Look... This is what Tool WANTS.. people mindlessly rambling thoughts that make no coherent sense whatsoever... Simply so they can mock you in concert... There's nothing wrong with having an interpretation of a song, but Snoop Dogg? Give me a frickin break, people!
Anyway, this is what I think Tool put Useful Idiot on the CD for --
I took AEnima to a friends house and let him hear it, and when we got to Useful Idiot, he thought his CD player had broken... (moron... ) But anyway. I let him freak out for a second and right as he was about to turn off his CD player, 46 and 2 came on.
Tool is mocking the people like that.
In other words, they are saying "Well, you're stupid, but we got your money anyway!" hence the name, Useful Idiot...
Sorry about the rant, and I can't wait to see your reactions to this post.
though i don't think that that is ALL of the meaning- i do thnk that you're touching on something very important here.. i think it's paramount to keep in mind that a song can have many simultaneous meanings. smart boy.. or.. girl..
__________________ I opened my third nostril when i smelled a huge container filled with boiling hazelnut coffee. thanks chris.
Actually, I am a 15 year old male.
Tool loves to mock people... Thats what they do. The people who listen to their music should look at it as if Tool IS mocking them for something. It gives you an entirely new respect, I promise.
Open your mind...
you're making it sound like tool are a bunch of dicks and think they are better than everyone because all they do is mock people. why would they want to mock people for no reason? how are they mocking them in this track. the only people that they really mock are obnoxious fans. please be a little more specific when you say all tool does is mock people. i think they go a little deeper than that anyway.
Useful idiot sounds like something being played backwards. i don't know what the significance of the song is but maybe it doesn't have one at all. but i did hear somewhere that it's suppose to sound like the end of a record. the track also seems to fit perfectly with 46&2 so maybe there is a correlation between the two.
Look at wha Tool has become...
No the don't mock people anyMORE, but... look at Their Early stuff - Jerk-Off, Opiate, Gaping Lotus Exerience, Swamp Song... All of those songs are making a mockery of some bad part of society in their eyes... AEnima had Hooker With a Penis, and I think Useful Idiot... Lateralus really has nothing like that.
Maybe it just shows Tool's growth over the years?
Don't get me wrong though, I love Tool more than I love my mom. (Sad, huh?)
I'd like to point out that on the vinyl version of Ænima, Useful Idiot comes right at the end of side one. So, it sounds like the album reached the end of the track, and started to hit the label, and when you flip the album over, you get 46 & 2, and a LOT of people thought that they got screwed out of a song. If that's not mocking someone, I don't know what is.
Thanks for agreeing.. I think that Tool is a very funny band, despite their EXTREMELY serious side. Everyone has a sense of humor... just not yours necessarily.
but to say that useful idiot is just a funny track is over simplifying it. i personally think that by chalking it up to some twisted sense of humore is a cop out- and a bad one at that. i agree that it might have a certain edge of funny, but almost all good insight does.
__________________ I opened my third nostril when i smelled a huge container filled with boiling hazelnut coffee. thanks chris.
i think useful idiot served two purposes - 1) to make it look like there were more new songs on Aenima, and 2) to try and round out the 80 minutes allowed on a cd
i think its about the mindless self indulgence and idiot repitition of the fine folks who continue to breath life into any kind of sick and perverse system. it has to do with people you can use and people who get used and how they(risking a generilization) never wake up out of that life and how if that life made a sound and if their thoughts made a sound this would be it. its really a sad and empty way to live for the useful idiot but if your the one doing the using they can be very helpful in secureing your own interestts. so don't smile, just laugh
I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the term "Useful Idiot" was used by the Stalinist administration in the U.S.S.R. to refer to someone who would swallow and then work to parrot and uphold the prevailing ideology to all those around them. Hence being useful and idiotic. I personally don't think that mocking people is all that Tool do but when you consider that the Soviet government was obviously mocking as well as classifying those that were useful to them, you could read in some kind of comment on the relationship between Tool and their fans. Or something to do with the church. Or MTV and popular culture. You know, the usual bogeymen of this fascinating and wonderful community at TDN. :)
The scratching record noise is easily linked to this idea of the hapless young Communist zealot eagerly spouting the beliefs and misinformation fed to him/her.
Originally posted by paper_head Or this song could only be a pointless filler to add length and more tracks to the album. Just a thought.
bingo! i thing alot of the non-songs on this CD are there for that reson also if you read the FAQ you'll find out that the sound is of a record that has reached its end, fearther proveg the thorey of Tool fucking with us... if you have the recoed anyway....
Of course, randomly mocking people is always an alternative, but in the good tradition of sharing stupid thoughts, I'd like to share mine. The first thing that i thought when i heard that..er..song (alright, not that first, but you get the point) was that it obviously depicts how a stupid annoying jerk you can use for your purposes becomes more and more and more and more annoying and disturbing and at the end you just drop him be. Hence the evergrowing crescendo of the noise. To tell the truth, I'm quite amazed no one got that idea..
__________________ You'll forgive me if I do not naively devour every scrap of information you toss me
Originally posted by Odradek79 i think its about the mindless self indulgence and idiot repitition of ...
idiot repetition is rite thats 4 sure. and also the getting louder and louder meaning that there are always bigger louder idiots repeating things others have already done/said and just proving themselves bigger idiots. im supprised how many idiots there actually are!
This almost seems like an attack at the music we buy and how thoughtlessly we buy it. Think about it this way you bought a song that required no talent and that has no real redeeming qualities. There is so much bad music out there and people buy it for the name. This song tells us not to just buy off a name because sometimes you get shit.
Maybe its about all us useful idiots (the followers) analyzing a minute of scratchy noise, and talking back and forth on it, just like the rest of the album,
Originally posted by Undertolerance Have you ever noticed that with this song, by the time that most people get annoyed with it, its over? =):
Then when 46 & 2 comes on your just so happy that it's over that it actually improves the beginning of 46 & 2 making it usefull, there by making it a usefull idiot!
Originally posted by Systolic Look... This is what Tool WANTS.. people mindlessly rambling thoughts that make no coherent sense whatsoever... Simply so they can mock you in concert... There's nothing wrong with having an interpretation of a song, but Snoop Dogg? Give me a frickin break, people!
Anyway, this is what I think Tool put Useful Idiot on the CD for --
I took AEnima to a friends house and let him hear it, and when we got to Useful Idiot, he thought his CD player had broken... (moron... ) But anyway. I let him freak out for a second and right as he was about to turn off his CD player, 46 and 2 came on.
Tool is mocking the people like that.
In other words, they are saying "Well, you're stupid, but we got your money anyway!" hence the name, Useful Idiot...
Sorry about the rant, and I can't wait to see your reactions to this post.
I agree with the idea of Useful Idiot making 46&2 sound better and I hate the idea of Tool mocking us. Their philosophy is that they're on the same level as everyone else so they don't act condescending or arrogant. Or perhaps it's to take up space, thus making it a useful idiot. Damn, that works on so many different levels...
__________________ Nine out of ten voices in my head think I'm perfectly sane.
maybe tool are all stalinists and desire to murder dissenters and this little track contains subliminal messages to brainwash us all until they have enough of us, then they'll give us another subliminal message in another album to trigger the latent subconscious content given to us by useful idiot, and we'll go into a mad rage and kill everyone who doesn't like tool.
or maybe the track got onto a tape or something by accident when they were making the vinyl and they yelled at whoever was responsible for it, calling him an idiot, and then maybe someone spoke up and said, hey, it sounds pretty good actually, it could be useful...
maybe it magically appeared on all the albums complete with it's own track number and song title, and no one knows how it got there, not even the band.
Anyway, this is what I think Tool put Useful Idiot on the CD for --
I took AEnima to a friends house and let him hear it, and when we got to Useful Idiot, he thought his CD player had broken... (moron... ) But anyway. I let him freak out for a second and right as he was about to turn off his CD player, 46 and 2 came on.
Tool is mocking the people like that.
oh my goodness, how is he a moron, gee, if i heard noises coming from my cd player and i didn't know any better, i'd just sit there and do nothing. he's not a moron at all, if my car started making a funny noise and i checked it, would i be a moron, i know it is a sound of a record and cd's don't make that noise, but he may not know this, exactly how this makes him a moron is beside me, plus thats not a nice way to talk about your friend ;)
__________________ Listen to the whole thing not just the words
Location: somewhere I don't wanna be...otherwise known as Indianapolis
Posts: 713
Bincount™: 5
Okay, my friend and I came up with this interpretation one night a few years ago with the help of our mutual friend Cannabis.
I definitely feel that this track goes in tandem w/ 46+2 because there is only one other time on the album that one track ends and the other begins without a pause of silence in between. That of course would be Intermission/jimmy (if you don't know why those two songs are related then you need to beat yourself in the head repeatedly).
Assume for a moment that the phrase is taken from the Soviet origin. Think about what they meant when they used this phrase. Those people in our societies who don't ever think for themselves or question anything; just mindlessly seeking out their place in the system, perfectly happy in a drone like existence as a cog in the Machine. They are useful to the Machine, but easily expendable. And they are EVERYWHERE!
I believe that this noise symbolizes the current state of affairs on our planet. As it crescendos, think of the exponential population growth we are experiencing. Some estimates have projected 10 billion people by the year 2010. Also think about what the sound really (probably) is; the sound a record makes when it has gotten to the end of all it can do and is now endlessly
repeating it's cycle going 'round and 'round with out ever getting anywhere. All the record can do is wait for some outside force to effect it. I think this is a very appropriate metaphor for the time we live in. One MAJOR hindrance to our collective spiritual growth as a species is that most people just don't give a shit and are perfectly content to play the role assigned to them without ever stopping to appreciate the things that make life worth living.
Consumerism spreads like a virus, the faces of politicians change but the rhetoric never does, a thousand more fools are born every day, 'round and 'round recycling the past without ever processing it, getting louder and louder but never amounting to more than noise.... until we break through (begin 46+2).
I like this interpretation so much that I actually listen to this track now instead of skipping over it. Let me know what you guys think.
Last edited by philosophomore; 07-26-2003 at 04:49 PM..
i think its about the mindless self indulgence and idiot repitition of the fine folks who continue to breath life into any kind of sick and perverse system. it has to do with people you can use and people who get used and how they(risking a generilization) never wake up out of that life and how if that life made a sound and if their thoughts made a sound this would be it. its really a sad and empty way to live for the useful idiot but if your the one doing the using they can be very helpful in secureing your own interestts. so don't smile, just laugh
fucken great mate
there is a system, there is the ONE being and the thing is, which one is using the other...no-ones really sure but we must stay in the loop because the fucken system says.. fucken so.
but if egos are relinqueshed maybe the ONE can provide data into the next stargate......give up the fight, let my brother be...
if you knew this person he can give you history on everything to this present date including the matrix and the terminator 3
everthing is just the same to the ONE but he holds his head high...
thank you, for my every breath i take
for you are a true soldier
hit the fuckers again and again
a bit off the track i know but tool has opened me up to a new world dream/reality which is why i am now content with just being...angst has gone at last.
this guy makes it all worth it lol, any of you get bored trying to analyse tool lyrics, give this guy a shot, a free carton of beer to the first person to tell me what he is talking about :-)
I believe that the Soviet/Stalinist outlook is best for this song because Tool is always saying that you should think for yourself. Look how Soviet Russia ended up, it collapsed, just like everything else does when people don't think for themselves. Isn't it interesting that all the people on this opinion page seem to have their own opinions, which makes this part of the page actually stay working, if everyone agreed to the same opinion, or if everyone just had the same opinion to begin with, what would be the point of this page. It would be worthless and then it would be closed down. Useful Idiot is the perfect song that screams THINK FOR YOURSELF.
l also think that this song goes well where it's put...it makes H. and 46 & 2 sound more combined...which is cool.
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
to me, it sounds like a worm or a snake, just crawling along.
"i've been crawling on my belly..."
it gets closer and closer, louder and louder, until it hits something.
46&2.
if you think about the origins/definition of the term mixed with the ideas of the following song, or even the whole album, a greater concept unfolds...
__________________ "A humanist is anyone who rejects the attempt to describe or account for man wholly on the basis of physics, chemistry or animal behaviour." ~Joseph R. Krutch
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Posted by philosophomore - 07-26-2003 at 08:41 PM
"Okay, my friend and I came up with this interpretation one night a few years ago with the help of our mutual friend Cannabis.
I definitely feel that this track goes in tandem w/ 46+2 because there is only one other time on the album that one track ends and the other begins without a pause of silence in between. That of course would be Intermission/jimmy (if you don't know why those two songs are related then you need to beat yourself in the head repeatedly).
Assume for a moment that the phrase is taken from the Soviet origin. Think about what they meant when they used this phrase. Those people in our societies who don't ever think for themselves or question anything; just mindlessly seeking out their place in the system, perfectly happy in a drone like existence as a cog in the Machine. They are useful to the Machine, but easily expendable. And they are EVERYWHERE!
I believe that this noise symbolizes the current state of affairs on our planet. As it crescendos, think of the exponential population growth we are experiencing. Some estimates have projected 10 billion people by the year 2010. Also think about what the sound really (probably) is; the sound a record makes when it has gotten to the end of all it can do and is now endlessly
repeating it's cycle going 'round and 'round with out ever getting anywhere. All the record can do is wait for some outside force to effect it. I think this is a very appropriate metaphor for the time we live in. One MAJOR hindrance to our collective spiritual growth as a species is that most people just don't give a shit and are perfectly content to play the role assigned to them without ever stopping to appreciate the things that make life worth living.
Consumerism spreads like a virus, the faces of politicians change but the rhetoric never does, a thousand more fools are born every day, 'round and 'round recycling the past without ever processing it, getting louder and louder but never amounting to more than noise.... until we break through (begin 46+2).
I like this interpretation so much that I actually listen to this track now instead of skipping over it. Let me know what you guys think."
although it's not the way i would phrase it, this is an excellent objective interpretation. perhaps, on a larger album concept not so literally defined by the song's name, the crawling (snake?) sound has something to do with the song H. after all, the crawling sound does come out of the end of the song and continues into track four. food for thought...
MJI
__________________ For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel, looking, looking, breathlessly. - don Juan
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Ah, much better now. Thank you for clearing it up.
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Look... This is what Tool WANTS.. people mindlessly rambling thoughts that make no coherent sense whatsoever... Simply so they can mock you in concert... There's nothing wrong with having an interpretation of a song, but Snoop Dogg? Give me a frickin break, people!
Anyway, this is what I think Tool put Useful Idiot on the CD for --
I took AEnima to a friends house and let him hear it, and when we got to Useful Idiot, he thought his CD player had broken... (moron... ) But anyway. I let him freak out for a second and right as he was about to turn off his CD player, 46 and 2 came on.
Tool is mocking the people like that.
In other words, they are saying "Well, you're stupid, but we got your money anyway!" hence the name, Useful Idiot...
Sorry about the rant, and I can't wait to see your reactions to this post.
Who the fuck cares?
"Thats what they want!" Well then we're obviously giving them what they want. They give us what we want, by making more albums.
Anyone who actually thinks that the sound isn't purposely put there and really does sound like the end of a vinyl, or thinks their cd player is broken is an idiot anyways. So who cares. Get over yourself. You're in no way superior to anyone just because you've "seen the light" and stopped looking for meaning in shit.
HE LIVES INSIDE MY MOUTH
AND TELLS ME WHAT TO SAY
WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS
ON HE MAKES IT GO AWAY
THE HANDS ARE CRACKED AND DIRTY AND
THE NAILS ARE BEETLE WINGS
WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS ON HE
UNTIES ALL OF THE STRINGS
THE WORM: "TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL,
TELL ME SOMETHING FREE,
TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL
AND I WISH THAT I COULD BE."
(THEN I GOT MY WINGS AND I NEVER EVEN KNEW IT,
WHEN I WAS A WORM, THOUGHT I COULDN'T GET THROUGH IT)
JACK: (NOT SPOKEN) COME, COME
THE TOYS ALL SMELL LIKE CHILDREN
AND SCAB-KNEES WILL OBEY
I'LL HAVE TO KNEEL ON BROOMSTICKS
JUST TO MAKE IT GO AWAY
[THE INAUGURATION OF THE WORM]
(THEN I GOT MY WINGS AND I NEVER EVEN KNEW IT,
WHEN I WAS A WORM, THOUGHT I COULDN'T GET THROUGH IT)
A VOICE WE HAVE NOT YET HEARD: "BECAUSE TODAY
IS BLACK/BECAUSE THERE IS NO TURNING BACK.
BECAUSE YOUR LIES HAVE WATERED ME/ I HAVE BECOME THE
STRONGEST WEED" WEED...
THROUGH JACK'S EYES:
THE TASTE OF METAL
DISINTEGRATOR
THREE HOLES UPON THE LEATHER BELT
IT'S CUT AND SWOLLEN
AND THE AGE IS SHOWING
BOY: " THERE'S NO ONE HERE TO SAVE OURSELF."
THE DISINTEGRATOR: (TO HIMSELF)
THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR
YOU ARE WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR
-Marilyn Manson
This is just a response to the idea that it is a worm working its way through the noise, trying to break through. But 46+2 is no help because you still have to deal with the shadow which won't allow you to break free of the state of being a worm. It is once you have broken yourself of the ties of Jimmy, Pushit, Ænima, and then found yourself in Third Eye (which is I think finding yourself after you have run away from yourself) that you break free of the worm and "get your wings." I think that this album is first telling you want puts you into bondage, then it moves into the things that would keep you in bondage (e.g. Hooker w/a Penis=capitalism/feed/obey, Jimmy=memories, Pushit= Oedipidal tendencies, Ænima= a need to flush away the bonds that have actually been tying you down whether that is hate for something, or perhaps caring about worthless things like your car-latte-smiley glad hands-insecure actress-fuck those things, Third Eye= you've run away from your alter ego, you've decided based on what you have attached to that some things will be accepted about yourself, but others will not, so you run away. Eventually, to transcend this hellish earth, ascend, what have you, you come back to yourself, "so good to see you once again", "I reach into the shadow, to pull the pieces from the sand, which I attempt to reassemble, find out just who I might have been" then you become one with yourself again and your ready to go through the struggle again with different things to hold you back this time, but you have conquered this before, you can do it again and again. "'round and round'"
HE LIVES INSIDE MY MOUTH
AND TELLS ME WHAT TO SAY
WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS
ON HE MAKES IT GO AWAY
THE HANDS ARE CRACKED AND DIRTY AND
THE NAILS ARE BEETLE WINGS
WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS ON HE
UNTIES ALL OF THE STRINGS
THE WORM: "TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL,
TELL ME SOMETHING FREE,
TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL
AND I WISH THAT I COULD BE."
(THEN I GOT MY WINGS AND I NEVER EVEN KNEW IT,
WHEN I WAS A WORM, THOUGHT I COULDN'T GET THROUGH IT)
JACK: (NOT SPOKEN) COME, COME
THE TOYS ALL SMELL LIKE CHILDREN
AND SCAB-KNEES WILL OBEY
I'LL HAVE TO KNEEL ON BROOMSTICKS
JUST TO MAKE IT GO AWAY
[THE INAUGURATION OF THE WORM]
(THEN I GOT MY WINGS AND I NEVER EVEN KNEW IT,
WHEN I WAS A WORM, THOUGHT I COULDN'T GET THROUGH IT)
A VOICE WE HAVE NOT YET HEARD: "BECAUSE TODAY
IS BLACK/BECAUSE THERE IS NO TURNING BACK.
BECAUSE YOUR LIES HAVE WATERED ME/ I HAVE BECOME THE
STRONGEST WEED" WEED...
THROUGH JACK'S EYES:
THE TASTE OF METAL
DISINTEGRATOR
THREE HOLES UPON THE LEATHER BELT
IT'S CUT AND SWOLLEN
AND THE AGE IS SHOWING
BOY: " THERE'S NO ONE HERE TO SAVE OURSELF."
THE DISINTEGRATOR: (TO HIMSELF)
THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR
YOU ARE WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR
-Marilyn Manson
This is just a response to the idea that it is a worm working its way through the noise, trying to break through. But 46+2 is no help because you still have to deal with the shadow which won't allow you to break free of the state of being a worm. It is once you have broken yourself of the ties of Jimmy, Pushit, Ænima, and then found yourself in Third Eye (which is I think finding yourself after you have run away from yourself) that you break free of the worm and "get your wings." I think that this album is first telling you want puts you into bondage, then it moves into the things that would keep you in bondage (e.g. Hooker w/a Penis=capitalism/feed/obey, Jimmy=memories, Pushit= Oedipidal tendencies, Ænima= a need to flush away the bonds that have actually been tying you down whether that is hate for something, or perhaps caring about worthless things like your car-latte-smiley glad hands-insecure actress-fuck those things, Third Eye= you've run away from your alter ego, you've decided based on what you have attached to that some things will be accepted about yourself, but others will not, so you run away. Eventually, to transcend this hellish earth, ascend, what have you, you come back to yourself, "so good to see you once again", "I reach into the shadow, to pull the pieces from the sand, which I attempt to reassemble, find out just who I might have been" then you become one with yourself again and your ready to go through the struggle again with different things to hold you back this time, but you have conquered this before, you can do it again and again. "'round and round'"
Great thoughts. i can't agree with some of the song
'explanations' but those are more
personal for me anyway.
great thoughts.
great eye:)
__________________ "A humanist is anyone who rejects the attempt to describe or account for man wholly on the basis of physics, chemistry or animal behaviour." ~Joseph R. Krutch
