imo this song is bout how the world has lost communications with each other... language is the cornerstone of communication and peace. this is just a very simple and basic interpretation...id like to hear more opinions
language can also be the cornerstone of division, more like cornerstones. There seems to be so many castles constructed on pure (sometimes) intention these days. Pick your cult and join them building it all the way to the sky, but they never get there. Everything we need is right down here. So let's talk about dirt...
imo this song is bout how the world has lost communications with each other... language is the cornerstone of communication and peace. this is just a very simple and basic interpretation...id like to hear more opinions
Thought it was going to be "serious" Not to be rude my friend but that was a pretty basic interpretation. But i couldnt do any better so dont ask. haha
__________________ Hey, Do you have a drinking problem?
"No, I pretty much got it figured out."
well to simplify one of the major lines and one of the most important imo. is the last.
cold silence, has a tendency, to atrophy, any sense of compassion
if you dont see/talk/interact with a person on a daily basis, its easier to not care about them. its an instinct we have developed. But on the other hand, even when some of the people you know make you upset/frustrated/angry, the ones you see on a daily or near daily basis. its hard to say in that negative light. atleast imo
Thought it was going to be "serious" Not to be rude my friend but that was a pretty basic interpretation. But i couldnt do any better so dont ask. haha
thats y i said a very basic and simple interpretation... i could go into more detail about certain lines on the song if u would like...
well to simplify one of the major lines and one of the most important imo. is the last.
cold silence, has a tendency, to atrophy, any sense of compassion
if you dont see/talk/interact with a person on a daily basis, its easier to not care about them. its an instinct we have developed. But on the other hand, even when some of the people you know make you upset/frustrated/angry, the ones you see on a daily or near daily basis. its hard to say in that negative light. atleast imo
I'm with you man. There's definitely a reference to our relationships with others.
Obviously, we have more of an effect on the people we interact with on a daily basis. Therefore, our communication should be clear and open. Strengthening our communication refers to the ones who are closest to us and not second guessing them.
There even seems to be connection with Vicarious when speaking of being distant with people. Easier to watch it on the boob tube than to be caught up in it.
This of course all being IMO.
:)
__________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin, from Excalibur
This song is the sequel to pushit and the prequel to jambi. Listen to them in order from first to last and think about the internal struggle between the ego and the unconcious and the true self.
PUSHIT
The lines from pushit "saw the gap again today" is foreshadowing the eventual death of the ego. "rememeber i will always love you" you love yourself and your ego is a part of you so it is hard to let go. "but id trade it all for just a little peice of mind" that is a literal sentence meaning i would give up my peice of mind (the ego, a part of you) to be enlightented or truer to the self in some way. "better take care not to make me enter, cause if i do we both may dissappear" is the ego using logic and fear to persuade the unconscious not to kill the ego itself for the possibility that death would come to both of them. "If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay,
You minimize my movement anyway, I must persuade you another way." basically means i cant stand it any longer being pushed around and commanded by you. If i stay and let you rule i might as well not even be here. "Even as I tear your fucking throat away. But it will end no other way." this is saying bascially that the ego is too strong and will not go down without a fight. So it will end no other way the ego must die.
SCHISM
Schism is basicaly about bringing the ego out of the gap and reuniting as one. Saying "i know the peices fit" is a acknowledgement that the unconsciousness and the ego are only parts of the self and that in order to find peace we must reunite them as one being. "Fundamental differing." is saying that the two are fundamentally opposing each other. They are created for two seperate purposes and that they directly oppose each other. "Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion. Disintegrating as it goes testing our communication" This is saying that both the ego and unconsciousness are, like i said earlier fundamentally opposed to each other and that having them both functioning as seperate entities it is breaking down the communication of the self and the communication between the two. The two lovers are the two parts of the self. They are lovers becuase they are one. "No fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to. Point the finger, blame the other," This is saying that even though he or it or she knows that they are opposed even at creation so no one is to blame that the urge to blame the other half is still there. No blame can be given because they were created directly to oppose each other yet the want is still there. "I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication." This part is referring back to pushit when the ego was trying to persuade the self to not kill it. Saying i know what can happen if this isnt done. It is dangerous to second guess becaues then you are letting yoru ego rule you. Doomed to crubmle unless we grow is saying that we are doomed as entity if we cant sort this out and become one again and live in union. We must learn to coinside and communicate or else. "Cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any Sense of compassion
Between supposed lovers/brothers." Basically silence and not communicating with your inner parts of the mind as one will slowly kill you and any chance of reconciliation. Without communication the two lovers will simply lose compassion for each other and the mind will be split. The overall principle is saying that we must bring the ego back from the depths of the gap, confront it and force it to become one with the self instead of simply killing the ego we must be strong and courageous and bring it back.
JAMBI
Jambi is mostly a reiteration of schism saying that we must reunite our shattered minds as one embodiement. "But I would wish it all, away If I thought I'd lose you just one day" This is referring to back tot he idea of "we must unite to survive." "The devil and his had me down In love with the dark side I'd found Dabblin' all the way down Up to my neck, soon to drown." I think the Devil is the ego and he is remember how he was dragged down by his dark and unruley ego. "Prayed like a martyr dusk to dawn Begged like a hooker all night long Tempted the devil with my song And got what I wanted all along" i think this is a line of remembrance of the trials he had to go through to accomplish this. He prayed and begged for the embrace of the two and tempted the ego with the idea of unity. He might mean Schism by referring to the "song." "No prize that could hold sway Or justify my giving away my center" This is talking about how nothing is going to knock him from this path. This is important to him no prize could keep him from letting go of the idea of unity."You, my piece of mind, my all, my center, just trying to hold on one more day. Damn my eyes! Damn my eyes! If they should compromise the fulcrum: (If) wants and needs divide me Then I might as well be gone..." This line and the huge ocean of liberating sound afterwards are the epoch of the song. I believe this is finally when the two become one. He is saying your are me i am you just hold on as we go through metamorphosis to become one. Damn my eyes if they could compromise the fulcrum means basically if i ever unbalance the lever of power when we are one that it will ruin it so i wont follow my eyes. Also it could mean that he wants to compromise the fulcrum to incite unity and that his want to do this could hurt the cause but the need to have it be done is immense and the two ideas are tearing him apart. The the want to use force and the need to be as one are putting so much strain on him that he might as well be gone, or not here, dead. Then the music kicks in and everyone starts headbaging. But i think this is the moment the two become one because right afterwards this happens. "Shine on forever Shine on benevolent sun
Shine down upon the broken Shine until the two become one" I think the benevolent sun is the true united self shining down on the peices making it up and willing them to become one. "Divided, I'll wither away Shine down upon the many. Light our way, benevolent sun. Breathe in union So, as one, survive Another day and season Silence, legion. Save your poison. Silence, legion. Stay out of my way." This is the finale that ecompasses everything and pretty much rejoices the fact that the two have become one. Divided we will die. Breathe in union as one is pretty self explanatory. As one they will continue to thrive and live on. Silence legions is basically saying nothing will stand in my way now that i have united myslef. Legions is also a biblical name for the devil and it can also refer to the legions of warriors that were used to try and break the Budda from his meditation under his tree, but through the noise, dust, and fear the budda's concentration never failed.
This songs are linked to each other and basically are talking about the same thing. Kill the ego and push it into the gap. Then bring it back and reunite together and hold steadily in balance. Other songs like reflection syaing "cruicify the ego", eulogy "to acsend you must die, you must be cruicified, for our sins and our lies", Intention "move by will alone" (will=ego?), and Intolerance "our guilt, our blame, ive been far too sympathetic, our blood, our fault." i think could all be about the same topic. all relating back to the internal struggle within the mind. In intolerance he says he wont take it anymore but then starts referring to himself as a group maybe signalling that there are mulitple parts of the unconsciousness and that it is thier fault for lettting the ego get out of control. It could all be connected or it could all just be a crock but i like how this idea fits most of tool's work together as one centralized idea.
__________________ Give from thine rations and you shall recieve my bounty.
Last edited by GideonBufo; 11-05-2007 at 03:08 AM..
Schism is as straight forward as it should be taken: Communication between people. Maynard favours communication between people if you read his interviews.
Best song on this record.
Very good message.
Communication.
I tend to agree.
I actually think Pushit and Ticks & Leeches are connected by the fan base. I really don't see the reference to the ego being a part of Schism.
But that's just my opinion.
By the way, I'm glad to see someone else thinks thinks this is one of their best McRoggles.
:)
__________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin, from Excalibur
I'm with you man. There's definitely a reference to our relationships with others.
Obviously, we have more of an effect on the people we interact with on a daily basis. Therefore, our communication should be clear and open. Strengthening our communication refers to the ones who are closest to us and not second guessing them.
There even seems to be connection with Vicarious when speaking of being distant with people. Easier to watch it on the boob tube than to be caught up in it.
This of course all being IMO.
:)
i beg to differ i think wen he say vicariously i watch while the whole world dies hes refering to our leaders of the country as they sit in our own safe country as they send army our to fight for their profit..."mother (usa) hold her child(army) watches him die... i posted on this song take a look if u wish
i beg to differ i think wen he say vicariously i watch while the whole world dies hes refering to our leaders of the country as they sit in our own safe country as they send army our to fight for their profit..."mother (usa) hold her child(army) watches him die... i posted on this song take a look if u wish
Hmmmmm.....
Well, there's definitely a reference about people who get caught up in vicariously watching other's misfortunes. Normally about people you don't have any contact with whatsoever. This without breaking down every analogy in the song.
Just thinking there was some kind of connection with Schism on that point of view.
:)
__________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin, from Excalibur
Well, there's definitely a reference about people who get caught up in vicariously watching other's misfortunes. Normally about people you don't have any contact with whatsoever. This without breaking down every analogy in the song.
Just thinking there was some kind of connection with Schism on that point of view.
:)
its quite possible im just not sure i completely understand the connection ur trying to establish there...maybe u could post it in more detail?
I heard somewhere that the breakup of communication expressed in this song was a representation of Maynard Keenan & Adam Jone's professional relationship.
The pieces seem to fit. The awesome thing is that can be applied to any relationship.
Not many bands are able to make their music such a personal experience...
its quite possible im just not sure i completely understand the connection ur trying to establish there...maybe u could post it in more detail?
Ok.....
To me, Vicarious picks up where Schism left off. The intro to Vicarious starts out with the "alarm clock" sound saying: Wake up people!!! Quit being so cold-hearted!!! You're getting too caught up in other people's misfortunes. Mainly b/c it provides our little security blankets giving a safe feeling that these events aren't affecting us. While probably directed more towards the media, I think it also refers to the people that feel the need to make light of anyone going through rough times. These people I mention are normally the ones that discuss everyone's personal life with their next door neighbor. You know, usually the boring shitheads that have no life of their own, so they speculate on other's to fill that void. They do this vicariously from a good safe distance.
Schism is about mending relationships with those close to us.
Vicarious is about mending relationships with those not so close.
I sincerely apologize if this post doesn't flow, but I'm horrible with putting my thoughts into words. I did my best.
__________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin, from Excalibur
Is it at all possible that the song could be based on the "great schism" of 1054 when christianity split? the catholic and western church split from eastern orthodox over papal authority, doctrinal, theological and linguistic lines and still exist today. Pope John Paul II attempted to promote unity in november 2004, maybe his effort had an impact on Maynard?
Is it at all possible that the song could be based on the "great schism" of 1054 when christianity split? the catholic and western church split from eastern orthodox over papal authority, doctrinal, theological and linguistic lines and still exist today. Pope John Paul II attempted to promote unity in november 2004, maybe his effort had an impact on Maynard?
I think this is an intresting thought.Ive never heard of that before,but hey with maynard,who knows.I think the world is in a sad state of affairs right now,I saw a post yesterday on the way 9/11 affected people and how we seem to have come together for a bit,especially citizens of NYC,but now we have slid right back into the same old habits.I believe we are in the end of times,I dont know how much longer we have,but then again no one does,but things will only get worse if we dont wise up as a race and become one nation and start putting the lines of communication back together.
there is definitely a connection between schism and vicarious. im no musician but i hear a lot of the same notes, and chord changes in both.
Jeez, you're certainly aren't a musician!
No offense, but they are WAY different.
Different beat, different notes being hit.
The only connection might be found during the solo of Schism and between the second and third chorus of Vicarious, or through the lyrics.
the christian church will never be unified because there are too many
denominations of it...they are all bickering about petty differences...seems to be
a "human thing" never finding the common ground when the ground is all we've got
kinda like "right in two"? with the tug of war...and the angles on the sideline watching it...wondering when it will all end... or am i way off?
communication shouldn't be limited to speech. if tool has taught us anything it has been that we don't shut the fuck up. and even bill hicks has said it too : take a look around the world in which we live and ...shut your fuckin mouth". hush, "remember i'll always love you, even as i tear your fuckin throat away", "defining", ticks & leeches, etc. stop talking, stop defining. the moment you throw a word onto something, you settle for the term ... by-passing the flowing changes of spirals and abstracts "between the lines" - "i move myself between the sounds". you're lying to yourself again...
hushhhhhhhhhhhhh...
(by pressing "submit" i am an immediate hypocrite)
kinda like "right in two"? with the tug of war...and the angles on the sideline watching it...wondering when it will all end... or am i way off?
Yeah thats a good interpretation. But there are more than two factions of religion.
Could be related to the whole Protestant/Catholic thing in Ireland as well.
Angels on the sidelines....that would be the spiritualists, who see the church as a obsolete tool. We watch all these religious warring on tv and think, DAMN thats stupid!
Ok? That was just my thoughts. I didn't say they were fact. What makes you think you're so right?
The fact that I play guitar and drums for both these songs and I don't recognise the similarity between them musically. How long has it been since you listened to both of these songs?
If you doubt my word, then look up the online guitar tabs and see how the numbers don't match up
By hey, freedom of speech right? Nice thoughts, but sadly, no solidity to them.
Has anyone considered the lyrics might be talking about many different things at the same time, lyrics and meaning mixed up with each other, and that its possibly one reason we have such a hard time deciphering because people tend to think one song is about one specific thing?
I think it's about the massive separation of religion after the great flood, the ancients had most of the pieces put together, but when the entire earth was flooded by the massive gravitational pull of niburu, or some other disaster in our solar system, the ones who survived failed to keep the populous informed and this is where our communication breakdown started. The esoteric information got into the hands of evil and hence the great deception was born. The major religions were a product of that. Thats why they included "fundamental differences" into every religion, to keep the people at war over these things, when in reality the scriptures are filled with symbols and codes to be analyzed together.
But I also think some of the songs lyrics are about consciousness and communication between people, and fundamental reasons of communication breakdown.
Has anyone considered the lyrics might be talking about many different things at the same time, lyrics and meaning mixed up with each other, and that its possibly one reason we have such a hard time deciphering because people tend to think one song is about one specific thing?
I think it's about the massive separation of religion after the great flood, the ancients had most of the pieces put together, but when the entire earth was flooded by the massive gravitational pull of niburu, or some other disaster in our solar system, the ones who survived failed to keep the populous informed and this is where our communication breakdown started. The esoteric information got into the hands of evil and hence the great deception was born. The major religions were a product of that. Thats why they included "fundamental differences" into every religion, to keep the people at war over these things, when in reality the scriptures are filled with symbols and codes to be analyzed together.
But I also think some of the songs lyrics are about consciousness and communication between people, and fundamental reasons of communication breakdown.
Yeah, humans have a tendency to label thing with only one label when things deserve more than that. However, i'm not sure what you're talking about when you mention the 'great flood' ( is that Noahs arks one?)
Therefore, this songs is about:
Religious schism ( The Great Schism ),
Lack of communication between people,
Lack of external awareness,
Controlling the Ego,
Sex and....
Tetris
Yeah, humans have a tendency to label thing with only one label when things deserve more than that. However, i'm not sure what you're talking about when you mention the 'great flood' ( is that Noahs arks one?)
Therefore, this songs is about:
Religious schism ( The Great Schism ),
Lack of communication between people,
Lack of external awareness,
Controlling the Ego,
Sex and....
Tetris
( I may have missed something out?)
yeah, i can admit that lately ive had alot of "relationship" stuff going on so ive been more towards the excommunication between people thing. but i see how it can mean all of these things. expect the religion thing cause i don't know anything about it.
Yeah, humans have a tendency to label thing with only one label when things deserve more than that. However, i'm not sure what you're talking about when you mention the 'great flood' ( is that Noahs arks one?)
Therefore, this songs is about:
Religious schism ( The Great Schism ),
Lack of communication between people,
Lack of external awareness,
Controlling the Ego,
Sex and....
Tetris
( I may have missed something out?)
Yea, the "40 days and 40 nights" one. Yet Zecharia Sitchin believes it was a tidal wave.
The great schism was between Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. I highly doubt this song is about that. But you never know...
Has anyone considered this song might be about multiple games? Tetris and possibly Dr. Mario or Yoshis cookie? Or maybe just a really hard puzzle.
The fact that I play guitar and drums for both these songs and I don't recognise the similarity between them musically. How long has it been since you listened to both of these songs?
If you doubt my word, then look up the online guitar tabs and see how the numbers don't match up
By hey, freedom of speech right? Nice thoughts, but sadly, no solidity to them.
Well, I play drums and I listen to these songs quite often. It was simply my opinion that these songs were in some way connected by the way we treat others. Read my earlier post. If you don't agree.....fine. You don't have to contest my word into the ground though.
__________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin, from Excalibur
