These are the only lyrics that Maynard gets wrong. The universe is not benevolent nor hostile, but merely indifferent. He should of said "the universe is indifferent, so humdrum...." God, the sun is not out to devour us.

The universe is only ambivalent if you can truly say that it is distinct from humanity. But we're a small part of it on a grand scale, and the major part of it on our own scale, so if one thinks humanity is hostile than one can accurately say the universe is hostile.

How? Do you consider the four forces (gravity, electromagnetism, weak and strong force) to be hostile? Comets and asteroids seem hostile, but all they're doing is being bounced around and eventually it crashes into something. It's not like it has a brain and thinks "geez those humans I hate them I'm going to travel millions of light years to give them hell!" So when it comes down to it, the universe is not here to serve our ambitions. Some of us just choose to believe that.

I don't think you should take the lyrics literally, they are painting a picture. He is not giving his theory of the universe and if he were it would have no validity as a theory becuse of the medium it was presented in. We project ourselves on to the universe, so if the person is addicted to real- life tradgedy on the TV the are probably hostile and impersonal. Throughout the song he decribing inderference and hostilility, and he shouldn't have to say it all again. He sums it up anyway.

I say real-life becuase of greek tragedy, wich I think is a beautiful thing.

No kidding....talk about some major nit-picking.

I'm not nit-picking Maynard's imagery here, but I thought using a general word such as "universe" makes the message a bit vague and misleading. The universe itself is indifferent, it's human society that is hostile and impersonal. I just think it contradicts what he said in the "Grudge" even if he used baseless astrology: "saturn comes round again......ignorant to the damage done." Regardless of what we do on Earth, the planets are still revolving and orbiting in our solar system and it's business as usual in the other galaxies. So I thought using the word "universe" in that passage was being a bit vague and misleading, but whatever. That's just my critique. I love the lyrics and message overall. I just wanted to know why he used such a general word. Actually, I'm beginning to think it wouldn't have sounded as good or epic if he got any more specific.

"A particular part of the universe comprising an insignificant amount of its total mass , and characterized by its love of Starbuck's, Coke, and McDonald's is hostile, so impersonal" Nope, not as epic.

What I meant by what I said was along the lines of how you can't remove the observer from what's being observed, which fits in nicely with the theme of the song. I wasn't very clear about that in my first post, sorry.

Also, hostility isn't necessarily a concious action. To qualify as hostile, an action just has to be adverse to something else. The universe on a whole cannot support life and is therefore hostile toward life.

...and yet another way to look at it is :
Its the narrator of the song (not necessarily Maynard himself) saying this in an attempt to justify his need to watch things die. As in, "Since the universe is hostile and has been 'devouring' forever, its ok. That's how Everything works, so its NOT just voyeurism for cheap thrills. My love of watching the terrible things on TV is natural; universal."
That's how I've always took it. I don't think Maynard or the band (or anyone else whom places the fruit of life symbol on things truly believe that the universe is hostile. I think its good old fashion Tool flavored sarcasm to make a point...gotta love it.

The universe is hostile (EVOLUTION... natural selection... from a human point of view, that is HOSTILE to our living)

SO IMPERSONAL (and there you have your all-important ambivalence... but it is hostile from a human P.O.V.)

My posistion on your view is that HE IS NOT saying it as HIS VIEW, MAYNARDS THEORY OF THE UNIVERSE. IT IS the UNiverse of the person of the song becuase it does contradict previous statements, that were his or apear to be. THe Universe of the person of the song is hostile and impersonal, since we project our selves onto the universe, like names of the constalation are the greeks projecting themselves on to the universe. He is painting a pictiure through the imagry oin the lyrics and you are taking it as his view and not the one or ones he is singing about. I did not say you were nit-picking, Inner_Eulogy did, so I assume this happens to you a lot.

No, I meant saying it's indifferent and humdrum may of not sound as epic to him as hostile and impersonal.



Obviously a comet the size of Texas making impact with Earth is going to be hostile. What I meant was the comet doesn't have ambitions or intentions. It just gets bounced around in our galaxy.

credulous at best your desire to believe in, Angels in the hearts of Men.

Everything is defined by seperation. You wan't a cup? You must first rip the clay out from heart of the earth.

Every other species is alien to us. Everything is alien.
You're just so cradled in humanities Mind-Designs all around you in a city: A place where your mind instantly indentifies every symbol, so that your in complete Denial of the strangeness of existence.

Commercials want you to indenify with them. movies want you to think theyre real.

Pull your head out your ass man (:

Your very thoughts are in reality just electric sparks between Tiny Alien starfish neurons.

Now you might want to forget this.

But it's still a fact that EVEN YOUR OWN BODY is run by strange critters we don't understand completely.

Not to even mentio the fact that our mind is a sword, and the nature of understading is Dissection.

Well think of it as food for thought.

yo gotta bite a lump of the apple before you can synthesize it right?

Then you got fruit + lump. Teeth cutting.

So? The fact that that's all it is I find very captivating. I don't need to delve into the mystical to find some self-serving path to follow to transcend the brain or my eyes or my ears or whatever it is it may be.

You don't have too.
overthinking and overanalyzing seperates the body from the mind..
I guess it would have been best just to be ignorant all along.
now im broken.. and very occultish haha ;D

Nice ;D I gotta throw some hand-signs to that comment haha

Somebody please read the God thread below. My last post there is really looking for some outside opinions and advice.

I agree with this, he is not speaking as himself and not presenting an ideology, but telling a story, with a real nice sarcastic touch.
The message I got from it is that we fear so many things and perhaps separate ourselves from the universe, because we think that it's hostile, when in fact there is precious little to fear for man, apart from himself. And we keep feeding ourselves with all this misery, to keep up this illusion of danger. Keeps us passive and easy to govern, makes us need heroes that can come save us from this and that.
And perhaps this repeating it also becomes almost a ritual, of sacrificing, like in the "good old days", knowing that in the end everything costs and we'd rather have someone else pay the price. And to suffer thru media, or letting others suffer, is still a kind of suffering, and makes us feel a bit better about our indefference.

Sorry for double posting and all the "ands" .... ehheh... my connection is sucks.

No, because then we would be in a dark age.

Get it right from the source:

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference." - Richard Dawkins, http://www.RichardDawkins.com

I always took this song as Maynard not being the person "talking" in the song. I mean why would these words be Maynards speaking to the listener?
He has created a "character" and these are the words of the character. These are the ideas he imagines this character saying, thinking, seeing the world as.
I just saw Tool and while singing this song, he had to stop right after he started to drink water so he missed the last part of the verse and chorus while the band played on. I always thought he was kind of using a different "voice" in this song.
Now he may just have needed water, but if youre purposely changing your voice to be a bit more "grovely", then you would likely be straining it.

This may all be silly assuming but to me it always seemed like he was playing a character in this song and even changed up his voice a bit for it. The water thing at the show just made me think he was very purposely changing his voice. Cause that ISNT the way he normally sings.

I imagine that hes making a statement of how people have become in this internet, television filled world of sensational news, reality shows, car chases, my space pages......Making that statement by speaking from the point of view of the people hes talking about. And that still doesnt mean he doesnt have these feelings himself, as I too get appalled by the state of people today regarding this but find myself having the same tendencies.


sorry for this entirely too long post to make a point.

all that and I dont even think I made my point.....
I was trying to say that the "universe..... hostile" thing and such isnt "wrong" per se cause its how he is playing this character to think. It doesnt have to mean Maynard believes this himself.

ok there!

nOPE, but every single living thing in it would rather you die than it, myself included.

That is a form of hostility.


I must take over this thing to survive, if i don't, something will take over me.

The point is that the universe is indifferent to the "hostility" of life.

"This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose." - www.richarddawkins.com

u people just don't stop, do u? this is entertaining. i don't care who u quote. he/she is human and allowed to be wrong. if there is such a thing.

Wrong, he is God in here... lol And just like christians struggle with the fact that God created sucha shitty world, we will forever analyse this song and wonder why He would think that the universe is hostile.

And our hostile host tonight will be god, the lord of hosts.

since we can only experience the universe by being seperate from it, that then makes everything except YOU alien. And very much hostile, since we all compete in assimilating alien materials and impressions unto or into our own hosted vessel.

Now if you don't consider the fact that your very thoughts are consisting of tiny little alien critters strange, that would only mean that you've assimilated this concept and familiriarized it.

Your mind is working quite well then.

Now what happens when you expand your consciousness with drugs and mess up your system, is that the Cut-o-matic™ mechanism (see right-in-two) starts to dysfunction, so that you begin seeing the holostic perspective.
Before you would have taken the "Neuron" symbol and cut-away all the information that didn't fit with the already assimilated bits of reality, and threw these strange bits into the Denial bin.

Now that you've taken drugs though, you start too look at the world through the eyes of a wondering child, since you suddenly realize that Everything is One, which then means that All opposites now coexist.

(they're just cells, but also completely fucking retardly weird)
(Lateralus quote: to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.)

This is then quite impossible to assimilate, so you go mad. (like me)

Then you listen too tool, looking for guidance to get out of the swamp, since they obviously went mad years ago, and seemed to recover.

(this whole procedure is also described as the Camel-lion-child situation by nietzsche)

So the solution is to smoke some...salvia, or what ? hehe And then spend an eternity recovering from the shock ? ok....

Are you ok, Apachana ?

no haha. I sadly went mad lol. Well im ok happy :D .. and once I find a new apartement and start some school again, I guess ill recover from the sad truths of insanity. haha

but yeah im kinda saddened lately bout that whole one day I will perish thing of life. thanks for asking :)

Aha..so u really went mad-mad...I'm sorry to hear that. Glad that you are coming back to this...sane (?) world again. hehe. It still is better than that other place.

To say not to worry about that perishing thing, hardly helps, but I'm still gonna say it. ;) Sun will shine. hehe..makes me think of that musical, Hair, I just happen to love it.
(Sorry for digressing, thats my specialty, sorry)

thanks man haha. yeah the worlds weird no matter what. might as well enjoy it anyways lol. its much better living in a strange world saying ..ok fuck it its absurd, but look at them female mammals yeah haha.. than simply tripping on it lol.

im just temporarily fucked haha. nothing new lol. the good thing is the down got me clean from weed. Dont need the high no more lol. ive already expanded my perception to much lol. black holes and lightwaves, quaballah, meditation to attain godhood, dmt fractal elves. dammit.. gotta retreat from that pesky rabbits hole for a while haha.

Umm, honestly, qabbalah, black holes and whatever have never helped me, either, when I've been fucked up, au contraire. heh. So might be a good idea to keep away for a while. ;)
Enjoy the physical world, while in touch with it , heh. Don't know bout weed or salvia or anything really, from personal experience, but I have struggled enough times to keep some poor bastard with a bad trip, down on a bed, to know that drugs aren't always good for u.... So congrats.
(And no offence, personal choice what u do with your body, but I'll never think it's a good thing...)

I cannot believe how nit picky everybody's being over "the universe is hostile" line. Ok, there were a few ideas....now leave it be. Some of you people are just completely over-analyzing it. He called the universe hostile, as in all life feeds on life to survive. There, done. Now go do something useful.

Eeeep.... *silenced*

So, i'm half asleep this morning, and i have the worst flash headache of my emmeffing life, right, you with me?
so, i look straight into my pillow, and begin to imagine ''The ChickenMatrix''

(Me)ChickenNeo: So, you're trying to tell me that i can dodge bullets?

(My Wife)ChickenMorpheus: No, i'm telling you, when the time comes, you won't have to.

(Me)ChickenNeo: Bawgawk

And it was the funniest thing ever. It spawned a good two-minute runthrough of Keanu Reeves' film career, just with him as a chicken. (You know, so he always hits his mark, and says the right thing...)

Hilaaaarious.

Go listen to music, come back here, and live the chicken story.
Live it and stop this bovine chicanery post haste.

I have had the day from hell, get on TDN, read this, and BOOM! Everything seems okay again.

Thanks Jevons, fucking brilliant!

Keanu as a chicken is just so...right... teehee

It is, perhaps, the definitive co(s)mic work of the fledgeling millienium.

So i'm glad you understand.