ha, he certainly doesn't say "you're"... he very faintly and indiscernibly mumbles something under his breath... it's clearly unclear. and really more of a mumble than a word of any sort... so for you to just assume it's "you're"... is really the whole point of why he mumbled something in the first place.
you can clearly hear "enemy" and "your"... so if you want to get logical... use that-
ha, he certainly doesn't say "you're"... he very faintly and indiscernibly mumbles something under his breath... it's clearly unclear. and really more of a mumble than a word of any sort... so for you to just assume it's "you're"... is really the whole point of why he mumbled something in the first place.
you can clearly hear "enemy" and "your"... so if you want to get logical... use that-
HAHAHA.....Whatever dude. Funny that you CANT hear it.....everyone else CAN and KNOWS what he is singing! Sry your ego cant handle being wrong, but you are wrong......sometimes life gives you lemons.... you need to go make some lemonade.
I mean... you readily and openly admit that you have an ego problem as proof in your past posts correct? Or are you gonna deny that as well?
I was implying that it might not be a coincidence that he sang on RATM's "Know Your Enemy..." and now he MIGHT HAVE been making a SUBTLE tribute to that song, and Rage, when he says the WORDS "SENSE YOUR ENEMY" on Tool's song, "UNDERTOW." ThreeDeviations
My $0.02
'Undertow' is a song about drug addiction. This is a known fact. Maynard uses lots of water imagery in this track, also a known fact. So why would a song about drug addiction include a line that is an obscure "tribute" to Rage Against The Machine who are a politally minded band? Where's the logical connection? Sorry but I don't see it. But I certainly see a connection between a song with a lot of water imagery and the word "saturate". Not rocket science but...
Having just typed out that self righteous assertion I took it up myself to actually listen to the track just to make sure, and *drumroll*..... It's definetly 'saturating'!
How do I know this? First, I listened to it off the CD through a good amplifier with a pair of expensive (meaning accurate) headphones. Anyone listeng to an MP3 version of the song via their computer's sound card is kidding themselves if they think they can make a judgment about such a fine detail of the song. Secondly, and this is what you can listen for to prove it for yourself (on the CD of course): If he really said "sense your enemy" there would be two sibilant sounds when he says the word "sense". There is only one sibilant sound and that is him singing the 's' in "saturate". You can also clearly hear him voice a second 't' where according to some he sholud be singing the word "enenmy" which clearly he is not.
ha, he certainly doesn't say "you're"... he very faintly and indiscernibly mumbles something under his breath... it's clearly unclear.
No shit man. He doesn't say ANY of the lyrics, he SINGS them and that means that to fit them rythmically and melodically into the song he has to voice them in a way that is often less than clear. This is where you are having a great deal of trouble. Just have a little faith in those that can hear him and believe us when we assure you the words he sings are "you're saturating me". We're not lying to you dammit!
^^Sure but why should that also be a convenient "tribute" to RATM? Why would Tool want to tribute RATM in a song about drug use? Why would Tool want to tribute RATM at all? Why is this a better alternative to "you're saturating me"?
Back up your assertion with some explanations. "gee" doesn't impart a great deal of information.
Water is a metaphore for cleansing actually.... Drugs are a way to forget your ego, if USED. There is a differance between using and taking drugs.
Taking drugs- injests a certain chemical into the body and just "hangs out".
Using Drugs- same as above, only you close your eyes so that you may see in.... and hopefully find yourself.
Here is a quote -
"You say you believe in Zarathustra? But of what importance is Zarathustra?
You are my believers: but of what importance are all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves when you found me. Thus do all believers; therefore all belief is of so little account.
Now I bid you lose me and find yourselves; and only when you all have denied me will I return to you..."
oh yeah... this reminds me of the debate when Jimi Hendrix sang the line " excuse me while i kiss the sky" and people thought he was singing " excuse me while i kiss this guy". Kinda funny, heard purple haze on the radio at work today and made me think of how some people will never hear what is actually being said. 20 years later (after Jimi's death of course) they came out with a lyrics/tab book for everything Jimi hendrix and the experiance did and also Band of Gypsies.... the words where "excuse me while i kiss the sky"..... cant wait till 20 years go by and 3 Deviations reads the lyrics. Might sound something like Homer Simpson..... " DOH! "
Oh yeah..... and the song isnt about Drug addiction either..... "endless waters" has nothing to do metaphorically or physically with drugs, But spirituality has about a million referances to water based themes...... read some of joseph cambells stuff, you might be enlightened on the subject matter of 3/4 of tool's songs.
^^Sure but why should that also be a convenient "tribute" to RATM? Why would Tool want to tribute RATM in a song about drug use? Why would Tool want to tribute RATM at all? Why is this a better alternative to "you're saturating me"?
Back up your assertion with some explanations. "gee" doesn't impart a great deal of information.
oh yeah... this reminds me of the debate when Jimi Hendrix sang the line " excuse me while i kiss the sky" and people thought he was singing " excuse me while i kiss this guy". Kinda funny, heard purple haze on the radio at work today and made me think of how some people will never hear what is actually being said. 20 years later (after Jimi's death of course) they came out with a lyrics/tab book for everything Jimi hendrix and the experiance did and also Band of Gypsies.... the words where "excuse me while i kiss the sky"..... cant wait till 20 years go by and 3 Deviations reads the lyrics. Might sound something like Homer Simpson..... " DOH! "
You should read the thread too. I don't care what a lyric section says. I don't care what he sings at a concert. I don't care what you want to hear. I care about what he says on Undertow. It's not "you're saturating me." It's sense your enemy.
yes, I know you can't wait for 20 years to go by with the aspirations of hoping you're not wrong.
How 'bout I save you 2 decades? You are.
I don't know anyone who thought it said, "excuse me while I kiss this guy." Amusing.
"endless waters"... explain this one to me please
(and no plagiarizing eddie vedder this time either)
You should read the thread too. I don't care what a lyric section says. I don't care what he sings at a concert. I don't care what you want to hear. I care about what he says on Undertow. It's not "you're saturating me." It's sense your enemy.
yes, I know you can't wait for 20 years to go by with the aspirations of hoping you're not wrong.
How 'bout I save you 2 decades? You are.
I don't know anyone who thought it said, "excuse me while I kiss this guy." Amusing.
"endless waters"... explain this one to me please
(and no plagiarizing eddie vedder this time either)
SOUND LIKE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH..... and if you dont care about what he says... why try and defend what "you" hear? Sound like your a hipocrite to me... " i dont care about this i dont care about that, but this is what he says, i dont care about what he says he is saying or what he sings live in concert, i only care about one thing, what I "" want "" to hear "
For someone who doesnt care ..." you sure could yell... not all martyrs see divinity, at least you tried"
And i dont need to explain "endless waters" to you..... Like i said ( if you yourself would read the thread) go read some stuff from Joseph Campbell. He explains it very nicely :)
and by the way... when are you going to respong to my question in the 4 Degrees chat.... intresting theories you have in there... concious being "GOD" ... "GOD" begging for Maynard.... why would "GOD" beg for anyone.... he gave us free will to do as we please.... anyway, i really had respect for you and your "ideas" and i was trying to help you see it for what i truly is. Too bad you cant admit when your wrong about something and put your ego away for a second...... someone might get too close to you and "then the walls come down and there's a look in your eyes your fear begins to fade recalling all of the times......" its ok, i truly understand that its hard to let go.....TRULY let go that is.
To let down your walls, see things from outside, is to be naked, naked and fearless......someday i hope you come holding your eternal light.
And i dont need to explain "endless waters" to you..... Like i said ( if you yourself would read the thread) go read some stuff from Joseph Campbell. He explains it very nicely :)
by the way... it's endless WATER. not "waters."
speaks from deep beneath the endless water THAT's...
SOUND LIKE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH..... and if you dont care about what he says... why try and defend what "you" hear? Sound like your a hipocrite to me... " i dont care about this i dont care about that, but this is what he says, i dont care about what he says he is saying or what he sings live in concert, i only care about one thing, what I "" want "" to hear "
For someone who doesnt care ..." you sure could yell... not all martyrs see divinity, at least you tried"
I care about the truth.. I care about what he says. Not what an idiot like you has to say. See the difference? (probably not)
and by the way... when are you going to respong to my question in the 4 Degrees chat.... intresting theories you have in there... concious being "GOD" ... "GOD" begging for Maynard.... why would "GOD" beg for anyone.... he gave us free will to do as we please.... anyway, i really had respect for you and your "ideas" and i was trying to help you see it for what i truly is. Too bad you cant admit when your wrong about something and put your ego away for a second...... someone might get too close to you and "then the walls come down and there's a look in your eyes your fear begins to fade recalling all of the times......" its ok, i truly understand that its hard to let go.....TRULY let go that is.
To let down your walls, see things from outside, is to be naked, naked and fearless......someday i hope you come holding your eternal light.
Ha, you're pretty funny. You always use Tool and Pearl Jam quotes from songs to try to be clever and make points? That's priceless.
so you "had respect for me and my ideas and was merely trying to help me see it for what it truly is?" Ahh, I see... so it's okay for you to be a know-it-all... just not me. I'm the hypocrite and not you. Okay, I just wanted to be clear.
how bout some quote from your boy toy in the book? I want to hear some of those applied to my life lessons and soul searching I need. Until then I will be holding my eternal light of enlightenment.
and oh.. 4 degrees... not "consious" being God.. maybe his conscience though.
It's Maynard's conscience talking to him throughout the song... with his conscience being HIS perception of what God would be saying to him for acceptance and realization.
Quick question, if I may. If MJK made a post here officially declaring what is was he said, would your life change?
Whether it is "sense your enemy," "saturating me," or "suck my titty." Would it really affect the way you look at the sky, the earth, your significant other, or whatever differently?
For the record, I've always heard "Sense your enemy", or "Send your enemy", something like that. "Saturating" never came to my mind, I haven't read the official lyrics before.
Jesus five pages over this shit. Everyone's hypocritical and self righteous. Oh, and Maynard likes to fuck with people and spread grips of Fnord to the populace.
It was said earlier, words are meaningless. Life as I know it depends on the subjective interpretations not the subjective origin.
__________________ The walls of white will haunt me
The halls of hell will comfort
Until the halls, become the walls
With realization of the finite - "Brenna B."
Jesus five pages over this shit. Everyone's hypocritical and self righteous. Oh, and Maynard likes to fuck with people and spread grips of Fnord to the populace.
It was said earlier, words are meaningless. Life as I know it depends on the subjective interpretations not the subjective origin.
Never said i was a "know it all" but you just dont listen or read.... you think everything is a personal attack on you. Calling me an Idiot... very nice too btw, cause name calling is the #2 defence mechanism of humans when they are hurt or betrayed in some way, #1 being yelling or screaming at someone and both usually go hand in hand. Hope you have you knee-deep boots on..... your words are getting thick. And as i said before... sry im not a typist like yourself "endless waters" endless water".... you knew what i was talking about reguardless of the spelling mistakes i make...and i spell bad all the time, not afraid to admit a fault of my own :) but thats because im an idiot as you would say.
Never said i was a "know it all" but you just dont listen or read.... you think everything is a personal attack on you. Calling me an Idiot... very nice too btw, cause name calling is the #2 defence mechanism of humans when they are hurt or betrayed in some way, #1 being yelling or screaming at someone and both usually go hand in hand. Hope you have you knee-deep boots on..... your words are getting thick. And as i said before... sry im not a typist like yourself "endless waters" endless water".... you knew what i was talking about reguardless of the spelling mistakes i make...and i spell bad all the time, not afraid to admit a fault of my own :) but thats because im an idiot as you would say.
cuz that's what you read it was originally.. and never thought to question it, or actually listen.
no..... its because its what he is singing, lyrics for the album didnt come out till way way later. 3deviations is just being a "typical american woman" :)
but besides that, what she said.... "What you read it was originally.." the words never changed... the "originally.." she is speaking of is exactally the words and the original words/lyrics are indeed "you're saturating me"
<3 threedeviations for contradictory statements (after all she <3'd to point out all my spelling mistakes) have a great day :) hope to see you on tour :)
edit- do you question the original? ever? why would you? why would you have to?
no..... its because its what he is singing, lyrics for the album didnt come out till way way later. 3deviations is just being a "typical american woman" :)
but besides that, what she said.... "What you read it was originally.." the words never changed... the "originally.." she is speaking of is exactally the words and the original words/lyrics are indeed "you're saturating me"
<3 threedeviations for contradictory statements (after all she <3'd to point out all my spelling mistakes) have a great day :) hope to see you on tour :)
edit- do you question the original? ever? why would you? why would you have to?
Sorry, I'm not dumb enough to be able to decipher wtf you were attempting to convey.. but it doesn't matter. You're a clown.
and a little fyi for you.. just because something is written in the "official lyrics" section... doesn't mean that's what is sung on the cd or necessarily in concert.
Dude, have you heard it live? Live he definetely says "saturating", imo.
But it's really inconsequential. The overall tone, mood and subject of the same remains the same regardless of three words changing around or not. This is music, not poetry - the feeling meant to be evoked from this song comes from the sound, not the words. For all we know, he's slurring some gibberish just to get the effect he wants from the overall sound. Hanging on to individual words and lines like this, especially ones that are clearly intended to be hard to make out, is an easy way to lose a concept of true meaning from music.
I don't have the patience to read this entire thread, but I've read most of it...
I've watched live versions on youtube and he definitely says a word between the "shut up"-part and the "saturating me"-part and to me it sounds like "you're" although he sometimes pronounces it as "Ya".
ThreeDeviations:
It seems to me you have a very paranoid and self-rightious type of personality. I'm not trying to rip on you or something. It's your choice if you choose to be like that, but to me it seems you're just being a dick (just my opinion, don't take that personally, cause I don't know you). If you really think Maynard is purposely posting wrong lyrics, well then I have one question; why the heck would he do that? It really doesn't make sense to me that he's posting wrong lyrics just to "fuck with us". Yeah, right, he's looking at his lyrics before he posts them and he's looking for a word that rhymes with "sense your enemy"...hmm, how about "saturating". I don't think he's willing to waste his time on something like this.
Furthermore, his pronounciation (I think that's really the issue here) is not very clear or correct sometimes. That's why people sometimes hear different words. But words are just a part of language. The thing Tool deals with most of the time are emotions and sometimes words and language just fall short of that and are not enough to express these emotions.
Now, I've read most posts of this thread, and will read the rest of it later, but it seems to me you're not dealing the right way with the criticism and the negative emotions that arise in you and I think that's why you keep feeling the need to post and post and post and post...you just keep posting because you think you're the only one who is right about this issue, (but...who are you to wave your finger?)
It's OK if you think your opinion is the only right one, but I think you should learn to ACCEPT that other people might think differently. Who are you to judge them?
__________________ Even as a solid rock is unshaken by the wind, so are the wise unshaken by praise or blame.
-Buddha
I don't know if this discussion has moved on to a more recent thread...frankly I don't care atm. I prefer to read all of the posts in chronological order and I just felt like posting a reaction to this one at this moment. I'm too tired to read on for now, guess I'll get some sleep now, but I'm willing to discuss this some more if you like to.
__________________ Even as a solid rock is unshaken by the wind, so are the wise unshaken by praise or blame.
-Buddha
