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Old 05-08-2006, 07:31 AM   #1
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11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

How can people think this song is about Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard?

Because they mention a cross here? Metaphor, people!

Because in Anima they say "f*** L. Ron Hubbard and all of his clones"? Well, it seems like they know how to insult Mr. Hubbard directly and to the point, without resorting to eight and half minutes of lyrics which have to be stretched to fit that interpretation.

Let's take a look at the lyrics! There must be clues to follow!


1) So long. We wish you well.

This is someone that Tool knew personally, that they're saying goodbye to, and that they have no real ill feelings toward. We learn later that its a male ("He had a voice/etc/I swallowed his facade/etc"). Paul D'Amour perhaps? It would make sense. This is the first album recorded without him. I know in 1996 I wanted some explanation from the band why this bassist that I adored and worshipped in 1993 when I listened to Undertow again and again and again, was no longer around. Perhaps this is that explanation.


2) You told us how you weren't afraid to die. Well then, so long.

Tool did not know Jesus personally. Jesus did not tell Tool anything. Let alone that he wasn't afraid to die. By the way I don't think this person they are addressing is literally dying - I think they are dead to Tool in the sense of "goodbye, so long, you're dead to me and you had it coming."


3) Don't cry. Or feel too down.

Tool is telling Jesus or Mr. Hubbard not to cry or feel too down? It makes no sense. It makes more sense that this is someone they've ended a relationship with, that they have learned no longer "feels the same" although at one point they "seemed to feel the same."


4) Not all martyrs see divinity. But at least you tried.

Tool if anything is CONTRASTING the person they are addressing with Jesus.


5) Ranting and pointing his finger.

Another dead give away they are not addressing Jesus. Did Jesus rant and point his finger when delivering his message?


6) At everything but his heart.

It seems the person Tool is addressing had the quality of finding fault in the world around him but ignoring his own faults. Again, the Jesus interpretation is off the mark.


7) No way to recall what it was you said to me. Like I care at all.

The person they are addressing is someone they knew or listened to at one point, but no longer listen to (regretting now that they "swallowed his facade"), have forgotten what they were ranting and pointing their finger about, and no longer care.


8) So loud. You sure could yell.

Someone they witnessed yelling, so another strike against the Jesus interpretation. Come on now, did Jesus yell? Of course not.


9) You took a stand on every little thing and so loud.

Its becoming clear why Tool is saying "so long" to this person. They are annoying as hell, making an issue out of every little thing.


10) I swallowed his facade cuz I'm so eager to identify with someone who seemed to feel the same.

Another great clue. This is someone that Tool used to have in their lives but no longer. One big giveaway that this song is not about L. Ron Hubbard. I think we can all agree that Tool are not former scientologists.


11) Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy?

This is a big line in the clue department, perhaps the biggest. First and foremost, the person they are addressing is alive and is hearing this song, so again it isn't Jesus or Mr. Hubbard, who died in 1986. And the person they are addressing seems to have perhaps heard this song before its release, understood it to be a eulogy or explanation of why Tool no longer could listen to all of his crap, and gave the band some reaction to it of surprise. Paul D'Amour perhaps?? Starting to come together, isn't it?


I don't see this line in the official lyrics section of this website, but in the first part of the song, I have always heard Maynard say, right before the big musical entree, "weird that I'll miss him." I am 99% sure of that lyric -- "weird that I'll miss him." This is an important line, in my view. Obviously there are plenty of clues that the song is about someone that Tool has disassociated themselves from. But the "weird that I'll miss him" line tells us also that there's really still no hard feelings (e.g. also, "we wish you well"). In other words, when Tool was around this guy, they couldn't wait to get rid of him, but now that he's gone, its "weird", but kinda miss the guy.

My long-standing interpretation: This song is about Paul D'Amour. It has to be. It all fits.

I look forward to hearing any of your comments, friends.

Last edited by tbrent21; 05-08-2006 at 07:18 PM.. Reason: Forgot to edit title
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Old 05-08-2006, 09:02 AM   #2
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Didn't Maynard claim this song was about Kurt Cobain?
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Old 05-08-2006, 09:49 AM   #3
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Maynard may have claimed that, but it's 99 percent likely he was joking.

As for your rant, different people have different opinions. Having a self-righteous attitude such as that isn't going to further anything.
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:16 AM   #4
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Hmmm Thats a good theory. I had never really thought about it being about paul. Timothy leary always came to my mind when I listened to this song, I dont know why but it made sense to me. But now that I've read your post the whole him hearing his eulogy doesnt really make sense to me now.
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:37 PM   #5
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Everybody has their right to their own interpretations but I still cannot see the explanation for the people who think the song is about Bill Hicks.
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:38 PM   #6
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by burning bridges
Everybody has their right to their own interpretations but I still cannot see the explanation for the people who think the song is about Bill Hicks.
True, that makes no fucking sense. Bill Hicks was their friend.
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:47 PM   #7
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeeyedhawk
True, that makes no fucking sense. Bill Hicks was their friend.
From the tool FAQ.

G27. The big question: Who is "Eulogy" about?
As with most Tool songs, the song is vague enough that can be interpreted to be anyone / anything. The song is primarily about the death of something which most probably turned out to be a fake. Regarding the rumor that the band is no longer on good terms with Henry Rollins; he has recently been heard talking positively about Tool, saying he was unaware of any bad blood. In Modern Drummer (10/93), Danny mentions L. Ron Hubbard as the object of the song. One way or another, though, the song has a message that can stand apart from any specific target; the interpretation is left to you, and the specifics aren't too important.
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Old 05-08-2006, 07:25 PM   #8
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

[QUOTE=imatoolhed]From the tool FAQ.

[G27. The big question: Who is "Eulogy" about?
As with most Tool songs, the song is vague enough that can be interpreted to be anyone / anything. The song is primarily about the death of something which most probably turned out to be a fake. ]



The person being addressed doesn't seem to be literally dead though. E.g. "We wish you well" and "Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy." These lines strongly suggest the person the song is addressed to is alive.

If you think about it, which makes more sense: that Tool is eulogizing a dead person who turned out to be a fake (so what?), or that Tool is saying goodbye from their lives of someone who "seemed to feel the same" but, as it turned out, they were mistaken, and it was time to say "so long."
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:34 AM   #9
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Two more clues that they are addressing Paul D'Amour. When Tool expresses regret that they were mistaken when they thought this person "seemed to feel the same" as they do, there is also a reference that they mistakenly thought this person was "prepared to lead the way." That SO FITS. Tool's theme of "standing above the crowd" and leading the way to enlightenment has been a theme of theirs from the beginning. From "Opiate" (the song) ("what you need is someone strong to guide you, like me") all the way through "Schism" and "Lateralus" ("bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication", "ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been"). The person they are addressing in "Eulogy" seemed to be prepared to stand above the crowd and lead the way with them, but it was just a facade. Thus, Paul, "so long."

I also see something in the "you must be crucified" line. I take that to mean that the song -- the scathing eulogy -- is the crucifixition referenced. In other words, for your sins and your lies, "goodbye" and for your sins and your lies, "we can't just let it go -- there has to be some closure. So we say, 'you must be crucified', so the whole world knows." Keep in mind this song was written in the aftermath of the D'Amour breakup, when tensions were probably high.

Last edited by tbrent21; 05-09-2006 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 05-10-2006, 01:40 AM   #10
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I know, when I write my poetry, I sometimes have multiple influences for the one poem and people who read it will say, "Who's that about?" Maybe, just maybe, it's not about someone but someones?

Just putting it out there.
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:25 AM   #11
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I agree that Paul seems to be the most likely, however if you add a bit of poetic lisence to the lyrics you will see that it still could be anyone.

I think Bill Hicks is an outside chance, with some tounge in cheek lyrics. Think about MJK being angry somewhat at Hick's passing when he died from a disease probably brought on by his past massive drug use. He is frustated that Hicks passed on so early when he could have accomplished a lot more in his life. And yes, the person can be dead if you assume that MJK believes the dead can still hear what is going on.

Anyway, outside chance.
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:56 PM   #12
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

After reading the lyrics once more in the first post, I've even more convinced that Eulogy is about Christ. I think Maynard isn't being sincere at all; he's mocking Christ in every possible form he can...

Quote:
4) Not all martyrs see divinity. But at least you tried.

Tool if anything is CONTRASTING the person they are addressing with Jesus.
With my pov, MJK is saying "Hey Jesus, you died, and thought you would go to heaven and reach divinity, but it didn't happen did it?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathological2
Members of Tool, including Maynard, have said this song is not about Jesus. If you relate it to Jesus, that's fine.
Could someone give me a link ti this? I'm quite interested =P

Last edited by troutp; 05-10-2006 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:57 PM   #13
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Sorry, but I kinda see that as a lazy interpretation, I mean the "not all martyrs" line, its just one line in the song. There's alot more to this song.

There definitely is the use of religious allegory in this song. "Get off your cross, we need the space to nail the next fool martyr", "to ascend you must die" etc. How it all fits together is a tough riddle. But the "ranting" and "you sure could yell" stuff, if its about Jesus and its just being sarcastic, its kinda dumb sarcasm. Tool is anything but dumb. I think we're dealing with someone who really did yell and rant and point their finger and piss them off.

On the comment earlier that someone sees an outside chance this was addressed to Bill Hicks -- so many reasons this can't be about Bill Hicks, where do you start. But number one being, "no way to recall what it was you said to me, like I care at all." Tool desperately wants us to remember Bill Hicks' message (Hicks originated the concept of the 'third eye' not Tool). The last thing they would say about him is "what the fuck it was you were ranting about, I have no idea nor do I really give a shit to remember."

Last edited by tbrent21; 05-11-2006 at 03:23 AM..
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:16 AM   #14
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Yes but any interpretation has its problems. Okay so it is about Paul? Then wtf is with all the "you said all this time that you would die for me". That doesn't really fit, unless Paul D'Armour is this full on guy who tells members of his band how much he would die for them... does that fit?

Quote:
10) I swallowed his facade cuz I'm so eager to identify with someone who seemed to feel the same.

Another great clue. This is someone that Tool used to have in their lives but no longer.
See but you are assuming that MJK is singing from his experience, not from a persona. Example is the song vicarious, does MJK really sit in front of the TV like a junkie? No, he is singing from a persona. Much of this song can be taken that way.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:44 AM   #15
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I agree with you completely, that any interpretation has some problems. There are specific parts that no one but Tool themselves could fully explain. For example, in my Paul D'Amour interpretation, is "the next fool martyr" Justin? And, I really don't know what they are talking about when they say "don't you step out of line!" But, enough of the rest works for me that's how I see the song. I don't see anything that directly contradicts my theory, I guess.
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:43 PM   #16
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrent21
Sorry, but I kinda see that as a lazy interpretation, I mean the "not all martyrs" line, its just one line in the song. There's alot more to this song.

There definitely is the use of religious allegory in this song. "Get off your cross, we need the space to nail the next fool martyr", "to ascend you must die" etc. How it all fits together is a tough riddle. But the "ranting" and "you sure could yell" stuff, if its about Jesus and its just being sarcastic, its kinda dumb sarcasm. Tool is anything but dumb. I think we're dealing with someone who really did yell and rant and point their finger and piss them off.

On the comment earlier that someone sees an outside chance this was addressed to Bill Hicks -- so many reasons this can't be about Bill Hicks, where do you start. But number one being, "no way to recall what it was you said to me, like I care at all." Tool desperately wants us to remember Bill Hicks' message (Hicks originated the concept of the 'third eye' not Tool). The last thing they would say about him is "what the fuck it was you were ranting about, I have no idea nor do I really give a shit to remember."

I think as the other guy said that it was written with the intent to not place the theme to anyone in paeticular. However, I do disagree with some comments as to how this one line means it HAS to be this guy. Just because he references "get off your fucking cross, we need more fucking space...to nail the next fool martyr" or "not all martyrs see divinity" doesn't necessarily mean it's Christ. And you're MOST DEFINATELY WRONG that Bill Hicks originated the "third eye" theory...that sybolism has been around aeons before his time. I agree the line "no way to recall, what it was that you had said to me" makes sense that it was somebody they personally knew however, it very well could have just been in context of any well known phrase or theology. Like if you were familiar with the bible, he could've been generally speaking of what jesus says in the bible...catch my drift? All in all, i may well have been written about somebody in particular but, I think the most likely person actually would be L. Ron Hubbard "and his clones". Maynard did not like him very much or his beliefs that people followed blindly just like the christian faith and jesus. He was thought of as a god practically and died wihthin his cause but as Maynard feels, he had a lot of nothing to say. He's being cynical when he says "no way to recall what you had said..." he's just saying yeah I heard you and it didn't mean shit so I didn't even retain it, oh well I already forgot. Anyways, that's my take and until the band gives a solid response I appreciate the song being open ended as to apply it to anybody who foolishy follows blindly into a path with no substance and is willing to die for their cause.
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Old 05-11-2006, 06:27 PM   #17
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Also someone this thread (http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?p...40#post1043340) confirmed my belief that D'Armour contributed to songwriting for Eulogy. I also remember in the first interview Tool did before Laturalus came out MJK said that because of his work with APC Laturalus was the first album to have songs written musically before the lyrics were layed. A little tenuous, perhaps, but this would suggest that Paul was around after MJK had written the song.
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Old 05-14-2006, 06:18 PM   #18
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrent21
My long-standing interpretation: This song is about Paul D'Amour. It has to be. It all fits.
You've made a glaring omission my friend...

"we need the fucking space
to nail the next fool martyr"

So they are calling their current bassist a fool martyr?

They plan to martyr him in some way?

Got my doubts...

Also disagree with your premise that the subject must still be alive. TooL speak to the dead fairly often in their songs.

You've made some sloppy logical conclusions based on very loose evidence here.

Beware of trying to make the puzzle pieces fit how you think they should go. Lay them out and the picture will be revealed...but you've got to lay them all!
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Old 05-14-2006, 06:44 PM   #19
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I did admit in my last post that the one part that perhaps made my theory less likely was the "next fool martyr" line.

Hey, ease off though, if I present a theory of what this song is about that comes within one measly line of making sense, it deserves a little bit of kudos IMHO. The guys that are off base are those who just follow what they understood Maynard to say about the song in an interview, or just read the "Tool FAQ" or whatever the hell that is, rather than examine the lyrics themselves.
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Old 05-14-2006, 07:23 PM   #20
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by sp4cem0nkey
Didn't Maynard claim this song was about Kurt Cobain?
That's bullshit
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Old 05-14-2006, 09:34 PM   #21
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrent21
I did admit in my last post that the one part that perhaps made my theory less likely was the "next fool martyr" line.

Hey, ease off though, if I present a theory of what this song is about that comes within one measly line of making sense, it deserves a little bit of kudos IMHO. The guys that are off base are those who just follow what they understood Maynard to say about the song in an interview, or just read the "Tool FAQ" or whatever the hell that is, rather than examine the lyrics themselves.
No probs big guy.

Just trying to keep you honest :)

...and in any equation (and all logical arguments are based on equations) "one measly line" can make a massive difference. Was a good post - just not very thorough.

And I'm feeling argumentative ;)
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:44 AM   #22
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Well anything's possible, including that Justin is the next fool martyr that is referred to. The way I thought of it this morning kinda fits -- to become a talented a band as TOOL has become, they certainly probably have had to sacrifice alot.

I mean was Picasso well-rounded? Probably not. He sacrificed to become what he became.

So Justin, welcome aboard, fool. You will gain alot, but who you were before this, well, its gone.

This could be the reference to martyrdom. What have they given up to dedicate themselves to their craft? We know from their level of musicianship that they've reached new heights. I'm sure they sacrificed a hell of a lot for their cause. And part of their cause being the bringing of a kind of consistent philosophical message to their listeners. Therefore its not a terrible stretch to think of that as akin to martyrdom as often referred to in the religious context.
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:32 AM   #23
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrent21
Well anything's possible, including that Justin is the next fool martyr that is referred to. The way I thought of it this morning kinda fits -- to become a talented a band as TOOL has become, they certainly probably have had to sacrifice alot.

I mean was Picasso well-rounded? Probably not. He sacrificed to become what he became.

So Justin, welcome aboard, fool. You will gain alot, but who you were before this, well, its gone.

This could be the reference to martyrdom. What have they given up to dedicate themselves to their craft? We know from their level of musicianship that they've reached new heights. I'm sure they sacrificed a hell of a lot for their cause. And part of their cause being the bringing of a kind of consistent philosophical message to their listeners. Therefore its not a terrible stretch to think of that as akin to martyrdom as often referred to in the religious context.
LMAO!! You gotta' be kiddin' me
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:55 PM   #24
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Tool performed this song with Paul D'amour...

Eulogy: "this song is about martyrs" so yeah i do think this song COULD be aboutHubbard now that i think about it, but for so many years i tried to tie this song down to have one specific target (bill hicks, hubbard, even kobain) but now i believe this song is just about anyone in general who uses martyrdrom(osama, etc) as a weapon, or a way to brainwash people.
"i swallowed his facade cuz im so eager to identify with someone above the crowd, someone prepared to lead the way"
so mjk is also targeting weak minded people as well...

i mean for so long i heard/thought this song(Eulogy) was about Bill Hicks, but it never sat well with me b/c i thought this song was negative, and mjks and bills relationship was deffinatley not..
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:10 PM   #25
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrent21
Well anything's possible, including that Justin is the next fool martyr that is referred to. The way I thought of it this morning kinda fits -- to become a talented a band as TOOL has become, they certainly probably have had to sacrifice alot.

I mean was Picasso well-rounded? Probably not. He sacrificed to become what he became.

So Justin, welcome aboard, fool. You will gain alot, but who you were before this, well, its gone.

This could be the reference to martyrdom. What have they given up to dedicate themselves to their craft? We know from their level of musicianship that they've reached new heights. I'm sure they sacrificed a hell of a lot for their cause. And part of their cause being the bringing of a kind of consistent philosophical message to their listeners. Therefore its not a terrible stretch to think of that as akin to martyrdom as often referred to in the religious context.

Now THAT is a better argument!

Nice post :)
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Old 05-15-2006, 05:04 PM   #26
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

One thing is true i must agree that it is not about Jesus. It may just be a mystery for us.

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Old 05-16-2006, 08:06 AM   #27
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I agree, there is no way this song is about Jesus. If anything I think this song actually makes Jesus out to be legitimate compared to the person they are describing. On many levels they mock their subject for pretending to be like Jesus when they truly are not. This is why the Hubbard comparison works so well. Also I do not think that Tool has to know the person individually just because they say "So long, wish you well." First thing I'll say when Bush leaves office is "Later pal, it was good knowing you. (Asshole)" Even though I have never been within 1,000 feet of the man.

Also it is well known that there is no bad blood between Tool and D'Amour. Based upon that, I find this argument to be in the same category of the Bill Hicks argument. I think this song is shedding way too much of a negative light for it to represent someone they were never on bad terms with.

Ultimately I do think there are aspects to this song that were influenced by many different people. I think L. Ron is the closest match, but I don't think this song has to be related to just one person.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:01 AM   #28
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

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Originally Posted by PhillyJoe
I agree, there is no way this song is about Jesus. If anything I think this song actually makes Jesus out to be legitimate compared to the person they are describing. On many levels they mock their subject for pretending to be like Jesus when they truly are not. This is why the Hubbard comparison works so well. Also I do not think that Tool has to know the person individually just because they say "So long, wish you well." First thing I'll say when Bush leaves office is "Later pal, it was good knowing you. (Asshole)" Even though I have never been within 1,000 feet of the man.

Also it is well known that there is no bad blood between Tool and D'Amour. Based upon that, I find this argument to be in the same category of the Bill Hicks argument. I think this song is shedding way too much of a negative light for it to represent someone they were never on bad terms with.

Ultimately I do think there are aspects to this song that were influenced by many different people. I think L. Ron is the closest match, but I don't think this song has to be related to just one person.

Cool - thanks for the info. It still strikes me as odd that after flat-out saying "fuck L. Ron Hubbard" in "AEnima" the song, why go on for eight and a half minutes crypically about him here to get the same point across. But the other thing is that they seem to be lamenting that at one pont the target "seemed to feel the same" and Tool was eager to identify with them. Again, this really rules out Hubbard, doesn't it? Surely Tool are not former scientologists. I can't see a way around that one.

As for D'Amour, I said all along I made the interpretation just on guesswork and that the lyrics seem to be about disassociating themselves from someone who at one point "seemed to feel the same", but they concluded no longer did. I will admit I don't know the first damn thing about their relationship with D'Amour. Just seemed like a theory worth mentioning, given among other clues, the timing of the album right after the split and the "why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy" line seeming to indicate to me that the target is alive and would have appeared to have heard this song and gave the band some kind of reaction.

As for whether D'Amour had any songwriting credit for this song, which someone suggested, I know they played "Stinkfist" alot while touring pre-AEnima. But I don't recall them ever playing this song while D'Amour was still in the band. Perhaps there's a set list out there that will prove or disprove this, but who knows.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:02 AM   #29
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Just how in hell could L. Ron Hubbard be seen as a martyr?
(If you're a scientologist, don't bother answering!)

The truth according to those of us who actually ARE capable of thinking for ourselves
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:22 AM   #30
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

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Originally Posted by tbrent21
Cool - thanks for the info. It still strikes me as odd that after flat-out saying "fuck L. Ron Hubbard" in "AEnima" the song, why go on for eight and a half minutes crypically about him here to get the same point across. But the other thing is that they seem to be lamenting that at one pont the target "seemed to feel the same" and Tool was eager to identify with them. Again, this really rules out Hubbard, doesn't it? Surely Tool are not former scientologists. I can't see a way around that one.

As for D'Amour, I said all along I made the interpretation just on guesswork and that the lyrics seem to be about disassociating themselves from someone who at one point "seemed to feel the same", but they concluded no longer did. I will admit I don't know the first damn thing about their relationship with D'Amour. Just seemed like a theory worth mentioning, given among other clues, the timing of the album right after the split and the "why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy" line seeming to indicate to me that the target is alive and would have appeared to have heard this song and gave the band some kind of reaction.

As for whether D'Amour had any songwriting credit for this song, which someone suggested, I know they played "Stinkfist" alot while touring pre-AEnima. But I don't recall them ever playing this song while D'Amour was still in the band. Perhaps there's a set list out there that will prove or disprove this, but who knows.
When Tool says "someone who seems to feel the same" I think they are describing the people who follow someone like an L. Ron Hubbard. Not so much that they ever believed anything Hubbard ever said, Let's look at the lyrics in that part:

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

I think Tool is saying that there are so many "sheep" out there who are prepared to listen to anyone who gets in front of them and leads them regardless of what they are saying. As long as they identify with the person in some ways, they will follow that leader regardless of how ridiculous he is or sounds. This is how someone like L. Ron "tricks" people into following him. Tool's response is "At least Jesus had the cojones to die for his followers, why don't you go do the same?"

BTW, don't get me wrong, I whole-heartedly respect your opinion and I think it brings a lot to the table and a point of view on this song I hadn't thought about. I thank you for the enlightenment.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:39 AM   #31
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patroels
Just how in hell could L. Ron Hubbard be seen as a martyr?
(If you're a scientologist, don't bother answering!)

The truth according to those of us who actually ARE capable of thinking for ourselves
If in fact the person in question is L Ron Hubbard, then Hubbard would be looked at as a martyr if he follows through with Tool's request to die for his people.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:03 PM   #32
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

this song is about martyrs....since when was paul d'amour a martyr
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:43 AM   #33
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

how strange that this is being discussed. i thought it was rather generally agreed upon that this song is about dead comedian, bill hicks.
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Old 05-17-2006, 12:07 PM   #34
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

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Originally Posted by walking_iris
how strange that this is being discussed. i thought it was rather generally agreed upon that this song is about dead comedian, bill hicks.

"No way to recall what it was you said to me. Like I care at all."

This to me is the clincher that there's no way that they could be talking about Hicks. They want us to remember Hicks' ideology. The last thing they would say about him is "who cares whatever it was you were saying?"
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:41 PM   #35
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Maybe it's about Brittany Spears...I mean, if you REALLY think about it, it makes perfect sense
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Old 05-19-2006, 06:24 AM   #36
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

I thought it was about Brittany, but "I swallowed his facade" just doesn't work for that. Excellent try, though...
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:32 AM   #37
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

Maybe what Maynard was thinking of was all of us and how we'd all be discussing it?

(also, could be about Hicks, although Maynard has obvious respect for him, he might also like to make the point that his thoughts and beliefs don't stem from one man, and he is showing how one should be critical of anything)

But, really i think it's a general song about his various experiences of people who have pissed him off
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:41 PM   #38
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

The bible says that the antichrist will be the most popular and prized person on the face of the earth after the rapture... thats what the discovery channel said~ peace out!
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:21 PM   #39
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

To the original poster:

Is it just me or did you miss the sarcasm behind most of the lyrics? The song doesn't imply a personal relationship with anyone. So many tool songs are so open ended, why is everyone so obsessed with finding a specific person for this song? Give it up.

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Old 05-22-2006, 10:09 PM   #40
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Re: 11 Reasons Why Eulogy Cannot Be About Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard

seeing as the members of TOOL are multi-dimensional, i.e. w/ interests laying outside of this particular band/business project, perhaps the "person" addressed in eulogy is not someone you would know about...doesn't that just kill you, you DIEHARD?
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