I have one thing to say Think for your self. Tool mearly attacks dogma and blind folowing. I think the point behind all this is to find your own path to god. That includes making mistakes or walking a dark path for some time. Thats why we are here to make mistakes and learn from them. As for the occult, the univers is a machine, and sacred geometry helps explain how that machine works, and yes sometime there are parts of a machine you shouldnt fuck with. That doesnt mean you cant learn from it though. The problem I have, and im thinking the band has similar ideas, is that organized religion tends to dictate interpretation to the mases, and that just doesnt work, every one isnt the same every one has a different point of view, no mater what religion. Its up to the individual to figure out there own reason for being alive and how to reconect to god.

I understand both sides of this post,which i guess is the point after all...to take the rough with the smooth

Nice concise summation. I think "Tool" could care fucking less about "religion". You are right about the individual having a unique set of beliefs , which are not dictated to you but experienced. Spirituality, and the laws that "shape"our realities do not fall in the realm of "religion". But of course we have complete power to change in the moment. Rewrite the programming if YOU WILL.

tool and the occult are like that. and by that i mean if you overlap your middle finger over your index finger and hold it. kind of up so people can see it.

This thread..again?

I like how christians seem to think that they have the copyright on 'God'.

IMHO : Tool/MJK are RELIGIOUS but not like the Christian way of believing. Just because someone refers to a higher being as 'God' doesn't imply that they're Christian! My guess (based on the lyrical content of like 90% of all Tool songs) is that the band as a whole does what every sane thinking person does : they made up their OWN religion, based on what they believe to be 'right' or 'true'. Read some old school Timothy Leary, he explains this in great detail.

If everyone would aknowledge (sp?) this fact, people could finally stop killin' eachother.

No, your totally wrong. I usually wouldn't say a thing like that, but since you only wrote one sentence that is all botched together and cannot back up your statement, I think I shall help you out.

- "Acknowledge"

-There are people who are brought up by their parents or are influenced by others that there is:
- No "God"
- Only one way to live, and become gangsters or part of a mob.
- No way to have fun in life.
- Only excitement through killing others.

Criminals are criminals for a reason. They do the wrong thing, most usually more than once.

I could go on and on and on about this subject, but you all get the point.

-R.F.

john wayne gaycee killed 33 people, 1 for every year in the life of Christ! now isn't that interesting?

what was your point?

only godless people kill?

or that people without a god's rules to adhere to generally run amock and kill at will?

either direction is ridiculously ignorant.

it is obvious that people that cling to a religious belief and that rely on external sources of spirituality for power or upliftment are prone to killing, ideological warfare, genocide, and all sorts of unspeakable crimes that can be inflicted on humanity or the earth. like take for instance republicans and evangelists getting caught talking to little boys trying to make sexy-time. isn't it obvious that when a religion sets up a taboo, it's followers are apt to explore it and exploit their position as an opponent of it?

my point: religion must be destroyed.

people should not put their beliefs on others.

god is love. god is the ever present force of creation in the universe. god is not something to be worshiped out of pity, or unworthiness. it's not something you can gain favor with by putting money in a dish in a builing dedicated to it (to a lie.)

jesus is not the savior of the human race. you have all been duped into believing you can make all the mistakes and fuck up as much as you want of the future, and the future of your children and grandchildren, and everything will be ok because JESUS is going to save us! Jesus was killed as an inside job, and his brother James was publicly crucified and made a spectacle of. Jesus was a black hermaphrodite who was a very special and spiritual person, sent to us for a reason, but it was not deification. he never meant or aspired to be the deity 'Jesus.' he was assassinated and buried in a shallow grave, so when they rolled aside the rock from the tomb he was gone.. because he was never there!

When you've got people believing in a lie, you've gottem by the balls!

Have you ever the "all-time" best seller THE BIBLE? If you have, you obviously skipped over the part where Jesus resurrects back to Earth 3 days later, staying for 40 days until he departed once again. He WAS there. You just never knew about it... He let the blind "see" once again. He saved women from unborn children. He was on this earth for a reason.

BTW: This "religious" topic has nooooooooooooothing to do with TOOL.

Maynard and Co. make fun of religion because they have no part in it. They believe what they want to believe, and don't care about other's beliefs.

-R.F.

Really you have got to give us the source on this one....

then why in the world do you listen to tool and why are you at these boards?

Well, I've read the Bible. And Alice in wonderland. But you'll never find me chasing rabbits down the rabbithole. Not while I'm sober at least.

Tool don't hate Christians per se, they just hate holier than thou hippocrites who try to shove their world view down everyone else's throats--oh wait, that is Christianity. Yeah, they definitely hate Christians

Are you fucking retarded?

i like this forum, its like a neat little example of all the extreme fuckers in the world that cause problems on the religious topics... "god is real, no doubt, your loss for missin out" "god isnt real, no doubt, and your fucking arrogance in beleiveing that your going to eternal paradise makes me wanna yell at you incesently over the internet"... interestingly, all the comments from those floating somewhere in between tend to be ignored and overlooked by those intent on arguein the holy argument.

No ones beleifs are more valid or usefull then others. Religion has its cons (eg. control related) and its pros (eg. the hope, comfort, and strength it gives people). Which way the scale tips is entirely up to you.

A nice example of the problem with these arguments... those of you who claim All christians hold the same upsemself better than others our god is the only good one, is as fucking stupid as those christians who do do that, because your conforming to an extreme anti-christian beleif as bad as those who you critisize... i find it a nice hypocracy

anyway, even in set religions, there are enormous differences between most peoples beleifs, some peoples stereotypicalisation (dat a pwopa word tingy?) of everyone holding certain religious beliefs is just plain ignorant... cmon, you guys are tool fans... arent we all meant to be pretenteous and proud, cuz we aint as ignorant as the masses?

People need to accept that each will have his own beleifs. And while there are those who's beleifs hurt others... they are actually a nice MINority. they may be a minority that gains prestiege in there respective religions, but should just be something u recognize when you contemplate the actions of a 'whole' religion.

meh, ya caught me commin down from a nice high, so im a bit bitchy, and certainly cant be fucked to read through and edit that ^^^ and check it makes sense and plug holes inaverdently left, so id ask all you extremely open minded people (i love the paradox that some manage to be so close minded in there openmindedness, in that they wont explore anything that appears at least on the surface to be close minded) to cut me some slack... and if ya dont, ill fight ya about it when sober :)

- I never said I cared about what TOOL thought of my beliefs. I listen to them because of the way they play their music.
-------------------------------------------------------

- I do not believe he is retarded. I believe he is an uneducated person trying to act educated on religion. Religion is a very "scary" subject, if you will, to speak about, just like politics, outside of one's family or church if on the matter of religion.

- I love how he spells hypocrites... it's so cool. ( "hippocrites!" )

-R.F.

No. I am retarded. I did some research and found that Maynard really does love Jesus. Check out the Puscifer myspace page. Sorry about the spelling, I know that mistakes like that are pretty rare around here. "Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow"