Maybe so, but we both know which one is the better of those two bands.

Okay.

asswell?

Isn't it just possible that he told them that the last track is just a distorted sample from the 10,000 days track and they misunderstood what he was saying??? technical jargon gone misunderstood? something like that?

This is just an idea, but why start all the songs at the same time?

Wings Part 1 | Wings Part 2
_______Viginti Tres_______

I may not have time to try this, but my idea would be to play Wings 1 and 2 back to back. The next part will require some simple math. Divide the length of Viginti in half and start Viginti @ Wings Part 1 - (Viginti / 2).

At the very least, someone can have some fun trying it out.

I tried it and it is rocking to my ears. Here is the set up:

Play Wings 1 and 2 back to back.
When Wings hits the 3:40 mark (right as Maynard's singing pauses) kick in the Viginti Tres.

Sit back and enjoy the show.

It's not a new song, but it deffinately adds a layer of depth to an already rich soundscape.

Enjoy
-Nathan

of course, it could just be that vigniti would sync with anything. Still it sounds cool to my ears.

ähhm here

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=64185


"this conversation... is over!"

no, the overlapping thing is real. i believe this for three reasons:

1) my brother is a cryptologic technician. he deals in codes everyday. a T1 line has something like 52 different 'nodes' exchanging information. during encryption, it all seems to be random and unrelated, however 2 or more nodes blend together create a message. what you look for is concurrent transitions. he saw those immediately when listening to these tracks. now he is also a huge pragmatist. he constantly makes fun of me and my crazy theories on everything, tool included. so for him to confirm this carries a lot of weight in my head.. he would normally be much more likely to denounce it...even happy to as it would make me mad (which he enjoys doing, the bastard).

2) this is the fun part. everyone is always wondering what virginiti tres means and why they put it there. virginiti tres as we know is 23 in latin. now, anyone who has played with audacity or something similar trying to match these three tracks up knows you have to fool with it to get it just right. what many have not noticed is that tool left us a clue. at the end of both wings songs, the ending begins with a heavy distorted riff. on 10,000 days, this occurs at 9:14. well, 9 + 14 = 23. only when you line up wings pt. 2 with pt. 1 at 9:14 does it come out correctly. and it fits with the theme of the album. 2 become 1. with the steroscopic imagery, at first look the pictures are blurry, much like if you line up virginiti and immediately follow with wings pt. 1. it sounds just a little off. you have to fine tune your eyesight, or the music, to see the 2 pictures become one. its extremely clever on tools part.

3) blair mentioned this once in the news. he was replying to a fan asking about it. he said something along the lines of 'well, either it was intentional or a strange coincidence.' considering he outright said how silly the spiral theory of lateralus was, this sounds like a confirmation to me.

plz tell me my sarcasm moniter should be bleepin...

:P

If it works so well, can we have an mp3 of a version that doesnt sound complete gash?

sure, if you have somewhere i can upload it.

better yet, download audacity and try it out yourself. its a free download and very simple to use.

I can't do it myself. As a doubter, my attempt is already undermined. I don't think it does work, from the attempts I've heard. The true test is for someone to make a version that they think is good enough to prove it's deliberate, because that should, be default, be enough for me?

You can upload it at www.yousendit.com

I'm not sure it was intended. That's reading a little deep. I have heard it and certain parts work startlingly well together, but I think it's sheer concidence. You write similar music to fit a theme of an album, and you are going to get some ideas that overlap.

This thread is bullshit. The songs aren't meant to go on top of each other in any way shape or form, and Adam never said such a thing.

adam, on a podcast that i heard, when asked about the wings overlap, said that he hasn't even heard them being played together and it is complete unitentional and that he told a girl who wrote to him on his myspace (saying she figured out that lateralus was written to the passion of the christ) that she was right and that was true...even though lateralus was released before passion of the christ...

sorry jimmeny i forgot about this thread, i'll put the track up tonight before i go out.

thirdeye, its not reading entirely deep. the flaming lips did the same thing, but instead of two or three songs they made 4 complete albums meant to be played at the same time (talk about overkill!). i never heard it myself but supposedly it didn't come out so well. go figure!

there are some other examples of bands doing this, but i forgot who they were. plus, its not necessarily overlapping - the idea is to pan 10,000 days to the left speaker and virgini/pt. 2 to the right speaker. thats how you get the cool echoing effect at the end of the song.

Well with the Flaming Lips thing, it needs to be four complete stereo systems played in unison, not a two channel downmix. So if this is to be true, you'd need a quadrophonic system.

Which is great and all, and certainly possible but uh...the only problem is that it sounds like shit, no matter which way you slice it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78008/_s...22211_tool.mp3

ok, here is the song. you may choose to believe it was intentional, or you may not. you may think its a coincidence.. i did listen to the podcast in this thread but i dunno... on one hand i can attribute it to my own hyperactive imagination, but on the other hand there are too many synchronicities. tool enjoys messing with their fans, but i did get a sense that adam wasn't bullshitting. so the jury is out for me. <shrug> it doesn't matter. either way, it was so much fun to listen to and dissect, so i could care less if it was or wasn't.

now please note that i am not christian. but that doesn't mean i cannot appreciate the imagery and myth of the christian religions, much of which this album is based on. not to do so would be hypocritical and i would be exactly what i hate.

i wrote a companion to the song below to illustrate why i believe its intentional.


----


it starts out with 10,000 days in the left channel, virgini tres in right.i see the right channel as a heartbeat. the last remaining heartbeats of judith. maynard is singing, perhaps at her bedside, but in a negative place. anyone who has lost their mother knows this pain, this despair and this longing. its a heart wrenching place to be in.

so, on the left we have maynard thinking, and the right we have judith dying.


at 2:16, on the right, we get this sound of a tunnel. a sound of movement. it starts to develop as maynard sings back in at 2:28. a concurrent transition. this sound of movement is judith moving through the void on her way to heaven.

at 3:12 - "this little light of mine a gift you passed on to me, i'm gonna let it shine to GUIDE YOU on your way, your way home.

3:24 - just as he finishes singing "home" we get that odd voice on the right. another concurrent transition. perhaps this voice is maynards light guiding her through the void?

4:04 - another concurrent transition as the movement fades

4:15 - she is high up now. he only prays that the lord knows when to lift her out of this void, as she is almost there. (the movement has ceased, she is almost there, hence the silence)

5:00 - first notes of wings 2 come in the left. these notes, as opposed to pt 1, are almost heavenly. very light, positive, and beautiful. judith is approaching the gates.

5:10 - maynard sings to her as she is at the gates to demand her wings.

6:11 - another concurrent transition. right after maynard sings lowly "give me my", we hear pt. 1 kick in. judith is now in heaven getting her wings, hence the beautiful and blissful guitar picking by adam.


now here we have a dualty. when you lose someone as close to you as your mother, you first go through a very negative and vindictive phase as it is happening. for maynard its the lyrics for 10,000 days. now as pt. 1 plays in the right side (brain), the compassionate side, he is up in heaven with judith singing to her. after we lose that someone, we now reflect on our relationship and express our gratitude. this is what pt. 1 is doing. but at the same time, there is still that negativity and despair on the left side (brain), the logical side.


6:28 - another transition. the guitar quiets on the left, and very softly maynard begins singing on the right. you have to strain to hear it, but its there.

7:23 - another transition. on the right, maynard sings "a passionate spirit." on the left, maynard softly re-sings "give me my..." recalling that intense passion maynard told her to have by telling his mom to demand his wings from the holy trinity. to demand your wings? thats a powerful, passionate notion.

8:21 - concurrent transition. this part matches up well, especially with danny and maynard. it sounds like maynard is singing along to the left side as well as the right.

~8:38 - maynard on the right sings "what have i done to be worthy?" on the left, maynard sings about how he is set in his ways and arrogance, the way he tosses the burden of proof upon non-believers. for these reasons he believes he isn't worthy, because he is doing exactly what he hates about the 'collective judas.' most religious people put the burden of proof of those who don't believe what they do. they don't have to prove the existence of god to us - we have to prove he doesn't exist to them. and for this weakness maynard does NOT feel worthy to be a 'son to an angel.' its hypocritical.

9:14 - this is where it gets REALLY good. this is where the 'two become one', where it all comes together. i cannot imagine how these two match up. even the small doubt i do have is wiped out by the time. 9:14 - 9 + 14 = 23. if this is coincidence, i am going to give up all my possessions, join the abbey of thelema, and do everything aleister crowley had said.

i love how they join, then seperate again. the echoing effect of the lyrics and tremolo are amazing. so very well done. the lyrics are still somewhat of a enigma to me. i feel like its some sort of riddle. whether it is or not, its something that i will joyfully ponder for years to come.

11:00 - one more concurrent transition. RIGHT after the left fades out bass drum is hit one last time.

enjoy.

Well done, sir. This is not only the first convincing sync I've heard, but the only one I've seen with accompanying written transcription.

First I have to say...yes, there are a lot of kickass parts. WAY more than I ever heard before (probably because you pointed them out with the time).

I'll get the negatives out of the way:

-There are a lot of mushy parts that just seem like blasadhdsgagsg and are nothing. Even some of the things you listed are kind of...ehhh...not so musical. I was listening on headphones which let me hear the channels very seperated and very clearly and it sounded like garbage in some places.
-Viginti Tres. Man, this song fucking blows.
-dynamic range. BAH!!!!! when part one starts, it's way too fucking loud! The quiet parts aren't much quieter than the loud parts, especially in this mix where the quiet parts add together.
-The downmix. Ech, the downmix (when you hear each channel alone) sounds horrible. That's not your fault, of course. You're downmixing a downmix. What would be REALLY cool would be if someone were to take the four channels of this and make a 5.1 mix out of this--and actually remixed the channels. For example, at that 7:23 moment, the soft vocals would surround you and the main vocals would be in the middle. And the parts where it's two songs doing their own thing, perhaps one in the front and one in the back? or panned to the side, but using stereo? If I actually knew how to work a 5.1 making program, I'd so do this. I love 5.1.

but the pros...

-there are some legimately cool moments. of course, the 9:14 moment, where everyone says "OMG 9 + 14 = 23 AND DA SAM3 S0UNDZ!!" which i do admit is pretty cool...but the echoes voices after that and lots of sprinkled effects up until and after that point made me giggle in a good way.
-your analysis. I like your interpretation. I don't like the meaning of this song and I'm pretty disappointed in the lyrical content of most of this song (compared to other Maynard masterpieces), but you gave a good analysis and I definitely can get an interesting sense of where Maynard was going with this.

I have to say, this has tipped the scales in the favor of me saying that this is real. I wonder if we'll ever know the truth? Perhaps an "official" remix? I can only dream, just like I dream daily about a 5.1 mix of this album showing up...

Thank you very much Mr. Schwaller, your dedication and hard work is impressive and appreciated.

Wether it is on purpose doesn't matter to me. I think it's cool that something like this can even be attempted, and sound good, which is more important. I'd have to say your mix is preferable to the other I remember hearing.

Yeah I heard a couple and they sucked--the big climax didn't even match!

first off, thank you for the kind words.

so far as the mushy parts, IMHO you can't expect perfection. to make 2 great songs and a unique song merge together is quite a task, and i don't think total perfection could be achieved. they are human after all! ;-)

you should download audacity and import virgini tres on its own. seeing it in that form is at the very least interesting, and to the curious eye inspiring.

i agree about the dynamic range. i didn't do this mix myself, but i agree it seems the volumes are not ideal.

and i agree - mastered correctly in 5.1 it would sound much better. but, that would kind of lead us away from the idea it was intentional, no?

ahh yes, the truth. my only hope is MJK or anyone would write a tell-all book after they are done writing and performing.

one could hope anyway. but i do question if its just my pride wanting it, or if want to keep it all housed in my imagination.

Two songs based around the same riff? How is it not possible to make two songs that are in time? On the one hand, you try and say Tool are so clever for writing two songs that should be played together, but on the other hand you say they can't get something in time?

I think it's rubbish. None of it works apart from the one bit that's syncd up perfectly. Nothing before or after that matches at all. Viginti Tres is just ambience, you could put it over anything and it would pretty much work.

The two parts of 10,000 Days are based around the same riff. They are two parts of the same song, of course they sound similar when you put them together.

If Tool meant it, I don't think it would be so half assed. Oh wait, 10,000 Days is the REAL album..

It's not half-assed. There are plenty of parts that go together very well. There's a lot of mush too.

The point is, there are a lot of interesting parts other than the main obvious one. Which, at the very least, makes an interesting listen.

This is still the worst Tool song ever, though.

My cousin got backstage (and isn't a fan) aswell, and Danny told him that if you have to cdrom players in your pc, "try putting Aenima in your first and 10Kd in your other. And while simultaniously play them, they form a completely other album called "15000 puppets on a stick".

Check that shit out! Its really cool!

....................no. just no.

well, it is so

http://www.wmmr.com/upload/jaxon/tooladamjonespart1.mp3
3/4 of way through

\thread

You must have needed subtitles to understand Lost Keys then...

i hate you, I had this: http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=67258 in my copy tab waiting to be pasted here..

Yeah, I came on TDN to check out how other people were interpreting it and I was like, "so THAT'S what they're saying??"

If I ever head down to your neck of the woods, I'm gonna have to bring a translator.