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El Shaggy's Avatar El Shaggy
09-06-2007, 05:17 PM

Thats an excellent example piece there Andorion.

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Old 09-06-2007, 05:17 PM   #161
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Thats an excellent example piece there Andorion.

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dirtyepic's Avatar dirtyepic
09-07-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andorion View Post
Sorry to revive this old thread, but take a look and a listen at this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

This is what hushypushy was talking about all along.
he posted this video sometime back
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:48 AM   #162
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andorion View Post
Sorry to revive this old thread, but take a look and a listen at this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

This is what hushypushy was talking about all along.
he posted this video sometime back
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Tool_Is_Sick
09-07-2007, 03:45 PM

I am not a technican when it comes to music clipping etc. though its very interesting..Does it really matter? I mean everyone has his or her own view but this is an awesome cd that we have in our possession and the video above is a very eye opening peice if your new to that type of thing, but i guess things change for the better or worse. like I said Does it really matter? ha Do you hate Tool now because of this? seriously get over it.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:45 PM   #163
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

I am not a technican when it comes to music clipping etc. though its very interesting..Does it really matter? I mean everyone has his or her own view but this is an awesome cd that we have in our possession and the video above is a very eye opening peice if your new to that type of thing, but i guess things change for the better or worse. like I said Does it really matter? ha Do you hate Tool now because of this? seriously get over it.
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Tool_Is_Sick
09-07-2007, 04:15 PM

exactly. who really cares how it was produced? as long as it makes you happy and you take something from the experience. Thats all that matters to me. but i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thoughts. Cheers
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:15 PM   #164
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

exactly. who really cares how it was produced? as long as it makes you happy and you take something from the experience. Thats all that matters to me. but i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thoughts. Cheers
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09-07-2007, 06:44 PM

Old 09-07-2007, 06:44 PM   #165
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

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dirtyepic's Avatar dirtyepic
09-10-2007, 05:02 PM

thanks for this thread, highly informative stuff learnt
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:02 PM   #166
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

thanks for this thread, highly informative stuff learnt
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09-17-2007, 10:01 PM

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

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Old 09-17-2007, 10:01 PM   #167
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

Property & Real Estate Directory | Wholesale Suppliers
Australia Wholesalers and Dropshippers | Dubai Property and Real Estate
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Liam's Avatar Liam
09-17-2007, 10:09 PM

Location: lahore

lol.
Old 09-17-2007, 10:09 PM   #168
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Location: lahore

lol.
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GideonBufo's Avatar GideonBufo
09-17-2007, 11:56 PM

i really dont notice a difference but i have really bad ears. louder is better for me because of that.
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Old 09-17-2007, 11:56 PM   #169
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

i really dont notice a difference but i have really bad ears. louder is better for me because of that.
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Aenima7988's Avatar Aenima7988
10-10-2007, 06:33 PM

I read an article where Barresi or Ludwig said that the album woudl sound great in surround sound. Is the CD encoded to play in surround sound as well as stereo? Or are they hoping to release a 24 bit 96k version for surround systems or something?
Old 10-10-2007, 06:33 PM   #170
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

I read an article where Barresi or Ludwig said that the album woudl sound great in surround sound. Is the CD encoded to play in surround sound as well as stereo? Or are they hoping to release a 24 bit 96k version for surround systems or something?
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Tool_Is_Sick
10-11-2007, 10:30 PM

OMG!!!!!!! EVEN BETTER THAN TOOL'S??? PLEASE TELL ME THEY ARE THE 1%!! PLEASE!!!
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:30 PM   #171
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

OMG!!!!!!! EVEN BETTER THAN TOOL'S??? PLEASE TELL ME THEY ARE THE 1%!! PLEASE!!!
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Schema's Avatar Schema
03-31-2008, 12:54 PM

My ears bled looking at this.

At least it's not as bad as Rush's "Vapor Trails" was.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:54 PM   #172
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

My ears bled looking at this.

At least it's not as bad as Rush's "Vapor Trails" was.
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04-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
These are professionals and they don't make mistakes.
See my above example of shit mastering for a counterexample.

But, I'm sure that Tool knew what they wanted out of this, more than Rush's apparent experimentalism (if I recall my old readings on the shit). I'm sure they knew what they were doing, and that they meant well, but... It's still a "Seriously, what the shit, kids" moment to me, to some extent...
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:23 AM   #173
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
These are professionals and they don't make mistakes.
See my above example of shit mastering for a counterexample.

But, I'm sure that Tool knew what they wanted out of this, more than Rush's apparent experimentalism (if I recall my old readings on the shit). I'm sure they knew what they were doing, and that they meant well, but... It's still a "Seriously, what the shit, kids" moment to me, to some extent...
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04-11-2008, 02:54 AM

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Old 04-11-2008, 02:54 AM   #174
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

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catatuna
08-30-2009, 06:15 PM

Hushy owned all takers in this thread.
Old 08-30-2009, 06:15 PM   #175
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Hushy owned all takers in this thread.
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Michał's Avatar Michał
10-27-2009, 02:44 AM

Hi there, I am sorry for reviving that old thread again, but somehow I did missed it.
First I want to thank Hushypushy for his knowlegde and research. I know what Hushy talks about here, I've been to audio electronics for a while, know what a DAC is, how MP3 affect the audio quality etc. and it was all a delicious piece of personal thoughts to read.
The most interesting part is about the places when you agree/disagree thas something is wrong around.
To tell you the truth, most of the times I liten to the music I am not fully devoted to it. I just play it on a nice set of speakers while I surf the Net, learn etc. I also listen to it on headphones while I'm on the bus But sometimes I want to just reach into the depth of a music piece and I either sit in front of the speakers with eyes closed, concentrating on all the subtleties or do the same but with my headphones in a quiet room.
Whenever I listen in a "devoted" way, I've got a hard time finding a comfortable volume level. Either I cannot feel every detail the way I wish or the overall power is unpleasingly loud (I am anyway listening on rather low levels). Listening on excessively loud levels tires my hearing rather quickly, making me loose my concentration.
10000 Days is very troublesome, when it comes to the level it should be played on. Listening to Vicarious means receiving "full power" all the time, which is tiring and making it hard to stay focused.
On the other hand, when I play 10KD while doing something different, the compression does not disturb me.
The most "quality" way I listened to it is just CD trough CD player and a little selfmade headphone amp on AKG K77's. No EQ or DSP whatsoever.
Let's take the opener, "Vicarious". The neat and tasty details are squeezed under the massive wall of sound. And yes, there is much clipping audible. Take the drums. During verse 1 you hear their attack and decay very well. But when the guitars come in, the drums are somewhat killed. And the snare fill at 1:38 is simply nasty sounding. The cymbals during the chorus appear and fade for less tah a second each, while in reality a cymbal could have a much longer sustain, just like before the heavy "why can't we just admit it". The following heavy guitar clips as hell, it is annoying.
Next - Jambi. The opening guitar sounds clean. But as soon as Justin and Danny join, there is both clipping and white noise. The noise begins at 0:05, cuts out at 0:15 and re-appears at 0:19, together with drum parts so it is probably just natural noise from drumkit recording equipment. But the cl;ipping is a result of job done a bit wrong IMO. The noise also reveals additional compression during first verse, because it disappears after each kick hit and then comes back in (analog kick drum compression, rather common).
I love Jambi though! tons of layers, stereo imaging, reverbs.. delicious :)
In hope to hear Vicarious in better Quality I obtained its DVD. But it sounds.. worse. It's altered by some reverb like you would play it in your bathroom.
My friends usually say it is all my imagination.. Glad to see I'm not the only one again!
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:44 AM   #176
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Hi there, I am sorry for reviving that old thread again, but somehow I did missed it.
First I want to thank Hushypushy for his knowlegde and research. I know what Hushy talks about here, I've been to audio electronics for a while, know what a DAC is, how MP3 affect the audio quality etc. and it was all a delicious piece of personal thoughts to read.
The most interesting part is about the places when you agree/disagree thas something is wrong around.
To tell you the truth, most of the times I liten to the music I am not fully devoted to it. I just play it on a nice set of speakers while I surf the Net, learn etc. I also listen to it on headphones while I'm on the bus But sometimes I want to just reach into the depth of a music piece and I either sit in front of the speakers with eyes closed, concentrating on all the subtleties or do the same but with my headphones in a quiet room.
Whenever I listen in a "devoted" way, I've got a hard time finding a comfortable volume level. Either I cannot feel every detail the way I wish or the overall power is unpleasingly loud (I am anyway listening on rather low levels). Listening on excessively loud levels tires my hearing rather quickly, making me loose my concentration.
10000 Days is very troublesome, when it comes to the level it should be played on. Listening to Vicarious means receiving "full power" all the time, which is tiring and making it hard to stay focused.
On the other hand, when I play 10KD while doing something different, the compression does not disturb me.
The most "quality" way I listened to it is just CD trough CD player and a little selfmade headphone amp on AKG K77's. No EQ or DSP whatsoever.
Let's take the opener, "Vicarious". The neat and tasty details are squeezed under the massive wall of sound. And yes, there is much clipping audible. Take the drums. During verse 1 you hear their attack and decay very well. But when the guitars come in, the drums are somewhat killed. And the snare fill at 1:38 is simply nasty sounding. The cymbals during the chorus appear and fade for less tah a second each, while in reality a cymbal could have a much longer sustain, just like before the heavy "why can't we just admit it". The following heavy guitar clips as hell, it is annoying.
Next - Jambi. The opening guitar sounds clean. But as soon as Justin and Danny join, there is both clipping and white noise. The noise begins at 0:05, cuts out at 0:15 and re-appears at 0:19, together with drum parts so it is probably just natural noise from drumkit recording equipment. But the cl;ipping is a result of job done a bit wrong IMO. The noise also reveals additional compression during first verse, because it disappears after each kick hit and then comes back in (analog kick drum compression, rather common).
I love Jambi though! tons of layers, stereo imaging, reverbs.. delicious :)
In hope to hear Vicarious in better Quality I obtained its DVD. But it sounds.. worse. It's altered by some reverb like you would play it in your bathroom.
My friends usually say it is all my imagination.. Glad to see I'm not the only one again!
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hushypushy's Avatar hushypushy
10-27-2009, 11:28 AM

Maybe one day we'll get a 24/96 uncompressed copy of the studio master that'll really rock the place. I wanna hear Danny's thunderous drums and Justin's grooving bass. I want space between Adam and Maynard.

The cool thing about DVD players is that, unlike CD players, they have dynamic range compression built in (you may have wondered what that DRC stands for...), usually with variable levels. So you could throw this theoretical uncompressed DVD in there with full dynamics when you really want to rock out, but at other points you can throw the compressor on to whatever level you like and change the sound. that would be a cool idea for audiophiles in the future...not just buying remastered albums, but remastering them yourself!
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:28 AM   #177
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Maybe one day we'll get a 24/96 uncompressed copy of the studio master that'll really rock the place. I wanna hear Danny's thunderous drums and Justin's grooving bass. I want space between Adam and Maynard.

The cool thing about DVD players is that, unlike CD players, they have dynamic range compression built in (you may have wondered what that DRC stands for...), usually with variable levels. So you could throw this theoretical uncompressed DVD in there with full dynamics when you really want to rock out, but at other points you can throw the compressor on to whatever level you like and change the sound. that would be a cool idea for audiophiles in the future...not just buying remastered albums, but remastering them yourself!
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Ganjalf's Avatar Ganjalf
10-28-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles View Post
I aimed at the mistakes line. And I am sure they can make mistakes.

Listen: I love 10,000 Days, I love its sound. Yet there are many people who just think 10,000 Days has less dynamics then Lateralus for example. I don't think so. They're just different.
How can you listen to Jambi and tell me that the mastering on that album sounds good. Are you deaf? As soon as the drums kick in at the beginning it sounds like total ass.

Lateralus sounds way better than 10,000 days.

Also in agreement with hushy the double sided dvd/cd version of nine inch nails - the downward spiral sounds so fucking good.
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:09 AM   #178
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles View Post
I aimed at the mistakes line. And I am sure they can make mistakes.

Listen: I love 10,000 Days, I love its sound. Yet there are many people who just think 10,000 Days has less dynamics then Lateralus for example. I don't think so. They're just different.
How can you listen to Jambi and tell me that the mastering on that album sounds good. Are you deaf? As soon as the drums kick in at the beginning it sounds like total ass.

Lateralus sounds way better than 10,000 days.

Also in agreement with hushy the double sided dvd/cd version of nine inch nails - the downward spiral sounds so fucking good.
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Ganjalf's Avatar Ganjalf
10-30-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles View Post
Have you heard how Maynard's voice swirls through the instruments on Jambi? So much more integrated into the overall sound then on Lateralus.
Maybe so but the instruments themselves when played together sound like ass. The beginning of jambi when the drums kick in you can hear slight clipping its ridiculous.

I fucking love jambi but I have a hard time listening to it because it sounds so bad.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:42 AM   #179
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles View Post
Have you heard how Maynard's voice swirls through the instruments on Jambi? So much more integrated into the overall sound then on Lateralus.
Maybe so but the instruments themselves when played together sound like ass. The beginning of jambi when the drums kick in you can hear slight clipping its ridiculous.

I fucking love jambi but I have a hard time listening to it because it sounds so bad.
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hushypushy's Avatar hushypushy
10-31-2009, 08:20 AM

COMPRESSION KILLED MAH BABY


seriously though this is getting pointless

I don't think there's anything left to talk about regarding this situation.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:20 AM   #180
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Re: 10,000 Days IS compressed to hell.

COMPRESSION KILLED MAH BABY


seriously though this is getting pointless

I don't think there's anything left to talk about regarding this situation.
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