Maybe Thai-stick (you know, that sheet that's tied to a steeck)? But that shit has formaldehyde in it, so it's not safe. If it was hash, then the movie definitely overdid their presentation of the effects. Either way, don't let movies motivate you towards (or away from) certain choices in drug use- they lie, and you're better than that.

no.. i was thinking it would just b easier 2 just sit there and inhile it... hey that stuff wouldn't make me physicly do anything crazy would it

Hash, no. Thai-Stick, debatable.

what about shrooms... see im in a wheelchair.. it would b better if i didn't try something that would make me u know think i can walk and stuff... lol

Well, shrooms and the like can cause all kinds of thoughts, and they can be hard to predict. However, the old, "think you can fly" has never happened to me or anybody that I've known. Make an effort to keep your natural limitations in mind (not just you, but everybody), and you should be fine. It's always a good idea to enjoy such experiences with friends that you LOVE AND TRUST, because their presence can serve as a grounding influence on thoughts that extend beyond your realm of probability (possiblity). Ideally, you should talk to your doctor about how such hallucinagens might interact with your specific condition- but obviously our society is far from ideal- and it is often hard to find a doctor that you can trust with such a query (or who will know how to answer, for that matter). Barring that, I would do some research, which may also prove to be a little difficult, given the lack of clincal trials on the subject. Either way you choose, remember to be confident and relax; enjoy.

thats cool.. thats what i figured.. i mean i drink and smoke a little weed so i think i will b ok... i just wanna see what my mind can come up with with that little bit of push

I would assume shrooms would be good for someone in a wheelchair... From my experience with mushrooms, i usually sit under the sky and stare for a few hours, so that would work well for you. However, it is called a 'trip', and while on a trip sometimes you like to journey.... I dont think that would make you think you can walk, but ya never know. I can remember one time i was at a volleyball game while i was coming down from a trip, and i was sitting there thinking i could yell louder than any of the other fans screaming, but i didnt. I was sitting there thinking that if i were to stand up and yell, then the entire sports center would explode, but i didnt yell at all, i just sat there paranoid everyone knew i was tripping still.

They didn't ;)

If you are going to take shrooms, acid, salvia, or even marijuana in high doses, make sure your pray for safe passage. You can confront some potent demons, and you will need protection on the way.
I took shrooms once at a very confused, and insecure time in my life. It was a bad experience, and I believe it hurt me mentally. My memory hasn't been as great since before the experience.
I doubt that shrooms have a negative effect on memory, it is just that my willingness to confront the trip and the alternate dimension I was in had an negative effect on my brain.

Salvia is still legal in 47 states. I recommend that, because there is less stigma attached to a legal substance. Many people become Borderline (a disorder, somewhere between imagination and psychosis) if their thoughts are not contolled. Prayer and protection are without a doubt related to this type of surrounding control. In the end it is your mind, not surroundings which are controlled. DOn't let the drug control you, control your mind, by understanding the experience as an observer. What is happening to you is not reality, but what you learn can help you understand the universal laws wrapped in a veil of darkness. It is hard for CHristians to trip, because of the devil. I'd say there is a devil, but CHristians automatically take ever malevolence or detriment during the trip as a tool of satan. Maybe they are right though.
In any case, pray prior and subsequent to the experience.

hmmm, i know they didnt know i was tripping, but sometimes you cant help thinking that.....

As for the guy before me, 'you can encounter demons', you said something like that. I really think your personal expectations take you where you go with the drug. Yeah, theres things that cant be expected, of course, but if you have a positive attitude going into a trip, chances are you're going encounter angels instead of demons. So many people are afraid of 'the drug' when i really feel it should be themselves they should be afraid of...

Another thing you said, saying to do salvia, something like that. I didnt really read what you said, but im going to comment. I dont know if you said this, but i think this is what you were talking about... Build up to things. Get a strong base with the weaker/lighter substances before going full throttle. Find out what you can handle, and how much you can handle before going nuts.

Then another thing just popped into my head, you said something like "i took these at an insecure point of time in my life" Fuck that, no offense, seriously... You mustve been thinking "my life sux right now" right before you started tripping, which isnt the way you think before you go into a trip. You gotta be like, im ready to learn a lesson, and then embrace. I took mushrooms on two occassions at shitty points of my life. I was failing out of school, i had just gotten arrested, been in a car accident and owed a lot of money, and a number of other things dealing with deceased friends and a tragic love life. The first trip i had during this rocky time in my life, sucked. I freaked out and ended up running away. The second trip, i had a much different idea before going into my trip, and ended up having the most enlightening experience ever. I died, for any of you who have died on mushrooms you know what im talking about. After my death it was as if god had come to me and given me the answers to fixing my life. Everything made perfect sense and afterwards i managed to remember this experience and it carries over into my 'real' , if you will, life and i am still acting accordingly to what i promised myself that day.

Fuck drugs, drugs are bad, psychadellics are amazing. Eh, can be, if used properly.

Sometimes bad trips are kinda cool.... once there over I've always felt good and like I learned something

If you want a good trip do it by yourself or with a really good friend or two. Eat something healthy early in the day and make sure you got a lot of sleep. Make a lot of jokes when things go scary.

I haven't posted in a while in this thread because things got quite heated but I actually have been thinking about this a lot in the last few weeks and had somewhat of a change of heart. To a certain degree...

I still believe that most people out there take psychedelics irresponsibly and for the wrong reasons. I still would never do them. That said I realize that I was a bit harsh about the use of psychedelics as a way to obtain spirituality. Let me explain...

We as humans are burdened with a lot of issues, stress, pain, etc. and often times it is INCREDIBLY hard to truly sit down and try to rid of all the baggage in your conscious mind and get deep inside of yourself to realize you own beliefs on life and the world around us. I can see now that perhaps psychedelics are a way to assist some people that can't otherwise seem to do this. I do believe that taking psychedelics for any other purpose is abuse. However, if this enlightenment is what you take from your experiences then it is a good thing. Again, only if you take them responsibly and educate yourself.

That said, I think everyone should at least try to obtain this without psychedelics. I feel it is rewarding if you are able to overcome everything and obtain this with no assistance.

I just wanted to say that I think I get what some of you were saying now.

Ha ha are you talking about me? Wow you have me all figured out. You are so wise. Really, wait, God, is that you?

I do not need to prove myself to you, though I will simply say, if you "lay it out as you see it," then you need to get your eyes checked my friend.

And, please, seriously, I'd loose the whole "homegirl" thing from your vocabulary. It ruins your street cred homey.

You misquoted me and misinterpreted what I was saying here. I agree on what you are saying on religion, read my other posts.

bellamadia, the wizards of tool summed up the point of your long post into

"so crucify the ego before its far too late"

And i guess i kind of agree with you, but i feel psychadellics are there to teach you those lessons about yourself and show you the path towards enlightenment.

I said that... but i dont truly believe in a 'path' or whatever towards enlightenment. But the point of my last comment was just to basically say that psychadellics open up a door of endless possibilities, and put yourself right in front of you and make you look at yourself under a different light, and under more vulnerable circumstances.

Yes, I have felt the same way as the lyrics in reflections, but I have done this without psychedelics. Not judging, just saying, it is possible. And it is an AMAZING feeling and journey, really really amazing!

well thats cool that i wont like freak out and do something crazy... cant u boil shrooms and make a tea out of it?

how do we know that these things you are seeing are a hightened reality.

If what you are saying is true than can we say that the schitzophrenia patients are in hightend reality cause they can see what we cant?

or better yet...scratch that last question.

You have your way...I have mine.

I can't begin to understand what your saying. Nor you to me.

2 opposing opinions is all that we are.

In conclusion....if it works....go for it.

I've never done it that way, but I've heard of it. Just seems like a waste of time. My advice, make a peanut butter n' 'shroom sandwich (lots of peanut butter) and you won't be able to taste a thing. Dumping them in chili is pretty good, too. Whatever you do, NO DAIRY.

If you have come to these realizations without the aid of psychedelics, then cool. But don't think that means that you have made the same journey. We are talking about the difference between believing and seeing/experiencing. You may know about the link that connects all humans, but I've seen it/touched it/smelled it/heard it/tasted it; felt it motivating me towards good works and away from division; tried to play games with it and been burned . . . I've had Rosseta Stoned-type experiences in which I have encountered beings that I thought must've been hallucinations of my mind's creation- until I realized that my friends saw them, too. These beings talk with you over the nature of existence- a hard discussion to have when your concept of extant reality has been shattered.

The experiences that I have had are very hard for me to quantify and qualify- and they happened to me! So while I will believe you when you say that your mind is open to these possibilities; that- in essence- you have accepted much of the communal ethos espoused by users of psychedelia; I say that without the first-hand experience of the use of psychedelia, you cannot begin to understand the magnitude, application, and rationale behind any of it. True, the paths of both psychedelic lucidity and abstention can be used to access destinations of open-minded reality, but your loss is in the journey. You don't get to percieve thngs from this context, but the majority of my life is spent in the perspective of your context. We may reach the same destination, but my eyes will have seen life through the experiences of a different (not necessarily higher) conciousness that is not bound by the limitations of humanity. <sigh> Once again words fail me as I attempt to describe what many before me have categorized as uncapturable in words.

Am I saying that you cannot live a fullfilling life of meaning and philosophical paradox without the aid of psychedelia? No. Merely that an appreciation of such things is greatly enhanced by the psychedelic perspective. Am I reccomending that you take psychedelics? Nnnnnyyyeesssssssss . . . (please hear me out)

You seem to have reached many open-minded conclusions at a time in your life when much of it still lies ahead of you. The ability to contextualize your conclusions in myriad new and previously unfathomable applications would be a reward of unparalleled magnitude for you on levels of which you were previously unaware. You seem to be a very cerebral person; so you should do a lot of research first- but that won't be problematic as their are thousands of applicable sources for such an endeavor. You seem to be a very empathetic person; so you would have to separate yourself your potential USE from your life experience involving persons who have ABUSED these- and other- substances. But f you were to do those things; suuround yourself with people that you trust; and remember to be confident and relax; you would greatly increase your awareness of the truth of the interconnected experience.

Peace.

Yes, you are correct... The Journey will not be the same, but that is also true for person A that takes a psychedelic drug and person B and so on. No 2 people could ever take the same Journey to spirituality. I am completely at peace with taking my Journey the way I choose and you taking yours as you choose. The important thing here is you realize that neither is better, just different. I also feel confident that I do not need to see to believe. I feel it, and I feel it STRONG...that is all I need within myself.

I get what you are saying here, but again, it doesn't mean that seeing things from that context is going to be what I want, or need, in reaching my state of enlightenment. Perhaps for me, it isn't the "path" I should, or need, to take.

I feel the above is a pretty fair and accurate description of me. I appreciate the obvious amount of attention you put into understanding where I am coming from. Too many people on this site just click reply and begin to showcase their diarrhea of the mouth syndrome. Despite our different views, I enjoy your posts because I like an intelligent debate. Often in these types of debates I either realize how strongly I believe in something or I realize that maybe what I always thought I believed in, I actually question. Either way I learn something, which is what it's all about.

ok no dairy got yea... yea i just want 2 see what my twisted mind will see and experiance because if i meditat i can see some crazy stuff already

see crazy things when meditating, interesting, i never really see anything unless i connect with some other person, even then my eyes are still closed and its just an overwhelming feeling, no visioanry things.

Meditation is a powerful pathway if you really can achieve that focus. It's a lot harder than it seems it should be, but if you have a couple of weeks to dedicate to perfecting your route to calm; meditation can cause visions, out-of-body experiences, and deep introspection . . . Very similar to psychedelic experiences, but with much less intensity.

yea... when i see things i normally see animals... last time i saw a monkey trying 2 grab a butterfly.... idk y.. but thats what i saw

ummm, out of body experiences yes. Coming to life and opening my eyes in different places, yes. Seeing butterflies, no. Im not doubting you, dont take that idea from what im saying, im just saying its never happened to me. For the past two years, ever since ive learned how to meditate, ive done it at least twice a day since then. I would say ive become very experienced with it and its actually brought me places that drugs havent. My personal belief is that meditation, if done correctly can be even more intense than psychadellic experiences. All these old wackos say the same thing... I really dont know if i completely buy that, seeing as there are a few drugs i havent conqueered yet, but the ones i have experienced dont compare to where ive been with meditation.

Note: I'm correcting only for purposes of informing. Thai-stick has gotten a lot of urban legend built up around it, and the formaldehyde thing is probably one of these. (Earlier people said the same thing about opium, LSD, etc., being added.) Thai-stick is just seedless marijuana buds lined up and wrapped to a stem with fibers from the stalk; this is just a potent delivery system for marijuana. Part of the "Thai" just refered to a street name for marijuana that was really potent compared to the norm. It got its bad reputation mostly from the fact that a toke delivered the same punch as a regular joint. Potent, yeah; dangerous, no more than the cultivated premiums you can find today.

(On a side note, if you're on one end of a shady-feeling deal with a guy who insists he's got some mind-blowing stuff called Thai-stick, take a step back, because he probably is some thug trying to slide you some bizzare shit.)

As for the 'shrooms advice--Everything everyone here has already advised in spades. If I had to prioritize, I'd say
1) Don't use them if you have people relying on you. (For instance, if you've got children in the next room, maybe accept that you've got more pressing demands than trying 'shrooms.)
2) Don't buy mystery 'shrooms. (It's even best to grow your own, since it'll give you a lot of time to get ready.)
3) Don't try them without a sober, rational, non-jackhole babysitter.
4) Don't try them when you're likely to be interrupted.
5) Don't try them if you're feeling really shaky about doing so. (Mindset is everything.)
6) Don't start with huge doses or try and trip to oblivion your first time; take a small amount, expecting to feel a bit adjusted but not expecting to see the world melting. (If you can try a bit and just feel a bit lighter or spacier the first time, there'll always be time to turn on the blender, and the blender will feel safer after the first comfortable experience.)
7) Don't do it on a full stomach, milk, etc.--all the dietary stuff that's mentioned on any site as increasing nauseau or mucking up the chemical reactions.
8) Don't try and get comfortable with other people's ideas of what's comforting. (Yeah, ambient music is great, but this is not the time to listen to Music for Airports for the first time. If Enya relaxes you and all your friends say that's lame, listen to Enya and don't use those friends as babysitters.)
9) Don't try and get comfortable with familiar things that evoke mixed feelings. (Yeah, listening to Tool is relaxing, but there are some tracks that you might want to steer clear of the first time. Rosetta Stoned comes to mind; that one can freak me sober.)
10) Don't try it again if you're really disturbed by the first time, no matter how many people tell you it'll smooth out or that stacking* will balance it out.

*Yeah, just avoid stacking almost all together: always when trying a substance for the first time; always when the mix is contraindicated.

You wouldn't consider cannabis and 'shrooms to be stacking would you? Because I don't think that there is anything wrong with that combination.

And yeah, you're probably right about the origins of Thai stick, and your admonition against buying some tomorrow is quite sane (and really more what I was referencing). Original Thai stick was nothing dangerous, but what we now call Thai stick (the original is no longer available) is generally any old weed tied to a stick and laced with formaldehyde (most commonly, though unscrupulous dealers are known to deviate from the plan when there is profit to be had). The addition of the formaldehyde makes it so that one hit off of a new-fangled Thai stick does fuck you up considerably more than a hit off a good ol' fashioned bowl- but it is in no way comparable to the effect of smoking a joint, and it is dangerous to boot. It's a bit like LSD. It's very hard to find the real thing anymore (blame Nixon), but you wouldn't know that if you talked to the majority of active acid dealers. Most acid today (see ALD and its further derivitives) is not LSD, though it does induce a similar sensation.

So thanks for the correction- though the advice still stands.

Man, formaldehyde on any old bit of scrub: That's shitty to hear. You sure it's not just "embalming fluid," like street-slang for PCP? Anyway, it wouldn't be shocking to hear, since prohibition always leads to shady combinations. I'm so glad I quit the US drug scene after some time in Europe and Asia; it's just too dangerous to buy anything here. And, yeah, there's no such thing as LSD around me anymore outside of university labs, which probably explains why so many people don't think it strong enough to work as in "Rosetta Stoned."

As for the cannabis-'shrooms mix, it's not contraindicated by any source I've ever read (other than those that just say, "bad plus bad equals double-bad"). I'd still say hold off on the mix the first time trying 'shrooms, if only because I think you should be trying to get that base effect the first time trying anything.

I'd just like to be person #86,135 to echo 'fuck coke, extrafuck Heroin, and quadroopalfuck DXM. God. Fucking DXM. I hate it so much I'm using fucking every other fucking word, that's how much of a fucking worthless drug it is.

I'll take #86,136 in that line. Though I'd like to give honorable mention to K, G and any other one-letter drug names that refer to some sort of hormone/tranquilizer for some barnyard animal. Seriously, do want to grow a fourth stomach?

I have not posted on this site in a long time, but I purposely came back to this thread because of a movie I recently saw entitled "What the bleep do we know?" While I admit I am somewhat niave to quantum physics this movie really resonated with me.

I think that now I can understand what some of you have said in this thread about psychadelics bringing out alternate realities and things are "sober" minds can't percieve. I believe that there exists many many things that our mind cannot currently comprehend because of our our preconditioned perceptions. I can see now what psychadelics have to offer. Here are some legitimate questions I have based on this however....

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

I'd like to gain a deeper understanding of this from people that do psychedelics. While I have learned to accept the intriguing affects of these drugs, I'm still not sure I buy into the benefits if you are already open minded and accepting of many of the spiritual and metaphysical ideas that some claim come out of it. It seems to me that psychedelics may be a tool for those people that need assistance or proof to believe. But what if I don't? What is the benefit?

I have taken LSD many times, and I have to say I think most of us did it all wrong, either did to much or not enough, I believe Timothy Leary had down to the point where he knew the exact dosage to take or to give to his patients, I didn't and just get really really F@#$ed up, chasing seagulls on the beach at 4 in the morning with friends and laughing for no reason for about 12 hours and then felt like shit and dirty when it was over.....I will NEVER do LSD again.

"Grasshopper, pluck the button from my hand, and you will have attained total enlightenment!"

We're now getting into the whole organic vs. non argument, whether you know it or not. ""Shrooms and weed=OK" other stuff=not so much. A truly interesting double standard, considering that weed is quite possibly the most genetically altered, hybridized, and otherwise fucked with plant in the history of farming, and you can bet they're working on a way to do the same, and predictably farm 'shrooms as well.

The "other stuff", acid, X, dmt, etc... haven't been legitamately manufactured for decades. Pretty much it's in the same boat as meth:Some redneck douche-bag in a "Ski-Doo" jacket, or ambitious college turd with more spending limit on ma's credit card than common sense are making it in their dorm/ trailer/ basement, etc...That being said, there are some who follow the "recipes" closer than others, but it's still amateur hour in Mr. Wizards' lab. Kinda like going to a first year med students dorm for micro-surgery...

I see your concern.

For me, I do psychedelics very rarely nowadays (except perhaps pot, if a psychedelic you consider it) - When I was doing them, it was mostly in my 'searching' phase, shortly after leaving Christianity behind, which was actually initially catalyzed by an Ayahuasca trip.

I gained this experiential knowledge of these other dimensions and what the implications of that could be. So I started looking for truth elsewhere. I eventually found a religion/school of thought that almost completely matched the conclusions I'd drawn while in the grips of a psychedelic state and during reflections thereafter.

So now then...

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

Part of those unknown realities is their unknown occupants/intelligence. Expeiencing those absolutle alien mindstates never ceases to give radically altered point of views and perspectives on matters in 'the real world' that spur sober growth and purpose.

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

Because I see the paradigm our culture, people, and indeed our world are in right now as a result of 'acceptable, mainstream thinking' and it's shit. There's a sense and an unspeakable logic in the ability to examine an issue or idea from fifty angles simultaneously (not uncommon with psychedelic drug experiences) - It declouds the mind and allows the mind to delve fully within itself into the boundless unlimit of imagination - you can think and reason and contemplate on a scale that is not even conveyable to the sober mind - but you bring back your conclusions. And for me those conclusions have led to an intense inner peace and drive for growth and change.

Now I have kids so I don't really trip very much but I still think just like deep meditaion and prayer, psychedelic drugs will always have something to offer us in terms of learning and growing - if we choose to use them that way.

im not dosing anymore and havent for a long time. mostly cause im 37. when i was younger i partied with the best of em, but as you get older your body doesnt recover so quickly.

did do shrooms 2 years ago at a DEAD concert, but it was a small dose, just some mild euphoria.

But to comment on what has been said in this very long thread, i never did lose myself so to speak on lsd and forget where i was or run off and do something crazy. The most intense experiences only occured with certain people, mostly mind swapping and telepathy, or having the awareness that their was a higher force controlling everything in such a manner that certain things were going to happen and could not be diverted. like knowing you were about to see someone and walking round the corner and there they are.

Or having a feeling like you were in someone else's mind (who also was dosing and had been seperated from you) and things were getting quite uncomfortable and just on time that person would return and the two of you would exchange some energy and be back to yourself again and be like "whew that was close" but somehow you knew it was all controlled by subconscious forces or powers operating outside of you and was ok.

But after an experience like that, you would retain something of that person, in that you knew how their mind or thinking process went, and you could know deeply intimate things about that person, how they really are. things that could not be put into words. that is what i call mind swapping.

First, thanks for answering my questions intelligently. I feel some of the people on here are perfect examples as to how these drugs are abused and I'm really looking for answers on how psychedelics can help one spirtually. I hear what you are saying here. I have been going through the same exact thing for the last 2 years, less the drug part that is. So while I did not gain experiential knowledge, I have no doubts to what you describe. I've netted out in a great place, spiritually speaking, and feel like a completely different person.

Perhaps I can buy into the the logic that while one may believe in these other dimensions, one cannot fully reap benefits in the real world until they have experienced it, giving one a deeper understanding.

I completely agree with you that MOST people walk around this world making decisions and acting according to "mainstream" thinking. They believe in only what they know, see and have been told. They never question anything... they never open their minds to "these infinite possibilities." To not do this takes hard work. You need to recondition yourself, your reactions, your mindset, your train of thought, and most importantly, rise above the shit that is beaten into us by society. I am one of those people that makes a concious effort to do this every day. It seems to me that what you're saying here is this psychedelic use would help one to do this, and if you are already someone that does this, it will only help your further development. While this reality may not be any more or less of reality than what you see on psychedelics, they can at the very least offer you a different perspective.

Overall, what I don't understand is that it seems to me that most people don't gain these types of insight from psychedelics. How can you "make sure" so to speak, that this is what happens on your trip? I know people that have done psychedelics, I've read posts on this site and others. Most of them sound like idiots. Let's say 1 out of every 75 people have gained what you are describing here from psychedelic use. So what's the difference for some peoples trips vs. others?

Intentions. Other peoples' moods around them. True willingness to be open to the experience. Preparation.

Intention, I think, is the most important one, however.

If you go into it because you want to have a good time and party and whatever - basically if you're just looking for some new way to be entertained or get fucked up (which is what most do) then that's all you're likely to get out of it.

People you trip with also are important - if you trip with a bunch of teenage stoners who don't know/care about shit then you aren't going to get as much out of it. I was fortunate to have five amazingly wonderful open people to share the experience with while it was going on. This in no small way contributed.

In short, there is no guarantee. You do what you can - most importantly, you have to want to learn from it and change.