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Cheesegreater
05-27-2009, 02:38 PM
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I hope this doesn't upset someone if I'm putting it in the wrong place, but I have to ask Tool fans from all the different eras with all their different biases, what has happened to Maynard's voice over the years?

I'm not asking this as a loaded question, like "What the FUCK has happened to his voice." I'm just asking how has this man's voice evolved over time?

I have to say that early recordings all the way up the early 2000s his voice seems more prevalent in the mix. Now, in all fairness I will say I've seen an exception or two with a couple of 10,000 Days concerts, but overall he's really low in the mix... beyond blending in like "being another instrument," it's to the point of being barely heard at all.

I remember when I saw my first concert which was a 10k Days show I remember being really pumped about hearing Maynard. The show was great, but I had to make peace with the idea that I'd only be able to hear him well in the mix only every now and then.

Do you guys think this trend will continue? Do you think it could possibly have been his miking technique that screwed over his sound this last tour? Also, I know in arenas you aren't guaranteed good sound in a lot of places. So could it just be where people are located that affects whether or not you get to hear Maynard?

i don't know... I mean all the other musicians are usually equalized perfectly, can't he get a little louder, or at least can his mic?
Old 05-27-2009, 02:38 PM   #1
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Maynard's singing

I hope this doesn't upset someone if I'm putting it in the wrong place, but I have to ask Tool fans from all the different eras with all their different biases, what has happened to Maynard's voice over the years?

I'm not asking this as a loaded question, like "What the FUCK has happened to his voice." I'm just asking how has this man's voice evolved over time?

I have to say that early recordings all the way up the early 2000s his voice seems more prevalent in the mix. Now, in all fairness I will say I've seen an exception or two with a couple of 10,000 Days concerts, but overall he's really low in the mix... beyond blending in like "being another instrument," it's to the point of being barely heard at all.

I remember when I saw my first concert which was a 10k Days show I remember being really pumped about hearing Maynard. The show was great, but I had to make peace with the idea that I'd only be able to hear him well in the mix only every now and then.

Do you guys think this trend will continue? Do you think it could possibly have been his miking technique that screwed over his sound this last tour? Also, I know in arenas you aren't guaranteed good sound in a lot of places. So could it just be where people are located that affects whether or not you get to hear Maynard?

i don't know... I mean all the other musicians are usually equalized perfectly, can't he get a little louder, or at least can his mic?
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Inner_Eulogy's Avatar Inner_Eulogy
05-27-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
I hope this doesn't upset someone if I'm putting it in the wrong place, but I have to ask Tool fans from all the different eras with all their different biases, what has happened to Maynard's voice over the years?

I'm not asking this as a loaded question, like "What the FUCK has happened to his voice." I'm just asking how has this man's voice evolved over time?

I have to say that early recordings all the way up the early 2000s his voice seems more prevalent in the mix. Now, in all fairness I will say I've seen an exception or two with a couple of 10,000 Days concerts, but overall he's really low in the mix... beyond blending in like "being another instrument," it's to the point of being barely heard at all.

I remember when I saw my first concert which was a 10k Days show I remember being really pumped about hearing Maynard. The show was great, but I had to make peace with the idea that I'd only be able to hear him well in the mix only every now and then.

Do you guys think this trend will continue? Do you think it could possibly have been his miking technique that screwed over his sound this last tour? Also, I know in arenas you aren't guaranteed good sound in a lot of places. So could it just be where people are located that affects whether or not you get to hear Maynard?

i don't know... I mean all the other musicians are usually equalized perfectly, can't he get a little louder, or at least can his mic?
Sure they could, but that's probably intentional
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Old 05-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #2
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Re: Maynard's singing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
I hope this doesn't upset someone if I'm putting it in the wrong place, but I have to ask Tool fans from all the different eras with all their different biases, what has happened to Maynard's voice over the years?

I'm not asking this as a loaded question, like "What the FUCK has happened to his voice." I'm just asking how has this man's voice evolved over time?

I have to say that early recordings all the way up the early 2000s his voice seems more prevalent in the mix. Now, in all fairness I will say I've seen an exception or two with a couple of 10,000 Days concerts, but overall he's really low in the mix... beyond blending in like "being another instrument," it's to the point of being barely heard at all.

I remember when I saw my first concert which was a 10k Days show I remember being really pumped about hearing Maynard. The show was great, but I had to make peace with the idea that I'd only be able to hear him well in the mix only every now and then.

Do you guys think this trend will continue? Do you think it could possibly have been his miking technique that screwed over his sound this last tour? Also, I know in arenas you aren't guaranteed good sound in a lot of places. So could it just be where people are located that affects whether or not you get to hear Maynard?

i don't know... I mean all the other musicians are usually equalized perfectly, can't he get a little louder, or at least can his mic?
Sure they could, but that's probably intentional
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Elton John
05-27-2009, 06:59 PM
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I have made a thread about this a couple of years ago. He just cant sing like he used to. He really challenged his vocal chords back in the 90s witht he beautiful whispers and harsh screams. You cant sing like that for more than a decade and not have your voice go out on you.

You just cant expect much from Maynard vocally live if you are a fan of tool because of his epic screams. He CANT do them anymore. I am a vocal coach and i can tell when someone has blown their voice out. His incredibly challenging vocal style back in the 90s+ Aging will do that to anyone.

This is the only bad thing about awesome bands growing old together. The musicianship ALWAYS gets better and the singer always gets worse. You just have to accept it andknow he is giving it his all.
Old 05-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #3
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Re: Maynard's singing

I have made a thread about this a couple of years ago. He just cant sing like he used to. He really challenged his vocal chords back in the 90s witht he beautiful whispers and harsh screams. You cant sing like that for more than a decade and not have your voice go out on you.

You just cant expect much from Maynard vocally live if you are a fan of tool because of his epic screams. He CANT do them anymore. I am a vocal coach and i can tell when someone has blown their voice out. His incredibly challenging vocal style back in the 90s+ Aging will do that to anyone.

This is the only bad thing about awesome bands growing old together. The musicianship ALWAYS gets better and the singer always gets worse. You just have to accept it andknow he is giving it his all.
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05-27-2009, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
This is the only bad thing about awesome bands growing old together. The musicianship ALWAYS gets better and the singer always gets worse. You just have to accept it andknow he is giving it his all.
I don't know, his singing at the Puscifer live shows sounded astonishing from what I had seen/heard.
Old 05-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #4
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
This is the only bad thing about awesome bands growing old together. The musicianship ALWAYS gets better and the singer always gets worse. You just have to accept it andknow he is giving it his all.
I don't know, his singing at the Puscifer live shows sounded astonishing from what I had seen/heard.
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Elton John
05-27-2009, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Yast3r View Post
I don't know, his singing at the Puscifer live shows sounded astonishing from what I had seen/heard.
lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.

Maynard still has my favorite vocal tone and can still sing very good as long as the song is right in his range. But to say that his voice is still as technically compelling as it was in the 90s is to show everyone how much of a fanboy certain tool fans can be.

He cant sing like he used to...period. You cant argue this. Look up his attempts at pushit and opiate in 2006 and there is your objective proof =). Hell, listen to how he sings the chorus's to stinkfist and 46&2. You can tell that he is struggling...so dont give me the "he just changed up the melody" because it is very transparent that he is altering the melodies so he can sing them still.

He has lost his vocal power...but he is only human and like i have said, it is impossible to sing the way he did in the 90s and push yourself vocally to that limit and not have voice problems down the road.
Old 05-27-2009, 11:46 PM   #5
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Yast3r View Post
I don't know, his singing at the Puscifer live shows sounded astonishing from what I had seen/heard.
lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.

Maynard still has my favorite vocal tone and can still sing very good as long as the song is right in his range. But to say that his voice is still as technically compelling as it was in the 90s is to show everyone how much of a fanboy certain tool fans can be.

He cant sing like he used to...period. You cant argue this. Look up his attempts at pushit and opiate in 2006 and there is your objective proof =). Hell, listen to how he sings the chorus's to stinkfist and 46&2. You can tell that he is struggling...so dont give me the "he just changed up the melody" because it is very transparent that he is altering the melodies so he can sing them still.

He has lost his vocal power...but he is only human and like i have said, it is impossible to sing the way he did in the 90s and push yourself vocally to that limit and not have voice problems down the road.
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05-28-2009, 09:02 AM
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lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.
The albums, yes, but the live performances had him singing the songs in a much different way. Very 'Lateralus'-era, in my opinion.
Old 05-28-2009, 09:02 AM   #6
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.
The albums, yes, but the live performances had him singing the songs in a much different way. Very 'Lateralus'-era, in my opinion.
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Kody27
05-28-2009, 09:02 AM
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i downloaded a concert from their 10000 days tour in honolulu hawaii, he screams the climax part in vicarious and it's fucking flawless. i've seen them 4 times live and he never screamed that part before, i guess it just depends on how he feels and of course you can't expect him to do that every show, even though he usually always screams during stinkfist just as loud.
Old 05-28-2009, 09:02 AM   #7
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Re: Maynard's singing

i downloaded a concert from their 10000 days tour in honolulu hawaii, he screams the climax part in vicarious and it's fucking flawless. i've seen them 4 times live and he never screamed that part before, i guess it just depends on how he feels and of course you can't expect him to do that every show, even though he usually always screams during stinkfist just as loud.
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05-28-2009, 10:02 AM
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I would like to hear you screaming lyrics when your forty-something.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:02 AM   #8
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Re: Maynard's singing

I would like to hear you screaming lyrics when your forty-something.
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0.618
05-28-2009, 10:19 AM
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I would like to hear you screaming lyrics when your forty-something.
isnt this the point he was making
Old 05-28-2009, 10:19 AM   #9
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Re: Maynard's singing

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I would like to hear you screaming lyrics when your forty-something.
isnt this the point he was making
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0.618
05-28-2009, 10:20 AM
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Maynard pushes his vocals farther down in the mix to put more emphasis on the music itself.

I'm pretty sure he's said this many times in the press and in interviews...
but this is true to the ones we compare as well. i heard reading this in very old interviews
Old 05-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #10
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Rivek View Post
Maynard pushes his vocals farther down in the mix to put more emphasis on the music itself.

I'm pretty sure he's said this many times in the press and in interviews...
but this is true to the ones we compare as well. i heard reading this in very old interviews
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05-28-2009, 10:26 AM
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Fuck you buddy, send more money!
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:26 AM   #11
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Re: Maynard's singing

Fuck you buddy, send more money!
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crincled
05-28-2009, 10:35 AM
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i think his voice changed because he changed as a person. he's not angry anymore...
Old 05-28-2009, 10:35 AM   #12
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Re: Maynard's singing

i think his voice changed because he changed as a person. he's not angry anymore...
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05-28-2009, 11:48 AM
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i think his voice changed because he changed as a person. he's not angry anymore...
Maybe in a very minute way, but that would affect his style more so than his actual ability to sing the way he used to.

Either way, I don't really care as long as he continues to make good music.

Hence, my sarcastic reference to "fuck you buddy, send more money"
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:48 AM   #13
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Re: Maynard's singing

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i think his voice changed because he changed as a person. he's not angry anymore...
Maybe in a very minute way, but that would affect his style more so than his actual ability to sing the way he used to.

Either way, I don't really care as long as he continues to make good music.

Hence, my sarcastic reference to "fuck you buddy, send more money"
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05-28-2009, 12:09 PM
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isnt this the point he was making
Yeah I guess so, but I said it in one sentence :)
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:09 PM   #14
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Re: Maynard's singing

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isnt this the point he was making
Yeah I guess so, but I said it in one sentence :)
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05-28-2009, 12:17 PM
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The albums, yes, but the live performances had him singing the songs in a much different way. Very 'Lateralus'-era, in my opinion.
Not to propose a strawman argument but comparing anything maynard has done in Puscifer to the best album ever made makes me want to die.
Old 05-28-2009, 12:17 PM   #15
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Yast3r View Post
The albums, yes, but the live performances had him singing the songs in a much different way. Very 'Lateralus'-era, in my opinion.
Not to propose a strawman argument but comparing anything maynard has done in Puscifer to the best album ever made makes me want to die.
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05-28-2009, 12:21 PM
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Not to propose a strawman argument but comparing anything maynard has done in Puscifer to the best album ever made makes me want to die.
I wasn't comparing it to Aenima though.
Old 05-28-2009, 12:21 PM   #16
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Not to propose a strawman argument but comparing anything maynard has done in Puscifer to the best album ever made makes me want to die.
I wasn't comparing it to Aenima though.
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0.618
05-28-2009, 12:41 PM
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Yeah I guess so, but I said it in one sentence :)
:o
Old 05-28-2009, 12:41 PM   #17
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Yeah I guess so, but I said it in one sentence :)
:o
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05-28-2009, 12:59 PM
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I would love to hear Tool cover a Elton John song, perhaps Tiny Dancer.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:59 PM   #18
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Re: Maynard's singing

I would love to hear Tool cover a Elton John song, perhaps Tiny Dancer.
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05-28-2009, 02:08 PM
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or Bennie and the Jets
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:08 PM   #19
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Re: Maynard's singing

or Bennie and the Jets
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05-28-2009, 03:03 PM
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or Bennie and the Jets
Yes! That would rock.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:03 PM   #20
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or Bennie and the Jets
Yes! That would rock.
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05-28-2009, 07:17 PM
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rocketmaaaaaaaaan somethin somethin somethin out here alone.
Old 05-28-2009, 07:17 PM   #21
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Re: Maynard's singing

rocketmaaaaaaaaan somethin somethin somethin out here alone.
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05-28-2009, 07:24 PM
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rocketmaaaaaaaaan somethin somethin somethin out here alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqprhVmv3BI
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:24 PM   #22
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rocketmaaaaaaaaan somethin somethin somethin out here alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqprhVmv3BI
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05-28-2009, 07:41 PM
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Even if he can't hit the notes he used to, I like that they have Maynard low in the mix on the last two albums. I like that, in a way, Lateralus is Danny's record. And that 10K is Adam's. I like the sound on both of those records.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:41 PM   #23
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Re: Maynard's singing

Even if he can't hit the notes he used to, I like that they have Maynard low in the mix on the last two albums. I like that, in a way, Lateralus is Danny's record. And that 10K is Adam's. I like the sound on both of those records.
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05-28-2009, 09:10 PM
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lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.

Maynard still has my favorite vocal tone and can still sing very good as long as the song is right in his range. But to say that his voice is still as technically compelling as it was in the 90s is to show everyone how much of a fanboy certain tool fans can be.

He cant sing like he used to...period. You cant argue this. Look up his attempts at pushit and opiate in 2006 and there is your objective proof =). Hell, listen to how he sings the chorus's to stinkfist and 46&2. You can tell that he is struggling...so dont give me the "he just changed up the melody" because it is very transparent that he is altering the melodies so he can sing them still.

He has lost his vocal power...but he is only human and like i have said, it is impossible to sing the way he did in the 90s and push yourself vocally to that limit and not have voice problems down the road.
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
Old 05-28-2009, 09:10 PM   #24
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
lol well of course his voice sounds good with puscifer. The songs are very easy to sing and catered to his voice perfectly. He takes no chances with his voice on puscifer.

Maynard still has my favorite vocal tone and can still sing very good as long as the song is right in his range. But to say that his voice is still as technically compelling as it was in the 90s is to show everyone how much of a fanboy certain tool fans can be.

He cant sing like he used to...period. You cant argue this. Look up his attempts at pushit and opiate in 2006 and there is your objective proof =). Hell, listen to how he sings the chorus's to stinkfist and 46&2. You can tell that he is struggling...so dont give me the "he just changed up the melody" because it is very transparent that he is altering the melodies so he can sing them still.

He has lost his vocal power...but he is only human and like i have said, it is impossible to sing the way he did in the 90s and push yourself vocally to that limit and not have voice problems down the road.
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
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05-28-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kody27 View Post
i downloaded a concert from their 10000 days tour in honolulu hawaii, he screams the climax part in vicarious and it's fucking flawless. i've seen them 4 times live and he never screamed that part before, i guess it just depends on how he feels and of course you can't expect him to do that every show, even though he usually always screams during stinkfist just as loud.
Gotta disagree on the stinkfist scream. I have a couple recordings where he screams really loud and a few where it sounds very phoned-in. Kinda like a "hut" type noise.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:13 PM   #25
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Kody27 View Post
i downloaded a concert from their 10000 days tour in honolulu hawaii, he screams the climax part in vicarious and it's fucking flawless. i've seen them 4 times live and he never screamed that part before, i guess it just depends on how he feels and of course you can't expect him to do that every show, even though he usually always screams during stinkfist just as loud.
Gotta disagree on the stinkfist scream. I have a couple recordings where he screams really loud and a few where it sounds very phoned-in. Kinda like a "hut" type noise.
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Elton John
05-29-2009, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 0ctopod View Post
Even if he can't hit the notes he used to, I like that they have Maynard low in the mix on the last two albums. I like that, in a way, Lateralus is Danny's record. And that 10K is Adam's. I like the sound on both of those records.
10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.

And Lateralus is my favorite guitar work of all times. But i can see how you can say its danny's. I for one believe that was TooL at the climax and pinnacle of their prime. Every song on Lateralus is perfect and it is the most spritual album i have ever heard, and im not even spiritual lol.
Old 05-29-2009, 01:53 AM   #26
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by 0ctopod View Post
Even if he can't hit the notes he used to, I like that they have Maynard low in the mix on the last two albums. I like that, in a way, Lateralus is Danny's record. And that 10K is Adam's. I like the sound on both of those records.
10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.

And Lateralus is my favorite guitar work of all times. But i can see how you can say its danny's. I for one believe that was TooL at the climax and pinnacle of their prime. Every song on Lateralus is perfect and it is the most spritual album i have ever heard, and im not even spiritual lol.
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Angel on the Sideline
05-29-2009, 05:29 AM
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I wasn't comparing it to Aenima though.
Nice...
Old 05-29-2009, 05:29 AM   #27
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Yast3r View Post
I wasn't comparing it to Aenima though.
Nice...
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Angel on the Sideline
05-29-2009, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
I feel you, Cheese. I appreciate what you're saying. I feel the same way in some respects.

When I saw Tool in Columbus, Ohio, in Sept. 2006 Maynard was getting over an illness and just getting his voice back. He sounded really good and attempted to nail the end of "Vicarious." He got up pretty high, but his voice went out on the last couple syllables of the word "Vicariously." I was shocked he even attempted it and really appreciated the fact that he did.

When I saw Tool again in Cincinnati in July 2007, he didn't even attempt it. He held the mic out for the crowd to sing it — and you could just tell intuitively that he doesn't like to do that. I've heard recordings where he's nailed it, too. Some days your voice is stronger than others.

Anyway, I think we all need to accept the fact that Maynard's voice simply can't be as powerful in his 40s as it was in his 20s and early 30s. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he can't sing. On the contrary, he still sings very well and he still has the ability to do what made him so alluring in the first place — alternate between a subtle whimper or whisper to a demanding, deep, complex, emotive mix.

Sure, he'll change. He has to. It's the way of life. But, at least for now anyway, he can still get the job done!
Old 05-29-2009, 05:37 AM   #28
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Re: Maynard's singing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
I feel you, Cheese. I appreciate what you're saying. I feel the same way in some respects.

When I saw Tool in Columbus, Ohio, in Sept. 2006 Maynard was getting over an illness and just getting his voice back. He sounded really good and attempted to nail the end of "Vicarious." He got up pretty high, but his voice went out on the last couple syllables of the word "Vicariously." I was shocked he even attempted it and really appreciated the fact that he did.

When I saw Tool again in Cincinnati in July 2007, he didn't even attempt it. He held the mic out for the crowd to sing it — and you could just tell intuitively that he doesn't like to do that. I've heard recordings where he's nailed it, too. Some days your voice is stronger than others.

Anyway, I think we all need to accept the fact that Maynard's voice simply can't be as powerful in his 40s as it was in his 20s and early 30s. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he can't sing. On the contrary, he still sings very well and he still has the ability to do what made him so alluring in the first place — alternate between a subtle whimper or whisper to a demanding, deep, complex, emotive mix.

Sure, he'll change. He has to. It's the way of life. But, at least for now anyway, he can still get the job done!
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Inner_Eulogy's Avatar Inner_Eulogy
05-29-2009, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
I agree however, him changing up his style to accomodate his lesser vocal range is necessary. I'd much rather him do that rather than become a lip-sycnhing Britney Spears.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:39 AM   #29
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Re: Maynard's singing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater View Post
Damn.. I hate to say this, but there was a time when I would have hated you for saying what you just said. I mean, Tool is hands down my favorite band, and I respect their musicianship in every way; dissecting their rhythyms, digesting the lyrical content, and holding, in utmost respect, their place in music history. I always will, and hearing your words grates against my soul because of the special place this band has in my heart.

Unfortunately, I expected the "he's changed so the way he sings changed" defense. I'm not saying this couldn't be right, I'm just saying that hearing this as the reason his voice doesn't punch through the mix... well, that excuse runs a little thin over time.

I would love for this to not be the case, but it seems we're asking a lot for there to be a truly audible and coherent vocal presence in Tool's music these days. I have hours and hours of recordings from nearly all the years they've played. It's tough for me to say this, but you'll see a definite difference in vocal capability, not style, in recent years. Maynard's style has ALWAYS been to blend in with the music, that's what made Tool a different breed of music in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between blending in and being drowned out.

Although the two shows I saw from last tour had some moments, don't get me wrong, the man can sing his heart out, there was still many moments I felt a lacking vocal presence. To the point of it being a little unnerving on a technical level. As in, you haven't been able to decipher the last minute and a half of his words even though you know the songs word for word. I hate to be the one who says things like this. I would love for Maynard to belt out lyrics in my face so loud it blows my face off just to prove me wrong, but I feel he's no longer in his prime.

I'm only 24 and still learning how this aging process works, but I hold out hope he can still rock our balls off well into his mid to late forties. I feel it's a matter of if he still has that drive to want to push himself like he has in the past. I know he's way past proving himself. Now it's a matter of maintaining a legacy. A legacy so vocally demanding that the only person he has to lose to is himself. Still, these guys have made something iconic for our time, Tool. He is the voice and that's too much a crucial part to have missing in action.
I agree however, him changing up his style to accomodate his lesser vocal range is necessary. I'd much rather him do that rather than become a lip-sycnhing Britney Spears.
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05-29-2009, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Angel on the Sideline View Post
I feel you, Cheese. I appreciate what you're saying. I feel the same way in some respects.

When I saw Tool in Columbus, Ohio, in Sept. 2006 Maynard was getting over an illness and just getting his voice back. He sounded really good and attempted to nail the end of "Vicarious." He got up pretty high, but his voice went out on the last couple syllables of the word "Vicariously." I was shocked he even attempted it and really appreciated the fact that he did.

When I saw Tool again in Cincinnati in July 2007, he didn't even attempt it. He held the mic out for the crowd to sing it — and you could just tell intuitively that he doesn't like to do that. I've heard recordings where he's nailed it, too. Some days your voice is stronger than others.

Anyway, I think we all need to accept the fact that Maynard's voice simply can't be as powerful in his 40s as it was in his 20s and early 30s. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he can't sing. On the contrary, he still sings very well and he still has the ability to do what made him so alluring in the first place — alternate between a subtle whimper or whisper to a demanding, deep, complex, emotive mix.

Sure, he'll change. He has to. It's the way of life. But, at least for now anyway, he can still get the job done!
Another aspect that I haven't seen anybody even consider here is also how far along on a particular tour you've caught him. Ya' gotta put into consideration the fact that his voice will be fresh and stronger at first but after playing so many shows (maybe even just a few at his age) it strains your voice. Singing and screaming night after night for 2-3hrs is fucking hard on your vocal chords. Keeping the vocal chords from hoarsing up and keeping them as fresh as you can is a job all in itself. If you catch him after months of touring you can bet your ass it's even harder on him by that point.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:45 AM   #30
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Angel on the Sideline View Post
I feel you, Cheese. I appreciate what you're saying. I feel the same way in some respects.

When I saw Tool in Columbus, Ohio, in Sept. 2006 Maynard was getting over an illness and just getting his voice back. He sounded really good and attempted to nail the end of "Vicarious." He got up pretty high, but his voice went out on the last couple syllables of the word "Vicariously." I was shocked he even attempted it and really appreciated the fact that he did.

When I saw Tool again in Cincinnati in July 2007, he didn't even attempt it. He held the mic out for the crowd to sing it — and you could just tell intuitively that he doesn't like to do that. I've heard recordings where he's nailed it, too. Some days your voice is stronger than others.

Anyway, I think we all need to accept the fact that Maynard's voice simply can't be as powerful in his 40s as it was in his 20s and early 30s. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he can't sing. On the contrary, he still sings very well and he still has the ability to do what made him so alluring in the first place — alternate between a subtle whimper or whisper to a demanding, deep, complex, emotive mix.

Sure, he'll change. He has to. It's the way of life. But, at least for now anyway, he can still get the job done!
Another aspect that I haven't seen anybody even consider here is also how far along on a particular tour you've caught him. Ya' gotta put into consideration the fact that his voice will be fresh and stronger at first but after playing so many shows (maybe even just a few at his age) it strains your voice. Singing and screaming night after night for 2-3hrs is fucking hard on your vocal chords. Keeping the vocal chords from hoarsing up and keeping them as fresh as you can is a job all in itself. If you catch him after months of touring you can bet your ass it's even harder on him by that point.
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Kody27
05-29-2009, 06:56 AM
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Gotta disagree on the stinkfist scream. I have a couple recordings where he screams really loud and a few where it sounds very phoned-in. Kinda like a "hut" type noise.
hence the word, usually. i have a recording where he just screams for 2 seconds and cuts it off. like he felt his vocal chords collapsing and decided not to follow through with it.
Old 05-29-2009, 06:56 AM   #31
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Tool Aenema11 View Post
Gotta disagree on the stinkfist scream. I have a couple recordings where he screams really loud and a few where it sounds very phoned-in. Kinda like a "hut" type noise.
hence the word, usually. i have a recording where he just screams for 2 seconds and cuts it off. like he felt his vocal chords collapsing and decided not to follow through with it.
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Cheesegreater
05-29-2009, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for the input guys. I mean this guy's my fucking idol, and I'm certainly not hating on him. I was just wanting some explanation for the occasional short-coming. I've always thought Maynard plays the hardest instrument in the band, his voice. I mean, I know he's there with the likes of Danny Carey, but one uses physical might and dexterity, while the other uses soft tissue and other touchy-feely apparatuses to make his sound. I caught him in Dallas just after being sick, still a good show, then the other time he had been touring for over a straight year.

I'm actually excited to see what it'll be like without him being utterly exhausted from extensive touring or just getting over being sick. I think he'll be blowing our minds this tour. I've got a good feeling.
Old 05-29-2009, 10:20 AM   #32
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Re: Maynard's singing

Thanks for the input guys. I mean this guy's my fucking idol, and I'm certainly not hating on him. I was just wanting some explanation for the occasional short-coming. I've always thought Maynard plays the hardest instrument in the band, his voice. I mean, I know he's there with the likes of Danny Carey, but one uses physical might and dexterity, while the other uses soft tissue and other touchy-feely apparatuses to make his sound. I caught him in Dallas just after being sick, still a good show, then the other time he had been touring for over a straight year.

I'm actually excited to see what it'll be like without him being utterly exhausted from extensive touring or just getting over being sick. I think he'll be blowing our minds this tour. I've got a good feeling.
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Elton John
05-29-2009, 03:13 PM
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The fact that maynard cant sing as well as he used to...makes those little moments in concert where he does hit the note and you can tell he put his all into it that much better and more special. He is my hero as well, but people need to be honest and admit that he cant sing or scream as well as he did in the 90s...these are jus tthe facts that people need to come to terms with.

The reason why i say this is because i have some friends who enjoy TooL mainly because of how awesome maynard sounds on Aenima/Lateralus etc...and if you go to a TooL concert and expect maynard to sound as good as he does on the CD's you are going to be very dissapointed.

My girlfriend is going to see TooL for her first time this July in dallas and i made sure i showed her maynard's singing from the 10k days tour...and not just the highlights of his awesome voice from the 90's. I did this because you need to give a new fan an idea of what they should expect vocally from maynard. ALL the instruments are spot on at EVERY show i have ever seen. Maynard is the only part of the band that can be dissapointing if you go there with unrealistic expectations.
Old 05-29-2009, 03:13 PM   #33
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Re: Maynard's singing

The fact that maynard cant sing as well as he used to...makes those little moments in concert where he does hit the note and you can tell he put his all into it that much better and more special. He is my hero as well, but people need to be honest and admit that he cant sing or scream as well as he did in the 90s...these are jus tthe facts that people need to come to terms with.

The reason why i say this is because i have some friends who enjoy TooL mainly because of how awesome maynard sounds on Aenima/Lateralus etc...and if you go to a TooL concert and expect maynard to sound as good as he does on the CD's you are going to be very dissapointed.

My girlfriend is going to see TooL for her first time this July in dallas and i made sure i showed her maynard's singing from the 10k days tour...and not just the highlights of his awesome voice from the 90's. I did this because you need to give a new fan an idea of what they should expect vocally from maynard. ALL the instruments are spot on at EVERY show i have ever seen. Maynard is the only part of the band that can be dissapointing if you go there with unrealistic expectations.
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05-29-2009, 09:24 PM
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hence the word, usually. i have a recording where he just screams for 2 seconds and cuts it off. like he felt his vocal chords collapsing and decided not to follow through with it.
I'm just saying I have heard a couple where he doesn't even attempt a scream there. Which worries me a tad..
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:24 PM   #34
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by Kody27 View Post
hence the word, usually. i have a recording where he just screams for 2 seconds and cuts it off. like he felt his vocal chords collapsing and decided not to follow through with it.
I'm just saying I have heard a couple where he doesn't even attempt a scream there. Which worries me a tad..
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One Dark Flame's Avatar One Dark Flame
05-29-2009, 09:26 PM
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10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.

And Lateralus is my favorite guitar work of all times. But i can see how you can say its danny's. I for one believe that was TooL at the climax and pinnacle of their prime. Every song on Lateralus is perfect and it is the most spritual album i have ever heard, and im not even spiritual lol.
I gotta say I felt like "Lateralus" was Justin's album. I didn't really feel like any owned 10K, but DC was really held back on that album.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:26 PM   #35
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Re: Maynard's singing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.

And Lateralus is my favorite guitar work of all times. But i can see how you can say its danny's. I for one believe that was TooL at the climax and pinnacle of their prime. Every song on Lateralus is perfect and it is the most spritual album i have ever heard, and im not even spiritual lol.
I gotta say I felt like "Lateralus" was Justin's album. I didn't really feel like any owned 10K, but DC was really held back on that album.
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0ctopod's Avatar 0ctopod
05-30-2009, 10:12 AM
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10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.
I see your point, but to me Justin hasn't let up at all since he joined the band. His bass sound has basically amazed and anchored everything (along with the drumming) since Forty-six & 2. It's the other members that have taken turns, so to speak.

With Maynard, I don't really think it matters much that his voice is deteriorating. All that matters is that he's an artist working with the tools he has available. There's no need, really, for him to prove anything at this point.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:12 AM   #36
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Re: Maynard's singing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton John View Post
10k dyas is Adam's? Wow i totally disagree. I think Justin CHancellor definately was the focal point on 10kdays more than any other album.
I see your point, but to me Justin hasn't let up at all since he joined the band. His bass sound has basically amazed and anchored everything (along with the drumming) since Forty-six & 2. It's the other members that have taken turns, so to speak.

With Maynard, I don't really think it matters much that his voice is deteriorating. All that matters is that he's an artist working with the tools he has available. There's no need, really, for him to prove anything at this point.
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Angel on the Sideline
06-02-2009, 05:51 AM
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I see your point, but to me Justin hasn't let up at all since he joined the band. His bass sound has basically amazed and anchored everything (along with the drumming) since Forty-six & 2. It's the other members that have taken turns, so to speak.

With Maynard, I don't really think it matters much that his voice is deteriorating. All that matters is that he's an artist working with the tools he has available. There's no need, really, for him to prove anything at this point.
Well said, Octo. Well said.
Old 06-02-2009, 05:51 AM   #37
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Re: Maynard's singing

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Originally Posted by 0ctopod View Post
I see your point, but to me Justin hasn't let up at all since he joined the band. His bass sound has basically amazed and anchored everything (along with the drumming) since Forty-six & 2. It's the other members that have taken turns, so to speak.

With Maynard, I don't really think it matters much that his voice is deteriorating. All that matters is that he's an artist working with the tools he has available. There's no need, really, for him to prove anything at this point.
Well said, Octo. Well said.
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