not sure , i think lateralus is a masterpiece and by far Tool´s best album it is perfect but this song i dunno, great drums, vocals are strange i dont like them really or do i?...what really kills me is thst looong gap i dont see it´s point...
Yeah, in the order of songs it always seemed out of place. It comes right after Parabola, which is a very positive sounding song. Then comes a song that pretty much says "fuck you, bastards!"
Ticks & Leeches is a hard fucker. I'll give you that. However, it has the Lateralus vibe. Lateralus has always been an escape album for me, and I don't think the "fuck you" message is inconsistent with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles
The long soft part is the coolest thing of the song, especially with the explosion at the end.
yeah very good points on this one. Lateralus is definatley an escape album, each song ties together, perhaps not in theme, but in feeling and mood brilliantly. for that reason probly has to be my favourite album. the song is probably the most hardcore vocally, but that is just emphasising the disgust in what the song is talking about,
__________________ A Groan Of Tedium Escapes Me
Don't get big ideas, they are not going to happen.
This song reminds me much of "Swamp Song." Follows the same sort of 'angry' lyrics and where can you find ticks and leeches? The swamps might be a good place to start.....anyone else share this possibly meaningless thought?
__________________ Reality is irrelevant, Perception is everything.
I think that this song fits in just fine. The lyrics are consistently positive until this song in which maynard is reverting to his old manner of thought. He shows that he still slips like everyone else.
I can see why someone would think this song is out of place... but even the most enlightened person goes through some sort of turmoil...
to me it shows that they are still human... they still get have emotions, they get angry and want to yell at someone, despite all the meditation and good intentions.
it symbolizes how you want to be peaceful but then there are those people who are ticks and leeches. which the middle part is him trying to calm down, but then he can't take anymore and just lets it all go which then you feel better then comes dispostion which is calm.
basically don't bottle up your anger, let it go.
__________________ I live to share what i see around this world.
Not believing in things won't make it happen because you don't believe it will.
This song is one of my top 3 favorite Tool songs......and has been since the first time I heard it.......to me it "fits in" perfectly, in exactly the right spot on this album.
"People less developed in their evolutionary growth tend to bring in much more energy than they give out. In weakness or illness, people may pull in energy from more vitalized or developed people. Those who feel weak, depleted, or have a low self-image may be very strongly affected by others' energies, actually drawing on others, in which case they are called "sappers". This name is unfair in some instances because the act of pulling energy from others may make the difference in healing and getting enough strength to go ahead; it is a wonderful thing to be able to give energy to those who need it. Giving is part of our practice of visting ill or depressed friends. We "give" energy from our chakras to theirs to help them.
Giving strengthens us; when energy is pulled or sucked from us, we can be weakened. There are people who habitually suck energy from others rather than develop their own; these may truely be called sappers."
Kundalini and the Chakras (pg 59-60)
by Genevieve Lewis Paulson
I don't think it's out of place. You consider a song like The Grudge to start the album. That's not the most positive song either. I mean the resolution of the song is ultimately to "Let Go", but next to Ticks it's probably the heaviest on the album (though both Lateralus and Parabola have their heavy parts as well). The message in broad terms is how you need to let go of the grudge or it'll consume you. It doesn't say you have to forgive and find a positive resolution, just move on.
The Grudge shows how sometimes you just have to let go.
Schism shows that you need to communicate to makes things work.
Ticks and Leeches shows that some people are just parasites and aren't worth the trouble.
In one of the older interviews with Maynard you can find on YouTube, he says how a lot of people confuse their songs message, thinking it's hate, but he states it's anger, not hate. Anger is a powerful emotion that can produce positive results, where hate is about the negative. I think that's where this song falls with the anger, not hate.
There's a broad range of human emotions, and it's not good to bottle them up. Though there is a generally positive message on this album "Let Go" "I know the pieces fit" "spiral out". But with all of that, don't take any shit from those ticks and leeches out there.
In the end it still ends up as a positive message for the one saying "I hope you choke" It's going to be a positive to get those types out of your life.
I've rambled for a long time. As far as sonically, I think it makes a good bridge for the middle of the album.
How about 46&2 (freak'n evolution!) followed by Message.. and Hooker..
T&L belongs where it is.
__________________ And so what you're saying when you say 'I understand it intellectually, but I don't get it intuitively,' or 'I don't feel it in my bones,' is that you understand it in the sense of being able to repeat a form of words.
when i listen to lateralus, i feel t&l is an update, on any new feelings to the world that have arisen in me since the start of the album. i think without that i would get to full in the middle of the album, this is a good release for me
Lateralus perfectly fits the front cover. It's an amazing song. Probably my 3rd favorite (it's not listed that way in my profile, but seriously, it's a favorite).
Lateralus just has...idk...a vibe that no other tool song has.
+as a bonus the intro to this song is played a most home Charlotte Checkers games (ECHL Hockey League), so I pretty much freak out every time this song is played.
There is really no song that compares to Lateralus. It is in a class of it's own.
I always thought this song fit so well due to a lack of anger on the rest of the album. ***, the rest of Lateralus doesn't portray much anger at all, especially compared to previous albums, and then we get to Ticks&Leeches, which I think is angry enough on its own to balance out the rest of the album :). Like they took all of their anger on this one and put it all into one track ;)
I think a good relative to compare the transition from Parabola to Ticks & Leaches would be "I Do Not Want This" thru "A Warm Place" off The Downward Spiral (By Nine Inch Nails, though I don't think many people here need that spelled out for them).
"I Do Not Want This" is definitely angry, as many posts have been focusing on that mood, but so is the whole album. But when it transitions into "Big Man With A Gun", IDNWT pales in comparison to BMWAG. And then of course, BMWAG just ends, without warning, and A Warm Place starts.
When you listen to T&L, you get that old "Undertow" feeling, and alot of listeners that I know have somewhat shyed away from Tool because they don't get that alot anymore.
Anyway, back to point, listeners (myself included) felt that out of place vibe about T&L when I first listened to Lateralus from beginning to end. I think it's only to place emphasis on the message of the song instead of overloading the listener with that mood throughout the whole album.
After all, how many songs after "Big Man With A Gun" on TDS carry that kind of angry, violent, mean, evil, heavy overtone?
Personally, Triad sounds too much like it could be the ending of a movie. I find it hard to believe that it's part of the disposition-reflection trinity.
It's reminds of Maynard's Dick, a song that is completely random to end an album.
Personally, Triad sounds too much like it could be the ending of a movie. I find it hard to believe that it's part of the disposition-reflection trinity.
It's reminds of Maynard's Dick, a song that is completely random to end an album.
Man... I love Triad. I mean, I'll admit it took me forever to come around to it, but comparing it to Maynard's Dick is wrong. Three chord country sounding song, compared to Triad. If it makes you feel any better it's primarily a drum ensemble. And towards the end it has some insanely fast chording on the bass and guitar. They're basically doubling-up and playing very fast changes together at the same time. Also, the song is mostly like 7 or minutes of nothing but drum rolls.
T&L is not out of place. For such a spiritual album it really grounds things in reality expressing emotions like this at some point in the album. Or else it'd just be to hippyish. Kidding, of course.
hey, i skip this track everytime!
but hey if you make it through this track you are rewarded with the greatest song ever written (opinions are assholes...)
Man... I love Triad. I mean, I'll admit it took me forever to come around to it, but comparing it to Maynard's Dick is wrong. Three chord country sounding song, compared to Triad. If it makes you feel any better it's primarily a drum ensemble. And towards the end it has some insanely fast chording on the bass and guitar. They're basically doubling-up and playing very fast changes together at the same time. Also, the song is mostly like 7 or minutes of nothing but drum rolls.
T&L is not out of place. For such a spiritual album it really grounds things in reality expressing emotions like this at some point in the album. Or else it'd just be to hippyish. Kidding, of course.
I compared it to Maynard's dick not out of similarity of song, but by placement of the song on the CD. Look at Salival. (*stares*eyeballs pop out*needs a doctor): The entire CD is a very serious album. You Lied, Merkaba, No Quarter, even LAMC. But then, just to fuck with us, Maynard throws in something of the complete opposite spectrum. It went from dark and meditative, to absolute WTF.
Now look at Triad: I could meditate to every song. But then I get to Triad (Faaip doesn't count - I don't usually play this track)- and it seems out of place when measured against schism and parabol(a).
I absolutely adore Ticks & Leeches. Well, Laturalus is my favorite album and I adore every song on it, but Ticks especially so- the Parabol(a) / Ticks / Laturalus set is what makes it my favorite.
I read that they almost never play Ticks live, due to the strain on his voice, and when they do, they couple it with heavy distortion to ease said strain. I was told once that after recording this song, Maynard was unable to sing for three weeks, and I don't doubt it. You can practically hear his throat bleeding.
The part that touches me about the song isn't what he's saying; it's how he's saying it. It's the velocity. The words he sings, he says he'll give everything, take it, take it all, take it until he has nothing left for you to take, and he literally gives until he's incapable of giving- singing- any futher.
To me, Ticks is one of Tool's most powerful songs, and for a powerful band, that's saying a lot.
It wasn't just a song, it was a sacrifice.
__________________ I am Yin and Yang: female and male; water and fire; dark and light; void and matter; night and day; passive and aggressive; valley and mountain.
I'm also really really confused and totally on top of things.
This song used to sound out of place until I really thought about why it was put there.
I don't think Maynard in any way reverted back to his old way of thinking.
This song shows that he will always be exactly who he is.
To the fans who were hoping for more Aenima, Undertow, or Opiate and don't care for Lateralus, he's saying, then "I hope you choke on this."
So if they are against evolution or change, they'll probably choke on the style of Lateralus.
For people who can't accept the merciful theme like the sort of divine grace that it is, then go ahead and enjoy choking as the sweet nectar of Parabola changes into the severity of Ticks and Leeches. The contrast is why the choking reflex would arise.
Like dropping a habanero in someone's ice cream.
I absolutely adore Ticks & Leeches. Well, Laturalus is my favorite album and I adore every song on it, but Ticks especially so- the Parabol(a) / Ticks / Laturalus set is what makes it my favorite.
I read that they almost never play Ticks live, due to the strain on his voice, and when they do, they couple it with heavy distortion to ease said strain. I was told once that after recording this song, Maynard was unable to sing for three weeks, and I don't doubt it. You can practically hear his throat bleeding.
The part that touches me about the song isn't what he's saying; it's how he's saying it. It's the velocity. The words he sings, he says he'll give everything, take it, take it all, take it until he has nothing left for you to take, and he literally gives until he's incapable of giving- singing- any futher.
To me, Ticks is one of Tool's most powerful songs, and for a powerful band, that's saying a lot.
It wasn't just a song, it was a sacrifice.
Fucking excellent Kaienne!
Someone should start a thread about Ticks being the sacrifice of the album.
This Track has for years been working the likes of Parobala ,Schism, and Reflection out of the top three of my personal fav.'s , I can now say it's top three ( on an awsome album mind you)possibly #2 on my list. It's like a little slice of OPIATE in the middle of the newer more recent works. Just listen to the DAMN drums Danny you are C-RaZEE !!!!
I really don't think Triad is out of place at all.
Lateralus is a fairly lateral album, hence the name. Though every song seems to have the same overall vibe, they all work together to create the overall image.
Triad feels like a release to me, which is why I like it a lot. The music just makes it feel like it's cleansing us of our daily stresses through a static, intangible therapy that is simply sublime.
Some people, on the other hand, might get a headache from the song, heh, and I can really see why. I guess it's just a matter of outlook.
Last edited by dxs; 05-12-2008 at 12:12 PM..
Reason: typooooo!
I do think this song is out of place, it would have seemed a lot better fit if it was right after The Grudge. The Grudge ends with a lot of intensity and would have felt right to go from that into Tick & Leeches. And then going from the end of Ticks & Leeches to Eon Blue Apocalypse would feel a lot better than going into Lateralus. Going from Parabola to Lateralus just feels a lot better anyway.
In terms of the story of the album, it doesn't really go anywhere else. You can't have a final hateful breakdown in a connection to another person, and then resolve to patiently wait out maintaining that connection, for example.
Well, does Triad seem sort of like a final hateful breakdown to you?
I can see where you could be going with that, however---it would seem really weird if there was some song after Triad like nothing had happened.
Triad is a very strong song, and the silence after it is obviously intentional.
<><>
Heh, Fatbox, your song lineup for Lateralus wouldn't be Lateralus anymore...it would be FatBox's mix CD, which you are free to do if you have a computer and a burnt CD. :)
Well, [i]thank you[i] for sharing your interpretation. It's a nice perspective to think through; though, of course, there's a lot of vague spots to be filled, as usual.
It seems to me that after breaking down the connection to others in T&L, the narrator then breaks down the connection with his own ego in the following tracks. Basically it goes like this:
The album is about connections, relationships with other humans.
The Grudge is the beginning of some bad blood between the two.
The Patient is resolving to power through the bad blood.
Schism is the cold separation that results.
Parabol/a is one last shot at reconciliation...
...but Ticks and Leeches shows that it apparently doesn't go as planned.
Lateralus represents the beginning of a search for something more real.
Disposition is the entrance to a meditative state.
Reflection is what transpires during it - a realization that he must separate himself from his own ego.
Triad is that seperation.
Faaip de Oiad is the reminder that there is indeed something beyond that.
FIN
Hmm, yeah that makes sense. Is this really what they wanted to do though? Or are we just looking too deep? All of their albums have a type of "setting" or "feeling" to the album, for example, Aenima = pissed off and fuck the world, Lateralus = spiritual journey, 10,000 Days = reality hits, but do you think they intended each album to actually tell a chronological story?
Hmm, yeah that makes sense. Is this really what they wanted to do though? Or are we just looking too deep? All of their albums have a type of "setting" or "feeling" to the album, for example, Aenima = pissed off and fuck the world, Lateralus = spiritual journey, 10,000 Days = reality hits, but do you think they intended each album to actually tell a chronological story?
I agree.
Songs are written to seem chronological, but really, I believe they depict a theme and topic in general, which why I was previously stating that Rivek's thought seemed a bit vague.
Of course, that doesn't mean he can't be right. None of us really know if we're right or not.
Last edited by dxs; 05-16-2008 at 02:31 PM..
Reason: I hate this. >:O
Take this little rant and you have one bad ass song called Ticks & Leeches...
__________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the former." - Einstein http://opiumtest.blogspot.com
I think that the order of the tracks lend themselves to such a conclusion. I can't imagine a band as far-looking and deep-thinking as Tool would just slap their album tracks together in a random order.
The order of songs really can change the meaning of an album in its entirety.
I agree.
