i always thought of it of a man having to leave someone he loves , because he is desctructive in nature, or because staying would be catastrophic. so he is torn.
well thats loosely what the oedipal complex is, except for the whole Great Mother archetype thing, and ego loss etc.
I haven't read this thread yet, except the first post (I'm going to afterwards) I just wanted to say this.
I hate Frued, and I always have. He's not a genius, or deserving of any accolades. He's just a poorly developed individual who really wanted to fuck his mom and thinks all men do. Everything goes back to fucking your mom. I never wanted to fuck my mom, and my taste in women relates to my mother in no way. I love my mom, but I couldn't stand being with another woman like her.
Hw didn't just talk about fucking his mum. He used it as a basis for most human emotions and it DOES make sense. You guys just don't want to admit that yeah you do get those feelings and you have no control over them whatsoever.
All I can say is that Freud had something to offer me. Using his discoveries I was able to grow and evolve into someone greater. Is his psychology 100% correct? Hell no. But the world is full of individuals who apprehended some truth and declared it to be the Whole Truth. Does that mean one should immediately disregard someone like Freud? Again, hell no. In such a case it demands more intelligence and lucidity to perceive where he was correct and where he was not.
As I've mentioned before, it seems that Jung had this cosmic purpose in balancing Freud's doctrines. Taken together their psychologies can provide one powerful TOOL. I find that the most help I received was in reading authors who themselves combined both Freudian and Jungian thought. One great example is "Castration and Male Rage: The Phallic Wound" by Eugene Monick.
And another thing, if a person is unhealthy in any manner, it is up to that individual person to address his insanity. Not only is overwhelming someone with "truth" indecent, it doesn't really work. I know that I've suggested in the past that every male suffers from the so-called Oedipus complex. That suggestion, I'm afraid, was in error. If a person doesn't perceive the complex, then that's that. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't suffer from it but until they stepped up and out, they would never know.
I like to say that my Achilles heel has been this really annoying inability to push unconfrontable data out of my perceptual window. I saw these things operating in my space. And at a particular point, I chose to no longer suppress them but to embrace them. I'm glad I did:)
The Jungian thoery that is supposidly evident in all of the songs off Aenema seems too right to be wrong?
I'm amazed what you peiced together in this thread, very well done.
I was just wondering if you we're going to go more in depth with the other songs off the CD or should I have my philosophy teacher brush up the class on Jung entirely.
yep, i agree. But i am pretty sure my brother's right about the Oedipal complex...these people taking much too practically, getting the father into it (imtheism, im looking at you). In fact, that archetype has not much to do with the general idea of this complex so thats not quite plausible.
Theres something about this thread. JTCrace is almost completely right about everything, im sure, because everything fits. he is one of those intelligent ones that understand almost all their stuff. They all endure unintelligent people that try to contradict them. Some just trashed them (www.geocities.com/noctoadal/), and some people (JTCrace) don't get angry and try to talk with them. Its actually quite funny, because you get this guy saying this dumbass reply and the intelligent replying and trying to explain. I've observed this on this thread. There has been two types of people on this thread. Intelligent (JTCrace, Luna Galapogas, mstajduh, elgyn, whale I etc.) and dumb (metamorphosis, ne pleurez pas etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.), and thankfully the intelligence is talking more, meaning i get my brain fatter and step toward the collective unconscious. Thankyou..talk away!!!!!!!
I feel strongly about my interpretation, and I can say with somewhat certainty that I believe it is correct. I do not think I ever gave the impression that any other interpretation would be ridiculous, only that I wouldn't believe it.
So, Looque, why don't you take the time and effort to explain why you disbelieve my interpretation to be correct. That is why I began this thread. But as you can notice, everyone can knock my view, but yet nobody gives an interpretation of their own (save Zole). Ya' never know, I may change my mind if I encounter something that makes more sense. Never say never.
Like someone else said: I like the thought you've put into it. But I don't know if I think you're correct. Neither should you, when you think about it.
But it's a cool theory, nonetheless. Good job, man.
Personally I've always thought of the lyrics to "Pushit" as written from the point of view of someone who doesn't really want to get to involved in what it means to fully and truly love another person. Someone who doesn't really want to understand or experience the depths of a relationship.
But that's just my theory. Hope it's wrong. Hope it's all fucking wrong, so we all can keep guessing.
This is an excellent interpration of the song.
I don't give a fuck if He had these intentions,
that's excellent.-
I am checking Orestes also.
Oresetes directly references a Greek literature classic, so you'd be better off reading at least a synopsis of that (the Orestia) before you go ahead and whack Jung/Freud on it, although I agree you could do that.
I personally not beleive in any of Freuds ideas. I would hope Maynard doesnt either. The whole idea of man sexually loving his mother is crazy. There is a huge differance between the love of a man and his mother and of a man and his wife. I think this song is about Maynard and his feiance breaking up. I would like this song a lot less if I found out that your interpretaion was correct. Sorry.
I think that Maynard uses "Pushit" as an insight into mental abuse and the effect it has on people when the abuse is coming from the supposed "closest" people to you, your family... Maynard obviously has had past experiences with mental and maybe physical abuse, but I believe he is using "Pushit" in a relevant way to his own experiences. At the end of the song when he says; "Remember I will always love you as I claw your fucking throat away..." I think that in the begining of the song he speaks of the severity of the situation, then goes into a tranquil state of starting to get over the situation then at the end the whole problem is dug up again and he wants nothing more than to survive it? Hence "Survival is my only friend.." Anyways I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this song and it has actually helped me through my deppresing days of adolesence.... Thank you Maynard....
__________________ Remember I will always love you, as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way, it will end no other way....
JTCrace your view on this song is very intresting and inspiring but it seems you are dead set on you accuasation. You believe that this is what it means to you and nothing will change your mind about it (exept your life experiences as you stated before). But just ask yourself this question... Why do you believe all of the things you believe? Is it because what you have learned in your life is the basis for your reasoning behind this song? Then how can you even make an accusation if you dont even know why you believe in your beliefs? Have you found your "self" by elminating everything you have ever been tought, told and influenced by? If so more power too you. But i think you should be a little more flexable for other views of this song. All anyone can base their reasoning on is their life experiences which we all differ from eachother. Besides that i think you have done an exalent job in comming up with a strong interpretation of this song and i see you have put a lot of time into the thought. Please share your ideas with the rest of us as it has become a pleasure.
I always thought that this song was mjk talking about how he (or anyone) changed over time.
peace--------------and Goodbye
I gave up on accepting specific meanings to any of these intentionally ambiguous lyrics, but I have to say this idea is the only one I've read on this site that really struck me, especially considering Nards' apparent ego-centric mind....that is the one I quoted, not the mommy sex one.
And what is it the wise men said about dudes that attach themselves to intellectual authority figures (like those freud and jung guys...or maybe that maynard dude) to interpret their world and create security blanket self esteem? Oh, I remember, not a god-damn thing. Oh well, maybe they said something about bloated pretense and the people who copulate with it, you know...sexually...with their moms...
__________________ I packaged up dicks and balls to serve at Freddie Mercury's PumpFest '79 just so I could measure the conductivity spectrum of sweaty balls relative to the respective stages of Man Love.
Ever dreamed that you had sex with your mother?
I did, and the horrible thing in my dream that it wasnt unnatural and disgusting. But when I woke up, I almost threw up.
I think your interpretation has/if not all meaning that author had in mind.
...and you theory is FUCKING CORRECT!
LISTEN UP!
Put Aenima Cd, and a very GOOD headphones.
Press track 11, that is PUSHIT.
Go to abouth 4:47 time track right before the "...push me I dont wann stay" part begins.
You can clearly hear an infants voicing that will continue thru this part before Adams solo begins.
I think that some ppl on here need to kill their egos. Why can't we all just express our opinions without having to bash on other's. It is completely counterintuitive to what music is all about. You should find your own meaning in it. I respect jtcrace's opinion, I myself do not agree with it, but I do respect it, like I would want someone else to respect my opinion even if they didn't agree with it.
__________________ Fuck L. Ron Hubberd and fuck all his clones
Fuck all these gun toting hip gangster wannabes
-Aenima
there's kind of a reason freud is panned by everyone- he was full of shit
i like some of your ideas, you can really take these songs as deep as you want to but that doesnt necessarily mean thats what maynard meant.
i remember watching an old live video from the undertow days, still with paul, and maynard announced the next song as a love song. adam then started playing pushit....
i remember watching an old live video from the undertow days, still with paul, and maynard announced the next song as a love song. adam then started playing pushit....
Maynard's also kinda of a smart ass...
__________________ Fuck L. Ron Hubberd and fuck all his clones
Fuck all these gun toting hip gangster wannabes
-Aenima
I don't know. While all of this super pyschology stuff is a valid interpretation based on what's there.. I just think that this song is about an abusive relationship and gaining awareness of the true problem with them. The pushing and shoving is the like give and take in a relationship but maynard's word choice is important here. He's saying pushing and shoving. His choice of words is clearly stronger. The relationship is like an addiction. It's really not good for him or her anymore but they get drawn back to the headfuck of it all. They continue despite the adverse consequences. They love one another and want to be together but despite their efforts, it's just not working. Throughout the song he recognizes that the relationship is totally fucked up but he's at that pivotal point where he's realized that it's no good for him but it's time to take action. He says he may fade like a sigh but yet she still wants him to say. He gets that true love isn't about that. True love isn't about being scared to be alone and it's certainly not about what's good for one person in the relationship. He can either get sucked back into the vicious cycle of this back and forth dysfunctional bullshit (this is the part about standing over the gap with hands on his back) because she's pushing him into it or he can stand up and make his move. And clearly the last verse is directed right at her... he loves her but she's done.
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Re: I hope this doesn't piss Maynard off!
Maynard's songs are filled with "pseudo-meaningful" lessons and stories. Still, you can't deny the fact that this might be one of the most thought out threads I've ever seen here...
Maynard sits down at his computer. For some reason today he looks at the Tool-Opinion thread.
"What the hell is this crap?" At this points he either groans loudly or bursts into a fit of laughter.
Now, you're all entitled to your opinion, but I think it's stupid that people think every Tool song has some deep hidden meaning. I mean, yeah, Tool do think of some pretty cool things. Deep, and stuff like that. But who says it has to be complicated? You guys are blowing things way out of proportions here! I mean, the way you put it it sounds like some religious propaganda. In the end, I bet Tool intended this song to be about getting a job as a garbage man. Boy, won't you feel silly then.
*This is mainly aimed at the author of the thread. Also, don't flame me, I'm not trying to insult anyone.*
See? Dancingflame's interpretation is the best. Obviously. And Paraflux's is pretty cool too.
Didn't Maynard talk about his "reflection" in the song Brena off the Mer de Noms Album?
Is this a symbol he uses in different songs to reference the same person?
"What is this but my REFLECTION. Who am i to judge or strap u down?" Pushit/Aenima/Tool
"My REFLECTION Wraps and pulls me under healing waters to be Bathed in Brena" Brena/Mer de Noms/APC
Before I even considered this I'd always thought the song was about a relationship going sour.
I think it might be a love song, or better, an "unraveling of a relationship" type love song.
Whether or not this is what MJK meant when he wrote this song doesn't matter. JTCrace saw it as this. The same way you look at literature and poetry and analyze and think about it, you do with Tool because the possibility of greater significance is definitely there.
Good interpretation.
There is no 'right' interpretation and you supported your claim with evidence--big up yourself.
I think everyone here has amazing insight however, my belief is none of us will ever truely "know" what the artist was inspired by when he wrote this piece. The words & music are so powerful & provokes us to think...I mean really think. Honestly, I don't want to know what was the inspiration behind this song or any of tool's art. All of their gifts (music) mean different things to me & I truely appreciate the amount of care they give each piece.
Personally, I feel that Pushit relates to a relationship that is not good for either person. The gap may be the edge of dispair/depression that may be present because of the self destructive manner in which the "first person" interacts with the other. I do think it could also relate to the disfunctional way our society deals with relationships in general, how self centered & insecure we have all become. At least that is what it this piece means to me.
1.) "I will choke until I swallow..." What could he be choking on? The placental fluid? Maynard is fighting against his Oedipal tendencies, he his choking. And he will continue choking until he realizes the situation at hand.
2.) "Choke this infant here before me." Again, another allusion to the womb. Symbolically, he is in the womb, as an infant, and choking. In many ways he has remained an infant. Though he may have physically matured, he has not psychologically matured.
3.) "What is this but my reflection?" All these events are an inner phenomenon. The physical world is acting as a reflection. He is not dealing with his personal mother anymore. He is dealing with his psyche, his psychological reality.
4.) "Who am I to judge or strike you down?" Many times, as a male struggles with these issues he will lash out at his personal mother. He will punish her. He will yell, he will strike her down. But keep in mind, he is only projecting the Mother Archetype onto his personal mother. It is essential that he come to the realization that these thing in all truth have nothing to do with his personal mother. He must take responsibility for what has gone on within himself. He will never solve anything if he continues to blame his personal mother.
5.) "But you're pushing me and shoving me. You still love me and push it on me." He struggles with his projection. She seems to love him, but she pushes her love upon him. She pushes herself, emotionally, physically and spiritually upon him.
6.) "Rest your trigger on my finger." This is where he directly refers to the Oedipus complex. What is a woman's trigger? Her clit. He has having fantasies. He wants her. She wants him.
7.) "Bang my head upon your fault line." This one should be obvious by now. One time I explained this song to my drum instructor, who is from LA, and has visited the San Andreas fault line, he said, "Yep, it does look like a big ole vagina."
8.) "Take care not to make me enter. 'Cause if I do we both may disappear." If his Oedipal Complex is allowed full reign, his ego will vanish. His consciousness will be lost. I used to have terrifying, paralyzing dreams about this when I was a kid. With a severe Oedipal complex, a boy's masculinity does not just come into question, his entire existence comes into question.
9.) "Slipping back into that gap again." He wants an ego, he wants to be a man. But mommy is too tempting. He begins to backslide. He wants to feel her secure and comforting embrace. He wants to jump into her big, symbolic vagina, "the gap."
10.) "I'm alive when you're touching me," As much as he doesn't want it, mommy still makes him feel ecstatic, euphoric, alive.
11.) "Alive when you're shoving me down." But underneath his Oedipal desire, he knows he wants something else, something more. He knows in the end, she will only bring him down.
12.) "But I'd trade it all, for just a little, piece of mind." A wonderful play on words here. A piece of mind is an ego, a psychological reality that belongs to him, that has nothing to do with his mom. He would trade all his mom can offer him, to become a man. A deliberate disconnection.
13.) "Put me somewhere I don't wanna be. Seeing someplace I don't want to see. Never wanna see that place again." He has nearly entered the gap. This line in the song completely sums up my thoughts about the dreams I used to have. But Maynard now makes a resolution. This is the first time in the song he has behaved like a man. He makes a decision that he will stick to.
14.) "Saw that gap again today as you were begging me to stay." He is again tempted. His mother begs him to stay. We can see this literally in a mother's struggle when her son wishes to leave the home.
15.) "Managed to push myself away, and you as well." He has stuck to his resolution. He will not again fall into the gap. But when he refuses to enter, he pushes his mother away as well.
16.) "If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay," He knows that if he doesn't deal with his Oedipal complex, he will never amount to anything, he will never become a man, he will simply fade away.
17.) "You minimize my movements anyway," He cannot talk his way out of this. She will only continue to seduce him. He alludes to the concept of movement here. Movement is a quality indicative of masculinity. She will coninue to damper his budding masculinity.
18.) "I must persuade you another way." The time for words is over, it is now the time for action. Here begins a symbolic battle. He must fight the dragon.
19.) "There is no love in fear." This is his battle cry. The threat of castration, the threat of losing his ego, there is no love there, that is only fear.
20.) "Staring down the hole again. Hands upon my back again" Here again is another allusion to the vagina. He feels defenseless, like he always has. He must overcome. He must cut loose the binds that tie him.
21.) "Survival is my only friend. Terrified of what may come." Anyone who has had similar experiences as the ones depicted in these lyrics will know the exquisite terror and relief and wonder when one has freed one's self from the choking grip of the Great Mother. There is no one there to help him. He is alone, finally, alone.
22.) "Just remember I will always love you," He will never stop loving his mother, the personal one and the archetypal one. In fact, everything he is doing is out of love.
23.) "Even as I claw your fucking throat away." Here is a direct allusion to the slaying of the dragon, the Ouroboros.
24.) "It will end no other way." There are no pills to take here. No Prozac can save you. Nothing will solve this for him but the slaying of the dragon. He must say goodbye to mommy.
You see, only now can he really develop a relationship with his Anima. The Great Mother has been slain, now Maynard may experience the feminine in different ways. His Anima will bring him closer and closer to the unconscious, to God. She will help him, "Pry open his Third Eye." But you see, everything moves in circles. The Ouroboros is a closed system. So, paradoxically, slaying the dragon is the only way to really have sex with your mother. Get it?
Now I am going to go into my backyard, slip Salival into my CD player, look up at the cosmos and go on a warrior's journey with Maynard. God bless these four guys as they again bring a myth alive. Their music has truly been a light for me, leading me into the darkness, guiding me towards unconsciousness, and again, into the light.
I must say that the bands objective has worked better than i ever imagined it would. I find it has nothing to do with whether or not this is right or wrong, but as to come up with ur own idea of what it could mean. There is no absolute answer that is 100% right because they say that themselves. As long as you are creating and thinking for urself then the band has succeeded.
yesterday i listened to the song for the thousands or so time in my life and i suddenly had an idea....
Pushit= push shit = shittin
I will choke until I swallow...
Choke this infant here before me.
you eat, the food is an infant- when its grown up it becomes shit
What is this but my reflection?
Who am I to judge and strike you down?
ok? you shit and reflect about it- shit = reflection of food
But you're
Pushing and shoving me.
You still love me and you pushit on me.
should be as obvious- c`mon you push the shit- and you love the food
Rest your trigger on my finger,
bang my head upon the fault line.
Take care not to make me enter.
'cause if I do we both may disappear.
youcant hold up the feeling that you have to shit- sooner or later you`ll have to
(now you have to imagine the "mr.hanky"-perspective- what I mean is the shit sings this parts)
But you're pushing me,
Shoving me. Pushit on me.
But i'd trade it all
For just a little bit of
Piece of mind.
you know the feeling when you either have to shit really hard- but you cant cuz theres no toilet around or something
Put me somewhere I don't wanna be.
Seeing someplace I don't wanna see.
Never wanna see that place again.
now the piece opf shit drops into the toilet (listen to the music- like flushing down something)
Saw that gap again today
As you were begging me to stay.
Managed to push myself away,
And you, as well.
If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay,
You minimize my movement anyway,
I must persuade you another way.
if you try to hold up the shit you can hardly move as freely as you can when not in that urge :)
There's no love in fear.
Staring down the (ass)hole again. - mr.hanky`s perspective again- he`s afraid to be dropped in the cold & ugly toilet again- he knows the gam
Hands upon my back again.
Survival is my only friend.
Terrified of what may come.
terrified- cuz it is in the "gap" between the anal-inside and the "toilet"outside
Just remember I will always love you,
Even as I tear your fucking throat away.
But it will end no other way.
dont take it too serious - just another stupid funny interpretation + xcuse ma stupidd english
as wierd as that may sound...i agree with you a 100% nice break-down of the song
Lots of great posts, a good education for myself regarding the oedipus complex. I think that JC did a great job formulating his theories of the meaning of the song's lyrics. It would be pretty remarkable if the lyrics did indeed correlate with the ego/ mother conflict. I don't fully agree with this......but great thought put into this thread. My opinion is that the lyrics simply reflect conflict within relationships.
And yes, I did wanna bang my mom when I was little.
If this was freudian pschology, i am very disappointed. I would hope the band would not conjure up a song based on a theory of some quack...yah have fun w\ that..I would hope they would be a bit more creative and innovative.....sorry, i hope thomas knight is wrong(for many reasons though)
I don't like this thread because it seems the OP based his thoughts on an incorrect interpretation of certain theories. He seemed to misunderstand Jung's understanding of archetypes. Also an incorrect version of the whole Oedipus idea.
