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05-08-2006, 07:57 PM
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
05-08-2006, 07:57 PM
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#1
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red right hand (tdn $upporter)
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vicarious meaning
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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Very interesting...hadn't even really considered that..
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05-08-2006, 08:27 PM
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#2
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: new orleans
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Re: vicarious meaning
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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Very interesting...hadn't even really considered that.. |
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05-08-2006, 08:29 PM
yeah really interesting good post
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05-08-2006, 08:29 PM
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#3
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Level 3 - Talker
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Re: vicarious meaning
yeah really interesting good post
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05-08-2006, 11:21 PM
I think that's a good possibility. I never really thought of it that way.
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05-08-2006, 11:21 PM
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#4
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
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Re: vicarious meaning
I think that's a good possibility. I never really thought of it that way.
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05-08-2006, 11:31 PM
or could we just be considered curious observers albeit aware of possible underlying motivations?
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05-08-2006, 11:31 PM
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#5
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Level 4 - Thinker
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Re: vicarious meaning
or could we just be considered curious observers albeit aware of possible underlying motivations?
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05-09-2006, 03:53 AM
Well yeah it also might explain why Vicarious sounds kinda seperate from the rest of the album as well. I know some people are puttin it down to the fact that it was released before the rest of the album came out but i dunno, it's still got its own feel, both musically and lyrically. Though neuropathy might also have a point as well haha
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05-09-2006, 03:53 AM
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#6
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red right hand (tdn $upporter)
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Re: vicarious meaning
Well yeah it also might explain why Vicarious sounds kinda seperate from the rest of the album as well. I know some people are puttin it down to the fact that it was released before the rest of the album came out but i dunno, it's still got its own feel, both musically and lyrically. Though neuropathy might also have a point as well haha
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Nice post, i never really thought of that
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05-09-2006, 02:42 PM
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#7
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
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Re: vicarious meaning
Nice post, i never really thought of that
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Hmmm....
Perhaps it could just simply be the concept of watching someone(s) suffer and feeling helpless.
On the larger scale, we're pretty helpless as to what the U.S. government is doing for its own individual and corporate gains. For those of us that do feel helpless, we're pretty fucking angry too. There's a range of emotions that go along with the situation. Helpless, angry, empathetic, apathetic, anxious, etc. We're having decisions made for us and there's nothing we can do to stop it. We're just bystanders, but are tied by a rope to this raging car that is heading towards a ravine at full speed.
I suppose very similar to a more personal situation...Like watching someone you care about go through a stroke and the aftermath of it. You can't detach yourself from the situation entirely, although I'm sure most would try their best.
I don't know. Shooting in the dark here. Just a thought.
I'm of the belief that everything is or can be related. You can zoom in to the most minute detail or you can zoom out...... like those posters where there's one of yoda and the big yoda is made up of little snapshots of scenes in Star Wars. Sometimes when you step back and zoom out, you can see the little events and situations that make up an entire picture....then you can zoom out more and see how that picture is just a scene in another larger picture.....
Blah, anything can be related if you use the right words and way of thinking. It's fun.
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05-10-2006, 02:37 PM
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#8
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: L.A.
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Re: vicarious meaning
Hmmm....
Perhaps it could just simply be the concept of watching someone(s) suffer and feeling helpless.
On the larger scale, we're pretty helpless as to what the U.S. government is doing for its own individual and corporate gains. For those of us that do feel helpless, we're pretty fucking angry too. There's a range of emotions that go along with the situation. Helpless, angry, empathetic, apathetic, anxious, etc. We're having decisions made for us and there's nothing we can do to stop it. We're just bystanders, but are tied by a rope to this raging car that is heading towards a ravine at full speed.
I suppose very similar to a more personal situation...Like watching someone you care about go through a stroke and the aftermath of it. You can't detach yourself from the situation entirely, although I'm sure most would try their best.
I don't know. Shooting in the dark here. Just a thought.
I'm of the belief that everything is or can be related. You can zoom in to the most minute detail or you can zoom out...... like those posters where there's one of yoda and the big yoda is made up of little snapshots of scenes in Star Wars. Sometimes when you step back and zoom out, you can see the little events and situations that make up an entire picture....then you can zoom out more and see how that picture is just a scene in another larger picture.....
Blah, anything can be related if you use the right words and way of thinking. It's fun.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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Opening your mind to accept the rest of the album. Crack the skull and pour it in...
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05-19-2006, 11:11 PM
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#9
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago
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Re: vicarious meaning
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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Opening your mind to accept the rest of the album. Crack the skull and pour it in... |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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You know what i had that same thort just yesterday as i was listening to the album and it just occured to me, right on brother!
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05-20-2006, 03:30 AM
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#10
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
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Re: vicarious meaning
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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You know what i had that same thort just yesterday as i was listening to the album and it just occured to me, right on brother!
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05-23-2006, 10:44 PM
Hell yeah...
Great idea, and something I'll keep in mind while listening to the rest of the album.
Thanks.
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9.30.2006 - Washington, D.C.
6.07.2007 - Richmond, VA
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05-23-2006, 10:44 PM
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#11
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
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Re: vicarious meaning
Hell yeah...
Great idea, and something I'll keep in mind while listening to the rest of the album.
Thanks.
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Away with our explosives then! Away with our destroyers! They have no place within our better world... But let us raise a toast to all our bombers, all our bastards, most unlovely and most unforgivable.
Let's drink to their health, then meet with them no more.
9.30.2006 - Washington, D.C.
6.07.2007 - Richmond, VA
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05-23-2006, 10:53 PM
Even if this is not the original motive for the writing of the lyrics, I definitely see that this could be why this track ended up as the first track on the album.
I like the hypothesis. It makes sense.
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05-23-2006, 10:53 PM
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#12
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Just Some Dude (tdn $upporter)
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Re: vicarious meaning
Even if this is not the original motive for the writing of the lyrics, I definitely see that this could be why this track ended up as the first track on the album.
I like the hypothesis. It makes sense.
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05-28-2006, 07:41 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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no
almost the entire album is about analyzing human suffering. I don't think talking or emoting about a certain subject is the same as glorifying it.
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"And yet be clearly aware of the stars and infinity on high. Then life seems almost enchanted after all." - van Gogh
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05-28-2006, 07:41 PM
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#13
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Alive With Signs and Stars
Join Date: May 2006
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Re: vicarious meaning
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jack_flash
Could Vicarious possibly be about the rest of the album, and what you are about to witness/experience when listening to it. I mean, the songs basically about how we get our enjoyment out of human suffering, out of other people's pain. Yet the overall meaning of the album, or the main crux of the subject matter is maynard's relationship with his mother who suffered for the 10 000 days before she finally died. So Vicarious is kinda like Maynard's little preamble to the actual album, him saying 'go ahead and listen, but make sure you realise what you are listening to and double check your reasons for enjoying it'. It's like every copy of this album sold is just another person 'feeding on tragedy'. Just a thought.
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no
almost the entire album is about analyzing human suffering. I don't think talking or emoting about a certain subject is the same as glorifying it.
__________________
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. My pleasures are the most intense known to man: writing and butterfly hunting." - Nabokov
"And yet be clearly aware of the stars and infinity on high. Then life seems almost enchanted after all." - van Gogh
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I don't believe in your opinion... for i have my own... but I do have to say I'm glad to see you analyzing the songs and deciphering your own opinion out of it. For this is what Tool means... It is about opening up your eyes and getting your own opinion out of their music...
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05-29-2006, 08:23 PM
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#14
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Missouri
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Re: vicarious meaning
I don't believe in your opinion... for i have my own... but I do have to say I'm glad to see you analyzing the songs and deciphering your own opinion out of it. For this is what Tool means... It is about opening up your eyes and getting your own opinion out of their music...
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05-30-2006, 12:00 AM
Fair enough idea. Though i disagree. Every song on the album is about suffering, or about how we deal with it or cause it, but i dont think any but wings pt I & II are about judith. I think the messages and metaphors in vicarious can be taken at face value.
I can really see tool spending time with song that explains other songs, because they usually have too much to say to fit on an album, and this'd be a bit of a waste imo
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05-30-2006, 12:00 AM
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#15
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Level 8 - Vociferous
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Re: vicarious meaning
Fair enough idea. Though i disagree. Every song on the album is about suffering, or about how we deal with it or cause it, but i dont think any but wings pt I & II are about judith. I think the messages and metaphors in vicarious can be taken at face value.
I can really see tool spending time with song that explains other songs, because they usually have too much to say to fit on an album, and this'd be a bit of a waste imo
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09-29-2007, 12:48 AM
About a general theme of the album, I have a feeling of mourning.
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09-29-2007, 12:48 AM
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#16
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Beauvais (France)
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Re: vicarious meaning
About a general theme of the album, I have a feeling of mourning.
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09-29-2007, 02:05 AM
If we're all "feeding on tragedy", then what do you call the person serving it up?
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09-29-2007, 02:05 AM
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#17
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne
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Re: vicarious meaning
If we're all "feeding on tragedy", then what do you call the person serving it up?
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09-29-2007, 09:41 AM
A dealer.
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09-29-2007, 09:41 AM
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#18
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queens, NY
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Re: vicarious meaning
A dealer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luosdasa
Every song on the album is about suffering, or about how we deal with it or cause it imo
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How do you explain Rosetta Stoned? The Pot? Those aren't about suffering. And you said that you don't think that any song except Wings for Marie pt 1 and 2 are about Judith, but what about Jambi?
Last edited by GiselleLFreude; 02-04-2015 at 11:56 PM..
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02-04-2015, 11:54 PM
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#19
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Level 1 - Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oregon
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Re: vicarious meaning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luosdasa
Every song on the album is about suffering, or about how we deal with it or cause it imo
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How do you explain Rosetta Stoned? The Pot? Those aren't about suffering. And you said that you don't think that any song except Wings for Marie pt 1 and 2 are about Judith, but what about Jambi?
Last edited by GiselleLFreude; 02-04-2015 at 11:56 PM..
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02-05-2015, 01:16 AM
you're challenging a thought from 05-30-2006, 04:00 AM...
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02-05-2015, 01:16 AM
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#20
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Level 10 - Vehement
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Re: vicarious meaning
you're challenging a thought from 05-30-2006, 04:00 AM...
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02-05-2015, 01:19 AM
it is now 02-05-2015, 04:20 AM
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i know, shit!
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02-05-2015, 01:19 AM
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#21
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Level 10 - Vehement
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Re: vicarious meaning
it is now 02-05-2015, 04:20 AM
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02-05-2015, 05:26 AM
I can't wait to go back in time and prove all of you wrong! muahahahaha
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02-05-2015, 05:26 AM
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#22
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Up From The Skies
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Re: vicarious meaning
I can't wait to go back in time and prove all of you wrong! muahahahaha
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I don't know where the sunbeams end
And the starlights begin
It's all a mystery
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02-14-2015, 06:22 AM
I just interperet "vicarious" literally... as in, dual. We are vicariously experiencing what its like to create beautiful music about what it's like to vicariously watch people who live vicariously... it's an endless f*cking cycle.
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02-14-2015, 06:22 AM
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#23
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Level 1 - Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: vicarious meaning
I just interperet "vicarious" literally... as in, dual. We are vicariously experiencing what its like to create beautiful music about what it's like to vicariously watch people who live vicariously... it's an endless f*cking cycle.
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02-22-2015, 12:42 AM
Like when you put a mirror in front of a mirror: endless reflections of reflections of reflections of reflections...
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02-22-2015, 12:42 AM
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#24
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Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: new zealand
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Re: vicarious meaning
Like when you put a mirror in front of a mirror: endless reflections of reflections of reflections of reflections...
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The album jumps around too much for vicarious to be so deeply related to the rest of it. It's just the opener and flows into Jambi really well. Lyrics are separate from the music. Meaning is subjective. It's not a concept album, but a concepts album.
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03-08-2015, 12:11 PM
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#25
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Banned.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
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Re: vicarious meaning
The album jumps around too much for vicarious to be so deeply related to the rest of it. It's just the opener and flows into Jambi really well. Lyrics are separate from the music. Meaning is subjective. It's not a concept album, but a concepts album.
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