Three Deviations. I am sick of your closet-Ptolemiacism. You think the world is black and white and that people can't have spiritual expereinces on drugs. There is a big difference between a drug expereince and a spiritual experience. A drug experience is when you do drugs to get fucked up and dissociate with your surroundings for a while. A spiritual expereince is when you actually expereince a one-ness with nature and your surroundings, feel your body die and become reborn, truly love everything, journey through the path of human evolution, transcend time and space, meet extraterrestrial spirits who give you secrets of the universe only to forget them later. If you don't think drugs can be spiritual, how come so many people claim them to be? How come the shamans and indians used to take them for sacred rituals? How come Tim Leary got so big? I cannot take place arguing with someone so dense as to think songs and lyrics can only have one meaning any longer. You can go on living in your black and white little universe where the Earth is nice and center and everything revolves around it, and you. I'll be over here questioning my own beleifs and the beleifs of those around me, thinking of the possibilities to every situation and not tying myself down to any beleif system.

I think you were trying to imply I am not happy with myself because I tell people how it is?! Suggesting it's because I am insecure or.. well, whatever negative characteristics ya get from getting kicked in the ass in the hallway.

That's funny coming from the smoking loser who used to knock the books out of the hands of weaker kids.. kick them in the ass? Nice.

and trust me, son.. you wouldn't have ever considered touching a book of mine. you wouldn't have even had the balls to make eye contact.

offensive chatter? ha, it's all you junkie fucks who are offended... I'm just having fun, telling the truth, kickin back and having a blast watching all of you fall all over yourselves.

yeah, it's the government! that's all.

"It doesn't matter what's right?" That's your answer? Sad. Maybe you could've continued the sentence... "it's only wrong if you get caught."

He's talking about how- ya know what, nevermind. You think "it doesn't matter what's right" is referring to interpretation of lyrics or just some general statement that can be applied toward anything ya want? funny

try again, struggle boy

Why did Tim Leary get so big? Twinkies? Religion is pretty big too.


Drug experience vs Spiritual... ahhh..

drug experience - Why would I want to "dissociate" with my surroundings?

spiritual experience- you silly euphemist!!

I'll translate your euphemisms for you..

one with nature and surroundings... = Kinda tried to fuck your Lazy Boy. Friend pisses on your lighter. Satan.

You're getting bored again.....


feel your body die and become reborn? = You pass out and wake up the following morning in some guy's room. A name plate on the door reads "TYRONE'S PAD" in big, black lettering. Your whitey tighties are nowhere to be found. But you do find the elastic band wrapped around your forehead, with the name RAMBO spelled out across the top.

You're getting bored again......

"Truly love everything" = Temporarily escape from the horrible reality that is you.

You're getting bored again......

Journey through the path of human evolution = Put your finger into your ass as far as you can, where you happen to feel your coccyx. You then spend the next two hours wiping your finger on the wet dew and asking yourself, "dude, you think I really had a fuckin tail?"

You're getting bored again....

Transend time and space = See what you can top out the speedometer at in your mom's populated neighborhood. October 31.

You're getting bored again......

Meet extraterrestrial "spirits" who give you secrets of the universe only to forget them later. = you're a fucking idiot.

You're getting bored again.

i was reading an interview posted on fourtheye.net, and adam jones said that rosetta stoned was about how ppl try to find an enlightening just by doing drugs.

oooooooooooook.....

i think it's bring rather than read, why would he be reading if he's writing?

Read into it what you want, its not me that everyone is laughing at.
And you. the ALMIGHTY supreme point your finger at me because of something I chose to do at my own leisure>? That makes me a loser>? Ha, that's so funny...have you ever noticed the people that run around calling people losers are....well, not winners.

I don't know or care why you have such issues as these insecurities you display. Maybe its just because you weren't considered cool by the "cool" kids. I don't really know, or care....the fact is, you come here screaming "I am RIGHT, YOU are WRONG! AGREE WITH ME OR I'LL CALL YOU NAMES." Does that not demonstrate at least some kind of disfunction in your opinion<>? It certainly makes you seem to be one of those that while ACTING like you don't need acceptance, seek it so passionately; never seeming to realize how repulsive you are.

So you tell people how it is, eh>? You tell people how your DELUSION is. Try not to omit the most important word of the statement.

Nice>? who said I was trying to be nice>? Who said it was the weaker kids whose books were knocked and asses kicked....I'm an equal opportunity asshole, and that shit includes EVERYONE.


You don't offend me....you amuze me....

I wouldn't have the balls to look you in the eye>?....yea, I think I would. You have no idea who the fuck I am. But maybe not; I bet you are just as intimidating as you are absolute in your dogma. Oh you scare me so....what will I ever do now>? How will I ever sleep at night>? I'm just shitting all over the place over here....3deviations is so scary and tought that I'd fear to look at him.
The only reason I'd not want to look you in the eye is probably because you are just as hideous to behold with the eyes as you words are to read....


Maybe it wasn't the governments propaganda thats got you so confused, but whatever it was, I wonder why you go so willingly with it.

The "matter what's right" comment I made, somehow, you being so supreme in your intelligence, missed the point.

SO, everyone else here....lets all just read what the great master 3deviations has to say....he's the only person in the world that has any idea whats' going on and we should all just shut the hell up and let our great dictator decide for us what is and isn't.....hush now....shhh.....let us all take heed and hear him well.....


....you make me laugh......

makes sense...could be...

have you asked 3abbreviations what that the true one and only set of lyrics are>?

wow, very insightful caduceus.

equal opportunity asshole... cute

you don't do drugs at your own leisure.

see post 283

next..

That's a very concise, kind of analytical view of it. Had I never been exposed directly to the culture of it I'd hold a very similar view, perhaps. Those things very well could be done/happen depending on the user. I myself have never gone driving while on drugs. That's as ignorant as driving while drunk.

The point is drugs are like any other tool. You can use them, you can misuse them, and you can abuse them. Also don't be so quick to relagate all drugs into one catagory: "DRUGS". I don't do meth, I don't do coke, frankly, I don't do much of anything anymore. But when I did, the drugs I took had very different behavioral norms that occurred than with the aforementioned drugs.

If you've never experienced a psychedelic trip, one of those 'journies into the infinite' you'd realize there are moments in it, albeit intoxicated, when you have great moments of lucidity and understanding. I've had thoughts and ideas while in that state that I brought back with me and applied to 'normal' life.

And to wrap this all up I think that's in a lot of ways what Rosetta Stoned is about. People that seek enlightment solely through chemical means are going to be sorely disappointed when the chemicals are gone. You have to follow up.

So in a way way I agree with 3D; anyone that does drugs and doesn't apply what they've learned to their 'regular' life is abusing a powerful tool. And when it's abuse, be it from overuse or simply from squandering the experience for a few hours of kicks, then you're a junkie.

(By the way, in most contexts above when I use the term 'drugs' I'm referring to psychedelics, not narcotics.)

Oh thank you great one. I am so glad you have cleared everything up for me. Who needs psychedelics when we have 3d here to show us everything>?

So when exactly DO I do "drugs">? Please clarify, as you seem to have me under surveillance.

You're getting BORING again....

The fact of the matter is, your personal "drug" use is whatever you choose for it to be. I generally do my "drugs" as an aid in meditation, relaxation. Sure, any one mind can acheive ANY effect you recieve from taking ANY drug if only you learn how. Any of this use of "drugs" that people do is just a lazy or uneducated means to reach certain mindstates. But if you don't believe drugs have done some good things for us....well, I think you know the rest....

"next...."

There is one reason why the sky changes color when the sun sets.

One logical and definite answer to why it does and has done it.

But do you think that answer has changed the way humanity as admired and stood in awe of something as simple as a sunset?

No.

***ThreeDeviations
For all I know, you could of hit the nail on the head and are only momments away from MJK finding you and praising you on your ability to percive his message in the only correct way possible. But I wouldn't hold your breath.

I don't know why you have to be right in this. Becuase you will never know. You didn't write the words, you will never experince that momment that MJK did. All you will experince is the reaction you have. The song is an influenceal element that will invoke all the feelings and ideas make your existance personal.

That is what art is. I could sit and logicly and analyticly tell you how I feel sad. But all I would be doing is telling how I feel. You would not be sad. You may be sympathetic if you were anything. But one person cannot convey their feelings directly to another. Artists use ways to create something outside themselves that will invoke feeling and introspection. That music is meant to be taken and absorb and refelcted upon. Not picked and poked until it bleeds an answer.

I promise you... You will never get the one right answer...

Well, and even if you *do* get the single, intended idea that the writer was writing when he/she wrote it it's a moot point. You'll never be able to confirm it so you'll never know if you're right or not.

I think most of us get the main idea of the song. The way I look at it is in levels:
the literal : taking the words at face value should give you the basic idea. No, its not at all what the song is REALLY about or what you should take from it.
the metaphorical: here you start to see where Maynard's sarcasm (in alot of cases) and song-writing come toghether. There are so many metaphors in TOOL lyrix.
Once you see how the song develops from the literal to the metaphorical, then you should start to be able to form a relation that will help you see what's really being told.

But there are so many things being (not) said in these songs, that you should, with your third eye OPEN, start to gain some understanding of the meaning of the song.

There is generally a set meaning for each song, but that's not to say that someone else may relate it differently or gain more or less from it than others. Yes, you can generally tell what TOOL is getting at when you really sit and try to understand what its really about. But that's not to say there's ONE and only ONE meaning to the song. There's not ONE single line that you could say to sum up ANY of the songs. Sure there's a theme, but it can grow into something that applies to each individual. The meaning of ART is how its percieved by those whom are exposed to it. I can tell you a painting makes me feel sick, but it makes you feel happy, and it makes the artist sad. If you want the ONE TRUE meaning of what the artist was trying to accomplish in their work, the only way to get the answer is to go to the creator. Maynard's not going to tell us...so come to your conclusions, discuss them here with the group and 'both move on together' or just shut down and insult everyone for their reaction to the music....naa, don't do that....

That's really all I write about is the bigger picture.
What motivated the man to write these words down....

That's why I don't give a shit when someone says, "oh, well it means this to me... so fuck you." Yeah? Good. Good for you. I personalize the song in my head too based off the original intent. Not how it makes me feel initially. My mold doesn't harden instantly... it's just a foundation.
I like to get into the mind of the creator and sense and feel where they're coming from.. and then let it go where it may based off actual intent and emotion.

Your reply, "yeah, but you don't know what the original intent was dude!" oh really? I think i do.

So just because the song DOES HAVE ONE ORIGINAL MEANING ... I'm not saying you can't personalize it. Just don't miss it by a mile. anyhow,

this next part is from a previous post of mine on this thread since people don't bother readin the whole thing... then suggest I don't see the bigger picture, while still respecting any peripheral "messages" along the way.

"Rosetta Stoned, Blame "Dr." Hoffman... it doesn't mean the actual meaning of the song is about drugs or LSD.

Stinkfist is not about sexual fisting.. but it's written through that metaphor.
4 degrees isn't about anal sex... but it's written through that perspective.
Prison Sex isn't about having sex in prison.

The song is written to shed some light on a few different things... area 51, alien abduction, its ramifications on people afterward.. side effects.. how others perceive people who say they've been abducted... etc.

Obviously there are drug references too... so when you say "I don't believe the message is that psychedelics are entirely a bad thing, just that dependance on them and them alone for enlightenment is futile" that sounds about right.

Just like the alien abduction though, it's NOT what the real meaning is about.

The climax of the song is when he sings..

"Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and read you all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see"

It's no coincidence those are the words that are being sung during the climax.
All the other lyrics and references are entirely secondary to this part...
you can hear and feel it when you listen to the song..

This song's climax and actual message are very similar to Stinkfist... "something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be, desensitized to everything... what became of subtlety."

Both messages are clear and to the point.. no tricky wording.. no metaphors.. no bullshit."

As much as I think 3D's an asshole (and have reminded her of such on various occasions) she IS right.

I mean, to have a whole song that just so happens to be the crux of the album be EXCLUSIVELY about some fucked up guy and his bad trip (in order to remind all those druggies that you can't be enlightened through drugs) is slightly close-minded. If none of you have read paraflux's "Fluxterpation" (it's stickied at the bottom of the forum) then you proabably should.

10,000 Days is about death and (as all the band members have described it) is their "blues" album. To stick something that's purely about the side effects of being retarded, wagging their fingers at "those darn potheads" is not quite "death" or "blues-y" enough for me. It makes infinite more sense if this is a post-modern exposition of Maynard/TOOL's current feelings about the state of the nation/world --- we just don't listen, and when we do, we forget it immediately.

No, Maynard is not a "prophet", but the insight that comes from TOOL's lyrics can be seen as "the details of our ending".

It might help to look at ALL the different interpretations that are out there and notice that MOST of them seem to combine in some form with the presiding notion being Maynard's critique of the modern world --- we don't listen and he (albeit humorously) "forgets his pen".

It's a bunch of complex metaphors --- look into it further, especially all of you who are stuck on the "LSD/DXM" (though DXM is an absurd drug to be referenced with this song) kick. That's PART of it. There's more.

I don't suggest 3D doesn't see the whole picture...I suggest she see HER whole picture...she is not maynard so I don't believe she is the authority...

hahaha, jesus....time for a new thread, hey 3D, why dont you start it again? hahahahaha

"....the blotter got right on top of me, got me seeing, E mother-fucking T"

does anyone take into consideration of what the actual ROSETTA STONE is...wouldn't one consider the pun on the name of the song as a basis to begin your definition of the song<>? Initially I thought the name was just letting you know that it was going to be difficult to de-code or translate. However, after all this time, I believe there is much more to it than that. I believe the title of the song indicates that it is difficult to translate the experience...Rosetta StonED. So yea, he's "stoned" or tripping on LSD or whatever. Yet when he's back to normal, he cannot translate what he has seen, been told or whatever he gathered.....so another theme of the song is that while your trip may hold a great deal of enlightenment and self discovery or even the details of our ending....it doesn't really matter because you are stoned and you won't be able to tell anyone anyway...so is it just a waste>?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...2A83027AF1010E

" there is no difference between drug-induced mystical experiences and the spontaneous religious ones that believers have reported for centuries. They are "descriptively identical". "

"... METAPHOR"

Well I am thoroughly impressed with your ability (or inability) to miss my points. Bravo poindexter!

You are entitled to your own opinions obviously, but don't force them upon others.
If you want to live your life the way you feel Maynard wants you to, you are entitled to that as well... But please, be open to the possibility that your interpretation may be wrong. I am not saying you are, and I never said you were.


Maynard is not my hero, please don't assume things.

Ever heard the saying "All Indians no chiefs?" How are you to follow someone so blindly you have never met before? I don't live my life by Tool's music, I listen, appreciate, and relish the art created by the band.

If Maynard is your hero, and you want to be exactly like him; great. Maynard maybe a little cocky, a little arrogant, but I doubt he passes judgment like the super-being you portray yourself as.

Be humble my fellow human.

You guys are a bunch of fucking weirdos hahahaha.

this is a great quote... one question, if i am thinking for myself and questioning authority, but i am unaware that what im thinking is wrong and that really i dont get it, am i still good? because i think i get it, but i am not sure if i am aware of the fact that i really DONT get it. im so confused!

It's about Maynard's son Jambi and the givinit rest.

I took the meaning of the title to be using 'Stoned' as a past tense verb. And stoned meaning the act of stoning someone to death. Pelting them with many large stones and so forth.

Well, the Rosetta Stone was a valuable tool/key to learning much of what we know of ancient civilization. So imagine being pelted with Rosetta Stones, teaching tools, figuratively. All those ideas, all those teachings, all that wisdom and it's bombarding every thought you hold. - also ties in with the title 'lost keys'. The teaching tools squandered. Being absolutely overwhelmed by so much wisdom that the thought of writing it down is not possible.

So even if Maynard is describing something deeper and metaphorically with the climax it still directly parallels a psychedelic-induced mystical experience.

That.

I really agree with your thought about being overwhelmed by wisdom, and not being able to retain it (for some reason).

One part of the song that I am convinced is very important is; E mother fuckin T.(heh) The song has more references to ET and UFOs than any other part of the song. ET has to be in the song for a reason, not just some ambiguous clue.

Could possibly the overwhelming message/wisdom/data be from ET?

Could the song contain some sort of hidden message/puzzle about (or from) ET?

Could this be the explanation of Rosetta Stone(d)? A message about aliens, we need some sort of key to decode?

there's always been a correlation between the ancient Egyptians and E-mother-fucking-T's

hell yeah, now we are back on track with this thread, i'm seeing some new good interpretations......i can agree with aspects from all of them...in varying degrees of course.

Yes, the Stoned could be that...but couldn't it be that AND being in the state of mind of being stoned>? I think its both....

There has always been those that consider that the ancients had connections with EmotherfuckingT's. So, knowing that, and the course of events of the song include alien abduction, and use of 'deadhead' chemistry' don't you think that's more reasonable than being pelted with the rosestta stone itself, which is not mentioned at all>?

That is from that movie almost famous isnt it...

yup.

You are asking yourself questions, and responding to them as well.

Do you have children?

i was trying to ease the tension of thread...people were getting way to into it so i thought ide lighten the mood a little. and no i do not have children.

in that interview with JJJ adam jones said that if people interpret their songs positively, even if they are wrong, then he is fine with it and says "cool, if thats what works for you"

now if a band member knows the meaning of the song
hears a wrong one
and still doesn't force feed the shit out of the listener then i think you can as well 3d

but at the same time i agree with you, especially when you made all those points by displayin some lyrics of maynard being an asshole

i think its unfair how people will accept maynard no matter what and even if he insults them they accept him yet if someone here does it he or she is an asshole when one member of the band can be an unbelievable dick at times even to his fans

so i disagreed with 3d and then i agreed with him and now im tellin all of you another point


i had this quote, which i cant remember right now exactly what was said or who it was said by, but it said that nowadays we have become so "open-minded" that we dont accept "close-minded" people, which isnt really being "open-minded" is it? its a little double standard and a bit hypocritical to be so liberally "open-minded" because ive noticed that all "open-minded" people have a tendency to lean towards liberals, which, whether you like it or not, other people are people too with opinions, and once again, whether you like it or not, they might differ from yours even if they are "unfair" or "just not cool" to you.

shit if someone hates arabs thats his opinion just as much as someone who doesnt care about culture, can it bother you? yeah! it bothers me!

to relate to our current situation:

if 3d wants to insult and not accept your opinions let 3d

you guys are being hypocrits telling 3dthat 3d has to accept other opinions when......you dont accept 3ds as unfair and illogical as it may seem to you.

okay, now i do wanna say sorry because it seems as if things have slightly died down and i dont want to stir it up again, but i read the thread and i got into it and i just wanted these things to be said.

last thing, where is that interview on that fourtheye site? i tried www.fourtheye.com and it didnt work, someone help!!!
^^^Ignore this

None of those examples of "Maynard being an asshole" we're from Lateralus onward, except "I must crucify the ego" which isn't even close to an appropriate example though.

"Don't wanna be down here feeding my narcissism."

probably the most telling of all the "examples"....

I thought that was on Lateralus.... it must've been on Opiate!