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Old 01-21-2003, 07:39 PM   #41
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Re: A couple of things....

Quote:
Originally posted by aeternus0
Just to clear up (hopefully) the whole evolution/bigbang thing ...

It is true that theories are just that - essentially well-educated (usually) guesses that may or may not be true. The Big Bang THEORY is an example of that - it is certainly not fact.

However, although evolution is called "The Theory of Evolution", this is misleading. When Darwin first proposed the idea, indeed it WAS a theory then. Since then, however, it has been proved dozens if not hundreds of times. The only reason it is still called a theory is because that phrase caught on.

In terms of space and time, I always thought it to be the opposite - not that time created space but rather that space creates time. Time is basically just a measure of change. When somethine changes, there needs to be some way of measuring the time in between. However, space and matter could theoretically exist without time, if they remained totally static and did not change at all.

In other words ... TIME = CHANGE

or at least that's how i see it.
Great thoughts, i did want to say that evolution is still a theory, greatley accepted by science but not proven that's were the missing link comes in. science can not find the direct link between current humans and primative huminoid mammals.It's just our luck there just had to be a piece to the puzzle that was amiss, was it aliens, god, evo, maybe all. Perhaps it is our destiny to question infinitly { the perrills of an opend mind} i say all things are.....if you are ...energy creates ...project it..
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Old 01-30-2003, 05:21 AM   #42
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Re: Sentient God? Way of Nature

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Originally posted by aeternus0
We are not separate from the universe, we are an intrisic PART of it, the embodyment of creation. Of course, if our lives are thought of as distinct, fleeting shells of nothing but our own egos, we are bound to be driven to seek out eternal Life and to fear Death in every form, because Death, we think, is the END.

Death is not the end - we are fleeting, but we are nonetheless manifestations of what is already eternal, the incredible universe that is all around us and permeates EVERY SINGLE THING. The illusion that we are separate from this eternal flow is the only real Hell.

The world is transient, constantly changing. The sun rises, the seasons pass, the moon grows, then shrinks, the mountains rise, then fall ... friends leave, relationships change, the very stars above us shift, and the sun sets. When our physical bodies stop functioning; when our heart ceases its beat and our brains die ... this is just another change. And, just as the sun is never destroyed when it sets, we are not gone, but simply merged back into ... well ... EVERYTHING.
Beautiful :)

That's somewhat similar to the conclusion I've currently arrived at...

I somewhat doubt that we'll remain conscious after death. But we're still eternal... everything that we've said and done will be locked in the past for all time... it will never be untrue that we existed.

We are immortal, though none may consciously remember us. We are a part of the universe now, and forever.

(And all this pain is an illusion :D)
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Old 02-02-2003, 06:11 PM   #43
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Science is based upon what we can observe. That started with our eyes, ears, and all the other senses, and then grew to accomodate things we could begin to observe through other means, light spectrums, electricity etc.

I think there must be other forces out there acting on the universe that we cannot sense consciously. That are beyond our senses, but still affect us in some way we can not yeat measure or understand. Television and radio waves go through you each minute of every day... there you are, unaware...

Has anyone read "The Holotropic Mind" ? I forget the author but he was a prominat researcher with LSD. Graf I think it was.

He has some interesting stories and theories in there, many about psychology and metaphysics. One that is not fully developed but taked from another book is that the universe is very much like a hologram. In a hologram you can break it into pieces and the tiny pieces can still be used to create the original image... anyway.. there's some through provoking stuff.

Cronos commented on not believing in past lives, I don't really, but I do believe we are all connected by invisible forces. One story in the book is about a women under hypnosis (it may have been acid I can't really remember) But she had the experience of being on the front lines during one of the World Wars, and seeing a fellow soldier die. She could describe all the surroundings and what was being said, etc. She told the tale to her grandfather and it turned out to be one of his memories of the war. He had never told anyone about it, and she remembered the exact same things he did. I'm probably forgetting some crucial detail that proves it was him and not another soldier... but it raises some interesting questions.
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Old 02-02-2003, 11:46 PM   #44
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Death is just such a heavy trip that it's tough to pretend you can talk about with any kind of informed attitude. I think that I prescribe to the idea that it's just another way to look at life. When you die, it's just the same as making a massive change in your life. You don't know what's coming next, and you can't have any preconceived notions, otherwise, you'll get stuck in old patterns and wind up in the same trip you were in before.

And that's all I have to say about that.

P.S. I saw Richie Havens tonight, and if he comes to your city, you should see this guy. He was in the original Woodstock movie, and he's one of the most hip dudes producing music in the united states.
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Old 02-04-2003, 08:40 AM   #45
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Interesting thread

Although this thread is very interesting it is also completely pointless. The only way we will ever know what happens after we die is to die. We can debate what we think happens till the end of time but no one will ever know. I'm sorry this sounds so pessimistic. I did enjoy reading your thoughts. So, I guess I'll see you on the other side.
MW


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Old 02-05-2003, 09:07 PM   #46
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Re: Interesting thread

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerk off
So, I guess I'll see you on the other side.
MW


If you got that reference, "I love You" :)
Hm, actually I first thought of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" by Radiohead - "I will see you in the next life"

But of course it's 'Pushit' from Salival
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Old 02-06-2003, 06:53 AM   #47
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See, now I have to love you. Well , here you go . I LOVE YOU for knowing that. :)
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Old 02-06-2003, 10:53 AM   #48
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Bible written by the Driud Mafia!!!

Here's my thinking on the Creation vs Evolution thing: both.

If God wrote the Bible (those who have read Drosnin's 'Bible Code', please chime in) he did it long time ago. Before we knew about the universe, and molecules, and dna, and dinosaurs. I think Moses's uncle invented the pointed stick, I mean its a long time ago.

He (God) couldn't say "First, I condensed all the matter in this dimension into a tiny ball and then BANG!! Then, after a while, I created life using what I like to call "building blocks"
and something called nutrients..." and so on. He had to explain it in a way that tiny-brained people with no knowledge of science could understand. Hence, the myth-like story of a garden with no sin and a evil creature and crazy apple, a half-page history of why there is space, why there is land, water, people, and why people have it rough. Simple, concise, it gets all the major points across and answers the big questions.

Hard-core creationist might say that any interpretation of what the Bible says is wrong b/c it's the word of God and is infalible.
But, a shorter version of the truth is not a lie. If you ask me to explain how a stop light works, I will say that a sensor in the road tells the light when to change. That's true, its an accurate statement. Of course, there's a lot more to it than that, more than I could readily understand. But I was still right., and I answered your question well enough to suit your needs.


Obviously, evolution is a logical theory. We have tailbones, for cryin out loud. But even if that theory is correct, and we came from a puddle of magic slime, they can't explain how the slime begot life. They just say it was a miracle.
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Old 02-08-2003, 11:08 PM   #49
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life sucks anyway
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Old 02-12-2003, 03:31 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by kill_me
well.. as much as id like to believe in reincarnation and heaven and hell and everything, the world has become much to scientific for my liking... I've pretty much ruled out the possibility or god and satan.. and ive come to the decesion that the only real truth is science.. i mean, adam and eve has been proven wrong by evolution, god creating the universe has been proven wrong by the big bang theory...
hum Adam and Eve were proven right by DNA and there is steel no way to prove or disprove evolution OR creation the same is true for the so called Big Bang. i have said before evolution vs. creation (by any god) does not conflict! the Big Bang and creation do not conflict. the Bible says that God crated thing it never goes in to detail, the people of that time could not understand the Big Bang or evolution.

ok i got to say this to prove something you need to use the "scientific method"(http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph....html#Heading3) there is no way to do this with evolution OR creation

I. The scientific method has four steps
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

If the experiments bear out the hypothesis it may come to be regarded as a theory or law of nature (more on the concepts of hypothesis, model, theory and law below). If the experiments do not bear out the hypothesis, it must be rejected or modified. What is key in the description of the scientific method just given is the predictive power (the ability to get more out of the theory than you put in; see Barrow, 1991) of the hypothesis or theory, as tested by experiment. It is often said in science that theories can never be proved, only disproved. There is always the possibility that a new observation or a new experiment will conflict with a long-standing theory.



Last edited by Convoy_X; 02-12-2003 at 03:44 AM..
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Old 02-12-2003, 07:46 AM   #51
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Quote:
[i].

no life is truly that great without the inclusion of a greater divine plan because if it didn't, human experience would be empty, fleeting and ultimately meaningless. maybe i've got a bad attitude towards things, but to me, hell is existing when there's no real reason why you should. [/B]

Death renders life ultimately absurd? sounds like some existentialist bullshit to me. The reason you exist is to be happy, happiness is a component of survival, if you haven't noticed all life on earth main goal is to survive and propagate the species. Our consciousness is what separates us from other life forms on earth, but it is merely a tool that allows us to be the most successful creatures on the planet. Ultimately this is a boring outlook on life to most, people love to believe in mysteries.
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Old 02-12-2003, 03:10 PM   #52
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Imagine that you are you. Your preception of you. This is the you that only you know. Now imagine the you in the mind of everyone you know. The you in the mind of your mother, in the mind of your friends, your enemies, your girlfriend or boyfriend. Imagine how regardless of how much someone knows you all they really know is their perception OF you. There are hundreds, perhaps thouands of you in existance because of the different 'you's' that exist in the minds of everyone you come into contact with.

Now, Imagine, what happens to those perceptions when you die? Do they all die with you?

Or maybe we should stop worrying about death and focus on doing something positive, creative, uplifting, destructive, anything. Just prove that you are alive. It's not that life is short, but death is just so long.

-WG
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Old 02-13-2003, 04:28 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by winston grudge
It's not that life is short, but death is just so long.

-WG
All too true.

But then, why worry? It's going to happen sometime. I just don't want to die needlessly. Or to find that any religions preaching eternal punishment were right, lol

Speaking of which, I've chosen my epitaph -

"I hope I wasn't wrong about Christianity."
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Old 02-13-2003, 08:05 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by winston grudge
Imagine that you are you. Your preception of you. This is the you that only you know. Now imagine the you in the mind of everyone you know. The you in the mind of your mother, in the mind of your friends, your enemies, your girlfriend or boyfriend. Imagine how regardless of how much someone knows you all they really know is their perception OF you. There are hundreds, perhaps thouands of you in existance because of the different 'you's' that exist in the minds of everyone you come into contact with.

Now, Imagine, what happens to those perceptions when you die? Do they all die with you?



-WG



Did you just say we will all live on in memory? wait......I just said what you said and it sounded as about as intelligent.
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Old 02-13-2003, 07:08 PM   #55
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first off...............have you seen powder?? great flick

secondly, i have found all of the evidence i need to support the big bang theory see my thread big bang
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Old 02-14-2003, 01:07 PM   #56
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*kicks snapcase* I'm more elloquent.
The reason I wrote out everything in such away was so that people like would see it and think. Not give them the easy way out by blankly making a statement. But hey, if you need stuff put in an easy, one sentance way, fine by me. Just don't read my posts anymore.
And have a nice day.
-WG
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Old 02-14-2003, 03:26 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by winston grudge
*kicks snapcase* I'm more elloquent.
The reason I wrote out everything in such away was so that people like would see it and think. Not give them the easy way out by blankly making a statement. But hey, if you need stuff put in an easy, one sentance way, fine by me. Just don't read my posts anymore.
And have a nice day.
-WG

Ok *reals from WGs internet kick, goes off into a corner and shoots himself but lives on in the memory of all those he knew, he is immortal*
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Old 02-14-2003, 07:42 PM   #58
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The great thing about men is that they think they're original when they rehash the same thing that's been said over and over again with different words.

How does that relate to the meaning of death?

So far, every view of death that anyone's had can be summed up as two different (though not necessarily opposing) ideas of what death is.

The first view is the view common to all religions except atheism, which is death isn't an end, but part of a process. Life as we know it is only a part of what we are, and when that part's over, we keep on going towards... something.

The second view is the view that originated (at least as far as we know) some two and a half millenia ago from Democrites, the Greek guy who prophetized atoms existed. And if atoms exist, then we're nothing but matter. If we are nothing but matter, life is just a process within that, and at some point it ends, and we call it 'death' and that's it.

We have no fucking way in hell to say which is which.

Personally I'm hoping for the first one, but that's all I can do without lying to myself.
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Old 02-14-2003, 09:33 PM   #59
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memory

Ofquote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by winston grudge
Imagine that you are you. Your preception of you. This is the you that only you know. Now imagine the you in the mind of everyone you know. The you in the mind of your mother, in the mind of your friends, your enemies, your girlfriend or boyfriend. Imagine how regardless of how much someone knows you all they really know is their perception OF you. There are hundreds, perhaps thouands of you in existance because of the different 'you's' that exist in the minds of everyone you come into contact with.

Now, Imagine, what happens to those perceptions when you die? Do they all die with you?



-WG
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you just say we will all live on in memory? wait......I just said what you said and it sounded as about as intelligent.


~~~~of course we all live on in memory, but what happens when all the people who remember us also Die?
MW
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Old 02-15-2003, 03:43 PM   #60
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Snapcase- sorry, bad mood that day. Thanks for not taking it seriously.

MW/jerk off-
Then we are truely dead. Time to slowly vibrate with the rest of existance.
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Old 02-24-2003, 07:11 AM   #61
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And now for something completely different...

I just thought of this in shower. Don't think of what it's like after death. That's impossible. We have not experienced it yet. However, we have experienced something very similar... can you guess what it is? Birth. Not of the birth process, but everything before your birth. It seems that from the creation of the universe (God, or otherwise) it was simply an instant and then you were born. Because there was no time for you to interpret, 15.3 billion years was just an instant.

Now, this could be way off of what actually happened, but from as far as i can tell, there is absolutely nothing that happened between creation, and well, my creation. Think of that, and try to smack me down. I thought of this only ten minutes ago, so if i think of other stuff I'll let you know.
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Old 02-24-2003, 07:54 AM   #62
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Where Would You Go?

there is something i dont get... do you wanna say that everybody comes back to earth?... in another body... because if your spirit (or how you called it) stays in this world... and a little goes to the universe... that would mean that you will come back to earth.. only inside a new born baby.. right?...

And when you die... your body will slowly fade... and when there isnt anything left... where does your spirit go?... it cant stay with your old body... because that is gone... have any idea?
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Old 02-24-2003, 10:08 AM   #63
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Since snapcase seems to know everything, I would like to know what he thinks abouts supernatural phenomenon caught on video and photographic images.

I'd like do know what all you other people (that are obviously morons compared to the mental prowess of snapcase) think about this too.
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Old 02-24-2003, 10:15 PM   #64
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If Nirvana was talking to me, well, lemme see if i can try to explain this. I thought of something new while in french class. Before you were born, you could in essence say that you were infinitly non-exsitent, but when you are born, you are suddenly existent, and well, i don't know of anything that is infinite, and then becomes finite (or vise versa), so in theory you become infinitely exsistent. So possibly some sort of conciousness, or spirit remains even after your body dies. What happens next is really just your preference.

I think that most people will simply build a heaven in their minds. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place for everyone, well, if you created heaven then it would be perfect, to your specifications. Other people might reflect on their lives, or a lot of people might create a hell. I'm not really sure. Personally, I'm not really into the transfering of bodies. So, what i'm saying (but i don't really want you to use my view as a guide, I would prefere to hear your interpretation of my reasoning) (Hint hint, Nirvana, what did you think that i meant originally?) is that the spirit or conciousness stays infinitly, and creates whatever life after death is to them.
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Old 02-25-2003, 12:15 AM   #65
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thank you

i just came across this post for it is my first time in the letters section, for some reason i have been wasting my time in the socialize section.. and now that is over that i have found this wonderful wealth of thought and expression... on to my thougths...

Death is in the minds of all that can forsee it, my first memory of dealing with this inevitable truth is during my childhood. for the first time i could grasp death and what it truly meant and i began to cry, i believe it was after dinner and i suddenly began thinking, i had this distinct vision of outer space with planets etc. as the backdrop. i intrinsically thought of my grandfather and how he would die i thought of the feelings i would feel if he were to go forever and i continued crying, for some reason i remember thinking of earthworms too... hmm??? later in life i comforted myself with religion this was during 10-12 years old, my parents thought it was good and so did i. It solved the problem for the time being. After i realized that my parents didn't have the answers i was looking for i rejected religion and found my thoughts settling on atheism. i am alive and so is my brain, when i cease to be alive then so does my brain, when my brain stops then existence stops. however this all changed one very dark night in january...

It started out as just being fungus, then it turned into bliss and gibberish. the static started to swirl and well, something happened... something i'm not sure anyone should hear... maybe i'll start a thread with it.... so we ventured up to his room after a bit, we all knew something had happened... here i proceeded to see the innerspace within everything, the atoms which made up the matter i was laying on etc... it was wonderful... i slowly began to loose touch with my body and as a last effort i whispered "i'm dying" my head hit my knee and i sat motionless for eternity. with much reflection i have found that the time that had passed was timeless, with the words spoken of death immediatly my thoughts turned to the subject at hand i realized that after i die or perhaps i did die... i will never convince myself 100 percent that i am actually alive, it was too real yet surreal in the same momeny. yada yada after i die that i will "wake up" in the same body, in the same existence, "totally void of hate" doomed/blessed to live the same exact life with the same exact experiencings and keep on making the same choices for eternity past present and future.... at least that is what i'm going with nowadays...
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Old 02-25-2003, 10:24 PM   #66
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I really like your post Gregory. I have also thought a lot about the whole repeating thing. I thought of an idea tied into the big bang, in which the universe will expand, and then collapse on itself, and this "pulsing" is what i believe to be called an "Ossilating Universe."

This is how I think the universe works. I also think that right now until infinity in either direction through time, we have been repeating everything in the exact same manner.

Well, actually i'm slightly undecided. I believe in the ossilating universe, however i'm not sure if each pulse is exactly the same, or the events of the previous pulse affect the following pulse. Not like, what humans might do. But what happens to the elements. The stars burn up, and change the elemental makeup of the universe constantly. So, when the universe collapses on itself, and procedes to expand, will the events be different? Because of the slightly altered elementary particle makeup?

So, that's where i'm undecided, so right now, we could be infinitly stuck in this pulsating universe, or, we could be living during this pulse only because the previous pulses allowed the elements to change perfectly to support human life.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:13 PM   #67
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materan, thanks for your ideas

in reference to the universe expanding and collapsing

at times i do agree with your idea that the universe expands and then collapses on it self only to repeat again. however recently after a read of an astronomy magazine the "scientists" are talking about how dark energy will soon take over and the universe will be a void, yet this may be the key to a new cycle taking place. picture a void just like in the big bang story where a ball of energy and mass explodes, perhaps instead of collapsing the void is too much and energy and mass explod just as in the big bang theory... however this may be all hogwash or a filtered truth due to our limited sense of reality. i really don't believe much science has to say nowadays due to them not being able to explain much of what is going on (dark matter) with their pretty "physics"


in reference to determinism

have you ever given thought to the basics of the universe, at least the ones we THINK are the basics. chemicals are really the basics for life and each chemical MUST react with another the same way over and over, the universe is extremely complex and predicting these reactions is impossible with today's minds yet it theory it seems as though we are all made of chemicals therefor they must react within us and outside of us the same way according to their makeup and proximitiy... then again we don't really know much of anything about everything so chemicals could all just be a facade for a deeper pattern...

http://wu.sw0bes.com/universal_pattern.htm
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Old 02-26-2003, 03:50 PM   #68
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The first thing I remember is that I was lying down on a white bed. there were people all around me. They were familiar. The walls were white with blue tinge. I was hooked up to loud machines. I could feel them. My eyes were closed. I cannot open them. My body is still, I cannot move. I am aware of everything going on around me, I can almost feel the room. I realize that the senses I once had were unnecessary. I have evolved.
I feel the doctor in the white coat, pull the sheet over my head. As I regain ‘muscle’ control, I get up off the bed. People are crying softly as I move slowly past them. The physical world remains the same. It will take me some time to get used to this place. It is lonely here. But at last, I am free.
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Old 02-26-2003, 05:11 PM   #69
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pondering death will drive one to insanity, we should always remember the more we try to explain it, the more complex we make it. we should just try to do the best with what we have right now, and worry about the future when it gets here. besides who are we to decide what god wants when we dont even know what we want.
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Old 02-26-2003, 09:40 PM   #70
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insanity is a form of genius

insanity is the path to evolution. you say you are not insane, well i say you are. insanity is in the eye or head of the beholder. insanity is beautiful. GOD DAMNIT fuck fuck fuck it is already too late, you say we shouldn't care about the future well i say the future is cold very cold. the absence of heat is the absense of life... here is something i wrote during a moment of "clarity"

Shivering

think to the future
cells
further
future
cold
cellular struggle ahead
it IS colder
the trees are sleeping
...in the future

if we keep numbing our minds with a fake reality that things are safe and will stay that way soon everyone will come to realize that they are whiley coyote in the middle of the air off the edge of the cliff and it is only a matter of time until the comedic pause ends and we fall to our extinction... honestly do you not understand the consequences of the cancer that we keep building, humans keep building death and destroying life, more and more and more and more... GOD DAMNIT where is the sense of urgency, right now my only hopes resides in some sort of lifeform surviving our extinction, if only a single tree survives or even a blade of grass, maybe even a virus or bacteria, then perhaps another form of sentient life may actually find a balance instead of multiplying and fucking mother earth into oblivion. FUCKING WAKE UP!

...i have plans to build a spaceship which has a sentient computer on board, which i will overcome and reach Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite, perhaps behind the monolith lies the path of truth...
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:02 PM   #71
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I understand your anger Gregory, but you need to accept certain things. While it may be a very good thing that you are trying to wake people up, well, humans are too comfortable with where they are right now. If you try and accept things for the way they are, then anger seems to dissapate. I have recently tried to accept most people as sleeping. There's nothing we can do, and well, maybe it's better off that way. I'm not really sure why, simply, because I try not to think of those things.

Guy...
I know what you are saying, about worrying about death. Well, it's not that I'm worrying about death, I'm simply curious. I have a feeling that if we were to better understand, well, have a personal belief about what happens after death, then it can change how you live your life. It has done so for me. Just look up there ^. I seem to be accepting of things as just the natural way of happening. I'm not really sure exactly what I will gain, but I just have a feeling that I will become better later on, if I come to an agreement with my mind about what may happen after death. That's why I decided to ask other people, so we may all help eachother.
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:48 PM   #72
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matteran
[B]I understand your anger Gregory, but you need to accept certain things. While it may be a very good thing that you are trying to wake people up, well, humans are too comfortable with where they are right now. If you try and accept things for the way they are, then anger seems to dissapate. I have recently tried to accept most people as sleeping. There's nothing we can do, and well, maybe it's better off that way. I'm not really sure why, simply, because I try not to think of those things.QUOTE]

I'm thinkin that was covered in 'The Matrix'. Damn fine movie.
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Old 02-27-2003, 12:34 PM   #73
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Yeah, I was thinking that the whole time I was writting, and almost considered mentioning it. I guess I didn't
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Old 03-02-2003, 11:28 AM   #74
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Hurray, I recently thought up something I found to be quite interesting (to me at least). All of the philosophers, physical scientists, astronomers, and thinkers of the past centuries have based their research on a thought that was not and cannot be proven, but was assumed. This thought is the hierarchy of the space-time continuum.


The continuum can be thought of in three ways:

1. Without motion, or change in space, there is no time.

2. Without time, there is no change.

3. Without either, there is no reality


I'm pretty sure that current physical theories assume that the latter of the three is correct. This states that both time and space have an equal hierarchical status, and without either, nothing can exist.

I however, believe that without time, there is no change, but without change, time still continues. Yet time itself does not cause change. I feel that there are primary forces that act in a physical environment in order to maintain the continuum. These include attraction, resistance, repulsion, and intelligence. The point at which change stops is when all of these forces are resolved. In order for these forces to take action, dimensional time must exist.

In addition, I believe that this why we live, and die as well; in order to resolve the universe. Who knows, once everything ends, maybe we will be reborn when the process begins once more.

That is my theory on death and reality. It may be wrong, but in being open minded I accept anything as a possibility.
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