Ok, I am still very conflicted on this, and am interested in everyone's take on this.
I've been to about 8 TOOL shows in my life(i catch em every chance i get) and guaranteed someone is gonna shout, "Maynard you are god!!" Everyone laughs and brushes it off and some parrot it. Recently I heard a story from a very reliable source in the industry about how Maynard slept with some groupie stripper chik. My intent is not to spread rumors here. Whether or not the story is true, I became very disheartened when I heard it. I always and still do hold Maynard to a very high ideal and respect, so what the fuck is doing sleeping with groupies? I consulted a fellow toolophile(who actually firmly believes MJK is of a non-human species) on this and he said,"hell ya, i'd do the same thing, he is a rockstar, THat doesn't detract from who he is or the music he puts out" That didn't make me feel any better.
My question to all you kidz is, Is Maynard just a man and person with needs, and desires, and sins, like anyone of us? Or is he something higher, something special that none of us can ever touch? Obviously Maynard is extremely intelligent, an amazing vocalist, an astonishing performer and I'm sure many other things. I'd like to think that in everyone us there is the potential to achieve the caliber of creativity that Maynard and TOOL have produced but does make what TOOL has done any less special? And furthermore, even if a band of TOOL's rank will never ever come out again because they are so far beyond human understanding, then does that exempt them from primal human urges and nature?
Very Curious as to how tool fans around the globe feel about this.
i wouldn't say that maynard is simply at the level of us all...
because i believe morons and simps plague the majority of this planet's population...
but i wouldn't single maynard out as someone with a higher conciousness...he is among thousands on this earth, hell danny is probably above him on a spiritual plane... but i believe there are many above us... i will not however put them on a pedestal
Man, you have completly lost the concept of what Tool is.
Maynard a God? Dont you see thats precisly the opposite of tool´s message? Maynard is just like you and me. I would never question his higher mental and spiritual evolution.
The deal is not worship him like a god, the message is to achieve what he has achieved, to improve ourselves.
And please, what about the groupie? We are all made of flesh and bone...
ha, i actually caught the humour of your post, Synthemesk, and i am quite impressed by your ability to fool your fellow TOOL fans . . .
on another note, im actually more interested in danny carey than maynard . . . the way d.c. carries on with his esoterica, youd think people would be shouting, "danny is god" at concerts . . . that, and the way he plays those drums of his . . .
people love celebrities . . . people love the fact that there are famous, talented people out there who seem otherwordly . . .
. . . it gives the rest of us low-lifes something to aim for ;) . . .
hey, just wanna post a followup because the more I think about this topic the more it bugs me....
Basically to sum up the question I posed above what is the relationship between Tool, and their fans?
Let me share two experiences I've had with the band. After the Syracuse show this past tour, Me and my girl waited by the tour bus for TOOL to come out. After seeing an incredible show we were all jazzed up and everything and finally each member trickled out, starting with Adam. When he came out, the small crowd that had assembled there was quiet, an awkward quiet. It took me saying "yeah, Adam!" and clapping my hands for the rest of the crowd to do the same. Next was Maynard who came out wearing jeans and his G-mart t-shirt. This time the crowd instantly applauded. Then eventually Danny came out wearing a Fishbone tee, and then Justin. My point is that when these guys are on stage, THEY ARE GODS. But then seeing them after the show, it was like they were normal people that you could run into any day of the week....that is if you didn't know who they were. I think I just answered my own question. But I shall continue anyway....
Second experience, was the Halloween show this year at Nassau Coliseum in NY. This show was by far the best show I'd seen,, even surpassing the unbelievable Radio City show in manhattan. Anyway after the show, me and my girl did our normal routine of tracking down the tour buses(stalker-much?, heh) So we just chilled in my car(it was fucking freazing) "conveniently" parked right next to Meshuggah's bus and TOol's bus. We chilled there for a while, then all of a sudden Danny and two other guys walk by my car and started unloading some gear from the car parked right next to ours. Both of us were too much of a pussy to get out and say hello. My point here is to show the contrast between these GODS on stage, and normal people outside that arena.
I say they are Gods on stage because they are definitely distinct from ordinary people by that they can move, inspire, influence, and tear down massive crowds with the point of a finger, a strum of a note, or a glance of the eye.
By the way if you plan on posting the fact that I am a big fat lame dork, you mind as well save your precious time, because I already know that.
maynard is a very talented man. the whole band is talented. they are extremely good at what they do. they have been working together for years under an outstanding work ethic and mutual repsect. that is why they are able to come together and produce performances that blow people away and make them think they aren't human. the music/shows are very emotional and i think sometimes emotions seem otherworldly to people who are not comfortabe with their own emotions. maynard is definitely unique and one of the most creative teachers alive today but he is human. you should have said hi to danny when he was next to your car, synth. he probably would have been really cool if he wasnt too busy, just like any other person.
maynard is a higher being in the sense that he is willing to go beyond the norm, to push himself and his mind as far as he can go. so, i guess that doesn't actually make him a higher being, just a role model, more or less. he really has inspired me to do so much more with what is around me, and to take myself and my thinking to another level. but he is no god, no, no, no. i don't like that type of talk in here. i'm just joking, of course, but i don't think it's right to label him as some type of deity when he is a just a human being like you and me.
the members of tool to me are four talented and extremely intruiging guys that i would like to meet one day over coffee as we talk about the state of the world. and then, later on go play soccer or basketball with them. i don't know. they seem like nice people that i would just like to be friends with. to me they are not gods or anything else. though they do seem pretty magnificent on stage.
Maynard is a normal every day person like me and (hopefully) you. Where you came up with the idea of him being 'God' is completely absurd. Of course he is probably more intellegent than any of us, and more charasmatic, but that doesn't make him a God. If anyone should be God, it should be Adam.
__________________ short wave dictator launches the blitzkrieg upon your frontal lobe the unexpected siege of the fortress thought impenetrable "world peace" just a few elusive frequencies away for there is no enslavement more absolute than unconscious enslavement.
i'm sure this goes without saying... so risking redundancy:
Tool's thing is the music more than it is the image or the artists themselves.
a friend of mine once mentioned Maynard being a dick during an interview, and i've heard that before. this is simply to say: FUCK OFF, we're not important - let the music speak for itself.
besides, you are all wrong. God is a small, furry woodland animal located somewhere in the Canadian outback.
I agree with what some of the people have already said , Maynard is just a aman , a very talented man, but a man nonetheless. Given the number of dribbling morons on the streets (certainly is this country) you can forgive people's keenness to idolize someone with the guts to be different.
he's not just a man, not to be chessy, but he is the man. not a god, a higher conciousness, is just the case. and besides, ever read greek mythology? zeus had plenty of fun with mortals...
if maynard and tool help to reaffirm our faith in humanity (and i put it to you that they have) then they have done the only work that should ever be ascribed to a god. gods are merely survival mechanism to guide us through this void of life. the concept itself is too shaky, but "verisimilitude" is undoubtedly one of the best usernames i have ever seen!
look, i would be a bad tool-site-web-guy if i ruined the party here.
but i don't think you want to know the truth.
there have been years and years of interactions between the band and myself and others ... just trust me when you say "you don't want to know the truth."
Oww what wonderful luck you have great Kabir to be a liason from our dieties. For certainly you are our shaman. One so strange and on the fringe of our world, touched and blessed and changed by our beloved Gods.
Ok all kidding aside any performer knows that people will find them to be greater then life simply because what they are doing...creating is a force of divinity. We share in this ability we are capable of creating things however Tool as a whole not just Maynard have a great ability to create music that inspires and conveys a lot. We identify with anyone that is capable of moving us...anyone that can make our lives better should at one time be praised but not to the point of exaltation. He and they are just men and im sure in their off time they enjoy doing some less then divine things..."See you auntie" for instance or just chilling out eating listening to music or watching Jackass even. Just because someone is capable of creating beauty doesn't mean that this is the only thing that they do. When they are on stage they do a great job of portraying an alienness a distance and power that is created by their hidden nature (dark on stage) this allows the listeners to connect on this higher point because they realize they are just men...they realize that when we (if we were lucky) spoke to them (and not dribbled saying oww my god) that we would realize that we are no different then they are. That I think is perhaps the most inspiring thing about them...they ARE just men but they are capable of moving millions. What they do is beautiful and if I had to say it yes it is miraculous to move so many but as I said they are just men.
...But Kabir! *bows and grovels on the ground* Ohh great one who has blessed us with this forum in which to type I am your humble servant
maynard... possibly the best singer ever... possibly the coolest person I have ver heard of... but as soon as you call him a god he becomes the character of "Eulogy" " I swallowed deep my pride cuz I'm so eager to identify with someone above the crowd, someone who seemed to feel the same, someone prepared to lead the way....." tool was an influence in my falling out with christianity.. that's swallowing my pride or inside(I can't hear the difference). but to me when you say he is god or a devine figure he turns into the next fool martyr
so be a bit smartyr
Originally posted by Misoanthropos i wouldn't say that maynard is simply at the level of us all...
because i believe morons and simps plague the majority of this planet's population...
but i wouldn't single maynard out as someone with a higher conciousness...he is among thousands on this earth, hell danny is probably above him on a spiritual plane... but i believe there are many above us... i will not however put them on a pedestal
It is very, very stupid to think that Mr. Keegan is above all of us. Yes he is smart, and yes he is talanted. Just because he is in a band doesn't make him God.
If he wasn't in a band you wouldn't know ANYTHING about him therefore your God wouldn't be there!
Seriously now.. who would think that he is more than human?
I think Maynard is God, I think Danny is God, I think Justin and Adam are too. I think we are all a part of God. If energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, then where was the energy we have inside us now at the beginning? I think since we are all connected and always have been, we were there at the beginning and we chose the direction of creation. That is the power of God. We still choose the direction of creation, with every thought, action, desire, dream. We just forgot that we do and are just now remembering it. It's just that some remember it a little clearer and can utilize that knowledge a little more than others. I would say Maynard is one such person, but I don't know the man. I just know he tries his damndest to wake people up. I think he wishes he could choke us all sometimes, and wake those who would up that way, but instead he tries to teach us to teach ourselves. Not just him, the other guys in the band do JUST AS MUCH to teach us that message. The music is a teacher, a warning, an awakener, a deprogrammer. And as rough as some of the music is at times, it's not nearly as rough as it could be.
Personally, I don't believe in God... nor do I hate him/her/it as many people may think. I cannot hate what I don't believe in. The same thing obviously goes for Satan.
(My favorite of Maynard's quotes has got to be "I love fairytales" when referring to Christianity)
But I will say that Maynard is a human being. Just like you and me. (Well physically anyway...) Although he absolutely has a higher state of conciousness and spirituality, he obviously is man.
I would like to add though that being referred to as "god" was some of the reason Kurt Cobain killed himself... if he did kill himself that is.... But that's a whole other topic....
Do you not think there is a higher power/source of creation/force of life then? Or are you saying you don't "believe" in the Christian-formulated (that was their first problem, trying to formulate spirituality) version of "God?" I have always said that atheists are as closed as christians, for they still have a belief. the belief that there is no God. The higher ground expects no beliefs whatsoever, but to form our creations around experiences, knowledge, and especially intuition. Faith is defined as the "hope of things unseen." Now I can understand why people for a long time had faith, but the time has come to SEE those things that were before unseen. What use does faith or belief have once you've seen those things? They instead keep us from seeing past those walls. Every belief forms structures in our minds, and those structures have a tendency to block out anything that would otherwise disprove it. Tool helps smash those walls down so we can help ourselves see what is really there instead of the same decorated walls day in and day out.
I can definately see your reasoning behind classifying Atheists into a religion, for there IS still a belief. But, wouldn't it therefore lead you to believe that it doesn't always have to be Christianity that they classify into? Couldn't they really be classifyed into any/all religions? Well I definately agree on your points of formulating spirituality being the Christians' first mistake... and also when you say "Tool helps smash those walls down so we can help ourselves see what is really there instead of the same decorated walls day in and day out." In my opinion, though, it is not only Tool, but basically all bands out there... in a sense that is...
I vote god, but then again, I think we are all gods. And once you stop seeing maynard as something different or better than you, you will be closer to achieving many of your goals, just a maynard has.
As far as the original post, I would like to comment on how funny I think it is that Synthemesk was worried maynard was "bad" or "un-godlike" because he had sex. Not attacking you Synthemesk, just using this statement as an example on how many americans think (and often me, although I’m trying to correct it).
The american version of protestant christianity is an offshoot of Puratinism and Quakers. I know there are exceptions to this, but the puritan way of thinking has permeated almost all cultures and sects of christianity despite their origin. Puritans thought sex, the human body, having fun, dancing, and pleasure in general was evil. So therefore, many of us are the screwed up end product of this warped thinking. We were brought up to think sex, and our bodies, are evil and nasty. So guess what happened next? We start to believe WE are evil and nasty for liking and wanting to have sex. So we bottle up our urges because we think we are perverts. Now we transpose these negative, warped feeling about sexuality on our sexual relationships. The result? Americans have the highest rates in the world of every sexual crime you can imagine; rape, child molestation, etc. All of this sexual crime and we are more careful than the rest of world not to show a naked person on tv, or say dirty words that refer to our private parts (but on the other hand, any 10 year old can see a murder on network TV any night of the week). And if you don’t believe prohibition creates perversion, ask a catholic priest.
So yes, I believe a person can be good and have sex with a groupie. After all, Jesus had sex with Mary Magdalene (a Jesus groupie) and their children survived and went to southern France, and Jesus was a good person.
__________________ Et In Arcadia Ego
Last edited by Metatron's Cube; 12-23-2002 at 04:34 AM..
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShackledEidolon
[B]people find them to be greater then life simply because what they are doing...creating is a force of divinity. We share in this ability we are capable of creating things however Tool as a whole not just Maynard have a great ability to create music that inspires and conveys a lot. We identify with anyone that is capable of moving us... ''
Personally, i couldnt have put it better myself. Euthanasia got it right when he said that identifying them as gods, or 'alien beings' is not the point of tool. The reason why we're having this conversation is partly because of the fact that all the 2000 somehting members feel the same identification with the band. Tool does make amazing music; music that we all identify with; and music that helps us cope with the day. But mistaking that as a sign of god - liness wouldnt be the wisest approach.
However, i have to disagree with stager lee, i personally dont feel that all god is is a support structure, (i believe theres is a stark distinction between what religeon offers, and what god does) agreed, it is based on shaly ground. but i mean, realistically speaking, so is everything else. Is seeing really believing? (if so, then science probably got everything right) and when it comes down to it, the very existance of us, of earth can be questioned (Answer me this, if you take a nap, and you dream of a world, which evolves etc etc, turns into what we have now, and you wake up.. did that world you dreamed of really exist?), but i apologize, thats a differant post, on a differant website. (no offence to stagger lee)
so thats my two cents... i wouldnt go as far as to say taht tool are gods. And i wouldnt really venture out to say that they are 'cool people' because, excpet for kabir, and a few other exceptions, we've all had what.. 5 - 10 mins of actual conversation with the guys in the band. We have to start skimming off what is our own idealism when we try to judge someones character.
It should however be metioned that maynard's lyrical talents are beyond perception, and over all, the bands ability is beyond all competition (yeah, how come everyone seems to have forgotten mr. Chancellor, and Mr. Jones?) it IS a BAND, 4 people, and considering the article by the alternative press, no one should get any exemplary credit.
[Person who started the thread] nice subject choice man... and if you were being humorous, nice touch.
Excuse any spelling mistakes.
This ground is not the rock i thought it to be....
spreading the love, and maybe a little crotch rot.
Color me stupid, but I missed the subtle humor in the first post. When I heard RUMORS about Keenan sleeping around with groupies I was disapointed because I thought I had found a rock band that didn't act like a rock band, with ideas that represented mine. I could identify with them at first because they seemed as pissed off as I was/am. But if the rumors are true, I don't know. What kind of guy wouldn't succumb to groupie "pressure"? Stickin' it to whatever crawled off of the last tour bus to roll through town? Possibly knowing second hand what Fred Durst tastes like?(yeah, real sexy) How about a SMART guy? I'm not judging morals here, just common sense, I don't have much use for people without any of that. Who knows, if these rumors are true, we may have a "typhoid Maynard" . The ultimate way to play god.
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I also heard rumors about Maynard sleeping with groupies, that he has a contact in every state. But, that's probably a bunch of bullshit. Even though Maynard is a rock star, he is married, and has a son. Now I don't know the guy at all, but I'm just guessing that he wouldn't sleep around when he has a son and wife to think about.
I could always be wrong. I wonder what Kabir meant by, trust me you don't want to know the truth. Why would you talk to them if the truth is scary.
Don't place distrust in the essence of the word "GOD", but place skeptisism in the way of superficial advocates, ie Christianity, and similar teachings that ultimately want you to believe 'this is what God thinks, and this is how you should structure your life.'
I can't help but think, If there was a God, wouldn't this entity want to influence your life as individually as possible, enabling you to form your own ideas and thoughts, and not filtered thru religious gospels. Why do we need these groups to help us further understand GOD?
Think for yourself, question authority.........or in other words be careful of how you came to believe something.
The deal is not worship him like a god, the message is to achieve what he has achieved, to improve ourselves.
So, God is dead. Let’s strive for the Overman? Thus it sounds like to me, that Tool is very Nietzschean in thought.
__________________ Knowledge initially implies a certain political conformity in its presentation.
In a history course, you are asked to learn certain things and to ignore others: thus, certain things form the content of knowledge and its norms. - Michel Foucault
__________________ "a mass of gallon sloth, as flys have walls for feet, a rapturous-verbatim-someone said but who's to know, and when you find the fringe, the one last hit that spent you, you'll find the ossuary is spilling by the day"
