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Seven Deep's Avatar Seven Deep
05-03-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment".

Pro Tools

It's the best and worst thing to ever happen to recording.
Old 05-03-2006, 04:33 PM   #161
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment".

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It's the best and worst thing to ever happen to recording.
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collapsed shell's Avatar collapsed shell
05-03-2006, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuzi
In all fairness, there are certain trends dominant in mastering these days which are likely at least partially responsible for the sound of 10k Days. The whole over-compressed, maximum-volumizer type of sound is very much the thing, and Tool aren't alone in being stung with it.

Here's an article on the subject in relation to Rush and Vapor Trails:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

But that's not really an excuse, given the extremely tight ship Tool normally run when it comes to presenting their stuff. They bucked current trends at the time back in 1996 with the sound on Aenima and it was one of the best decisions they ever made.
that article showed me i have no idea how much it takes to make professional music. that was a great read. and even though i don't know all the stuff behind it all his points are very clear. i don't feel the TOOL cd is ruined by any strectch but after reading this i do realise parts of the record that could have possibly sounded a lot cleaner.

TOOL did a great job and i can only imagine how much of a bitch it must be to actually control something like a worldwide released record.
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Old 05-03-2006, 05:02 PM   #162
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuzi
In all fairness, there are certain trends dominant in mastering these days which are likely at least partially responsible for the sound of 10k Days. The whole over-compressed, maximum-volumizer type of sound is very much the thing, and Tool aren't alone in being stung with it.

Here's an article on the subject in relation to Rush and Vapor Trails:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

But that's not really an excuse, given the extremely tight ship Tool normally run when it comes to presenting their stuff. They bucked current trends at the time back in 1996 with the sound on Aenima and it was one of the best decisions they ever made.
that article showed me i have no idea how much it takes to make professional music. that was a great read. and even though i don't know all the stuff behind it all his points are very clear. i don't feel the TOOL cd is ruined by any strectch but after reading this i do realise parts of the record that could have possibly sounded a lot cleaner.

TOOL did a great job and i can only imagine how much of a bitch it must be to actually control something like a worldwide released record.
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darksound
05-03-2006, 06:56 PM
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the production is amazing very in your face at times and very emotional.... you can feel the everything breathe and hear the instruments the way they probably sounded in the studio and not over coloured with plug-ins and effects chains done during the mixing and mastering... the album has a very "in the studio" feel where you can picture the guys playing it in front of you... very well recorded... and the bass is just perfect thumping and amazing. great job!
Old 05-03-2006, 06:56 PM   #163
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

the production is amazing very in your face at times and very emotional.... you can feel the everything breathe and hear the instruments the way they probably sounded in the studio and not over coloured with plug-ins and effects chains done during the mixing and mastering... the album has a very "in the studio" feel where you can picture the guys playing it in front of you... very well recorded... and the bass is just perfect thumping and amazing. great job!
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jsn's Avatar jsn
05-03-2006, 07:53 PM
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i can hear the drums really good. i think they just aren't separated as much as the last record.
Old 05-03-2006, 07:53 PM   #164
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

i can hear the drums really good. i think they just aren't separated as much as the last record.
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-03-2006, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by identity_theory
it's still not going to be the same dramatic stuff, but more a Pink Floyd fluidity which I really like a lot..
Pink Floyd fluidity?

Jesus H, I can name a hundred bands with that fluid shit, from Isis to Pelican to Mars Volta to Coheed and Crapria, on and on.

Go listen to Aenima or even Lateralus again. Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone.
Old 05-03-2006, 08:42 PM   #165
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by identity_theory
it's still not going to be the same dramatic stuff, but more a Pink Floyd fluidity which I really like a lot..
Pink Floyd fluidity?

Jesus H, I can name a hundred bands with that fluid shit, from Isis to Pelican to Mars Volta to Coheed and Crapria, on and on.

Go listen to Aenima or even Lateralus again. Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone.
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jsn's Avatar jsn
05-03-2006, 08:49 PM
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"Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone."

i don't think so. it's just a different form. be patient and give it a chance.
it takes a lot of time to digest these albums.
Old 05-03-2006, 08:49 PM   #166
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

"Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone."

i don't think so. it's just a different form. be patient and give it a chance.
it takes a lot of time to digest these albums.
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-03-2006, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
When you have a semi-decent grasp of recording principles and techniques.

10,000 Days sounds like the recording was done from a manual.
Theres no character to it.
Thank you.

But you don't even need to be a pro to hear what 10000 Days lacks, all you need to do is OBJECTIVELY listen to Aenima, or even Lateralus.
Old 05-03-2006, 09:05 PM   #167
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
When you have a semi-decent grasp of recording principles and techniques.

10,000 Days sounds like the recording was done from a manual.
Theres no character to it.
Thank you.

But you don't even need to be a pro to hear what 10000 Days lacks, all you need to do is OBJECTIVELY listen to Aenima, or even Lateralus.
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justify_denials's Avatar justify_denials
05-03-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolophane
I'm not so sure that making the guitars louder really makes you use your brain anymore than normal. Sure, you will use your ears more because you have to listen more carefully to hear everything he's doing...but that's not really the same thing.
It was a way of achieving a louder sound with it completly sounding like shit.....Keep the guitars up, and everything else down in volume, but clipping at its max like its doing..........to listen to this album I gotta turn the volume up all the way and yet it still basicly sounds the same as if it were a low volume......Keep the guitar volume up so when you turn the volume up for listening to the songs you dont have drums and bass in the background pounding the shit out of your ears as well. If you ask me, the production and the mixing they did on this album is actually quite brilliant and I have yet to hear any one else do it or attempt to for that matter......
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:22 PM   #168
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Re: 10K Days; Too much guitar, not enough drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolophane
I'm not so sure that making the guitars louder really makes you use your brain anymore than normal. Sure, you will use your ears more because you have to listen more carefully to hear everything he's doing...but that's not really the same thing.
It was a way of achieving a louder sound with it completly sounding like shit.....Keep the guitars up, and everything else down in volume, but clipping at its max like its doing..........to listen to this album I gotta turn the volume up all the way and yet it still basicly sounds the same as if it were a low volume......Keep the guitar volume up so when you turn the volume up for listening to the songs you dont have drums and bass in the background pounding the shit out of your ears as well. If you ask me, the production and the mixing they did on this album is actually quite brilliant and I have yet to hear any one else do it or attempt to for that matter......
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justify_denials's Avatar justify_denials
05-03-2006, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
Pink Floyd fluidity?

Jesus H, I can name a hundred bands with that fluid shit, from Isis to Pelican to Mars Volta to Coheed and Crapria, on and on.

Go listen to Aenima or even Lateralus again. Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone.
yes, the bass riffs with effects at the beginning bits of Jambi sounds like The Wall........and Wings (marie pt2) sounds kind of like the song Welcome to the Machine........
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:24 PM   #169
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
Pink Floyd fluidity?

Jesus H, I can name a hundred bands with that fluid shit, from Isis to Pelican to Mars Volta to Coheed and Crapria, on and on.

Go listen to Aenima or even Lateralus again. Its the intense "dramatic stuff" which made TooL TooL, what made them not just great, but the Best. And its gone.
yes, the bass riffs with effects at the beginning bits of Jambi sounds like The Wall........and Wings (marie pt2) sounds kind of like the song Welcome to the Machine........
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justify_denials's Avatar justify_denials
05-03-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
I guess 5 years of preparation and planning wasn't enough.
no, it was on purpose......It all makes sense you look at the pics in case, and listen to the lyrics, and observe how stupid people are what what time does to people then who'll realize everything on this album was intentional.
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:30 PM   #170
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Re: 10K Days; Too much guitar, not enough drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by submachine
I guess 5 years of preparation and planning wasn't enough.
no, it was on purpose......It all makes sense you look at the pics in case, and listen to the lyrics, and observe how stupid people are what what time does to people then who'll realize everything on this album was intentional.
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telefunken_u47
05-03-2006, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuzi
Damn straight. He's *one of* the best, but nowhere near an all-around best. Vinnie Colaiuta certainly comes a lot closer to that, the man could sight-read the hardest stuff Frank Zappa could come up with while still eating his lunch, and yet he can still play amazingly tasteful stuff on pop albums... or play on a Megadeth CD.
2nd that notion... Love DC and godamnit if it didn't take me many hours of practice before I could play that polyrythmic groove in the middle of Eulogy, but Vinnie C is on a totally different level.

With regards to all of the posts about the drums not being as present as in previous records, DC knows a thing or two about production and probably could have had the sound changed if he wanted.
Old 05-03-2006, 09:35 PM   #171
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuzi
Damn straight. He's *one of* the best, but nowhere near an all-around best. Vinnie Colaiuta certainly comes a lot closer to that, the man could sight-read the hardest stuff Frank Zappa could come up with while still eating his lunch, and yet he can still play amazingly tasteful stuff on pop albums... or play on a Megadeth CD.
2nd that notion... Love DC and godamnit if it didn't take me many hours of practice before I could play that polyrythmic groove in the middle of Eulogy, but Vinnie C is on a totally different level.

With regards to all of the posts about the drums not being as present as in previous records, DC knows a thing or two about production and probably could have had the sound changed if he wanted.
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justify_denials's Avatar justify_denials
05-03-2006, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.

Flame away sheep.
"chasing the tail of dogma........"
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:36 PM   #172
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.

Flame away sheep.
"chasing the tail of dogma........"
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innergalactic
05-03-2006, 10:09 PM
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this is silly
Old 05-03-2006, 10:09 PM   #173
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

this is silly
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schmeng's Avatar schmeng
05-03-2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innergalactic
this is silly

wow, your first ever post is sooo intense... what a waste of time
Old 05-03-2006, 10:21 PM   #174
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by innergalactic
this is silly

wow, your first ever post is sooo intense... what a waste of time
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-04-2006, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmeny
The best bit of this thread is Submachines avatar clearly displaying how 'tool' should look in the logo style they've gone for, which clearly says fool.
The logo needed help...not unlike the mixing/production.
Old 05-04-2006, 02:52 AM   #175
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmeny
The best bit of this thread is Submachines avatar clearly displaying how 'tool' should look in the logo style they've gone for, which clearly says fool.
The logo needed help...not unlike the mixing/production.
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toolsong
05-04-2006, 12:45 PM
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Analysis of Vicarious

Code:
			Left		Right
Min Sample Value:	-32768		-32768
Max Sample Value:	32767		32767
Peak Amplitude:		0 dB		0 dB

Possibly Clipped:	49		7      ************** oh crap

DC Offset:		.005 		.005 
Minimum RMS Power:	-85.49 dB	-85.71 dB
Maximum RMS Power:	-5.37 dB	-4.27 dB
Average RMS Power:	-11.36 dB	-11.51 dB
Total RMS Power:	-10.91 dB	-11.01 dB
Actual Bit Depth:	16 Bits		16 Bits
Old 05-04-2006, 12:45 PM   #176
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Analysis of Vicarious

Code:
			Left		Right
Min Sample Value:	-32768		-32768
Max Sample Value:	32767		32767
Peak Amplitude:		0 dB		0 dB

Possibly Clipped:	49		7      ************** oh crap

DC Offset:		.005 		.005 
Minimum RMS Power:	-85.49 dB	-85.71 dB
Maximum RMS Power:	-5.37 dB	-4.27 dB
Average RMS Power:	-11.36 dB	-11.51 dB
Total RMS Power:	-10.91 dB	-11.01 dB
Actual Bit Depth:	16 Bits		16 Bits
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Seven Deep's Avatar Seven Deep
05-04-2006, 12:54 PM
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That analysis is from your copy, not the glass master, which makes it inaccurate. The clipping could have happened anywhere along the chain, but your playback device is still going to read amplitudes of 0. Dig?

Exactly why Atari Teenage Riot can make CDs.
Old 05-04-2006, 12:54 PM   #177
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

That analysis is from your copy, not the glass master, which makes it inaccurate. The clipping could have happened anywhere along the chain, but your playback device is still going to read amplitudes of 0. Dig?

Exactly why Atari Teenage Riot can make CDs.
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pain's Avatar pain
05-04-2006, 01:37 PM
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Add me to the list of people that can definitely hear clipping/hissing/crackling at various points in the songs. It started bothering me so much that I borrowed a friend's copy for comparison, thought it may have sounded a tad bit better, went to the store to buy a new one, just to end up with the same problem again.

I have been tweaking my EQ settings to compensate for the problem, and decreasing the volume I am listening to the album at, but it's really unfortunate because I would rather enjoy it as is.

What locations are the people that have this issue from? I am from Vermont, and I wonder if it is localized to certain batches that went out...

Last edited by pain; 05-05-2006 at 07:28 AM..
Old 05-04-2006, 01:37 PM   #178
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Re: Clipping

Add me to the list of people that can definitely hear clipping/hissing/crackling at various points in the songs. It started bothering me so much that I borrowed a friend's copy for comparison, thought it may have sounded a tad bit better, went to the store to buy a new one, just to end up with the same problem again.

I have been tweaking my EQ settings to compensate for the problem, and decreasing the volume I am listening to the album at, but it's really unfortunate because I would rather enjoy it as is.

What locations are the people that have this issue from? I am from Vermont, and I wonder if it is localized to certain batches that went out...

Last edited by pain; 05-05-2006 at 07:28 AM..
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 01:37 PM
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toolsong,

That's funny, I hear much more clipping in the left channel...looks like your analysis tool could be correct...one thing...the clipping I hear is in the exact same spot on the leak as well.

What is that tool you used to analyze the track? I'd like to do the same with my disc, see how similar our output is.
Old 05-04-2006, 01:37 PM   #179
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

toolsong,

That's funny, I hear much more clipping in the left channel...looks like your analysis tool could be correct...one thing...the clipping I hear is in the exact same spot on the leak as well.

What is that tool you used to analyze the track? I'd like to do the same with my disc, see how similar our output is.
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 01:45 PM
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BTW, I'm from STL, and since it was in the same areas on the leak, I have to say that I don' t think it's localized.
Old 05-04-2006, 01:45 PM   #180
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

BTW, I'm from STL, and since it was in the same areas on the leak, I have to say that I don' t think it's localized.
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 02:06 PM
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OK, just ran my analysis of Vicarious with Cool Edit 2. Vicarious is in WAV format ripped from the retail disc with Exact Audio Copy. Here's the results:


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 49 7
DC Offset: .005 .005
Minimum RMS Power: -85.48 dB -85.71 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -5.37 dB -4.27 dB
Average RMS Power: -11.36 dB -11.51 dB
Total RMS Power: -10.91 dB -11.01 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

Pretty darn close to toolsong's..and the possible clipping counts are exactly the same.

Last edited by kungfool; 05-04-2006 at 02:16 PM..
Old 05-04-2006, 02:06 PM   #181
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

OK, just ran my analysis of Vicarious with Cool Edit 2. Vicarious is in WAV format ripped from the retail disc with Exact Audio Copy. Here's the results:


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 49 7
DC Offset: .005 .005
Minimum RMS Power: -85.48 dB -85.71 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -5.37 dB -4.27 dB
Average RMS Power: -11.36 dB -11.51 dB
Total RMS Power: -10.91 dB -11.01 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

Pretty darn close to toolsong's..and the possible clipping counts are exactly the same.

Last edited by kungfool; 05-04-2006 at 02:16 PM..
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 02:20 PM
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Rosetta Stoned, yikes:

Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 51 53
DC Offset: -.001 -.001
Minimum RMS Power: -68.88 dB -69.51 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.77 dB -4.39 dB
Average RMS Power: -10.73 dB -11.3 dB
Total RMS Power: -10.43 dB -10.98 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms
Old 05-04-2006, 02:20 PM   #182
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Rosetta Stoned, yikes:

Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 51 53
DC Offset: -.001 -.001
Minimum RMS Power: -68.88 dB -69.51 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.77 dB -4.39 dB
Average RMS Power: -10.73 dB -11.3 dB
Total RMS Power: -10.43 dB -10.98 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms
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peripheral
05-04-2006, 02:30 PM
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in regard to clippings...
i have a newspaper clipping of calvin & hobbes above my workstation; does that help or hurt my listening experience??
Old 05-04-2006, 02:30 PM   #183
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

in regard to clippings...
i have a newspaper clipping of calvin & hobbes above my workstation; does that help or hurt my listening experience??
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles
I have no clipping, should I be worried?

Sir McRoggles,

If you feel like obtaining a copy of Cool Edit 2 by your own means, and would want to do an analyze so we could compare with someone who doesn't have the clipping, that would be great. It would be good to know if there are 'good' copies floating around.

If you are able, rip the song with a good WAV ripper (exact audio copy is the best, www.exactaudiocopy.de), then open the wav in cool edit, and go to Analyze/statistics.

Thanks
Old 05-04-2006, 02:40 PM   #184
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles
I have no clipping, should I be worried?

Sir McRoggles,

If you feel like obtaining a copy of Cool Edit 2 by your own means, and would want to do an analyze so we could compare with someone who doesn't have the clipping, that would be great. It would be good to know if there are 'good' copies floating around.

If you are able, rip the song with a good WAV ripper (exact audio copy is the best, www.exactaudiocopy.de), then open the wav in cool edit, and go to Analyze/statistics.

Thanks
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-04-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by placidium
it was a bad idea to put the guitar work up front..

Let's hope whoever made that decision hears how bad it was.
Old 05-04-2006, 02:54 PM   #185
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by placidium
it was a bad idea to put the guitar work up front..

Let's hope whoever made that decision hears how bad it was.
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Metlamaniac's Avatar Metlamaniac
05-04-2006, 04:19 PM
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Im really glad people are hearing this. I wanna go to bed and listen on headphones with the light off....but that clicking 'slightly' bothers me. Shame. I wonder if they will fix it
Old 05-04-2006, 04:19 PM   #186
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Im really glad people are hearing this. I wanna go to bed and listen on headphones with the light off....but that clicking 'slightly' bothers me. Shame. I wonder if they will fix it
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-04-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
the run of the mill recording and mixing on this album detracts from the already disappointing music.
It's incredible and incredibly disappointing but 100% accurate.
Old 05-04-2006, 05:21 PM   #187
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
the run of the mill recording and mixing on this album detracts from the already disappointing music.
It's incredible and incredibly disappointing but 100% accurate.
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GreenSmurf's Avatar GreenSmurf
05-04-2006, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlamaniac
Im really glad people are hearing this. I wanna go to bed and listen on headphones with the light off....but that clicking 'slightly' bothers me. Shame. I wonder if they will fix it
They should release a patch to fix the mixing errors. Popping, crackling, snapping, and static are annoying. I mean I'd buy the patch from Bestbuy or even pay out the ass online! JK.
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Old 05-04-2006, 05:43 PM   #188
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlamaniac
Im really glad people are hearing this. I wanna go to bed and listen on headphones with the light off....but that clicking 'slightly' bothers me. Shame. I wonder if they will fix it
They should release a patch to fix the mixing errors. Popping, crackling, snapping, and static are annoying. I mean I'd buy the patch from Bestbuy or even pay out the ass online! JK.
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Seven Deep's Avatar Seven Deep
05-04-2006, 05:46 PM
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The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
Old 05-04-2006, 05:46 PM   #189
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
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GreenSmurf's Avatar GreenSmurf
05-04-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
Ok, ok... I can not hear what you are saying because of the poor production quality on that post but I can read your lips and I agree that, "The problem isn't the stuff really poke(s) out." JK. I agree with you. I am just in an odd mood. Damn ex. Fuck off! Sorry. Heh.
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Old 05-04-2006, 05:51 PM   #190
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
Ok, ok... I can not hear what you are saying because of the poor production quality on that post but I can read your lips and I agree that, "The problem isn't the stuff really poke(s) out." JK. I agree with you. I am just in an odd mood. Damn ex. Fuck off! Sorry. Heh.
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evilprimeval
05-04-2006, 06:08 PM
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I've been listening to this CD on a great set of headphones with a decent tube amp and a pretty good player and have had no problems with clipping.
In addition I think it sounds excellent.
I've listened extensively to all of their CDs on this same setup and I have absolutely no problem (as a listener with very limited technical knowledge) with the way that this thing was put together.
Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 PM   #191
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

I've been listening to this CD on a great set of headphones with a decent tube amp and a pretty good player and have had no problems with clipping.
In addition I think it sounds excellent.
I've listened extensively to all of their CDs on this same setup and I have absolutely no problem (as a listener with very limited technical knowledge) with the way that this thing was put together.
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kungfool
05-04-2006, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
I agree. I think the album sound good, but it's SOOOO compressed, that nothing can ever jump out...it's all the same volume. Just open rosetta stoned in a .wav editor, then open The Grudge...like night and day.
Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 PM   #192
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Deep
The main problem I have isnt the clipping....it's that the album sounds just like everything else...ultra compressed and wobbling. There's none of that awesome headroom for the highs and the lower volume stuff to really poke out.
I agree. I think the album sound good, but it's SOOOO compressed, that nothing can ever jump out...it's all the same volume. Just open rosetta stoned in a .wav editor, then open The Grudge...like night and day.
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-04-2006, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
Listen to when the guitar kicks in at the begining of the pot, and tell me you can still hear justin's bass line. It's gone, all you can hear is guitar.!
Dannys drums are gone too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
"Rosetta Stoned" starts of good, but then half way through it becomes way to "Third Eye" and really has no climax. What's up with the riff at the end?!
A waste of 11 precious minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
What is adam playing? Guitar for Dummies?.
haha. Guitar Hero For Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
The first 4 songs are great, but then the album kind of takes a shit. The second half of the album is disappointing.
The good tracks are 1,2,4,6...........and 10
Old 05-04-2006, 09:24 PM   #193
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
Listen to when the guitar kicks in at the begining of the pot, and tell me you can still hear justin's bass line. It's gone, all you can hear is guitar.!
Dannys drums are gone too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
"Rosetta Stoned" starts of good, but then half way through it becomes way to "Third Eye" and really has no climax. What's up with the riff at the end?!
A waste of 11 precious minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
What is adam playing? Guitar for Dummies?.
haha. Guitar Hero For Dummies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el enveloper
The first 4 songs are great, but then the album kind of takes a shit. The second half of the album is disappointing.
The good tracks are 1,2,4,6...........and 10
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-05-2006, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elevate
I'll take Bottrill over Barresi any day.
Yeah, really smart decision to switch engineers.......
Old 05-05-2006, 01:23 PM   #194
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by elevate
I'll take Bottrill over Barresi any day.
Yeah, really smart decision to switch engineers.......
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-06-2006, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastman
I personally would have liked the drums up a bit. .
or a lot.
Old 05-06-2006, 03:01 AM   #195
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastman
I personally would have liked the drums up a bit. .
or a lot.
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PmF
05-06-2006, 03:04 AM
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I'd like to switch engineers, really. Baressi is for stoner rock. Heard last QOTSA CD? That's how rock'n'roll is constructed. But not tool. 10,000 Days is lacking the air - yes, the air, more space. Everything sounds soooo compressed and put in a tiny claustrophobic room... in that case Wings For Marie production is not good since it had to be a huge "open" song and it sounds... blurry, closed, compressed?... I dunno. I just don't like the production.
Old 05-06-2006, 03:04 AM   #196
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

I'd like to switch engineers, really. Baressi is for stoner rock. Heard last QOTSA CD? That's how rock'n'roll is constructed. But not tool. 10,000 Days is lacking the air - yes, the air, more space. Everything sounds soooo compressed and put in a tiny claustrophobic room... in that case Wings For Marie production is not good since it had to be a huge "open" song and it sounds... blurry, closed, compressed?... I dunno. I just don't like the production.
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submachine's Avatar submachine
05-06-2006, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PmF
I'd like to switch engineers, really. Baressi is for stoner rock. Heard last QOTSA CD? That's how rock'n'roll is constructed. But not tool. 10,000 Days is lacking the air - yes, the air, more space. Everything sounds soooo compressed and put in a tiny claustrophobic room... in that case Wings For Marie production is not good since it had to be a huge "open" song and it sounds... blurry, closed, compressed?...

I dunno.
I think you DO know, since you explained it perfectly.
Old 05-06-2006, 11:22 PM   #197
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by PmF
I'd like to switch engineers, really. Baressi is for stoner rock. Heard last QOTSA CD? That's how rock'n'roll is constructed. But not tool. 10,000 Days is lacking the air - yes, the air, more space. Everything sounds soooo compressed and put in a tiny claustrophobic room... in that case Wings For Marie production is not good since it had to be a huge "open" song and it sounds... blurry, closed, compressed?...

I dunno.
I think you DO know, since you explained it perfectly.
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NeverTooLoud
05-07-2006, 12:31 AM
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People involved in this thread should include info on if they're professionals in the entertainment industry...most of the negative comments seem to be by people who don't know exactly why they dislike what they're hearing...this album is most certainly not "overcompressed" if we're talking about overall mixes...it is one of the most dynamic rock records to be released in years...danny's tones are far superior to anything else out there in the genre, both adam and justin have well defined and distinguishable tones, and maynard is, well, maynard...i'm not saying i'm the end all be all of what sounds good, but as someone who has built a career of making sure shit sounds good, this album is excelent...keep in mind that tool is the only credited producer of this album, although i do know that danny lohner helped along the way...chances are, if you ask the band, they'll tell you this is the closest match to what they heard in their heads before the first tracking session, compared to other albums.
Old 05-07-2006, 12:31 AM   #198
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

People involved in this thread should include info on if they're professionals in the entertainment industry...most of the negative comments seem to be by people who don't know exactly why they dislike what they're hearing...this album is most certainly not "overcompressed" if we're talking about overall mixes...it is one of the most dynamic rock records to be released in years...danny's tones are far superior to anything else out there in the genre, both adam and justin have well defined and distinguishable tones, and maynard is, well, maynard...i'm not saying i'm the end all be all of what sounds good, but as someone who has built a career of making sure shit sounds good, this album is excelent...keep in mind that tool is the only credited producer of this album, although i do know that danny lohner helped along the way...chances are, if you ask the band, they'll tell you this is the closest match to what they heard in their heads before the first tracking session, compared to other albums.
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NeverTooLoud
05-07-2006, 12:38 AM
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the peak distortion i had mentioned in this thread a day ago is most likely due to similar frequencies transients occurring at the same time...i really only notice it when tom fills and guitar riffs in a particular register happen together...doubtfull it was tracked w/ distortion, and doubtfull it was mixed w/ distortion, although it does resemble distortion obtained by overdriving a waves linmb plugin on the master fader of protools...in all likelyhood it was mastering, and without knowing what the process was for making this record, we're all only speculating.
Old 05-07-2006, 12:38 AM   #199
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

the peak distortion i had mentioned in this thread a day ago is most likely due to similar frequencies transients occurring at the same time...i really only notice it when tom fills and guitar riffs in a particular register happen together...doubtfull it was tracked w/ distortion, and doubtfull it was mixed w/ distortion, although it does resemble distortion obtained by overdriving a waves linmb plugin on the master fader of protools...in all likelyhood it was mastering, and without knowing what the process was for making this record, we're all only speculating.
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Seven Deep's Avatar Seven Deep
05-07-2006, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertooloud
People involved in this thread should include info on if they're professionals in the entertainment industry...most of the negative comments seem to be by people who don't know exactly why they dislike what they're hearing...this album is most certainly not "overcompressed" if we're talking about overall mixes...it is one of the most dynamic rock records to be released in years...danny's tones are far superior to anything else out there in the genre, both adam and justin have well defined and distinguishable tones, and maynard is, well, maynard...i'm not saying i'm the end all be all of what sounds good, but as someone who has built a career of making sure shit sounds good, this album is excelent...keep in mind that tool is the only credited producer of this album, although i do know that danny lohner helped along the way...chances are, if you ask the band, they'll tell you this is the closest match to what they heard in their heads before the first tracking session, compared to other albums.
For someone who wants more specific information, you're being pretty general in your praises.

Clarity is not the be all end all of a good sounding album. If it were, fusion jazz would be the best thing anyones ever heard. But it's not, because it sounds so damn sterile and disconnected.

I think what some of us were getting at is that this album lacks the bells and whistles. The small bits of reverb coming through when Danny catches a piece of the rim on a tom, or the dynamic disparity between parts. Everything is mixed so in your face, which is fine for certain styles of music, but on a rock band setting their own precedents with hidden sounds and a conscious bow to subtlety and giving people something new to hear each listen, it doesnt fit. You can literally hear the compressors pulling all the quiet sounds up to match everything else, so it comes out flat and unoriginal.

Last edited by Seven Deep; 05-07-2006 at 12:48 AM..
Old 05-07-2006, 12:40 AM   #200
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertooloud
People involved in this thread should include info on if they're professionals in the entertainment industry...most of the negative comments seem to be by people who don't know exactly why they dislike what they're hearing...this album is most certainly not "overcompressed" if we're talking about overall mixes...it is one of the most dynamic rock records to be released in years...danny's tones are far superior to anything else out there in the genre, both adam and justin have well defined and distinguishable tones, and maynard is, well, maynard...i'm not saying i'm the end all be all of what sounds good, but as someone who has built a career of making sure shit sounds good, this album is excelent...keep in mind that tool is the only credited producer of this album, although i do know that danny lohner helped along the way...chances are, if you ask the band, they'll tell you this is the closest match to what they heard in their heads before the first tracking session, compared to other albums.
For someone who wants more specific information, you're being pretty general in your praises.

Clarity is not the be all end all of a good sounding album. If it were, fusion jazz would be the best thing anyones ever heard. But it's not, because it sounds so damn sterile and disconnected.

I think what some of us were getting at is that this album lacks the bells and whistles. The small bits of reverb coming through when Danny catches a piece of the rim on a tom, or the dynamic disparity between parts. Everything is mixed so in your face, which is fine for certain styles of music, but on a rock band setting their own precedents with hidden sounds and a conscious bow to subtlety and giving people something new to hear each listen, it doesnt fit. You can literally hear the compressors pulling all the quiet sounds up to match everything else, so it comes out flat and unoriginal.

Last edited by Seven Deep; 05-07-2006 at 12:48 AM..
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