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05-02-2006, 11:33 PM
Well, the production quality does seem a bit rushed or unfinished. Guitars are loud, Maynard is quiet, drums seem to be overwhelmed but bass and guitar... I dunno. Just me I guess. I am not complaining though. It is still cool to listen to.
__________________
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05-02-2006, 11:33 PM
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#121
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Well, the production quality does seem a bit rushed or unfinished. Guitars are loud, Maynard is quiet, drums seem to be overwhelmed but bass and guitar... I dunno. Just me I guess. I am not complaining though. It is still cool to listen to.
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Wow, I have never read so much bitching about such a great sounding album. I think the album sounds fan-fucking-tastic as is. Some of the things you all say about the levels are true to an extent, but remember, it was MEANT to be that way. There were no mistakes on this album. If there were any mistakes in mixing it would NOT be released. Nobody messed up on anything, this is how Tool has presented their music to us like it or not. These guys are professionals. They all do this for a living, and make a damn good living at it. We would not be hearing this album the way we are if it were not intended to be that way.
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05-03-2006, 01:32 AM
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#122
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Level 1 - Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: TN
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Wow, I have never read so much bitching about such a great sounding album. I think the album sounds fan-fucking-tastic as is. Some of the things you all say about the levels are true to an extent, but remember, it was MEANT to be that way. There were no mistakes on this album. If there were any mistakes in mixing it would NOT be released. Nobody messed up on anything, this is how Tool has presented their music to us like it or not. These guys are professionals. They all do this for a living, and make a damn good living at it. We would not be hearing this album the way we are if it were not intended to be that way.
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05-03-2006, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by woody239
Wow, I have never read so much bitching about such a great sounding album. I think the album sounds fan-fucking-tastic as is. Some of the things you all say about the levels are true to an extent, but remember, it was MEANT to be that way. There were no mistakes on this album. If there were any mistakes in mixing it would NOT be released. Nobody messed up on anything, this is how Tool has presented their music to us like it or not. These guys are professionals. They all do this for a living, and make a damn good living at it. We would not be hearing this album the way we are if it were not intended to be that way.
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I agree but the popping kinda takes me outta the mood since I've noticed it. The levels are not too bad but I do not think they were only satisfactory.
__________________
"I'm not really a heavy smoker any more. I only get through two lighters a day now. "
-Bill Hicks
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05-03-2006, 01:39 AM
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#123
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
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Originally Posted by woody239
Wow, I have never read so much bitching about such a great sounding album. I think the album sounds fan-fucking-tastic as is. Some of the things you all say about the levels are true to an extent, but remember, it was MEANT to be that way. There were no mistakes on this album. If there were any mistakes in mixing it would NOT be released. Nobody messed up on anything, this is how Tool has presented their music to us like it or not. These guys are professionals. They all do this for a living, and make a damn good living at it. We would not be hearing this album the way we are if it were not intended to be that way.
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I agree but the popping kinda takes me outta the mood since I've noticed it. The levels are not too bad but I do not think they were only satisfactory.
__________________
"I'm not really a heavy smoker any more. I only get through two lighters a day now. "
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05-03-2006, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Elgyn
Agreed, the quality of the leak isn't that much different to the quality of the CD. Danny's drumming is great, but it's too soft... I was hoping the drums would have a higher volume in the CD version than the leak, but it's not really the case. Hopefully I'll get used to it.
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Get used to missing the backbone of TooL?
I won't.
Just have to keep playing Ticks, Hooker, etc for another 5 years until the next CD.
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05-03-2006, 01:49 AM
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#124
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On Probation
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,020
Bincount™: 163
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Re: 10K Days; Too much guitar, not enough drums
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Originally Posted by Elgyn
Agreed, the quality of the leak isn't that much different to the quality of the CD. Danny's drumming is great, but it's too soft... I was hoping the drums would have a higher volume in the CD version than the leak, but it's not really the case. Hopefully I'll get used to it.
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Get used to missing the backbone of TooL?
I won't.
Just have to keep playing Ticks, Hooker, etc for another 5 years until the next CD. |
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It does seem rather weird.
"Hey guys, we've got one of the best rock drummers on the planet right now... and our guitarist is kinda average. I know, we'll mix Adam right to the front!"
How the hell did that one fly?
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05-03-2006, 01:56 AM
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#125
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
It does seem rather weird.
"Hey guys, we've got one of the best rock drummers on the planet right now... and our guitarist is kinda average. I know, we'll mix Adam right to the front!"
How the hell did that one fly?
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Well, I suppose denying the obvious is a rather easy way to win a debate! Taking the traditional logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, let's try Kabir's thoughts on the matter eh?
"All we have heard about guitars being more out in front and vocals a little subdued has been accurate. Guitar is the dominant sound through much of the record, but this is only when it is in full force; the record does get quiet quite often, and all four players are definitely playing an equal role."
http://toolshed.down.net/news/tales/...prereview.html
So I suppose that I'm not imagining things.
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05-03-2006, 02:08 AM
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#126
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Well, I suppose denying the obvious is a rather easy way to win a debate! Taking the traditional logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, let's try Kabir's thoughts on the matter eh?
"All we have heard about guitars being more out in front and vocals a little subdued has been accurate. Guitar is the dominant sound through much of the record, but this is only when it is in full force; the record does get quiet quite often, and all four players are definitely playing an equal role."
http://toolshed.down.net/news/tales/...prereview.html
So I suppose that I'm not imagining things. |
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I am now a fan of Hella. Those are intensly fast triplets on a single bass. Jesus a beginner couldnt do that with double bass. Im being onvious again... i think Adam got a little cocky with his guitar on this album. It would be cool if Danny used his electronic drums to run the band melodically, then AJ would feel stupid. lol Im only serious about the first part of that last sentence there.
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05-03-2006, 02:18 AM
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#127
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Las Vegas
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
I am now a fan of Hella. Those are intensly fast triplets on a single bass. Jesus a beginner couldnt do that with double bass. Im being onvious again... i think Adam got a little cocky with his guitar on this album. It would be cool if Danny used his electronic drums to run the band melodically, then AJ would feel stupid. lol Im only serious about the first part of that last sentence there.
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"So Kabir is God?"
Not in the slightest, that's why I prefaced the quote by pointing out that an appeal to authority was a clear logical fallacy.
But the first part of the quote: "All we have heard about guitars being more out in front and vocals a little subdued has been accurate."
Does that not suggest to you that the band or their publicity people have, before anybody had heard the record, been talking about having the guitars more out in front? That would kind of suggest that what I'm hearing would appear to be what the band intended me to hear, no?
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05-03-2006, 02:37 AM
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#128
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
"So Kabir is God?"
Not in the slightest, that's why I prefaced the quote by pointing out that an appeal to authority was a clear logical fallacy.
But the first part of the quote: "All we have heard about guitars being more out in front and vocals a little subdued has been accurate."
Does that not suggest to you that the band or their publicity people have, before anybody had heard the record, been talking about having the guitars more out in front? That would kind of suggest that what I'm hearing would appear to be what the band intended me to hear, no?
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05-03-2006, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tDoXoMl
I am now a fan of Hella. Those are intensly fast triplets on a single bass. Jesus a beginner couldnt do that with double bass. Im being onvious again... i think Adam got a little cocky with his guitar on this album. It would be cool if Danny used his electronic drums to run the band melodically, then AJ would feel stupid. lol Im only serious about the first part of that last sentence there.
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Hella? Do you mean Hell hammer?
regardless, both hellhammer and danny carey use double pedals.
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ANOTHER DEAD HERO.
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05-03-2006, 02:40 AM
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#129
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,128
Bincount™: 155
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tDoXoMl
I am now a fan of Hella. Those are intensly fast triplets on a single bass. Jesus a beginner couldnt do that with double bass. Im being onvious again... i think Adam got a little cocky with his guitar on this album. It would be cool if Danny used his electronic drums to run the band melodically, then AJ would feel stupid. lol Im only serious about the first part of that last sentence there.
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Hella? Do you mean Hell hammer?
regardless, both hellhammer and danny carey use double pedals.
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No, Hella are a two-piece band consisting of a drummer and guitarist. Their drummer, Zach Hill, is an absolutely terrifying single-pedal chops-monster. Their music is an acquired taste, but it's basically some kind of chaotic prog-indie-punk-metal or something.
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05-03-2006, 02:41 AM
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#130
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
No, Hella are a two-piece band consisting of a drummer and guitarist. Their drummer, Zach Hill, is an absolutely terrifying single-pedal chops-monster. Their music is an acquired taste, but it's basically some kind of chaotic prog-indie-punk-metal or something.
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Quote:
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The difference with Lateralus is (not with Aenima) is that on Lateralus the drums where upfront. On 10,000 Days they are on par with the rest.
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Yeah, but on Aenima there were stronger, more assertive vocal performances and better guitar riffs to play with. Considering how many of the guitar riffs on 10kd seem to be minor modifications of earlier Tool riffs I think it would have served the band better to bury Adam a bit, crank Justin and Danny and tell Maynard to grow his balls back after spending too long with those wussy APC goth girly-boys. But that's just me.
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05-03-2006, 02:44 AM
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#131
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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The difference with Lateralus is (not with Aenima) is that on Lateralus the drums where upfront. On 10,000 Days they are on par with the rest.
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Yeah, but on Aenima there were stronger, more assertive vocal performances and better guitar riffs to play with. Considering how many of the guitar riffs on 10kd seem to be minor modifications of earlier Tool riffs I think it would have served the band better to bury Adam a bit, crank Justin and Danny and tell Maynard to grow his balls back after spending too long with those wussy APC goth girly-boys. But that's just me. |
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05-03-2006, 04:23 AM
Im glad others are hearing this. I had huge problems with my bands CD. I heard lots of crackling and popping, and it REALLY fucked me off. I thought I was going Insane when I heard it on a Tool album....but it really is there. Lateralus has absolutely no popping at all.
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05-03-2006, 04:23 AM
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#132
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
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Re: Clipping
Im glad others are hearing this. I had huge problems with my bands CD. I heard lots of crackling and popping, and it REALLY fucked me off. I thought I was going Insane when I heard it on a Tool album....but it really is there. Lateralus has absolutely no popping at all.
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05-03-2006, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dolophane
I haven't been saying "more Danny" - I've been saying "less Adam." :D
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Since adam is trying to match the drums with his "DA! DA! DA!" riffs, less adam would bring out Dannys drum beats.
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05-03-2006, 04:39 AM
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#133
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On Probation
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,020
Bincount™: 163
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Re: 10K Days; Too much guitar, not enough drums
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Originally Posted by Dolophane
I haven't been saying "more Danny" - I've been saying "less Adam." :D
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Since adam is trying to match the drums with his "DA! DA! DA!" riffs, less adam would bring out Dannys drum beats. |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by unfnknblvbl
it's definately not due to "extremely high compression" either; as you'd know if you'd looked at the music in a wave editor.
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Elaborate. If the compression is high and with somewhat low sensitivity it does not have time to compress a wavform in time to prevent clipping. Screenshots of wav?
I am mostly hearing it on agressive drum sequences.
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05-03-2006, 04:54 AM
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#134
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
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Re: Clipping
Quote:
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Originally Posted by unfnknblvbl
it's definately not due to "extremely high compression" either; as you'd know if you'd looked at the music in a wave editor.
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Elaborate. If the compression is high and with somewhat low sensitivity it does not have time to compress a wavform in time to prevent clipping. Screenshots of wav?
I am mostly hearing it on agressive drum sequences. |
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05-03-2006, 05:17 AM
the 'popping and distortion' you call it are just the very sharp tones of the guitar distortion because they are mixed way more up front. first i thought i heard the same on 'wings part 2' but that was the rain drops coming down :D
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05-03-2006, 05:17 AM
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#135
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
the 'popping and distortion' you call it are just the very sharp tones of the guitar distortion because they are mixed way more up front. first i thought i heard the same on 'wings part 2' but that was the rain drops coming down :D
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I was waiting for these posts. I heard it on the rip and hoped it was part of that, but it's on the real album. It's all over the first couple of minutes of Vicarious, and in a lot of spots throughout the album (Wings, Rosetta, etc.).
I was very dissappointed in this, but overall it's pretty minor. But it is definitely digital clipping. Same as on the last Mars Volta album, Frances the Mute, but not near as extreme.
Oh well, I guess nothing's perfect, but I would expect better from tool (the damn DVD's they released are also full of the same clicking in certain spots).
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05-03-2006, 05:34 AM
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#136
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: STL
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Re: Clipping
I was waiting for these posts. I heard it on the rip and hoped it was part of that, but it's on the real album. It's all over the first couple of minutes of Vicarious, and in a lot of spots throughout the album (Wings, Rosetta, etc.).
I was very dissappointed in this, but overall it's pretty minor. But it is definitely digital clipping. Same as on the last Mars Volta album, Frances the Mute, but not near as extreme.
Oh well, I guess nothing's perfect, but I would expect better from tool (the damn DVD's they released are also full of the same clicking in certain spots).
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05-03-2006, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by McRoggles
I have no clipping on the album.
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me neither.
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05-03-2006, 06:13 AM
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#137
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Clipping
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Originally Posted by McRoggles
I have no clipping on the album.
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me neither. |
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I believe the correct answer is:
I *hear* no clipping on the album. It's there, whether or not you hear it.
I hear it on my Klipsch RF-3II's through an HK 525 receiver, I hear it in my car on my Focal 1.65V's through my JL amps and Eclipse head unit, and I hear it on my Grado SR80 cans. It's there.
And since it's there on the rip, the FLAC rip I downloaded 2 days before release and the actual album I bought at Target, I have to deduce that it's in the mix.
After looking at the wavforms, and how ridiculously compressed they are, I can say that it's no big surprise. Just dissappointed because this is a Tool record.
Overall though, the sound quality is great, it's just the spots with the clipping that bring it down a notch.
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05-03-2006, 06:19 AM
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#138
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: STL
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
I believe the correct answer is:
I *hear* no clipping on the album. It's there, whether or not you hear it.
I hear it on my Klipsch RF-3II's through an HK 525 receiver, I hear it in my car on my Focal 1.65V's through my JL amps and Eclipse head unit, and I hear it on my Grado SR80 cans. It's there.
And since it's there on the rip, the FLAC rip I downloaded 2 days before release and the actual album I bought at Target, I have to deduce that it's in the mix.
After looking at the wavforms, and how ridiculously compressed they are, I can say that it's no big surprise. Just dissappointed because this is a Tool record.
Overall though, the sound quality is great, it's just the spots with the clipping that bring it down a notch.
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05-03-2006, 06:25 AM
Nah, it isn't.
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05-03-2006, 06:25 AM
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#139
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Nah, it isn't.
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Brilliant retort douchebag.
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05-03-2006, 06:30 AM
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#140
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: STL
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Brilliant retort douchebag.
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05-03-2006, 06:31 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Brilliant retort douchebag.
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Amazing
__________________
RIP SEJEFF. APRIL 2006 - APRIL 2006
ANOTHER DEAD HERO.
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05-03-2006, 06:31 AM
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#141
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,128
Bincount™: 155
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Brilliant retort douchebag.
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Amazing
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RIP SEJEFF. APRIL 2006 - APRIL 2006
ANOTHER DEAD HERO.
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05-03-2006, 06:32 AM
Stop looking for perfection. Get some good speakers. Enjoy the music.
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05-03-2006, 06:32 AM
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#142
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Stop looking for perfection. Get some good speakers. Enjoy the music.
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05-03-2006, 06:34 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by blafuckbla
Enjoy the music.
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...wha?
__________________
I'll heal your wounds, I'll set you free, I'm Jesus Christ on Ecstasy.
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05-03-2006, 06:34 AM
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#143
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MO
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by blafuckbla
Enjoy the music.
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...wha?
__________________
I'll heal your wounds, I'll set you free, I'm Jesus Christ on Ecstasy.
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Hey, all I was doing was pointing out that there is clipping, I didn't say I wasn't enjoying it.
Anyway, 'get some good speakers' is what you need to do...a good speaker will replicate exacly what is going on in the source. If you can't hear the clipping then:
a. Your speakers arent' reproducing it.
or
b. You aren't listening.
So I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one. Go listen to it on your Sonys. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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05-03-2006, 06:37 AM
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#144
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: STL
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Hey, all I was doing was pointing out that there is clipping, I didn't say I wasn't enjoying it.
Anyway, 'get some good speakers' is what you need to do...a good speaker will replicate exacly what is going on in the source. If you can't hear the clipping then:
a. Your speakers arent' reproducing it.
or
b. You aren't listening.
So I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one. Go listen to it on your Sonys. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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05-03-2006, 06:40 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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It truly is. Overanalyzing isn't. Go play outside.
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05-03-2006, 06:40 AM
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#145
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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It truly is. Overanalyzing isn't. Go play outside. |
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Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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05-03-2006, 06:44 AM
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#146
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: STL
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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05-03-2006, 07:03 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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behhhhhh....:)
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05-03-2006, 07:03 AM
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#147
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: blaland
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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behhhhhh....:) |
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05-03-2006, 07:11 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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There will always be people who act and think as such no matter where in this world you travel. Amplified a bit here, but, nevertheless, there are still some good people with good thoughts. Me not being one of them.
__________________
I'll heal your wounds, I'll set you free, I'm Jesus Christ on Ecstasy.
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05-03-2006, 07:11 AM
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#148
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MO
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kungfool
Wow, man....I guess you put me in my place. I came here because I found some people who I though were discussing issues with the album and I get terse idiotic replies from lobotomized turds spouting tool dogma to 'put me in my place'.
Flame away sheep.
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There will always be people who act and think as such no matter where in this world you travel. Amplified a bit here, but, nevertheless, there are still some good people with good thoughts. Me not being one of them.
__________________
I'll heal your wounds, I'll set you free, I'm Jesus Christ on Ecstasy.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by submachine
Much of 10000 Days sounds like a guitar training session, the riffs are mixed WAY too loud over the drum (beat).
The songs should have built around the best drummer in the world: Danny Carey, instead of recycling endless guitar riffs.
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Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together.
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05-03-2006, 07:25 AM
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#149
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: here
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
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Originally Posted by submachine
Much of 10000 Days sounds like a guitar training session, the riffs are mixed WAY too loud over the drum (beat).
The songs should have built around the best drummer in the world: Danny Carey, instead of recycling endless guitar riffs.
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Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together. |
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"Overanalyzing isn't"
Holy crap, did I actually read that on a Tool fan forum?
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05-03-2006, 11:41 AM
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#150
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
"Overanalyzing isn't"
Holy crap, did I actually read that on a Tool fan forum?
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05-03-2006, 11:50 AM
I am a drummer.. and love danny carey.. but he isnt the best drummer in the world...
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05-03-2006, 11:50 AM
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#151
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Banned.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: OMARION
Posts: 1,194
Bincount™: 4396
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
I am a drummer.. and love danny carey.. but he isnt the best drummer in the world...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake
Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together.
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Perhaps the mixing is fine if you like a lot of guitar overpowering everything else, but if you really cant hear that, then I cant help you. Really, I cant. Because it's so obvious that the guitars are the focal point. But you dont make an instrument a focal point by just turning up the volume fader. It seems that you are taking offense that any one member would want to stand out, and that's not what we are saying. We're saying that the guitar is just too loud.
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05-03-2006, 11:53 AM
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#152
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake
Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together.
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Perhaps the mixing is fine if you like a lot of guitar overpowering everything else, but if you really cant hear that, then I cant help you. Really, I cant. Because it's so obvious that the guitars are the focal point. But you dont make an instrument a focal point by just turning up the volume fader. It seems that you are taking offense that any one member would want to stand out, and that's not what we are saying. We're saying that the guitar is just too loud. |
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Quote:
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I am a drummer.. and love danny carey.. but he isnt the best drummer in the world...
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Damn straight. He's *one of* the best, but nowhere near an all-around best. Vinnie Colaiuta certainly comes a lot closer to that, the man could sight-read the hardest stuff Frank Zappa could come up with while still eating his lunch, and yet he can still play amazingly tasteful stuff on pop albums... or play on a Megadeth CD.
The same goes for Justin. Nowhere near the best bassist in the world. And Les Claypool? You've got to be nuts. He's a lot of clever-sounding tricks assembled into one teenage-bassist-impressing package. There's a reason you're not seeing him all over thousands of album credits, and that's because he's an absolute one-trick pony. I love his stuff, but he's not even close to hundreds of other bassists out there.
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05-03-2006, 12:06 PM
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#153
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
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I am a drummer.. and love danny carey.. but he isnt the best drummer in the world...
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Damn straight. He's *one of* the best, but nowhere near an all-around best. Vinnie Colaiuta certainly comes a lot closer to that, the man could sight-read the hardest stuff Frank Zappa could come up with while still eating his lunch, and yet he can still play amazingly tasteful stuff on pop albums... or play on a Megadeth CD.
The same goes for Justin. Nowhere near the best bassist in the world. And Les Claypool? You've got to be nuts. He's a lot of clever-sounding tricks assembled into one teenage-bassist-impressing package. There's a reason you're not seeing him all over thousands of album credits, and that's because he's an absolute one-trick pony. I love his stuff, but he's not even close to hundreds of other bassists out there. |
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Lol at Claypool being referred to as a trickster. Never seen Primus live, I presume.
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05-03-2006, 12:09 PM
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#154
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Lol at Claypool being referred to as a trickster. Never seen Primus live, I presume.
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As an audio engineer myself, and long time fan of Tool, I must say that the mixes on this album are great...The production is great...The performances are great...However, something that almost ruins the listening experience is the mastering...I've noticed a trend on newer rock albums and was hoping 10k days wouldn't follow that trend...On a few songs, I wont mention which nor at what time so that you won't hear it every time you listen to the album, like I do, there is peak distortion...With the dynamics of a band like Tool, I can only imagine how hard it is to master such an album, but what I hear is a blatant oversight...One that if I were given the privlige to master a true work of art like a Tool album, I would definitly make sure wouldn't appear on the final product.
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05-03-2006, 12:47 PM
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#155
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vegas
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
As an audio engineer myself, and long time fan of Tool, I must say that the mixes on this album are great...The production is great...The performances are great...However, something that almost ruins the listening experience is the mastering...I've noticed a trend on newer rock albums and was hoping 10k days wouldn't follow that trend...On a few songs, I wont mention which nor at what time so that you won't hear it every time you listen to the album, like I do, there is peak distortion...With the dynamics of a band like Tool, I can only imagine how hard it is to master such an album, but what I hear is a blatant oversight...One that if I were given the privlige to master a true work of art like a Tool album, I would definitly make sure wouldn't appear on the final product.
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05-03-2006, 12:51 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake
Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together.
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wouldn't Vic Wooten be closer to best bassist?
__________________
I don't mind
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05-03-2006, 12:51 PM
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#156
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake
Go listen to Rush if you want the drummer to be focus of the album.
There are four (4) extremely talented members in this band. Anyone who plays the bass knows that Justin is probably the best basist in music right now(maybe surpassed by Claypool but what has he come out with lately?) and he's constantly improving.
Really though, the mixing is fine. You can hear all member equally, which is how it should be. No single member makes this band, only all of them together.
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wouldn't Vic Wooten be closer to best bassist?
__________________
I don't mind
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05-03-2006, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by drkrdglo
Funny thing you say that! I just pumped $200 into UE Super.fi 5 Pro Canal-phones (after my dog ate my Shure E2Cs) and expected to really break them in with this album. After listening to half the album I was extremely upset with my purchase. I thought the crossover in the phones threw off the lower-mids, thus cancelling out some of the drums. I then put on Lateralus and a few APC songs to find that it wasn't my earphones at all, but the mixing of the album itself.
If not only to be dissapointed that the drums are mixed too low, the vocals are mixed equally low! MJK's voice is crystal clear in every other Tool album, even on the songs where they are instrument driven - ie. Ticks and Leeches. I'm sure when they play the songs live it'll be a totally different dynamic, but for an album that's set in stone the levels on this album are extremely dissapointing. I'd almost go so far as to say it sounds like an excellent bootleg!
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I guess 5 years of preparation and planning wasn't enough.
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05-03-2006, 01:12 PM
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#157
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On Probation
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,020
Bincount™: 163
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Re: 10K Days; Too much guitar, not enough drums
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Originally Posted by drkrdglo
Funny thing you say that! I just pumped $200 into UE Super.fi 5 Pro Canal-phones (after my dog ate my Shure E2Cs) and expected to really break them in with this album. After listening to half the album I was extremely upset with my purchase. I thought the crossover in the phones threw off the lower-mids, thus cancelling out some of the drums. I then put on Lateralus and a few APC songs to find that it wasn't my earphones at all, but the mixing of the album itself.
If not only to be dissapointed that the drums are mixed too low, the vocals are mixed equally low! MJK's voice is crystal clear in every other Tool album, even on the songs where they are instrument driven - ie. Ticks and Leeches. I'm sure when they play the songs live it'll be a totally different dynamic, but for an album that's set in stone the levels on this album are extremely dissapointing. I'd almost go so far as to say it sounds like an excellent bootleg!
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I guess 5 years of preparation and planning wasn't enough. |
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05-03-2006, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard
I am not the first with this complaint; some of the heavier ( drumming ) sections have slight amounts of distortion. Its really annoying especially when the album is otherwise impecably recorded and arranged.
Music aside, I am still partial to the recording and compression of AEnima..
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How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment".
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05-03-2006, 04:27 PM
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#158
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On Probation
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,020
Bincount™: 163
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard
I am not the first with this complaint; some of the heavier ( drumming ) sections have slight amounts of distortion. Its really annoying especially when the album is otherwise impecably recorded and arranged.
Music aside, I am still partial to the recording and compression of AEnima..
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How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment". |
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05-03-2006, 04:31 PM
Its seems like they wanted it to "snap crackle and pop." They are TOOL and they are just trying to sell Rice Krispies while making music dammit!
Joking aside, it does take from some moments but I have noticed its only when using headphones or listening quietly on my uber stereo but in my car or other stereos or even just with the volume up its sounds great!
__________________
"I'm not really a heavy smoker any more. I only get through two lighters a day now. "
-Bill Hicks
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05-03-2006, 04:31 PM
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#159
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix
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Re: Mixing/Production issues with 10,000 Days
Its seems like they wanted it to "snap crackle and pop." They are TOOL and they are just trying to sell Rice Krispies while making music dammit!
Joking aside, it does take from some moments but I have noticed its only when using headphones or listening quietly on my uber stereo but in my car or other stereos or even just with the volume up its sounds great!
__________________
"I'm not really a heavy smoker any more. I only get through two lighters a day now. "
-Bill Hicks
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by submachine
How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment".
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In all fairness, there are certain trends dominant in mastering these days which are likely at least partially responsible for the sound of 10k Days. The whole over-compressed, maximum-volumizer type of sound is very much the thing, and Tool aren't alone in being stung with it.
Here's an article on the subject in relation to Rush and Vapor Trails:
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C
But that's not really an excuse, given the extremely tight ship Tool normally run when it comes to presenting their stuff. They bucked current trends at the time back in 1996 with the sound on Aenima and it was one of the best decisions they ever made.
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05-03-2006, 04:33 PM
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#160
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: new zealand
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Re: Regarding Sound and Recording Quality
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Originally Posted by submachine
How a 10 year old CD can sound better, higher quality, better mixing, than one just released is just incredibly lazy, either that or someone let adam "experiment".
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In all fairness, there are certain trends dominant in mastering these days which are likely at least partially responsible for the sound of 10k Days. The whole over-compressed, maximum-volumizer type of sound is very much the thing, and Tool aren't alone in being stung with it.
Here's an article on the subject in relation to Rush and Vapor Trails:
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C
But that's not really an excuse, given the extremely tight ship Tool normally run when it comes to presenting their stuff. They bucked current trends at the time back in 1996 with the sound on Aenima and it was one of the best decisions they ever made. |
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