i'm as with iota as he is with me (it's HE right?).

i got the idea that the reference to 'judas' was more about the hypocrites spewing sympathy than about judas himself.

it IS way... i shouldn't be but i'm shaking my head. i see no reasonable explanation for it to be wave. apart from someone mentioning 'the rivers overrun'. even thats just a grab a straws. there's no V sound. way makes sense in conext and on its own...
no doubt in my mind, you can't even put doubt there. if maynard were to come over to my place (not unusual) and say "look man i see what shit you've been spreading at TDN and its gotta stop, the line is "high as a wave" end of story". then i'd smack him for being a liar and kick him outta my mansion and go back to the beautiful girls waiting in my ferarri shaped spa and suck cocaine out of the 17 year old pussies.

who wants to join me?

I'm going to put a big sign on the roof of my house that reads;

F-U STEEDUS!

Then you can check it out on google earth. To make sure I spelled it correctly.

But, nothing but the [?] of judas,
Who could deny you were the one who would have made it,


I think it's But enough about the collective judas. Who could deny you were the one who illuminated.

i agree with you 100%
i at first thought it was "you're the one who really needed your little piece of the divine"

but it sounds more like illuminated and makes enough sense more than 'really needed' for me to be convinced

does anybody like dodecahedrons as much as i do? these things are incredible.
i have one made out of chicken but i can't bring myself to eat it

[QUOTE=Godin;....

I speculated that MJK might be working with casting a version of the hero myth within his lyrics for this album because other popular recording artists have apparently been doing it, each in their own ways. These other recording artists have casted the listener as a savior-type figure who needs to overcome their obstacles in life... and these artists have been carrying on this lyrical theme consistently throughout many of their albums.. so, I guess I began considering that MJK was incorporating this theme into his lyrics as well... just in a very original way.

.......

I no longer really care to look much further into this possibility. It's far-fetched in the particular case of Tool. If anything, with this album they are CRITICIZING how certain other artists have taken on the role of sympathizers by incorporating this "you, the listener, are the hero" theme into their lyrics.


All of these artists, and probably many more, continually offer sympathy in their lyrics that are meant to cast the listener of their music in the hero role within their own lives, which then is meant to have a positive emotional affect on that listener if they take the music to heart. :-\

MJK might be saying with the overall message of this album, "hey, if you think you're being cast as the 'chosen one' from this album, then you must be into some serious deadhead chemistry. I threw you a psychological curveball, mofo!".

-Godin[/QUOTE]




Everything written here is so true. I'm glad someone took the time (Godin's the shiznit) to type such a detailed explanation of pop culture artists. This theme goes across the board in entertainment, movies, novels, etc.
In fact, this is part of what seperates bad artists and decent ones, (in my humble opinion) and the decent from the great. The ability to step out of the box is something Tool and few other artists can be proud of.
The way these 'hero' structured stories apeal to "target audiences" is just like organized religion today.
But, (dun dun dun...) with the obvious risk of being labeled a deadhead, I still feel that, this jacked-up world dun labled our saviour crazy. Rather than, this psyco thinks he's the 'chosen one'.
...we just gonna forget the persicution of our last spiritual advisor. Yeah, that guy was 'labled' too. This time around "Rome" has won. Evolution (and subsequent spiritual revolution) has been thwarted.

Now, don't get me wrong. I take (and serv) everything with a grain of salt, but I'm also VERY impatient/distressed/enraged/petrified... about the current state of mind/being of the human race. Especially, the 'powers that be', our 'rome'.

Steedus: you made a dodecahedron out of chicken? how the fuck? eat it, or else it spoils.

and yes, i am a HE. youd rather id be a SHE? please dont tell me that you can guess im a she by the way i write. actually, that would be a compliment. haha

and yeah, wave is not it!

Dodecahedrons?

dodecahedron: one of the 5 regular solids. it has 12 faces, hence its name. now picture a chicken one...

everytime i find an example of a dodecahedron it appears to have 12 faces yes, but every face is usually a pentagon.
any thoughts as to why they're always expressed as pentagonal dodecahedrons?

surely you could have a hexagonal dodecahedron? i'm no mathematician or anything but... i figure it would be possible to have a dodecahedron with faces that have more than 5 edges and it still be called a dodecahedron.
even in your example there iota it's pentagonal.

my chickenecahedron was deciduous by the way.

oh sorry i meant delicious, i don't think chickenecahedrons could possibly be diciduous

if all faces are to be congruent, then pentagons is the only way to go... but there are many other possibilities with non-congruent faces... i should imagine.

was your chickenecahedron stuffed? if so, with what?

by congruent do you mean having the same leangth and same angles?
i'd love to make another chickenecahedron with incongruent side. maybe with faces consisting of the ammount of edges a normale chickenecahedron has. how many would that be? something squared no doubt.

so you're up with maths? cause i ain't, i find it all very interesting and always did well in it at school and had an easy time grasping most concepts, never went anywhere with it though.

oh and course, for anyone who's wondering, the song 10,000 Days has a LOT to do with maths... and chickens.
i mean, everything can be explained by mathematics right? this song has all kinds of math involved. relevent math and no less. and chickens

the amount of faces depends on the amount of sides each face has, and the internal angles as well... im up with math, who isnt? you are up with math: you know what a dodeca- i mean, a chickenecahedron is.

id like to know more about 10000 and how that is up with maths...

yeah these tool fuckers love math, fiibonacci, sacred geometry etc. i wonder what other mathematical adventures there are to be had in tool music.
i think rosetta stoned might involve a lot of math.
there's certainly some mathematical rhythmic stuff goin on in that song.

oh i was just making that shit up about 10,000 days the song have anything to do with maths and chickens. i mean i'm sure it does but i don't know how, i just wanted it to seem as though the conversation we're having is relevent to this particular thread.
i mean it'd just be boring to have it somewhere else.
apart from in bed maybe. that'd be interesting.

10,000 days is a looooong time... i haven't even been alive that long. and i struggle with ONE day most days. and i don't even have any crippling physical illnesses!
apart from the Magnimus-Obliviophalicitus.
but then if i had that i wouldn't know i had it now would i people? huh? huuuuuhh?

i also really like chocolate milk.

youre crazy. in a good way.

in this part:
"high is the way but our eyes are upon the ground.
you were the light and the way that they'll only read about
i only pray heaven knows when to lift you out
xkg's in the fire is long enough, you're goin home"

how many voices can you hear singing? i hear 3.

i applaud your use of the E in You're, yet i lament the lack of an apostrophe.
i'm just gunna assume you knew it was MEANT to be there but were simply too lazy to hit the ' key. makes me feel better that way

what time is it in your corner of the kitchen?

im a lazy bastard. see? it happened again with the first word of this post....



right now, its time for bed.

iota out.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but if not, I stumbled over this today.

Should be..

flip·pant

adjective

Definition:
not taking something seriously enough: showing a lack of seriousness that is thought inappropriate


Definitly sounds to be what he's saying, and the definition matches up with the context perfectly. What do you guys think? Or did I not read through enough of the thread and this has been discussed and agreed upon, however the lyrics page just hasn't been updated to reflect it.

yeah, but flippants is an adjective. it would be wrongly used within the sentence.

Anyone consider he may be saying "Phlebians"? As in Phlebas the Phoenician (or Philebus according to Plato).

Phlebas was Christ-like figure who dies by drowning to save the life of the Fisher King. From T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land":

"Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,
Forgot the cry of the gulls and the deep sea swell
And the profit and the loss
A current under sea
Picked his bones in whispers. As he rose and fell
He passed the stages of his age and youth
Entering the whirlpool.
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you."

In the poem, although Phlebus dies a Christ-like death, his was the death of a mere mortal. The "profit and loss" in his life no longer matters, nor does anything of this world matter for him. Eliot is saying that we're all persuing our own vain interests, and ultimately we'll all die, much as Phlebus did.

How does this relate to 10,000 days? Not sure. But maybe he's referring to them as "Phlebians" because they're mortals who are, in the end, persuing their own interests within their religious/spiritual life, never really accomplishing much. They're "spewing sympathy" because it seems like the right thing to do, not because of a genuine change she brought into their lives. They missed the point, they missed the message of her life, and, in order to not to seem "out-Christianed" are trying to sound sympathetic. But in the end, they're still mortal, unlike God's Angel Judith Marie, who will soon be getting her wings.

Could be wrong though.

Phlebian (phlebian) can also mean without substance or meaningless.

flippant is an adjective

flippants is a noun

orange (adj) - oranges (n)
square (adj) - squares (n)
chocolate (adj) - chocolates (n)

So again...what do you guys think? IMHO, it makes the most sense of any words proposed. Aside from that, just listen to it and determine how much of a match the sound is.

*pokes paraflux* what ya think bro?

Ignorant flippants in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't see.

flippants (n): people not taking something seriously enough: showing a lack of seriousness that is thought inappropriate

holy shit, youre right.

Whether it's flippants or fibbers or whatever, the main point surely is that he is mocking the people in attendance.

sure...but for correctness of the lyrics :) thats the point of this thread

Also, I think flippants is a better word to use for a few reasons. It makes most people take out a dictionary and realize `oh damn that fits the context perfectly'. You also learn an interesting new word. That is, if you do look it up - assuming you don't already know of this word; I know I sure as hell have never heard of it.

Personally, I love expanding my vocabulary through song/literature.

I sure as hell thought it was "ignorant 'flippers' in the..."
as in a lip-bitten "fuckers"...

"flippants" is a much translation though, by far... hoorah topside:

Feedback please, let me know what you all think :)

you know i've been in a few 'discussions' about the lyrics in this song and i'd like to suggest that Flippants is not even a word AT ALL!
you can't pluralise an adjective to make it a noun... can anyone possibly even suggest another word where this is the case? i'll be happy to accept being wrong if someone can prove me so.

but until then, flippants AIN'T a real word.

(iota, apostrohpe's please!)

Peace out.

obviously having been in a lot of discussions about the lyrics in this song means nothing. so don't bring it up.

i have looked up this fantasy word 'flippants' and www.dictionary.com agrees with me.
as do a handful of actual dictionaries. like physical ones.

anybody else?

oh and since i forgot to mention it...

those examples you used to illuminte the conversion of Adjective to Noun,
you've forgotten that those words are NOUNS too.
flippant is not a noun is it? adjective.

orange =noun and adjective (although i believe using orange as an Adj is incorrect)
square = noun
chocolate = noun.

flippant does not equal noun.
you've just pluralised other words and put them in as adjectives, which they are, but you pluralised them as nouns not adjectives, you can't do that sooooooo
flippants A Word Is Not

anyone?

= praise me, praise me mahfuckaz!!!

*lol*

I've been through this before, so I'm just gonna say it once.

"Flippant" is an adjective, never a noun. "Flippants" isn't even a word. The only nouns related to the adjective "flippant" are "flippancy" or "flippantness".

Adding an "s" doesn't turn an adjective into a noun. It turns a singular noun into a plural noun, though the examples above (orange, square, chocolate) are all words that can be either an adjective or a singular noun. "Flippant" is different to these precisely because it is an adjective, but cannot be a singular noun. "Flippants" would only be a noun if "flippant" could also be a noun, which it cannot.

"Flippant" has been suggested before (and rejected before), but there is a reason why it hasn't been suggested by anyone who was familiar with this word before hearing this song.

Excellent points Steedus and spacemonkeyadb. I agree 100%.

You're right. Flippant seems to only be an adjective and doesn't have a related noun 'flippants'.

This explains why it's not a valid lyric :) Thanks for explaining.

Not at all - I stumbled upon the lyric from the artists comments on the following painting "Wings for Marie" by Alex Cherry

http://duggmirror.com/design/Want_to..._illustration/

I looked up the word `flippant` and was interested if this was actually the word used.

Either way I learned a cool new word and found a great artist.

I am holding a Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary, Unabridged Second Edition, copywrite 1970, RIGHT NOW.
In which it states,
"flip'pant, n. a person given to flippancy. [Rare.] "

In the song "fl..." is clearly vocalized. Pick your poison A) flippers B) flippants


Mahfuckaz

Thnx to spacemonkey. The more you use "always" and "never" to explain the english language. The more skeptical I become about your knowledge of it. This time it pushed me to search myself.

It seems Alex Cherry got it right. Curious...did he consult "The Man" befor releasing said art...???

"You are the light and the WAVE, they'll only WAVE aboWAVE wave wave wave ...

no wave

Wow - so it is flippant.

Maynard sure can pull some obscure and rare yet perfect words for his lyrics.

I also doubt Alex came up with it origionally...either way his art is excellent. I also do not think he consulted anyone such as "The Man" before releasing any of his work =P

He stated he is highly influenced by Tool & TMV & NIN amongst others. It really shows.

Word... I couldn't believe it either. Nice artwork.
I doubted, also that he could've gotten inside scoop on the words. I just had to ask anyway.

Rare indeed. So rare that this may be the only dictionary in existence that recognizes "flippant" as a noun. (If I assume you're not just making this up).
The correct usage of grammar is determined by its actual use by those who speak the language. And I have yet to witness for myself any dictionary entry or any actual usage of "flippant" that would justify treating it as a noun.

LOL at this coming from the person who insisted on "squander the ability to lift indite at heaven" for Right In Two, and tried to defend it as poetic licence!

'Flippers' or 'Fibbers' remain infinitely more likely than "Flippants".

no, no, no

its fli'pp'ant's

holy shit, dude, you got like, 0 bincount. gnarly.

I say that this line makes "poetic" sense. Even if not gramaically correct.