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Old 11-09-2005, 11:38 AM   #1
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In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

I don't like thinking this way because I don't think the new album will be very Undertowish.

Before the new album comes out, I hope to be in love with Lateralus to the extent of love I am currently in with Undertow.

<3 Undertow currently more than all other Tool albums.

thoughts?
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:42 AM   #2
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by killershears
I don't like thinking this way because I don't think the new album will be very Undertowish.

Before the new album comes out, I hope to be in love with Lateralus to the extent of love I am currently in with Undertow.

<3 Undertow currently more than all other Tool albums.

thoughts?
well. you got interesting tastes for a 14 year old....
is undertow underrated ?
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:53 AM   #3
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

I like undertow as well, but not as much as Aenima or Lateralus because it just doesn't have the same...flow? All of the songs sound good together and you can play them over and over without skipping tracks. I think to love lateralus you have to enjoy the cd as a whole, just not as individual tracks.
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:54 AM   #4
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Undertow has almost always been my favorite Tool album.
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:58 AM   #5
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by killershears
In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums
I would agree that it is better in many aspects, but not entirely. The vocals are much better on Aenima and the flow is better on Lateralus, like Snot said.
It's my fav as well.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:00 PM   #6
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

*restrains himself*
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:02 PM   #7
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

how about posting something related to the thread?
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:03 PM   #8
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

That's what I restrained myself from doing.


edit: I almost went on a big rant about the objectivity of music and the stupidity of this thread's title, but I prevented myself from doing so.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:04 PM   #9
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Undertow is a great album...but i think Ænema and Lateralus are wayl better just because they are so intriguing and so much work involved compared to Undertow and opiate
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:06 PM   #10
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
That's what I restrained myself from doing.


edit: I almost went on a big rant about the objectivity of music and the stupidity of this thread's title, but I prevented myself from doing so.
thank god for that.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:10 PM   #11
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

i've liked undertow progressively better over the years. it's definitely their rawest album. it's not unquestionable that it may be their best.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:14 PM   #12
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by magdalena_jane
thank god for that.
Seriously. You're all very welcome.

I decided it was just easier to let this guy go on thinking that the fact that he likes undertow more than the other album makes it better than the other albums. Any attempt to explain the fallacy of that way of thinking would probably fail, so I'll just leave it alone.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:21 PM   #13
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by killershears
I don't like thinking this way because I don't think the new album will be very Undertowish.

Before the new album comes out, I hope to be in love with Lateralus to the extent of love I am currently in with Undertow.

<3 Undertow currently more than all other Tool albums.

thoughts?
You are correct sir. Undertow is their most basic, visceral album, without all the (sorry to say it) prog rock excesses that started creeping in on AEnima and became fully ensconced on Lateralus. I don't think AEnima or Lateralus are bad albums, it's just that they are too self-concious and attempt to keep the listener too far away from a real expression of feeling; rather, they get lost in details.

Time will likely prove Undertow to be their most remembered contribution by fans.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:30 PM   #14
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

If the new album was similar to undertow, it would be the best album ever.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:35 PM   #15
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
I decided it was just easier to let this guy go on thinking that the fact that he likes undertow more than the other album makes it better than the other albums.
You do realize that "A is better than B" is, by its very nature, a subjective statement ... right? He also preempted the entire statement with, "In my opinion ...".

Even then, if he were to simply stand up and say, "Undertow is better than Lateralus," it's still a subjective statement.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:38 PM   #16
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffel
If the new album was similar to undertow, it would be the best album ever.
Except that everyone would complain about it sounding like Undertow.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:39 PM   #17
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
You do realize that "A is better than B" is, by its very nature, a subjective statement ... right? He also preempted the entire statement with, "In my opinion ...".

Even then, if he were to simply stand up and say, "Undertow is better than Lateralus," it's still a subjective statement.
You're going to piss a lot of people off, egging me on like that.
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:39 PM   #18
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Shit adds up on the new albuuuuuuuum!
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:41 PM   #19
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Now that I think about it, Undertow does to seem more raw and complete
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:45 PM   #20
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

great album, seems like they didnt take 5 years to write an reord it. has a more edgey raw feel to it, straight rock.. not really the prog style people call them now. def a great album. but i personally like aenima an lateralus more.. not sure which one i like more.. bth amazing albums imo
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:46 PM   #21
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Here's how it goes: 1. Lat, 2. Aen, 3. Und, 4. Opi

It just keeps getting better, so I have good reason to believe that "Loscov" will be even better! (You do know that the upcoming album will be entiteled "Loscov", don't you? Thought so.)
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Old 11-09-2005, 12:46 PM   #22
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Henry Rollins saying "I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain" drops this album way down on my list.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:08 PM   #23
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
You do realize that "A is better than B" is, by its very nature, a subjective statement ... right? He also preempted the entire statement with, "In my opinion ...".
*sigh* I tried. It's no use.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:11 PM   #24
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

if the new album mixes elements of undertow and lateralus it will be nothing less than extrodinary
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:15 PM   #25
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

They are all different and fucking great in their own right. What people forget is that these album's are made over quite a long period of time, things change in the musical direction of bands year by year - this albulm is bound to have elements from all other tool releases, but be different in its own way.

And yes, Undertow kicks ass, but so does Aenima and Lateralus and Opiate for that matter...
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:16 PM   #26
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

ya i bought undertow after i had listened to lat and aenima for a couple years and i must say its grown quite a bit on me.... i like maynards voice much better in the later albums tho
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:18 PM   #27
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
Henry Rollins saying "I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain" drops this album way down on my list.
That is a good reason. Now shut the fuck up.

Read your posts, realize what a douchebag you sound like.

For the record, my opinion on which album is the best changes all the time.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:22 PM   #28
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubbard
For the record, my opinion on which album is the best changes all the time.
I'd rather sound like a douchebag than an idiot.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:29 PM   #29
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

As opposed to having to explain myself all over again...

Just read the first few pages of this thread. I think I explain myself pretty well there.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:50 PM   #30
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
You're going to piss a lot of people off, egging me on like that.
I'm not egging you on. I'm stating the obvious.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:54 PM   #31
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

I don't understand whats wrong with a person starting a discussion by saying "in my opinion, undertow is the best tool album". You might not agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion. Some people really have their heads up their asses on these forums.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:01 PM   #32
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
You do realize that "A is better than B" is, by its very nature, a subjective statement ... right?
The Royals are a better baseball team than the Yankees.

Oh wait, no they're not.


Nice try, though.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:02 PM   #33
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire
I don't understand whats wrong with a person starting a discussion by saying "in my opinion, undertow is the best tool album". You might not agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion. Some people really have their heads up their asses on these forums.
The problem is that their personal opinion has no bearing on whether or not the album is better or worse than any other album. Read the thread I linked to, it should help a bit.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:07 PM   #34
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

I never listen to Undertow now.Listened to it some when it came out.I'm not that up on straight ahead rock,so I think it's terrible.I like a few songs on it okay,but as too listening to the whole thing,probably won't ever happen again.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:08 PM   #35
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
The problem is that their personal opinion has no bearing on whether or not the album is better or worse than any other album.

...so? He wants to discuss that he likes undertow more than any other album. Art is in itself subjective, there is no real way to say anything is better than anything else. Its all about what the audience thinks. This member of the audience enjoys undertow, so whats the problem? Its not like he is definitively stating "undertow is the greatest tool album".
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:09 PM   #36
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
The Royals are a better baseball team than the Yankees.

Oh wait, no they're not.
There's an objective measure to that statement. You can compare a list of computed statistics and prove, one way or the other, that one is in fact better or worse than the other.

Musical taste, however, is quite subjective by its very nature. It's like saying "Stairway to Heaven" is a better song than "Bohemian Rhapsody." You can argue the merits (and faults) of both songs, but you just can't measure the factor of subjective taste.

And that taste, in this context, is exactly what decides which song (or album) is better than the other. It's abstract and immeasurable. Therefore, the declaration that, "Undertow is better than Lateralus," is, by its very nature, a subjective one, even if the, "In my opinion," disclaimer weren't attached.

Quote:
Nice try, though.
You're arguing just to argue.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:10 PM   #37
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
The problem is that their personal opinion has no bearing on whether or not the album is better or worse than any other album. Read the thread I linked to, it should help a bit.
You're trying to apply scientific measurement to something that, quite simply, can't be scientifically measured.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:12 PM   #38
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire
Art is in itself subjective
This is the problem right here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire
This member of the audience enjoys undertow, so whats the problem?
That's not a problem at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire
Its not like he is definitively stating "undertow is the greatest tool album".
That's how what he said came across to me. Did you notice the > in the title? Yeah.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:14 PM   #39
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcPheezy
That's how what he said came across to me. Did you notice the > in the title? Yeah.
did you notice the fucking IN MY CURRENT OPINION part of the title? Yeah.
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Old 11-09-2005, 02:15 PM   #40
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Re: In my current opinion, Undertow > All other Tool albums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
Musical taste, however, is quite subjective by its very nature.
Yes, but musical quality is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
And that taste, in this context, is exactly what decides which song (or album) is better than the other.
The fact that you don't understand the objective aspects of music doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
It's abstract and immeasurable. Therefore, the declaration that, "Undertow is better than Lateralus," is, by its very nature, a subjective one
I understand that, because of your ignorance of music's objective aspects, you feel that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Brightwell
You're arguing just to argue.
If I wewre arguing just to argue, I would have only done it once. This is actually an issue that I find very, very interesting and that I enjoy discussing. It's a very important issue to me, and so I'm attempting to discuss it with others.
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