Okay I think i just would like to take the time here to sum up the craziest shit we have just seen with the new album...the thing that has driven so many Tool fans crazy. You all know what I'm talking about, the subject has only appeared in just about every thread. We all know one thing about the Tool band, which is that they are just so damn creative and we can never expect anything from them because we will be proved boldly wrong. It goes farther than creative --lots of bands are creative -- but this one is special because it's creativity to the max. It's like "we have no boundaries," we are free to be mutated by the universe and reach for "the random or whatever will be bewilder me." It's like this crazy spiritual element of the band that is the thing that really makes them good, and the lyrics dictate this.

SO, it is so unbelievable what the latest unexpectancy has turned out to be. The biggest thing about the new album is, take a guess...RELIGION. 50 percent of Tool fans are bewildered (thankfully, I am not one of them) by this. "The band that was so cool because they were antireligious and articulate about it has now become believers in the very thing they were against!" these fans say. Personally, I have can recall Lateralus having a lot of Jewish and Buddhist references, but I can agree that for the most part Tool could not give any religion its time of day. The latest update is: Tool realizes that the spiritual element of its music is found in the very religions it spoke against.

So here we have it folks, the big shock of the new album that has made many Tool fans declare that they aren't into the band anymore. The band has shocked us all once again with Maynard singing to "Father" and speaking in Christian terms. Respond as you like, just please no one write in and say "oh, just because he says Father and uses 20 thousand religious terms, it doesn't mean he's into religion" because dude, i think we are past the point of debating this. It's pro-religious, Maynard definintely has a heightened interest and belief in Christianity, and Tool has just shocked us all again. Does it hurt for the bewildered? Does it sting? That's just what they wanted.

And I'd like to say a little something to all the people who don't like Tool anymore because they are into Catholicism on this album. Are there a lot of people being brainwashed by religious ideas? Absolutely. But on the whole, what is going on? The greater effect of religions is not all the crap that has been associated with it and should really be associated with political figures instead. The deaths, the brainwashing, etc, etc. The greatest effect of religious practice in general is spritual enlightenment. I've gotten past this and I think you all should too. When you look at the glass half empty, you will see the negatives, and perhaps that would Tool did initially. But when you look half full, you will see the true beauty.

So once again, when you look at 10,000 days, make sure you see the word "religion" kind of flash over it, or picture it with a little religious aura. I'll never know what the believe, other than the fact that I must think laterally, and try all sides before coming to a decision. I think the band has taught me well.

Lateralus was spiritual, 10,000 Days is religious.

Lateralus >>>>>> 10,000 Days, but it has nothing to do with religion.

I really don't care if maynard sings about anger, love, hate, fear, compassion, spirituality, religion, or KFC secret recipe, as long as it SOUNDS GOOD, which is the most important part of music over ANYTHING.

10,000 Days (with the exception of WfM/10,000 Days) doesn't sound as good as their other albums....case closed.

Thank you Jesus.

well put

*Graps his gospel collection, and floats away.

Christianity has inspired more brilliant music than anything else. I have no concerns about Tool becoming religious. They are only human, and it´s natral for human´s beliefs to change, often dramatically. I bet there are a million bands out there who have religious beliefs but are too afraid to let people know in case they lose fans, and I am glad Tool is not one of them.

I am fed up with people categorically saying that 10,000 Days is worse than the other albums. Even though many people agree with you, it is still an opinion, so the case is by no means ´closed´.

Oh, I forgot to say ´great post´ to phatfela1.

Great post, very well put. Thankyou.

While personally it wouldnt bother me if 10k days was religious, i just honestly dont beleive it really is. It quite clearly has religious referances, but i dont beleive the album is sending a pro religious message. It certainly aint baggin it as previous albums have, but i think what some percieve as pro religious is more just another brand of metaphor. Such as in 'right in two'. I beleive the whole father and angel thing is just a way of expressing the point, creating the image, not so much as to literally say 'god created the world, and your being ungratefull in your greedy atempts to hoard it too yourself'. But as rather to use religion as a vehcil for the message that most people know, understand, or can relate too. Now in my opinion, this does represent a strong turn around from what was pretty much just religion bashing at times, to a point where they seem rather neutral about it... but i dont see it as pro-religion. IMO Its not like they are sending any religious messages or something..

yeah.. it seem to me, its a spiritual man, talking about his religious mother....
Maybe its from her point of view... or maybe some of her core values have rubbed off.

Regardless... IT ROCKS. ...and Rosetta Stoned is my new gospel. :-/

I believe in this bands creativity and its provocation of thought. by that i mean that any mention of religion, whether pro or con (which there have been niether), is just to ruffle the delicate feathers of all the fans that Freak out about it. Its weak minded in my opinion to twist the message of this band to fit your beliefs and maynard and company know that and have fun with it. ....it obviously works.

With the possible exception of the song Opiate (which is what, 14 years old now?), when has Tool ever written an anti-religious song? I can't think of a single example.

The album is not pro or anti religion. None of the albums are pro or anti religion. "Religion" covers a huge spectrum of different ideas and philosophies, some of which the band promote and some of which they are firmly against. I think that's the source of a lot of this confusion. Even the song Opiate was about a very specific type of religious follower, and the use of positive imagery and energy to corrupt and use people.

10,000 Days doesn't contradict a damn thing from the past. At most Tool have cautioned against religion, as people have a tendency to turn off their minds once they have a dogma to make their decisions for them. That doesn't mean people can't be inspired by the words of Christ or Buddha.

People were just making a bunch of silly assumptions before this album came out about the bands' beliefs.

you people are fuckin retarded. the same people that think he's christian now thought he was a satanist a few years ago.

Hmmm... Is it pro-religious? Lets start with the first obvious reference:

Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days. "I love you Mom, you are an angel. Make sure you let your God know that if you happen to see him." I don't see that as either acknowledging or refusing religion. It is also neither pro nor anti religion (although there are expressions of being anti the people who use organized religion unwholesomely).

Next, Right in Two. "God gave us free will, why are we all squandering this ability?"
That sounds like acceptance of Christianity at first glance, but really it is only acknowledging that this Chritian idea of free will is a possibility. Of course free will is not exclusive to Christianity, but the Christian references are obvious in this context. Maynard has used various idealogical viewpoints as a starting ground for many lyrics in the past. Not necessarily to exclaim that he is a part of said movement, but to find a suitable framework from which to convey his emotional and intellectual expression. This use of Christianity and its imagery is no different in my view. He is not expressing praise or disdain for Christianity here, just taking an idea from it (which he may indeed agree with) and using it as a backdrop for his more blantant message: "Stop fucking fighting!"

In his previous work with Tool, the ideas stemmed more often from Jung or sacred geometry. I think the reason why Maynard has found himself using Christianity here is rooted in his Mother's death. This of course led him to write Wings and I think the thought processes that were involved in that piece may have led him to write Right in Two.

This isn't pro-religious, just involving religion - which I don't find at all shocking.

Yes he has shown a heightened interest in Christianity, but only from the perspective that is revealed to us. We are presented with some songs every few years. How is that supposed to tell us what the absolute scope of someone's interests have been in that time? I imagine that Maynard has been thinking deeply about Chrisanity for much of his life - he was raised as one of course. However, in these songs there is no direct and obviously personal praise or anything else which shows a certain sense of belief.

Are they? I would have thought that if Maynard was going for a specific denomination here it would be Baptist. As for the other guys in the band, while this has been called the devil's music, it really is impossible to tell someone's belief system by hearing their note choices.

PS, If you want to hear some more Christian references by Maynard, check out the Puscifer song Revelation 22:20. Yes, I am sure he reads the Bible (at least for research), but Christ is used as a character, not as an object of worship. In this song, as in several others, Maynard worships a woman. A very sexy woman.

OMG!!!! Tool is like the greatest Christian rock band ever!!!!!!

Nah, they just stole everything from Project 86

You make a good point. However, Opiate isn't anti-religion. It's anti-organized religion. It's bashing the blind faith of the masses who follow what they believe to be a largely corrupt church's dogma just to be saved without even realizing what they are following.

That's how I receive it, at least.

And the case is NOT closed on 10Kdays not holding up to their past work. Seriously, to people who are so adamant about making this such a certainty, it is their minds that are, in fact, closed to the fact that there are many others who feel differently

I think I agree. It's the closest Tool has to an anti-religious song, though. I'd like to know what evidence from Tool's catalogue people have for labelling them "anti religion".

there are some seriously stupid people in this thread.

when Maynard says "fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, tell them their pillar of faith has ascended" and then demands to god that he give his mother her wings, there has never been a Tool song that has been soo strong in its stance against a belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent god that knows all people and all things in its creation.

It is a massive insult to all sects of Christianity to assume their god doesn't know that an individual it created has died and gone to heaven and it is a massive insult to all sects of christianity that a human being demand something of god.

Maynard knows exactly what he is saying in this song, while he acknowledges that his mother believed in a god and that while a god probably did create this planet, the message he delivers more subtely then ever before is more offensive to christains and more contradictory to christian dogma than when in opiate he said "jesus christ why dont you come save my life, blind me with your light/lies".

Because Wings/10,000 days is soo not pro-religous, the album cannot be pro-religous.

It's probably not a good idea to start a post by calling other people stupid, and then follow it up with THIS.

He does no such thing. The lyric is, "You're the only one who can hold your head up high, and shake your fist at the gate saying, 'I've come home now. Fetch me . . .'" etc.

At the end of the song, he admits that what he's offering is a "bold suggestion". But he makes it to her anyway, so convinced as he is of his mother's piety.

Great way to introduce yourself to the forum, by the way. I don't think you know much of anything about anyone here.

You got that right. I didn't read the rest of your post so as not to spoil my impression of you.

Thanks everyone for writing in...obviously i didn't expect everyone to agree with me, i just wanted to point out that this really is the big todo about the new album. is it religious? is it not? you have all shown that this album is cause for much debate...and that is thanks to the genius work of the band.

When i used the term pro-religious for this album, people went nuts. Whatever you want to call it, the fact remains that he straight out calls to "Father" on Right In Two. On Wings for Marie, he believes that his mother has become an angel after her death. No, obviously he's not telling everyone to join a religion, if that's what you think i meant by pro-religious, but it's not metaphorical. The man is serious and he is singing these things that only someone who believed in some sort of Christianity would say.

People wrote in to say that the band was never anti-Christian, but I really must disagree. I think he has said enough quotes such as "The Bible is all fairy tales" and at concerts he would say "Who is here to worship Jesus? Well you came to the wrong place." I really do think they have changed their viewpoints, or at lease Maynard has, but what is wrong with that? How ungrowthful would it be if they were to strictly adhere to their beliefs at one point and time and never change them, for mere stubborness or "loyalty" to fans as one writer so elegantly pointed out.

Lastly, I took a class last semester of the Mystical Experience and it really changed my viewpoint. I found that it is possible to have a belief in more than one religion. So to calm all of you down, i doubt that Maynard is a devout follower, because that is indeed not what this album dictates. Does he believe in angels as according to the Christian belief? I'm sure of it. Does he believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as the trinity of divinity? Sure. Does he read the Bible? obviously. Does he pray and attend Church from time to time? Probably. But does he go to services every Sunday and does he celebrate Christmas and Ash Wednesday? Doubt it. Does he follow any religion RELIGIOUSLY? i doubt it.

There are many terms for divinity and in Christianity it is Father. Maynard may refer to God as Father, but he also may refer to god as the Light that he prays will lift him out as in the song Reflection. Other religions, such as Kabbalah, refer to the Light as the divine. I'm sure he is into more than one religion, and recently he has overcome his anger toward the religion he was forced into when he was a child, and sees that his mother, too, is only worshipping divinity. He has found that yes, Christianity works, and that the Bible is a sacred thing with divine tales.

I hope everyone can understand this very wise method of religious practice, of which I adhere to as well. The method is not to be tied down by one religion, but know that they all have much to offer in the way of describing the nature of spirituality and attaining it.

He's not a "Christian" so to speak, or at least I doubt that he is. but does he believe in Christianity? Sure does, the album definitely clarifies that, he couldn't make it any more clear. But when the next album comes out and he talks about "Allah", I bet people are going to go nuts and think he "converted" again. It's okay to be in to more than one religion, and take what you can from all of them. I hope you all can agree with me that Maynard is a religious man, but doesn't strictly adhere to any one particular religion.

I don't think Maynard believes in all these things, but is instead past trying to deny them because at this point he simply doesn't know. There are good things about religion. Positive moral messages that can help peoples' lives. Just because Maynard and Tool are willing to admit this, it doesn't mean that they're church-goers.

I'll never buy that he attends church. But whatever. I don't know Maynard. All I know is the message that the music presents.

great post

Wings and 10,000 Days are the only two songs that indirectly talks about religion in the album...It's mostly about his mother's death and how she deserves a piece of heaven since she served the God she believed in all her life (also talked about in the APC song Judith)

I get the feeling Maynard is more against the organization of the Catholic church and how it's become a way to make a profit and for important people to flex their muscles...Lateralus was a much more spiritual and 'religious' album, whereas 10,000 Days was just a demonstration of the band member's personal evolution during the Lateralus days by talking about relevant (and sometimes political) issues...I found this album to be much more straight forward than any of their other albums

We can all disagree about little things here and there, as long as we all agree that Tool is all about spreading the truth...Oh, and killer music too

<3 Armando

It is not the term itself that provokes me to respond, but the idea that you think you can come to a conclusion about the mindset of someone who you have never met. How can we really know his mind from the words he sings? We get a glimpse, sure, but there are so many diverse emotional and intellectual factors that go into writing a song, that there is no way to be sure of what we are interpreting.

Now, imagine if Maynard made one of two statments in an interview or on Toolband.

1. that he had actually "found Jesus". If so, then these songs would make sense.

or

2. he said he still had disdain for organized religion and all the middle men, but does find words of wisdom in the Bible - as he does in many other religions - then these songs would still make sense.

So, we can't conclude either way. However, those two statements have already been made by Maynard, just that the first was a joke and the second was not. With that knowledge then we could take a safe bet that his viewpoint hasn't really changed much at all.

....And there I go making a kind of conclusion about his mind. Well, we all do it, but I think that we should realise that we are merely projecting ourselves onto others when we do this. Either projecting our own views onto him or projecting what we wish we were.

You hit the nail on the head

<3 Armando

THIS ALBUM IS ABOUT HIS MOM. HIS MOM IS RELIGIOUS. THEREFORE THERE WILL BE RELIGIOUS IMAGERY. Tool are not becoming Christians. That is just ridiculous. Even if they did I would still listen to their music unless it started sounding like some typical sorry christian music. I think the belief in a christian god makes you play shitty music.

Religious people are funny.

Hmm, it still sounds like you're predominantly Christian and somehow hoping that Tool (Maynard especially) is gonna show up at your Jesus party.

wtf u talkin bout?
"shake your fist at the gate saying i've come home now" is further support of my earlier post. It implies that this god does not know one of its most devout followers has died and ascended to heaven and does not know how she lived her life following what she believed was his word.

And its a bold suggestion to meet your creator look him in the eye and tell him how you lived your life, to suggest that he doesnt already know everything.

Christains believe in one god that is omnipotent and omnipresent all-knowing and all-powerful so Maynards lyrics are a massive slap in the face to them. No doubt in my mind that Maynard is spiritual and belives in a god and a creator, but this is not the same image/god created and written down by these men with hidden agendas.

and about the first sentence in the original post. it was indeed a bold suggestion.

This album is far from Pro-Christian, in my opinion.
To say that it not debatable, as to this being anything but pro-religion, is almost as arrogant as it is ignorant. Your interpretations belong to you, don't assume yourself to be anything more than you are..........do not pretend you are some wise man whom holds the only key to the magical TOOLbox. We live in reality, and are all perfectly capable of forming our own opinions. The bottom line is that an opinion holds little weight over anything other than yourself.

On the other hand, I am proudly christian, and am in no way exalting the opinion of Maynard, just because I appreciate his artistic skill and vocal range. I do believe that the guy simply saw what the catholic religion was all about, and did not believe it was the life he wanted to lead. Most notably because of his inability to understand how his mother could worship a god whom he does not seem to care about her. He disagrees with the religion, but intensely disrespects religious people who fail to follow the path of the righteous for which they so boldly claim to be a part of. Those like his mother he can only hope that they are right, for the life they led is deserving of something better than what they have been through. He doesn't believe there is some heaven that they are bound to see, but he hopes there is, out of more or less, compassion.

It's only my opinion, but(neglecting my of christian beliefs) it is a message for which we likely all agree with.
If someone remains pure to there beliefs and does good for so many even though they see only tragedy in return, then even if I did not agree with that belief, I would not be able to condemn them for there actions. I would only wish the best for them.

That is where I believe the man we call May Nard J. is sitting..........
and of course, I'm probably if not partially, totally off on this one.

Mrnd = Gdo

HAHA!!

Oh brilliant call :)

'cuz jesus is comming' :P

This is pretty silly. I mean, I guess we can call pretty much damn near anything "religious" now because they happen to use references to help people understand their point. But whatever, call it what you like. I just dont think it's either fair or accurate to label this album any more than you did past ones.

MJK has never apposed the idea of spirituality and religion, just organized religion and all the greed, corruption, killing, and blind idiotic faith that surrounds it.

This album isn't pro religion at all IMO. It's actually kind of a mockery. WFM isn't a religous song, it's a message to his mother used in the context of her beliefs. It follows the same theme as APC's Judith by displaying his frustration with her beliefs without destroying her character. No Christian would ever 'shake their fists at the gate' or demand their wings. MJK is basically saying that everyone has a certain belief of where they're going when they die, WFM is a hopeful reassurance that his mother was true to herself and therefore should see heaven 'as she sees it'.

To look further, I don't think that someone who was Catholic or pro religion would be writing songs about alien invasions with details of our ending or even LSD for that matter. Not exactly a Catholic belief.

You can't deny the religious imagery and symbolism on this album, but to say that this album shows that Tool is religious or belongs to a certain religious group doesn't make any sense. Tool has used religious imagery since the beginning and in the same context as WFM; demanding.

i dont think its just a religious album... however, right in two does have some religious references

"dont these talking monkeys know that eden has enought to go around"

"angels on the sideline"

i dont think every religious reference has to be taken so seriously, i choose to interperet the music for myself.

Maynards Dick is, believe it or not, actually about the Hindu Gods.