This song could be interpreted into a myriad of ways, so here's one that I thought of. It's about soliders. People go on about being anti-war, yet they have the guilt of supporting the troops in the end hence the "I will not tolerate you, I will go down beside you, I must go down beside you, No one is innocent!"
And we always praise our soldiers as the good guys even if they killed innocent civilians or tortured and abused them. Hence, "veil of virtue hung to hide your method, while I smile and laugh and dance and sing your praise and glory. Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma, as I smile and laugh and dance and sing your glory."
"Our guilt, our blame, I've been far too sympathetic. Our blood, our fault, I've been far too sympathetic."- Even though we didn't kill these innocent lives, we vicariously tolerated them which is why the blood is on our hands too.
"I am not innocent, You're not innocent, No one is innocent!"- Despite my anti-war ramblings I am far from being innocent throughout this whole world conflict.
Thoughts?
__________________ ...star stuff contemplating star stuff... -Carl Sagan
Yeah, that fits nicely, particularly since lying, cheating and stealing are mentioned in the motto or oath for the army. I consider the song to be about standing up for yourself, so this is a particularly significant topic at the moment.
Why is the blood on my hands too? I'm not a soldier. I'll never choose to be a soldier. I will also not "support" troops if I had a choice, but, hey, because I pay tax, I guess I do support them in some way, so I won't say I'm innocent.
If I choose not to support them, that would not mean that I should not treat or not see soldiers as human beings. Things are not as black and white like that. It's very easy to lay the blame with them.
However, if these other people choose to be soldier, well it's their choice then to hurt/kill/rape/abuse other people. But if they choose to do this, they should also take responsibility for it. And maybe, just maybe, they should think a bit more about the consequences of becoming a soldier. Is this profession ethical? I believe not.
I once also read somewhere that about 50% of the soldiers, who end up in combat for the first time, are not able to actually aim at an so called "enemy" and actually consciously choose to pull the trigger.
__________________ Even as a solid rock is unshaken by the wind, so are the wise unshaken by praise or blame.
-Buddha
Why is the blood on my hands too? I'm not a soldier. I'll never choose to be a soldier. I will also not "support" troops if I had a choice, but, hey, because I pay tax, I guess I do support them in some way, so I won't say I'm innocent.
If I choose not to support them, that would not mean that I should not treat or not see soldiers as human beings. Things are not as black and white like that. It's very easy to lay the blame with them.
However, if these other people choose to be soldier, well it's their choice then to hurt/kill/rape/abuse other people. But if they choose to do this, they should also take responsibility for it. And maybe, just maybe, they should think a bit more about the consequences of becoming a soldier. Is this profession ethical? I believe not.
I once also read somewhere that about 50% of the soldiers, who end up in combat for the first time, are not able to actually aim at an so called "enemy" and actually consciously choose to pull the trigger.
I don't support them either. This was just my interpretation of the person who sits on the fence with an "anti-war" sign yet a "support the troops" yellow ribbon. I've seen those before on the same car so this is not made up.
__________________ ...star stuff contemplating star stuff... -Carl Sagan
Ok, I assumed you didn't. People like the one that you speak of are just being hypocrites. Well if you have a friend or family who is in the army, it would maybe seem very strange to them to be against the war, but the soldier should respect that you're against the war and you should only just wish them good luck and hope they don't have to kill people.
If I assume this song to be about soldiers, it also reminds me of the song "Dogs" by Pink Floyd. You should check it out (also the lyrics).
__________________ Even as a solid rock is unshaken by the wind, so are the wise unshaken by praise or blame.
-Buddha
Its very easy to be anti war and supportive of troops. One may not want a war but if circumstances call for one people might choose to support the people fighting for "their side". Im not in support for our troops to kill, pilliage, and rape, but i do support them in the since i dont want them all to die and for the entire thing to explode like a powder keg. We shouldnt be putting the troops down we should be putting the people who made our troops go over there. Now i am aware of the stigma that if the troops are over there and are killing they are just as responsible as the people who decided to go to war in the first place. I personally dont agree entirely although i can see where that idea is coming from. I dont think they are wrong for killing because its human instinct and when there is a dude gettting ready to shoot you its hard to stop and politly ask him to sit down so we can talk about it. Bottom line is we shouldnt be there, what we are doing as a society is wrong not just our soldiers, and that one can be against war but at the same time hoping our side doesnt amass large causualties. It seems as though if someone were a true anti-war advocate they would hope for the least amount of deaths. By supporting our troops to at least the extent of "I sure hope they dont die" would fit well within the bondaries of Anti-War advocates and supporting our troops.
__________________ Give from thine rations and you shall recieve my bounty.
You don't support our soldiers. But you enjoy the freedoms they provide.
I have a dream. A dream where all state and federal military and law enforcement no longer exist. A dream that is protected by bloggers, keyboards, Xboxes, and music CD's.
Life feeds on life and if those troops you don't support ceased to exist, I think you'd be singing a different tune when the next Hitler or the biggest guy in your neighborhood comes to take your video games and Tool CD's.
So there are no cops. I come to your house to kill your family and take your stuff. Who's gonna stop me? You? Wouldn't that make you a soldier? Say I did it to your friends down the street. Maybe your friend did something to provoke it. Are you gonna help him? Doesn't that make you a soldier?
And you do in fact support them because you pay taxes. What are you doing to influence where your tax money is spent? You're in the comfort of your home or office, the safety of which is provided by someone other than yourself, and you're complaining about things you have no idea about.
Sure, we've made plenty of mistakes politically, militarily, and otherwise and we continue to do so. NO ONE is innocent. Not even those that "don't support our troops."
WAKE UP
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
I support the troops. I don't support the "Iraqi War."
simply put: how is this done? easy. I like the people. I want them to be safe. I don't like the motives for war or the reasons these "people" are in it.
Seems like most people don't these days. The same people that drive in the left lane and do 10 miles over the speed limit until their cell phone rings. Then they drop to 10 miles under the speed limit and sandwhich your family between two Mack trucks (have you seen what happens when a recap comes off of one of these tires at 80 mph?). Then they get to work and proceed to blog about how stupid Bush is and how the politics in this country are so jacked up.
The fact is that most people in this country don't have a clue as to why we are fighting the war. Are ignorant to the facts of what lead us to our current struggle. They vicariously live through Fox News and CNN and then think they are experts on politics and foreign policy. Of course people don't support the war, because they don't understand it. All they know is what is presented to them by our media. A media whose main goal is to inflate violent stories for the sake of ratings and pofitability.
If you knew nothing of America except what you saw on the news, you would think that nothing happens here except murder, manslaughter, and strong armed robbery peppered with hate crimes and racial divides. Turn on the TV, sex, drugs, and death. Constant. Ratings. Profitablility.
That is all most know of the war in Iraq. 4000 of our troops have died. 99% are avoiding killing civilians at all costs. Our troops are fighting cowards. Cowards that hide behind the innocent and seek to kill all that don't believe in there point of view.
My father in-law is fighting in Iraq. My brother in-law is fighting in Iraq. Both will tell you that 90% of the Iraqi people want us there and all that you see in the media makes up for about 3% of what is actually going on over there.
We've lost approximately 4000 troops compared to over 50,000 listed on the Vietnam memorial. We are making a difference over there everyday. Our media shows us different and comfortable Americans buy it without question. I say, keep blogging and bitching and leave the protection of your freedom to do so in the hands of those that know what's going on. Be thankful that they will not only let you stay here afterwards, but won't kill you too when you cut them in line at the grocery store and cut them off in traffic.
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
This song could be interpreted into a myriad of ways, so here's one that I thought of. It's about soliders. People go on about being anti-war, yet they have the guilt of supporting the troops in the end hence the "I will not tolerate you, I will go down beside you, I must go down beside you, No one is innocent!"
And we always praise our soldiers as the good guys even if they killed innocent civilians or tortured and abused them. Hence, "veil of virtue hung to hide your method, while I smile and laugh and dance and sing your praise and glory. Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma, as I smile and laugh and dance and sing your glory."
"Our guilt, our blame, I've been far too sympathetic. Our blood, our fault, I've been far too sympathetic."- Even though we didn't kill these innocent lives, we vicariously tolerated them which is why the blood is on our hands too.
"I am not innocent, You're not innocent, No one is innocent!"- Despite my anti-war ramblings I am far from being innocent throughout this whole world conflict.
Thoughts?
I dig it. I'll give you my spin on your interpretation. What if the song is a soldiers view on our gov't?
I was actually going to start a thread on how I thought the song was about Jesus/Christianity. Your thoughts?
It would make sense.
Wasn't Maynard enrolled in some sort of military-like thing one point in his life?
This talk reminds me of a Muse song---Soldier's poem.
"Throw that all away
Let's lose ourselves
Cause there's no-one left for us to blame
It's a shame they're all dying
And do you think you deserve your freedom?
How could you send us so far away from home
When you know damn well that this is wrong
I would still lay down my life for you
And do you think you deserve your freedom?
No, I don't think you do
There's no justice in the world
There's no justice in the world
And there never was"
Makes you think, really.
THEY are fighting for YOUR freedom.
They don't deserve that.
YOU don't deserve that.
Of course, there are we who support our trooops.
We know some are knightly, we know some are drafted...
But in the end, sitting back and waiting because you don't want to risk your life...is appalling.
I know there are other people who care, and if they could, they would...
But if we looked through the perspective of those who would NEVER dare go...it's kind of irritating, really.
You serious? If so then your opinion counts for way more than the others. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Speaking as a NZer, I support the Iraq war, but I question the American Governments motives. Why engage in a billion dollar game of war? Surely not to liberate the people alone?
Speaking of which, i wish they'd hurry up and deal with the Zimbabwe situation. It's gone on for far too long. Bring out the assassins i say
Ft. Benning for basic, Ft. Gordon for training and then went back to Ft. Benning....never got the chance to go overseas and I was out before 9/11 happened
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
In the netherlands military duty was mandatory until '96. Me, i was one of the last to serve. I was stationed as a corporal-ranked medical labtech on a medical facility on a military base.
Maynard studied at West Point Prep School and was a Forward Observer in the Army. He declined an appointment at West Point knowing they would not tolerate his dissidence.
"You lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you?
I will not tolerate you."
I'm glad someone else thought the same thing, what do you guys think?
Maynard studied at West Point Prep School and was a Forward Observer in the Army. He declined an appointment at West Point knowing they would not tolerate his dissidence.
"You lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you?
I will not tolerate you."
I'm glad someone else thought the same thing, what do you guys think?
It's absolutely where those references came from...you are correct sir
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
