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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
09-19-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by The Embryo 2 View Post
I just drove 1500 miles up and down California and to say its depressing would be a major understatement.

On another note: New Puscifer!

I dig the artwork. Hopefully we can an Alien Abduction themed tour in 2021
Dang dude, that's tough to hear. Hope you and everyone on the West Coast are doing all right.

Love the album artwork. Gotta say though: don't love the high pitch-thing Maynard is doing on the first two songs they've released off this albums. I enjoyed The Underwhelming more than Apocalyptical.
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:44 PM   #7281
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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Originally Posted by The Embryo 2 View Post
I just drove 1500 miles up and down California and to say its depressing would be a major understatement.

On another note: New Puscifer!

I dig the artwork. Hopefully we can an Alien Abduction themed tour in 2021
Dang dude, that's tough to hear. Hope you and everyone on the West Coast are doing all right.

Love the album artwork. Gotta say though: don't love the high pitch-thing Maynard is doing on the first two songs they've released off this albums. I enjoyed The Underwhelming more than Apocalyptical.
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The Embryo 2's Avatar The Embryo 2
10-09-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
Dang dude, that's tough to hear. Hope you and everyone on the West Coast are doing all right.

Love the album artwork. Gotta say though: don't love the high pitch-thing Maynard is doing on the first two songs they've released off this albums. I enjoyed The Underwhelming more than Apocalyptical.
Yeah I'm not digging this style too much, especially after the last 2 Puscifer albums which I consider both to be masterpieces..

I see that MJK had Covid back in Feb (wasn't Tool on tour then???)

And ACDC going the FI route with a rechargeable light up deluxe version of their new album..

RiP EVH!
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Old 10-09-2020, 10:27 AM   #7282
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
Dang dude, that's tough to hear. Hope you and everyone on the West Coast are doing all right.

Love the album artwork. Gotta say though: don't love the high pitch-thing Maynard is doing on the first two songs they've released off this albums. I enjoyed The Underwhelming more than Apocalyptical.
Yeah I'm not digging this style too much, especially after the last 2 Puscifer albums which I consider both to be masterpieces..

I see that MJK had Covid back in Feb (wasn't Tool on tour then???)

And ACDC going the FI route with a rechargeable light up deluxe version of their new album..

RiP EVH!
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
10-09-2020, 06:35 PM
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Dang didn't realize it's been a month since the last comment.

Yea, hopefully MJK's lungs aren't permanently damaged. That's pretty scary. they were still finishing up the Australian leg, played the one US show before it all went to hell
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:35 PM   #7283
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Dang didn't realize it's been a month since the last comment.

Yea, hopefully MJK's lungs aren't permanently damaged. That's pretty scary. they were still finishing up the Australian leg, played the one US show before it all went to hell
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sonnyboy11's Avatar sonnyboy11
10-14-2020, 02:27 PM
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Just signed up for the Puscfifer livestream show on 10/30. Will be interesting to hear post-Covid Maynard. Hope he is close to fully recovered. The new album live in its entirety is a gutsy idea. Pretty stoked.

https://pusciferlive.com/
Old 10-14-2020, 02:27 PM   #7284
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Just signed up for the Puscfifer livestream show on 10/30. Will be interesting to hear post-Covid Maynard. Hope he is close to fully recovered. The new album live in its entirety is a gutsy idea. Pretty stoked.

https://pusciferlive.com/
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
10-14-2020, 06:10 PM
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i'm tossing around the idea of getting a ticket, it sounds cool but i don't know. i haven't done any of the virtual concerts yet, so i don't know really what to expect
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Old 10-14-2020, 06:10 PM   #7285
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Re: General Tool Discussion

i'm tossing around the idea of getting a ticket, it sounds cool but i don't know. i haven't done any of the virtual concerts yet, so i don't know really what to expect
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sonnyboy11's Avatar sonnyboy11
10-14-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
i'm tossing around the idea of getting a ticket, it sounds cool but i don't know. i haven't done any of the virtual concerts yet, so i don't know really what to expect
Not knowing what to expect is a good thing for me. Hoping for something unusual.
Old 10-14-2020, 09:06 PM   #7286
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
i'm tossing around the idea of getting a ticket, it sounds cool but i don't know. i haven't done any of the virtual concerts yet, so i don't know really what to expect
Not knowing what to expect is a good thing for me. Hoping for something unusual.
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
10-15-2020, 10:47 AM
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Maynard gets COVID>Maynard somewhat recovers>Maynard's other band puts out an album>TOOL fans call it garbage disco pop>TOOL fans ask if they can physically attend an all digital event>show up anyway and reinfect Maynard

It's the circle of liffffeeeeeeeee
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:47 AM   #7287
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Maynard gets COVID>Maynard somewhat recovers>Maynard's other band puts out an album>TOOL fans call it garbage disco pop>TOOL fans ask if they can physically attend an all digital event>show up anyway and reinfect Maynard

It's the circle of liffffeeeeeeeee
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jwb's Avatar jwb
10-15-2020, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
Maynard gets COVID>Maynard somewhat recovers>Maynard's other band puts out an album>TOOL fans call it garbage disco pop>TOOL fans ask if they can physically attend an all digital event>show up anyway and reinfect Maynard

It's the circle of liffffeeeeeeeee
Wait, aren’t all Pusifer records garbage disco pop? Fun for MJK to make, but hard to listen to?

Still waiting in queue at TM for hard tickets to the next Pusifer show...
Old 10-15-2020, 03:35 PM   #7288
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
Maynard gets COVID>Maynard somewhat recovers>Maynard's other band puts out an album>TOOL fans call it garbage disco pop>TOOL fans ask if they can physically attend an all digital event>show up anyway and reinfect Maynard

It's the circle of liffffeeeeeeeee
Wait, aren’t all Pusifer records garbage disco pop? Fun for MJK to make, but hard to listen to?

Still waiting in queue at TM for hard tickets to the next Pusifer show...
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
10-16-2020, 06:16 PM
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I think they've been decent, but admittedly, i'm not exactly excited about the sound of the new album. i'll still give it a go, i could be surprised!
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:16 PM   #7289
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I think they've been decent, but admittedly, i'm not exactly excited about the sound of the new album. i'll still give it a go, i could be surprised!
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swimminginmusic's Avatar swimminginmusic
10-26-2020, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyboy11 View Post
Just signed up for the Puscfifer livestream show on 10/30. Will be interesting to hear post-Covid Maynard. Hope he is close to fully recovered. The new album live in its entirety is a gutsy idea. Pretty stoked.

https://pusciferlive.com/
“Live” ... MJK did say it was all pre recorded at certain times of day for sunrise/set @ the venue.


I just fell in love with some of Puscifer’s work while driving through AZ. I get home and watch a Billie Eilish livestream event with my wife and was pretty impressed with it all. After working out all my “smart” TV streaming kinks on the BE show I was confident in spending on a paperview website.

I’m pretty excited to see what some of the most creative minds have put together (to cash in on) for a unique album-drop scenario.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:05 PM   #7290
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyboy11 View Post
Just signed up for the Puscfifer livestream show on 10/30. Will be interesting to hear post-Covid Maynard. Hope he is close to fully recovered. The new album live in its entirety is a gutsy idea. Pretty stoked.

https://pusciferlive.com/
“Live” ... MJK did say it was all pre recorded at certain times of day for sunrise/set @ the venue.


I just fell in love with some of Puscifer’s work while driving through AZ. I get home and watch a Billie Eilish livestream event with my wife and was pretty impressed with it all. After working out all my “smart” TV streaming kinks on the BE show I was confident in spending on a paperview website.

I’m pretty excited to see what some of the most creative minds have put together (to cash in on) for a unique album-drop scenario.
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lotus.'s Avatar lotus.
10-26-2020, 05:23 PM
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The album art for new Puscifer is out of this world
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:23 PM   #7291
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Re: General Tool Discussion

The album art for new Puscifer is out of this world
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The Embryo 2's Avatar The Embryo 2
10-27-2020, 06:10 PM
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Old 10-27-2020, 06:10 PM   #7292
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
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hellboy1975's Avatar hellboy1975
10-27-2020, 07:08 PM
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They've very careful not to brand it as a Tool instrumental, despite it kinda being that.
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:08 PM   #7293
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Re: General Tool Discussion

They've very careful not to brand it as a Tool instrumental, despite it kinda being that.
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
10-27-2020, 07:13 PM
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That was pretty awesome! The astronaut theme has been hitting them this year with Danny also releasing the Psychonauts shirt, probably just coincidence.

I've always been curious as to what the ornament on his headstock was and if it was cut-in or external, but now I know!
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:13 PM   #7294
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Re: General Tool Discussion

That was pretty awesome! The astronaut theme has been hitting them this year with Danny also releasing the Psychonauts shirt, probably just coincidence.

I've always been curious as to what the ornament on his headstock was and if it was cut-in or external, but now I know!
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lotus.'s Avatar lotus.
10-27-2020, 07:42 PM
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I like it!

Even though it's 3/4 Tool, it sounds different.

More?!!
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:42 PM   #7295
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I like it!

Even though it's 3/4 Tool, it sounds different.

More?!!
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swimminginmusic's Avatar swimminginmusic
11-01-2020, 08:49 AM
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I thought Puscifer’s performance was pretty cool. Makes me wonder if we’re not seeing the birth of new live formats. I could definitely see more musicians going this route and charging for different streaming Experience packages. Buy The normal flat-screen show, up charge for the front-row VR Experience, or even the AR on-stage experience where you put the goggles on and walk around the stage while the guys rip through the set. This would open up the venue options and allow artists to use unique and scenic venues and charge thousands for the boutique live experience while never selling out a show completely. It seems like they’d be making tour-money A LOT more efficiently that way while still offering a variety of new/unique/exciting experiences.

I’m not the biggest Puscifer junkie, but the Arcosanti event has me feeling some sort of way about the future.
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Old 11-01-2020, 08:49 AM   #7296
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I thought Puscifer’s performance was pretty cool. Makes me wonder if we’re not seeing the birth of new live formats. I could definitely see more musicians going this route and charging for different streaming Experience packages. Buy The normal flat-screen show, up charge for the front-row VR Experience, or even the AR on-stage experience where you put the goggles on and walk around the stage while the guys rip through the set. This would open up the venue options and allow artists to use unique and scenic venues and charge thousands for the boutique live experience while never selling out a show completely. It seems like they’d be making tour-money A LOT more efficiently that way while still offering a variety of new/unique/exciting experiences.

I’m not the biggest Puscifer junkie, but the Arcosanti event has me feeling some sort of way about the future.
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
11-02-2020, 06:38 AM
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Well, that gives me some hope for the future! I'm hoping beyond hope that some semblance of normal in the next year, but who really knows.

I ended up not checking it out. The first two songs they released just didn't really give me the feeling to spend money on a virtual concert. I did listen to the whole albums on Friday, thought it was just okay.
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Old 11-02-2020, 06:38 AM   #7297
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Well, that gives me some hope for the future! I'm hoping beyond hope that some semblance of normal in the next year, but who really knows.

I ended up not checking it out. The first two songs they released just didn't really give me the feeling to spend money on a virtual concert. I did listen to the whole albums on Friday, thought it was just okay.
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hellboy1975's Avatar hellboy1975
11-02-2020, 02:42 PM
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If the future is watching bands on a screen, then I want no part of it, regardless of the quality. There's no substitute for an actual live show.
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Old 11-02-2020, 02:42 PM   #7298
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Re: General Tool Discussion

If the future is watching bands on a screen, then I want no part of it, regardless of the quality. There's no substitute for an actual live show.
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lotus.'s Avatar lotus.
11-02-2020, 03:01 PM
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The first concert live stream that I paid for and watched was The Grateful Dead 50th anniversary concerts in 2017. It was so cool to be able to watch it when I was unable to get a ticket to attend in person.

I am all for bands pay for streaming music. I really hope Tool would do it! I'm sure that it would be a wonderful thing.
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Old 11-02-2020, 03:01 PM   #7299
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Re: General Tool Discussion

The first concert live stream that I paid for and watched was The Grateful Dead 50th anniversary concerts in 2017. It was so cool to be able to watch it when I was unable to get a ticket to attend in person.

I am all for bands pay for streaming music. I really hope Tool would do it! I'm sure that it would be a wonderful thing.
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The Embryo 2's Avatar The Embryo 2
11-04-2020, 02:02 AM
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Ah yes! Election night in Merica.

I'm trying hard to get into the new Puscifer, I just don't connect with his falsetto and as much as I like CR, she dominates the new material in places. Those 2 things combined push me away.
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Old 11-04-2020, 02:02 AM   #7300
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Ah yes! Election night in Merica.

I'm trying hard to get into the new Puscifer, I just don't connect with his falsetto and as much as I like CR, she dominates the new material in places. Those 2 things combined push me away.
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
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swimminginmusic's Avatar swimminginmusic
11-04-2020, 12:19 PM
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If the future is watching bands on a screen, then I want no part of it, regardless of the quality. There's no substitute for an actual live show.
Or trying to shell out 4-5 figures for one of 250 tickets to attend the event they’re taping... I fear this is the way it’ll go because it makes business sense. Especially if people are responding and Keep paying for livestream shows.

Livestream will never replace IRL shows... but these restrictions are pushing innovation and that’s the light in the darkness for me.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:19 PM   #7301
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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Originally Posted by hellboy1975 View Post
If the future is watching bands on a screen, then I want no part of it, regardless of the quality. There's no substitute for an actual live show.
Or trying to shell out 4-5 figures for one of 250 tickets to attend the event they’re taping... I fear this is the way it’ll go because it makes business sense. Especially if people are responding and Keep paying for livestream shows.

Livestream will never replace IRL shows... but these restrictions are pushing innovation and that’s the light in the darkness for me.
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Livestream will never replace IRL shows... but these restrictions are pushing innovation and that’s the light in the darkness for me.
Don't get me wrong, the livestreams are cool, and I'm down for some innovation. If it becomes a replacement for the real thing, then I will be greatly disappointed.
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Old 11-04-2020, 03:00 PM   #7302
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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Livestream will never replace IRL shows... but these restrictions are pushing innovation and that’s the light in the darkness for me.
Don't get me wrong, the livestreams are cool, and I'm down for some innovation. If it becomes a replacement for the real thing, then I will be greatly disappointed.
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I don't think it could in all honesty. They'd have to reshape and tank the entire music entertainment industry. Not to mention that they'd lose big portions of fan bases who live to go to events.
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Old 11-05-2020, 11:11 AM   #7303
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I don't think it could in all honesty. They'd have to reshape and tank the entire music entertainment industry. Not to mention that they'd lose big portions of fan bases who live to go to events.
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I’m sure, considering it from the artist’s point of view, THEY (Some) don’t want to give up playing to sold out venues and feeding off the energy of the crowd. I think that’ll live in one form or another, forever. It’s wanted/needed on both sides of the curtain.

I COULD see promoters using this as a pivot point to rake in loads of cash including a live-stream option, on top of limiting in-person attendance and hiking up the prices to VIP+ levels. Then they keep the streams on-demand for a week, or whatever, and only do 3 or 4 shows a month. ToolArmy would be the pass for Unlimited Tour Access including blurbs and backstage messages And insights from the crew.

It would also give the artists more freedom to highlight smaller and more iconic venues, instead of the HouseholdBrand Arena in every state’s biggest butt-hole city. The bands could take their time to set up more elaborate productions without breaking the bank to send 2 teams of equipment to leapfrog its way across the country. I look at Tool’s tour schedule sometimes and worry about them as PEOPLE. Hats off. I couldn’t do that like they do.

Sorry... meandering Dab-ramble over.
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Old 11-05-2020, 08:12 PM   #7304
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I’m sure, considering it from the artist’s point of view, THEY (Some) don’t want to give up playing to sold out venues and feeding off the energy of the crowd. I think that’ll live in one form or another, forever. It’s wanted/needed on both sides of the curtain.

I COULD see promoters using this as a pivot point to rake in loads of cash including a live-stream option, on top of limiting in-person attendance and hiking up the prices to VIP+ levels. Then they keep the streams on-demand for a week, or whatever, and only do 3 or 4 shows a month. ToolArmy would be the pass for Unlimited Tour Access including blurbs and backstage messages And insights from the crew.

It would also give the artists more freedom to highlight smaller and more iconic venues, instead of the HouseholdBrand Arena in every state’s biggest butt-hole city. The bands could take their time to set up more elaborate productions without breaking the bank to send 2 teams of equipment to leapfrog its way across the country. I look at Tool’s tour schedule sometimes and worry about them as PEOPLE. Hats off. I couldn’t do that like they do.

Sorry... meandering Dab-ramble over.
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11-06-2020, 09:05 AM
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I would join ToolArmy in a heartbeat if that happened!
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Old 11-06-2020, 09:05 AM   #7305
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I would join ToolArmy in a heartbeat if that happened!
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11-06-2020, 10:38 AM
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...Or what about a LiveNation membership giving you access to multiple band’s live-streams, VR & AR content, backstage insights, and access to exclusive Merch and ticket pools for in-person attendance?
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Old 11-06-2020, 10:38 AM   #7306
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Re: General Tool Discussion

...Or what about a LiveNation membership giving you access to multiple band’s live-streams, VR & AR content, backstage insights, and access to exclusive Merch and ticket pools for in-person attendance?
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11-06-2020, 12:22 PM
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That would also be cool!
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Old 11-06-2020, 12:22 PM   #7307
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Re: General Tool Discussion

That would also be cool!
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11-25-2020, 07:04 PM
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So does anyone have any thoughts on MJK's comments about Covid-19 damaging his lungs? I did some reading and I believe he caught it in New Zealand on that leg of the FI tour. There was some hub bub about a fan that attended who had tested positive but went anyway. Or something like that.
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Old 11-25-2020, 07:04 PM   #7308
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Re: General Tool Discussion

So does anyone have any thoughts on MJK's comments about Covid-19 damaging his lungs? I did some reading and I believe he caught it in New Zealand on that leg of the FI tour. There was some hub bub about a fan that attended who had tested positive but went anyway. Or something like that.
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
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11-27-2020, 12:18 PM
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I’ve got a lot of thoughts... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health. I’m just left wondering what a Tool album would sound like if Maynard ramped up his instrumental additions (his musicianship progressed a lot) and scaled back to minimalist vocals.
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Old 11-27-2020, 12:18 PM   #7309
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I’ve got a lot of thoughts... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health. I’m just left wondering what a Tool album would sound like if Maynard ramped up his instrumental additions (his musicianship progressed a lot) and scaled back to minimalist vocals.
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11-27-2020, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminginmusic View Post
I’ve got a lot of thoughts... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health. I’m just left wondering what a Tool album would sound like if Maynard ramped up his instrumental additions (his musicianship progressed a lot) and scaled back to minimalist vocals.
Yeah it would have to be a helluva sneeze from up in Section 420...

I'd say Fear Inoculem is pretty spare on vocals...
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Old 11-27-2020, 07:12 PM   #7310
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminginmusic View Post
I’ve got a lot of thoughts... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health. I’m just left wondering what a Tool album would sound like if Maynard ramped up his instrumental additions (his musicianship progressed a lot) and scaled back to minimalist vocals.
Yeah it would have to be a helluva sneeze from up in Section 420...

I'd say Fear Inoculem is pretty spare on vocals...
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Corex says:
June 12, 2010 at 1:50 am

"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
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that shit is so hard to detect since so many people catch it, pass it, and recover from it without ever knowing. doubt it was the dude in all the articles that came out around that time.
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Old 11-27-2020, 07:40 PM   #7311
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Re: General Tool Discussion

that shit is so hard to detect since so many people catch it, pass it, and recover from it without ever knowing. doubt it was the dude in all the articles that came out around that time.
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11-28-2020, 12:28 PM
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... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health.
I remember hearing (at the time of the first reports) that the "COVID guy" at the Auckland show had been on the floor, near the stage, in front of Adam.
I'd agree that would make it very unlikely that he's the one who infected Maynard, at least directly.
"COVID guy" could have been in close contact with anyone on the crew who walked through the crowd or was inside the barricade on that side (such as a security guy), and it could have been passed on to him that way.
I thought I'd read one of Maynard's recent accounts where he thought he might have contracted it in Australia, though. So while it could have been from someone at a show, it also could just have been from going out to a restaurant or shopping. I'd say maybe even more likely on an airplane, since there are flights between all of the cities on an Australia/NZ tour.
Old 11-28-2020, 12:28 PM   #7312
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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... honesty I doubt he would’ve gotten it from some guy sitting in section 420 would’ve had an impact on MJKs health.
I remember hearing (at the time of the first reports) that the "COVID guy" at the Auckland show had been on the floor, near the stage, in front of Adam.
I'd agree that would make it very unlikely that he's the one who infected Maynard, at least directly.
"COVID guy" could have been in close contact with anyone on the crew who walked through the crowd or was inside the barricade on that side (such as a security guy), and it could have been passed on to him that way.
I thought I'd read one of Maynard's recent accounts where he thought he might have contracted it in Australia, though. So while it could have been from someone at a show, it also could just have been from going out to a restaurant or shopping. I'd say maybe even more likely on an airplane, since there are flights between all of the cities on an Australia/NZ tour.
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So, how's everyone doing? GD's been pretty dead lately.
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:51 AM   #7313
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Re: General Tool Discussion

So, how's everyone doing? GD's been pretty dead lately.
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Quote:
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So, how's everyone doing? GD's been pretty dead lately.
There appear to be about a dozen new bot-created topics to read, so that's nice.
Old 12-15-2020, 12:02 PM   #7314
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So, how's everyone doing? GD's been pretty dead lately.
There appear to be about a dozen new bot-created topics to read, so that's nice.
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junior are you saying you aren't in need of dry-cleaning in Riyadh??
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Old 12-15-2020, 12:35 PM   #7315
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Re: General Tool Discussion

junior are you saying you aren't in need of dry-cleaning in Riyadh??
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junior are you saying you aren't in need of dry-cleaning in Riyadh??
Not this month, at least.
Old 12-15-2020, 06:48 PM   #7316
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junior are you saying you aren't in need of dry-cleaning in Riyadh??
Not this month, at least.
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How you holding up, junior? Any word on when you, your peers, or higher-ups are predicting touring will start again? I know it's pretty early to predict with the vaccine rolling out to a small sum this week.
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:15 PM   #7317
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Re: General Tool Discussion

How you holding up, junior? Any word on when you, your peers, or higher-ups are predicting touring will start again? I know it's pretty early to predict with the vaccine rolling out to a small sum this week.
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How you holding up, junior? Any word on when you, your peers, or higher-ups are predicting touring will start again? I know it's pretty early to predict with the vaccine rolling out to a small sum this week.
This is going to run long, as I can't give a short answer that really sums up the situation.

I've been better. I've only had about 16 days of work since the last Tool show in March. Many in the touring business have had none, so I guess I'm more fortunate than some. I'm also in the TV and Film Lighting Union in Hollywood, so once Film/TV re-opened in July I was able to start getting some jobs. I was out of town for all of 2019, so was not exactly at the top of Best Boys' and Gaffers' lists and the sparse work that was available went to those who were more in their recent memory. It's a big pool. I started getting calls to fill in on other people's shows, and finally did 1 day in August on a TV show called "Celebrity Show Off". I had nothing after that day until late September when a repeating Saturday gig showed up which was a "drive-in" concert series in Riverside, but we only did 5 of those.
In October-December I had 6 days on "The Masked Dancer" doing offstage and promo shots, a day on "Dancing with the Stars" filling in for the key light programmer, and 4 days on "The Voice" lighting the rehearsal studio footage that they show right before performances.

I'm hoping to get onto something with more of a full schedule in January, as TV is going to have to be my focus until touring can resume. TV/Film has been allowed to resume at almost full-capacity only because it is following very strict COVID testing and regulations.

As far as touring, I think most of us are under the belief that there won't be anything until at least the last quarter of 2021. If it returns before then, I'd be surprised. If it takes longer, I won't be surprised.
Arena shows won't be back until it's profitable. I don't see any acts on that level taking a loss just to tour.
Smaller tours will be back first, if the venues are still in existence (and that's another whole issue).
Smaller tours don't have as much overhead as arena and stadium tours. The big shows tend to make a lot of money, but they also cost a fortune to produce.
Smaller tours often make a reasonable profit, but some are just scraping by. If they have to do reduced capacity shows, the ticket prices will probably have to go up to make it feasible as they were usually counting on a full venue to cover costs.
Arena shows have a bigger equation. There are way more pieces and personnel involved. Half-full arenas don't cover the costs. While promotors can make big money on a sold out show, they can also lose big on something that's undersold. It's a balance they are used to living with and they find ways to make it work, though they'd prefer that all of their shows turn a profit, of course. If none/few of them make a profit then that just doesn't work, obviously.
When the green light comes on to start booking arena shows there's likely to be a lot more acts than there are venues, so getting a big tour booked going to take time. I suppose package tours are a possibility to help alleviate that.

So, how do you make a half or third or quarter-capacity arena show profitable? You have to raise ticket prices and/or cut overhead. The first thing to go would likely be production value. Some bands don't have extended production, and that works for them, but a lot of tours consider it a big part of what they are presenting to the audience. Some people would be completely ok with going to see these bands with a stripped-down show. Some may even prefer it. It's part of why the drive-in shows have been (somewhat) successful. Those are very basic, but a lot of the acts doing them often didn't carry substantial production on a normal tour. I've not heard of any arena acts doing drive-ins. I also don't see it as a sustainable model. I think it's a novelty at first, and would probably wear thin after going to more than one. It's also putting a minimal number of people back to work. Compare a drive-in show that only happens one day a week and employs 10 technical crew and 4 stagehands to an arena tour that works at least 5 days a week and employs 60 traveling crew and 50 stagehands and there are a lot of workers being left out.

Some of the arena tour overhead can't be cut. You'll still need X number of venue employees, and other operational costs such as HVAC just to safely/legally do an indoor show. Ticketmaster plans to roll out their vaccine tracing system. I would find it hard to believe that the cost won't be figured into the overhead, but I could be wrong.
Apart from the logistics that everyone talks about, one semi-unspoken factor is insurance. I think insurance will be the biggest hurdle. It's going to be costly, if not impossible to insure a show that is still considered risky, and that's a show stopper.

If that's not enough doom and gloom from me (it probably is more than enough), we need to consider that some big parts of the business won't make it to whenever the restart date will be.
Many lighting, sound and video companies who supply the gear for tours have been sitting completely (or nearly) idle since March with no (or very little) money coming in. A lot of them had full calendars for the year and made business projections and purchases based on expected income only to have all of that go away immediately on March 15th. Some got PPP loans, but even that was a long time ago and only covered a short period. Many have had to shut their doors either temporarily or permanently, leaving their employees out of work. Less companies also means less competition when the market resumes. This will drive prices up and/or create a shortage of equipment. Neither is good.
Small venues are taking a huge hit. Most have been completely closed for 9 months already. Some won't be around when touring resumes.
Many tour workers have run out of unemployment benefits, if they even qualified for them in the first place. Savings have run out, if they had any in the first place. Many have moved on to different careers (if they could) and a lot of those folks won't be back. In most of those cases we are talking about people who'd had some previous training or experience in another line of work.
For many of us, this is the only thing we've ever done for a living. In my case that's been 32 years. I'm not qualified to do anything else. I don't have a college degree in something I can "fall back on". The rest of the business world doesn't see what we do as meaningful work experience they can apply towards a career they can offer. It's not a hobby, but is viewed as such by those who approve jobs applications and loans. Most of us have very specific skill sets that we've honed over a long period of time, even dedicating our lives to it. Our only hope is that we can get back to what we do soon.

Last edited by junior; 12-16-2020 at 05:00 PM..
Old 12-16-2020, 04:56 PM   #7318
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Re: General Tool Discussion

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Originally Posted by Whowatchesthewampas View Post
How you holding up, junior? Any word on when you, your peers, or higher-ups are predicting touring will start again? I know it's pretty early to predict with the vaccine rolling out to a small sum this week.
This is going to run long, as I can't give a short answer that really sums up the situation.

I've been better. I've only had about 16 days of work since the last Tool show in March. Many in the touring business have had none, so I guess I'm more fortunate than some. I'm also in the TV and Film Lighting Union in Hollywood, so once Film/TV re-opened in July I was able to start getting some jobs. I was out of town for all of 2019, so was not exactly at the top of Best Boys' and Gaffers' lists and the sparse work that was available went to those who were more in their recent memory. It's a big pool. I started getting calls to fill in on other people's shows, and finally did 1 day in August on a TV show called "Celebrity Show Off". I had nothing after that day until late September when a repeating Saturday gig showed up which was a "drive-in" concert series in Riverside, but we only did 5 of those.
In October-December I had 6 days on "The Masked Dancer" doing offstage and promo shots, a day on "Dancing with the Stars" filling in for the key light programmer, and 4 days on "The Voice" lighting the rehearsal studio footage that they show right before performances.

I'm hoping to get onto something with more of a full schedule in January, as TV is going to have to be my focus until touring can resume. TV/Film has been allowed to resume at almost full-capacity only because it is following very strict COVID testing and regulations.

As far as touring, I think most of us are under the belief that there won't be anything until at least the last quarter of 2021. If it returns before then, I'd be surprised. If it takes longer, I won't be surprised.
Arena shows won't be back until it's profitable. I don't see any acts on that level taking a loss just to tour.
Smaller tours will be back first, if the venues are still in existence (and that's another whole issue).
Smaller tours don't have as much overhead as arena and stadium tours. The big shows tend to make a lot of money, but they also cost a fortune to produce.
Smaller tours often make a reasonable profit, but some are just scraping by. If they have to do reduced capacity shows, the ticket prices will probably have to go up to make it feasible as they were usually counting on a full venue to cover costs.
Arena shows have a bigger equation. There are way more pieces and personnel involved. Half-full arenas don't cover the costs. While promotors can make big money on a sold out show, they can also lose big on something that's undersold. It's a balance they are used to living with and they find ways to make it work, though they'd prefer that all of their shows turn a profit, of course. If none/few of them make a profit then that just doesn't work, obviously.
When the green light comes on to start booking arena shows there's likely to be a lot more acts than there are venues, so getting a big tour booked going to take time. I suppose package tours are a possibility to help alleviate that.

So, how do you make a half or third or quarter-capacity arena show profitable? You have to raise ticket prices and/or cut overhead. The first thing to go would likely be production value. Some bands don't have extended production, and that works for them, but a lot of tours consider it a big part of what they are presenting to the audience. Some people would be completely ok with going to see these bands with a stripped-down show. Some may even prefer it. It's part of why the drive-in shows have been (somewhat) successful. Those are very basic, but a lot of the acts doing them often didn't carry substantial production on a normal tour. I've not heard of any arena acts doing drive-ins. I also don't see it as a sustainable model. I think it's a novelty at first, and would probably wear thin after going to more than one. It's also putting a minimal number of people back to work. Compare a drive-in show that only happens one day a week and employs 10 technical crew and 4 stagehands to an arena tour that works at least 5 days a week and employs 60 traveling crew and 50 stagehands and there are a lot of workers being left out.

Some of the arena tour overhead can't be cut. You'll still need X number of venue employees, and other operational costs such as HVAC just to safely/legally do an indoor show. Ticketmaster plans to roll out their vaccine tracing system. I would find it hard to believe that the cost won't be figured into the overhead, but I could be wrong.
Apart from the logistics that everyone talks about, one semi-unspoken factor is insurance. I think insurance will be the biggest hurdle. It's going to be costly, if not impossible to insure a show that is still considered risky, and that's a show stopper.

If that's not enough doom and gloom from me (it probably is more than enough), we need to consider that some big parts of the business won't make it to whenever the restart date will be.
Many lighting, sound and video companies who supply the gear for tours have been sitting completely (or nearly) idle since March with no (or very little) money coming in. A lot of them had full calendars for the year and made business projections and purchases based on expected income only to have all of that go away immediately on March 15th. Some got PPP loans, but even that was a long time ago and only covered a short period. Many have had to shut their doors either temporarily or permanently, leaving their employees out of work. Less companies also means less competition when the market resumes. This will drive prices up and/or create a shortage of equipment. Neither is good.
Small venues are taking a huge hit. Most have been completely closed for 9 months already. Some won't be around when touring resumes.
Many tour workers have run out of unemployment benefits, if they even qualified for them in the first place. Savings have run out, if they had any in the first place. Many have moved on to different careers (if they could) and a lot of those folks won't be back. In most of those cases we are talking about people who'd had some previous training or experience in another line of work.
For many of us, this is the only thing we've ever done for a living. In my case that's been 32 years. I'm not qualified to do anything else. I don't have a college degree in something I can "fall back on". The rest of the business world doesn't see what we do as meaningful work experience they can apply towards a career they can offer. It's not a hobby, but is viewed as such by those who approve jobs applications and loans. Most of us have very specific skill sets that we've honed over a long period of time, even dedicating our lives to it. Our only hope is that we can get back to what we do soon.

Last edited by junior; 12-16-2020 at 05:00 PM..
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Whowatchesthewampas's Avatar Whowatchesthewampas
12-17-2020, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post

Apart from the logistics that everyone talks about, one semi-unspoken factor is insurance. I think insurance will be the biggest hurdle. It's going to be costly, if not impossible to insure a show that is still considered risky, and that's a show stopper.
I have kinda wondered this. I can't remember if it was on the Fourtheye forums, or Discord but this will be something to watch. I don't think Ticketmaster is going to move until they get the okay from insurance companies, and they are extra cautious right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Most of us have very specific skill sets that we've honed over a long period of time, even dedicating our lives to it. Our only hope is that we can get back to what we do soon.
I hope you get to get back to it soon. I know you said you have a little work coming in right now, and it's probably not enough, but I hope you and your peers get to get back out there this year even though it may look different. Hopefully the TV schedule works out for you and you stay working until touring can start again
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:52 AM   #7319
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Re: General Tool Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post

Apart from the logistics that everyone talks about, one semi-unspoken factor is insurance. I think insurance will be the biggest hurdle. It's going to be costly, if not impossible to insure a show that is still considered risky, and that's a show stopper.
I have kinda wondered this. I can't remember if it was on the Fourtheye forums, or Discord but this will be something to watch. I don't think Ticketmaster is going to move until they get the okay from insurance companies, and they are extra cautious right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Most of us have very specific skill sets that we've honed over a long period of time, even dedicating our lives to it. Our only hope is that we can get back to what we do soon.
I hope you get to get back to it soon. I know you said you have a little work coming in right now, and it's probably not enough, but I hope you and your peers get to get back out there this year even though it may look different. Hopefully the TV schedule works out for you and you stay working until touring can start again
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lotus.'s Avatar lotus.
12-17-2020, 09:08 PM
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I finally gave Existential Reckoning a proper listen from start to finish without interruptions.

I really liked most of it. I cant wait to listen again.

I get a NIN vibe from the guitars on it.

👽
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Old 12-17-2020, 09:08 PM   #7320
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Re: General Tool Discussion

I finally gave Existential Reckoning a proper listen from start to finish without interruptions.

I really liked most of it. I cant wait to listen again.

I get a NIN vibe from the guitars on it.

👽
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