opin.menu.register.jpgopin.menu.members.jpgopin.menu.forumfaq.jpgopin.menu.search.jpgopin.menu.home.jpgview our wiki

Go Back  The Tool Page: Opinion » Tool » Albums » 10,000 Days
User Name
Password
Reply
Old 05-26-2006, 10:08 PM   #1
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
 
new dimension_disposition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: malibu, ca
Posts: 175
Bincount™: 1
Surround Sound

I just Heard 10,000 days in surround sound. Holy Shit, it's finally giving Lateralus a run for its money. It was almost as if I played a CD I had not heard before. Damn iPod and factory car stereo do not do it justice.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:09 PM   #2
Level 9 - Obstreperous
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,310
Bincount™: 88
Re: Surround Sound

People are going to call you a dumbass because the CD was made in stereo so therefore anything your surround sound system does "isn't how it was meant to be heard."

I say, fuck it, if you like how it sounds, good.
__________________
I now have a signature.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:13 PM   #3
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
 
new dimension_disposition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: malibu, ca
Posts: 175
Bincount™: 1
Re: Surround Sound

ok, it still sounds better to me.
__________________
Am I God or His Creator?
The Latter.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:19 PM   #4
Level 4 - Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 20
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Listening to it in surround may not be what the cd was designed for, but it most certainly does open up new sounds and complexities that are very difficult to detect with stereo sound. I tried it on Wings/10000 Days and it was fascinating. The vocals are tossed in the centre channel and are more easily heard. There were some lovely harmonies I had not heard before, especially on the "High is the way..." section. Drums are also far clearer.

I definitely try to listen to any new album in as many different ways as possible to fully grasp all their complexities (High-end stereo, shitty boom box, headphones, computer speakers, surround sound, low volume, listening in a different room from where it's playing, etc...).
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:29 PM   #5
Banned.
 
formerlycontent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 537
Bincount™: 212
Re: Surround Sound

my girlfriends never had an orgasm
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:33 PM   #6
Level 7 - Loquacious
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 427
Bincount™: 27
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
my girlfriends never had an orgasm
How long have you been with your girlfriend for?
__________________
22/04/02 Brisbane, 21/01/07 Gold Coast BDO, 24/01/07 Sydney, 25/01/07 Sydney BDO, 31/01/07 Melbourne, 11/07/10 San Francisco, 12/07/10 Sacramento, 14/07/10 San Diego, 24/01/11 Brisbane, 27/04/13 Melbourne, 3/05/13 Sydney, 4/05/13 Sydney, 6/01/16 San Francisco, 7/01/16 San Francisco, 9/01/16 San Diego, 10/01/16 San Diego
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:49 PM   #7
Level 7 - Loquacious
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 427
Bincount™: 27
Re: Surround Sound

By the way, I just played The Pot, 10,000 Days and Right In Two at extremely high volume on my stereo and they were absolutely brilliant! The base just pumps throughout the entire place and Danny's bits and pieces here and there sound so good. The vocals and guitar kick arse too - I haven't had too many opportunities to play this new album extremely loud so far (neighbours, housemates, people in general being nearby etc.) but I really think loud is the way to go...

I'd love to hear what the album sounds like in surround sound. Should be good I'd imagine...

God I want to see the band play live again! My eardrums need another marathon workout like they got back in 2002...
__________________
22/04/02 Brisbane, 21/01/07 Gold Coast BDO, 24/01/07 Sydney, 25/01/07 Sydney BDO, 31/01/07 Melbourne, 11/07/10 San Francisco, 12/07/10 Sacramento, 14/07/10 San Diego, 24/01/11 Brisbane, 27/04/13 Melbourne, 3/05/13 Sydney, 4/05/13 Sydney, 6/01/16 San Francisco, 7/01/16 San Francisco, 9/01/16 San Diego, 10/01/16 San Diego
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 10:50 PM   #8
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
PoisonSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 68
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

if I was in a band I think I might make a nice 5.1 dvd of every cd I made instead of crying about downloading and shit. that newest nin was really improved by the 5.1.

I'd like to hear some crying about those rip off dvds being downloaded. no one should feel bad about that shit for 5 minutes
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2006, 04:24 PM   #9
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: noitacoL.......... Knows: All
Posts: 110
Bincount™: 1
Re: Surround Sound

yeh seriously, i listened to the album at night with all the lights off and blasting in 5.1 surround.

if this isn't how they intended the cd to be played, i'd like to see how they intended...
__________________
Knowledge Is Power
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2006, 06:26 PM   #10
Level 9 - Obstreperous
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,310
Bincount™: 88
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by drone007
yeh seriously, i listened to the album at night with all the lights off and blasting in 5.1 surround.

if this isn't how they intended the cd to be played, i'd like to see how they intended...
Well, I only said that because you can't get true surround out of two channels.
__________________
I now have a signature.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2006, 06:59 PM   #11
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

Pro Logic II FTW!
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2006, 08:39 PM   #12
Level 4 - Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 46
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

People that play stereo music thru 5.1 channel need to be put down. Seriously. Ever heard of a sound stage? Ever heard of a band that 'surrounds' its audience? Completely retarded, and sounds like crap too.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 12:07 AM   #13
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

you've never used Pro Logic II, have you? it's not the definitive way to listen to music, but it is pretty fun for shits and giggles, it creates some very cool effects. PL1 is absolutely horrible, but PLII is a huge improvement...it kicks the crap out of any software upmuxing ever (like creative's horrible CMSS, among other things)
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 02:58 PM   #14
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hell, Alaska
Posts: 120
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

I just keep thinking that if Tool wanted you to listen to it in Surround, they would have released it in surround on like DVD-audio or something. The capability is certainly there for peopel who can enjoy it.
__________________
So over this.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 03:11 PM   #15
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

i bet you they're working on it, somehow somewhere

i would love a dual disc 10,000 Days, like Downward Spiral status...here's hoping
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 03:22 PM   #16
Level 7 - Loquacious
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 411
Bincount™: 4
Re: Surround Sound

Wow, the album does sound very cool in Pro Logic II. I agree it's not what the artist intended, and stereo is definitely the definitive way to hear the album, but if you're trying to hear the vocals, this definitely does clear them up. And for some reason danny's drums seem to roll around to the rear channels at just the right time. One of the better pro logic II experiences I've had.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 03:46 PM   #17
Banned.
 
mike09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 1,985
Bincount™: 664
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by hushypushy
you've never used Pro Logic II, have you? it's not the definitive way to listen to music, but it is pretty fun for shits and giggles, it creates some very cool effects. PL1 is absolutely horrible, but PLII is a huge improvement...it kicks the crap out of any software upmuxing ever (like creative's horrible CMSS, among other things)
How much does it cost?
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 04:36 PM   #18
Level 1 - Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by vilemerchant
People that play stereo music thru 5.1 channel need to be put down. Seriously. Ever heard of a sound stage? Ever heard of a band that 'surrounds' its audience? Completely retarded, and sounds like crap too.

not to be an ahole , but Pink Floyd on the PULSE tour had live concert surround sound and it was fucking amazing! There were speakers in front and in the back of the venue. If Tool ever did this it would be a nuts. So yes I have heard of a band that 'surrounds' its audience....
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 05:41 PM   #19
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
PoisonSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 68
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

sounds like work
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 05:57 PM   #20
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike09
How much does it cost?
well, it's not so much a separate thing is that it's a feature of amps/receivers... just check out most amps for surround sound, they should have PLII (watch out for just Pro Logic....it sucks...#2 is where it's at).

i dunno, just head down to your local electronics store (Fry's, Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, whatever) and check out the surround systems.

newer 7.1 receivers even have Pro Logic IIx, which upmuxes stereo streams into 7.1. i've never heard that, but i cant imagine it really being that much more exciting.

additionally, some computer speakers by Logitech have Pro Logic II, the Z-680, Z-5500 and Z-5450 have the ability to do PLII, i believe. however, there are different types of PLII (movie, music, and game) which utilize different mixing matrices; i dont think that those Logitech speakers let you pick which one you want.

yeah, those are the basics i guess
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 05:59 PM   #21
Level 4 - Thinker
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 49
Bincount™: 1
Re: Surround Sound

I'll listen to 5.1 surround sound when I have 5.1 ears ;)

Seriously though, it'd be pretty cool to listen to this in surround, just to see how it works. But for now i'm more than happy with my closed back Seinheiser headphones.... wow.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 06:50 PM   #22
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

find a friend with 5.1 and check it out! it's fun.

by the way, to the people who said that the album cannot be intended to be in 5.1....that's actually incorrect. it IS possible, yet highly unlikely.

Pro Logic II uses a matrix to seperate channels. it can do it from any stereo audio source, it just uses a set matrix.

however, there are plenty of videogames that specifically say DOLBY PROLOGIC II on them (a lot of Gamecube and PS2 games). basically, these games contain "flags" in the stereo audio. basically, in a stereo source, the center channel is created out of the similarities between the L and R channels. there are certain "flags" (i dont know a better way to describe it, sorry) that are able to seperate the front and rear sounds from each L and R channel. so it's not true discrete 5.1 sound, but yes, it can create somewhat of a "real" surround sound.

so could Tool have done that with 10,000 Days? implemented certain flags? it's very possible---check out the threads with people saying the guitar appears on each side, not in the very center. it's possible that the way they mixed it is conducive to being upmuxed by Pro Logic II...

but is that a logical thing for them to do when they could actually release a 5.1 mix (dual disc for example)? is it likely that they actually did that? do i think they did that? no, not at all.
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 06:59 PM   #23
Watch the Weather Change
 
Bogart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Room 237
Posts: 6,717
Bincount™: 4444
Re: Surround Sound

No one has listened to the album in 5.1 surround sound.
__________________
Bogart //self-med mod
T00LARMY: BJ
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 10:35 PM   #24
Level 7 - Loquacious
 
The Official Fiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 202
Bincount™: 6
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by new dimension_disposition
ok, it still sounds better to me.
So true, it does.
__________________
the answer to both your questions is this...
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 11:47 PM   #25
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
Count_Grishnackh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 55
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by hushypushy
however, there are plenty of videogames that specifically say DOLBY PROLOGIC II on them (a lot of Gamecube and PS2 games). basically, these games contain "flags" in the stereo audio. basically, in a stereo source, the center channel is created out of the similarities between the L and R channels. there are certain "flags" (i dont know a better way to describe it, sorry) that are able to seperate the front and rear sounds from each L and R channel. so it's not true discrete 5.1 sound, but yes, it can create somewhat of a "real" surround sound.
Um...playstation 2 and gamecube (and Xbox, xbox 360, fuck, even dreamcast) used DVD discs...thats why they are encoded for Pro Logic II...something that cannot be done with a standard audio DVD.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 01:26 AM   #26
Level 7 - Loquacious
 
BlindVisionary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 233
Bincount™: 24
Re: Surround Sound

I listen to all my music on 5.1 PLII...When i switch to stereo it sounds so flat and boring....
__________________
All right, let's not panic. I'll make the money by selling one of my livers. I can get by with one - Homer Simpson
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 06:37 AM   #27
Level 3 - Talker
 
TC1437's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Huntsville,Alabama
Posts: 10
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Sounds good on my pc with 5.1.................
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 06:50 AM   #28
Level 2 - Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count_Grishnackh
Um...playstation 2 and gamecube (and Xbox, xbox 360, fuck, even dreamcast) used DVD discs...thats why they are encoded for Pro Logic II...something that cannot be done with a standard audio DVD.
ProLogic II isn't something an audio signal is encoded for, it's a way that a receiver can decode the same audio file and seperate the sound into 5.1 distinct channels of sound. You can use ProLogic on a TV audio signal if you want. I think hushypushy was talking about engineering the sound in games in a way that the end result from the ProLogic decoding is completely intentional, as opposed to the absolutely shitty sound you typically get from using ProLogic II on a stereo source - especially music.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 12:52 PM   #29
Level 4 - Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 46
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRoggles
Where does it say the cd is recorded in stereo? Or NOT in 5.1?
It's not possible for a CD to be recorded in 5.1, that's not part of the format.
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 09:38 PM   #30
Level 11 - Clamorous
 
hushypushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,750
Bincount™: 3988
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count_Grishnackh
Um...playstation 2 and gamecube (and Xbox, xbox 360, fuck, even dreamcast) used DVD discs...thats why they are encoded for Pro Logic II...something that cannot be done with a standard audio DVD.
you are completely off base, it is obvious that you do not have any idea how Pro Logic II works at all. rather than argue with you, i'm just going to wait for you to get onto google, read up about things, and come back here when you know what you're talking about. that is all.
__________________
"You think my lack of tact is bad, which is subjective. Personally I think it's great." -misanthrope
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 03:25 AM   #31
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
Mr C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: melbOz
Posts: 53
Bincount™: 15
Re: Surround Sound

When l listened to the pot in PLII surround ,the guitar at 1:43 "kangaroo done hung... kicks in on the back channels to kick it into a different gear , for me anyway.
Whether it's intentional or not doesn't mean you can't get something out of it.
Who's saying it's not intentional. Surely it can be worked these days.
__________________
Back & to the left!
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 06:07 AM   #32
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 97
Bincount™: 0
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by hushypushy
find a friend with 5.1 and check it out! it's fun.

by the way, to the people who said that the album cannot be intended to be in 5.1....that's actually incorrect. it IS possible, yet highly unlikely.

Pro Logic II uses a matrix to seperate channels. it can do it from any stereo audio source, it just uses a set matrix.

however, there are plenty of videogames that specifically say DOLBY PROLOGIC II on them (a lot of Gamecube and PS2 games). basically, these games contain "flags" in the stereo audio. basically, in a stereo source, the center channel is created out of the similarities between the L and R channels. there are certain "flags" (i dont know a better way to describe it, sorry) that are able to seperate the front and rear sounds from each L and R channel. so it's not true discrete 5.1 sound, but yes, it can create somewhat of a "real" surround sound.
Actually....what PL does is take the "out of phase" information from the left and right channels, and put them in the rear and center....but all this discussion is pretty stupid, because, if a piece of audio is not MIXED in 5.1 (that's 5 DISCREET channels + a sub channel), then it can't be PLAYED in 5.1!!!! PL and Dolby Digital and DTS are all just different ways of decoding the mixed 5.1 source audio. If you are using PL or any of the awful DSP's that come on amps nowadays, you're seriously ruining what is a brilliant stereo mix.

OMG.....just as I was typing this Rosetta Stoned came on my ipod (which I have on random). Out of 3K songs that's pretty good:):):)
__________________
"A war on terror is like having a war on jealousy....you're not gonna fucking win it...."

-David Cross
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 07:48 AM   #33
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
 
Convectuoso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 89
Bincount™: 31
Re: Surround Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huff
Actually....what PL does is take the "out of phase" information from the left and right channels, and put them in the rear and center
As you say it takes a stereo source and creates more channels from it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huff
PL and Dolby Digital and DTS are all just different ways of decoding the mixed 5.1 source audio.
Pro Logic decodes a stereo source and 'creates' rear and centre outputs which isn't the same as DD or DTS which process a 5.1 input and output in 5.1.

I know that you already knew this but just thought I’d point out the slight mistake :)

EDIT: Oh and i never listen to CD's in surround unless they were mixed that way. Even then i'm not crazy about it, seems to Gimmicky imo and i prefer the instruments aren't 'seperated'

Last edited by Convectuoso; 05-30-2006 at 07:50 AM..
OFFLINE |   Reply With Quote


Reply

Rate This Thread
You have already rated this thread
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Quick Reply
Your Reply:
Forum Jump

all posts © their respective authors. the tool page is not responsible for any of their thoughts, brilliant or otherwise.