(please be unwilling to quote the following in it's entirety as it is the thread's main statement - and a lengthy one at that)
"the patient"
read along closely and make comparrisons to this track, feel it, get vulnerable. the general statement of the patient suggests that we've already been told everything we need, and now mjk's simply playing the waiting game (the same "tortoise and hare" story hicks often ranted about - the same "learn to swim, i'll see you down in arizona bay"). tool's desire to create an album (the "groan of tedium") can only be accomplished t'wards the "bottom" - it's a demoralizing thing to do for someone as spiritually connected to the source as maynard obviously is; but this has been done a few time before, with variants of the same exact messages, and our constant "over-thinking and over analyzing" is wearing them down - "this paranoid paralyzed vampire act's a little old" - "paranoid", "paralysed", "vampire" are all characteristics of the human experience - but getting back down and onto this level (to create such amazing music) is maynard's way of seeing eye to eye with us- they bring themselves down, and bring us up - and all for us. he doesn't really need this human experience for himself, and it is indeed painful to feel so incomplete here, but he needs us to reach his level ("i need you to FEEL this i need this to make me whole"). and the truth of a better existence can be witnessed through what he has found ("locked up inside you", "muscle memory", etc.): "if there were no rewards to reap no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path i've chosen here ...i certainly would've walked away by now ...and i still may". this is our evidence that everything he has ever mentioned from opiate ...is not only true, but should be followed ("what you need is someone strong to guide you", "i am your/the witness that flesh and blood can be trusted" - so trust him already!!! or else he'll merely become "the light and way that they will only read about"). and this track should've startled us, the fearful, by now. even aenima should've startled us, sure, but undertow's an obvious slap in the face, to get us off our collective asses.
he's waiting for us, but what the fuck are we waiting for?
"i can't imagine you wouldn't welcome any change, my friend"
TO answer your question someone who can see theie own faults is far worse than someone who can't because they don't know what the damage is, but the other does and still continues to do it which is unacceptable
__________________ I live to share what i see around this world.
Not believing in things won't make it happen because you don't believe it will.
(please be unwilling to quote the following in it's entirety as it is the thread's main statement - and a lengthy one at that)
"the patient"
read along closely and make comparrisons to this track, feel it, get vulnerable. the general statement of the patient suggests that we've already been told everything we need, and now mjk's simply playing the waiting game (the same "tortoise and hare" story hicks often ranted about - the same "learn to swim, i'll see you down in arizona bay"). tool's desire to create an album (the "groan of tedium") can only be accomplished t'wards the "bottom" - it's a demoralizing thing to do for someone as spiritually connected to the source as maynard obviously is; but this has been done a few time before, with variants of the same exact messages, and our constant "over-thinking and over analyzing" is wearing them down - "this paranoid paralyzed vampire act's a little old" - "paranoid", "paralysed", "vampire" are all characteristics of the human experience - but getting back down and onto this level (to create such amazing music) is maynard's way of seeing eye to eye with us- they bring themselves down, and bring us up - and all for us. he doesn't really need this human experience for himself, and it is indeed painful to feel so incomplete here, but he needs us to reach his level ("i need you to FEEL this i need this to make me whole"). and the truth of a better existence can be witnessed through what he has found ("locked up inside you", "muscle memory", etc.): "if there were no rewards to reap no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path i've chosen here ...i certainly would've walked away by now ...and i still may". this is our evidence that everything he has ever mentioned from opiate ...is not only true, but should be followed ("what you need is someone strong to guide you", "i am your/the witness that flesh and blood can be trusted" - so trust him already!!! or else he'll merely become "the light and way that they will only read about"). and this track should've startled us, the fearful, by now. even aenima should've startled us, sure, but undertow's an obvious slap in the face, to get us off our collective asses.
he's waiting for us, but what the fuck are we waiting for?
"i can't imagine you wouldn't welcome any change, my friend"
Well put, you just described what I've felt about it all along but never bothered to type enough to say. I totally agree
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
(please be unwilling to quote the following in it's entirety as it is the thread's main statement - and a lengthy one at that)
"the patient"
read along closely and make comparrisons to this track, feel it, get vulnerable. the general statement of the patient suggests that we've already been told everything we need, and now mjk's simply playing the waiting game (the same "tortoise and hare" story hicks often ranted about - the same "learn to swim, i'll see you down in arizona bay"). tool's desire to create an album (the "groan of tedium") can only be accomplished t'wards the "bottom" - it's a demoralizing thing to do for someone as spiritually connected to the source as maynard obviously is; but this has been done a few time before, with variants of the same exact messages, and our constant "over-thinking and over analyzing" is wearing them down - "this paranoid paralyzed vampire act's a little old" - "paranoid", "paralysed", "vampire" are all characteristics of the human experience - but getting back down and onto this level (to create such amazing music) is maynard's way of seeing eye to eye with us- they bring themselves down, and bring us up - and all for us. he doesn't really need this human experience for himself, and it is indeed painful to feel so incomplete here, but he needs us to reach his level ("i need you to FEEL this i need this to make me whole"). and the truth of a better existence can be witnessed through what he has found ("locked up inside you", "muscle memory", etc.): "if there were no rewards to reap no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path i've chosen here ...i certainly would've walked away by now ...and i still may". this is our evidence that everything he has ever mentioned from opiate ...is not only true, but should be followed ("what you need is someone strong to guide you", "i am your/the witness that flesh and blood can be trusted" - so trust him already!!! or else he'll merely become "the light and way that they will only read about"). and this track should've startled us, the fearful, by now. even aenima should've startled us, sure, but undertow's an obvious slap in the face, to get us off our collective asses.
he's waiting for us, but what the fuck are we waiting for?
"i can't imagine you wouldn't welcome any change, my friend"
...... well i guess i dont have to make a new thread for "the patient". i was going to say the exact same thing. i agree with you 100%. im glad you and i are on the same page most of the time. i wish that more people would see/hear/experience the, what i think to be, real magic that comes from tool. i think tool is suppost to help you spiritually. ive been a lot more spiritual after listening to tool and i sure hope everyone does/will feel the same. i dont know about anyone else here but im sick and tired of sitting on my ass doing shit all. id rather expand my mind, activate my merkaba, and reach for 46 and 2.
I was thinking about this yesterday actually. At least some of us are in the same book, though our page may be slightly behind eachother.
"Be patient"
Oh, and one thing to add. lllvllledusa, remember when you were talking about how 11:11 was in our minds so that we'd remember it?
"I must keep reminding myself of this"
Maybe that's what you guys are saying too, I'm behind, but catching up.
__________________ Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly. ~Albert Einstein
I was thinking about this yesterday actually. At least some of us are in the same book, though our page may be slightly behind eachother.
"Be patient"
Oh, and one thing to add. lllvllledusa, remember when you were talking about how 11:11 was in our minds so that we'd remember it?
"I must keep reminding myself of this"
Maybe that's what you guys are saying too, I'm behind, but catching up.
you always have something really interesting to say. thanks.
"This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.
But I'm still right here
Giving blood, keeping faith
And I'm still right here."
i think maynard is saying that hes still right here giving his blood to the vampires. the vampires being humans in general or even his fans. hes allowing to give his "blood" cause he has faith in us. since he believes in us hes being patient and waiting to see if we will start to get our asses moving. but for how much longer will he wait? who knows. he seems to really want to move to the next step, but it seems like people/fans are keeping him back. or atleast thats how i see it.
While I must say, I agree w/ the general perception. I must also say, I don't think MJK is/has/ever will speak soo literally toward "us", the fans.
The Grudge is a male dominated perspective. The Patient is light years away (E.B.A.), in a seperate universe, the females perspective. I think The Patient is more suitable to be from the earths p.o.v. , and T. & L. imo, is like what you're getting from this song.
__________________ stop trying to pull me out of my self indulgant pitifull hole
This song is one of my favorites. I look at this song as a monologue for Maynard's personal path to "enlightenment" so to speak. I don't want to get on any kind of religious rant of any kind, but I think we all seek general truth about our own human-nature. When someone realizes that a religion's doctrine doesn't coincide with truths they are seeking, it can often be the first step to seeking their own spiritual enlightenment. If you have to "lie to yourself" to believe something (which religion requires much of the time), you may find that that behavior doesn't jive well with your whole "search for truth" journey. So, I think that it's a "tedious" path to go on... to seek your own spiritual fulfillment, especially when it's being spotlighted in the music and lyrics but well worth it.
When someone tries to grow spiritually while seeking their own way it's likely to be a very long process, a roller-coaster ride of emotions, seeing opposite ends of the spectrums and everything in the middle when it comes to opinions and beliefs. I think this is the journey Tool's albums have taken it's followers on. At least trying to get the gears grinding for people to find their own spiritual path. Maybe I've strayed from the topic of the "Patient", but I do however believe that when one goes on a "spiritual journey" it's long and full of revelations and requires quite a lot of patience... ;)
While I must say, I agree w/ the general perception. I must also say, I don't think MJK is/has/ever will speak soo literally toward "us", the fans.
The Grudge is a male dominated perspective. The Patient is light years away (E.B.A.), in a seperate universe, the females perspective. I think The Patient is more suitable to be from the earths p.o.v. , and T. & L. imo, is like what you're getting from this song.
i agree with this for the most part. i think maynard deffinetly has a message for the general public with some of his lyrical content, but it's not so direct, atleast not in this song. this seems to me like a personal song about aknowledging the good things that keep you going despite all the bullshit. i don't like drawing lines in the sand when it comes to gender perspective though.
This song is one of my favorites. I look at this song as a monologue for Maynard's personal path to "enlightenment" so to speak. I don't want to get on any kind of religious rant of any kind, but I think we all seek general truth about our own human-nature. When someone realizes that a religion's doctrine doesn't coincide with truths they are seeking, it can often be the first step to seeking their own spiritual enlightenment. If you have to "lie to yourself" to believe something (which religion requires much of the time), you may find that that behavior doesn't jive well with your whole "search for truth" journey. So, I think that it's a "tedious" path to go on... to seek your own spiritual fulfillment, especially when it's being spotlighted in the music and lyrics but well worth it.
When someone tries to grow spiritually while seeking their own way it's likely to be a very long process, a roller-coaster ride of emotions, seeing opposite ends of the spectrums and everything in the middle when it comes to opinions and beliefs. I think this is the journey Tool's albums have taken it's followers on. At least trying to get the gears grinding for people to find their own spiritual path. Maybe I've strayed from the topic of the "Patient", but I do however believe that when one goes on a "spiritual journey" it's long and full of revelations and requires quite a lot of patience... ;)
:)
To the OP: I'd like to think Maynard isn't that condescending and that he too can remember the journey he's on and realize that it will never be over until it is. He would be a contradiction if he was not humble.
hmmm, interesting.. but i dont know if i'm ready to elevate Maynard to the level of a god.
well, maynard's at the very least a messenger and/or healer (see: caduceus, "born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending, to write it down for all the world to see", there's more). this track has sort of gone back to the drawing board, the interpretation presented above - something's off.
...... well i guess i dont have to make a new thread for "the patient". i was going to say the exact same thing. i agree with you 100%. im glad you and i are on the same page most of the time. i wish that more people would see/hear/experience the, what i think to be, real magic that comes from tool. i think tool is suppost to help you spiritually. ive been a lot more spiritual after listening to tool and i sure hope everyone does/will feel the same. i dont know about anyone else here but im sick and tired of sitting on my ass doing shit all. id rather expand my mind, activate my merkaba, and reach for 46 and 2.
sorry that i was a little late
I know what u mean... I feel it the same way after I start listening t TOOL... Now about 6 years ago o_0 ...and it was worth every minute...
__________________ We do not possess imagination enough to sense what we are missing. - Jean Toomer
I know what u mean... I feel it the same way after I start listening t TOOL... Now about 6 years ago o_0 ...and it was worth every minute...
for sure.... but, part of that post I made was a bit rude of me. I apologize. I didn't see it till now. People have their own way of seeing tool and I shouldn't have said how people should see tool.
I, too, have found Tool quite recently, and I like the way their music makes one think about things in new ways. That's really special. I don't think I've been so inspired by any other group, ever. This song made me think of reasons to stay in situations that may be harmful for you, ones motives to keep on "giving blood", and what that possible reward is, in the end... It's very interesting to read all these interpretations, of their music, and get new ideas, to pursue. *s* Nice place this is.. :)
This song is about Maynard taking care of his mother. The Patient is Maynard's mother. Plain & simple. Look at the lyrics. I can't really see it any other way. Everyone is reading into too much.
__________________ Debbie's smiling and waving her gun...
Picking off cheerleaders one by one
What's interesting to me is how a huge majority of Tool fans have come from more recent exposure to their music. I personally believe it's because our society is reaching a level of 'fight or flight' for happiness. The individuals who know material belongings are not going to give them internal happiness are starting to seek it out else where (inside). I speak only from experience, being in Real Estate for 9 years and making great money never fulfilled ‘that’ void I knew was there but I never knew what it was.
Until I was exposed to Tool but it wasn't immediate. I would jog to tool, cry to tool, and became completely compelled by their music. It wasn't until I watched a documentary on Alex Grey where he was describing a feeling that he had painted (his most popular painting, Theologue); I leaped out of my seat and screamed 'I have felt that before!' During a yoga session I was instructed to lay on my back with my palms to the ceiling and breath, everything around me disappeared, it felt like I was floating (no drugs were a part of this experience), no thoughts just nothingness. It has had to be one of the most peaceful experiences of my life, and that is what I call my ‘break through experience’. Since than I have done a lot of research to help my progression in understanding this concept, including coming into these forums and hearing all of your different opinions.
I will conclude that I believe that Tool’s music is a direct experience of the bands progression but is being used to help bring out our ‘inner self’ or spirit. Just as Tool and Alex Grey has done for me.
I agree with alot of what you guys are saying, and at least respect the different takes on it.
I've thought for five or so years on this one. I will spare you all a line by line breakdown.
But I think maybe some people (as we all do tend to do here), are reading a bit more into it than what is there.
I think it's an objective song simply about being patient. Many different interpretations can therefore fit pretty well.
I believe the title is a clever and humerous double entedre about what it takes to be "the patient", and how, at times being intensely patient can almost drive you insane, therefore maybe causing you to be "the patient" (in a clinical sense).
The "tedious path he's chosen here" is/are 1. Just remaining alive on a day to day basis, and 2. the recording industry
I think the song is about the patience it takes to create their music (or do anything of high craftsmanship and quality), and also a reference to the lawsuit they were undergoing after Aenema, while waiting to record Lateralus.
The loving embrace, and rewards to reap are the gifts your patience will obtain you, with a little luck and alot of effort.
It's sort of an epilogue to Stinkfist in this respect - boredom's not a burden anyone should bear (so get up and go do something creative and proactive!), and you should try and be patient (with your craft and chosen path) and see where it gets you. Maynard is no God, he is merely a preacher. Not a whole lot more to it than that, in my humble opinion.
__________________ ( . )(.) zZzZzZzZzZz
Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 02-20-2008 at 03:33 PM..
it's tedious had I chosen here, I certainly would have walked away, by now...
Maybe it has something to do with his mother too, I can admit that (part of his at times obviously somewhat traumatic day to day life). At least the fact that he seems to constantly make references to clinical terms like patient and nurses and hospitals. I think the poor guy has been forced to spend alot of time around this environment, and it's had a dramatic effect on him.
Day lights dim leaving cold fluoresence...
Wings/10kd
The Patient
Passive
Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned
somewhat... Jimmy
The Nurse who Loved Me (not his words, but obviously there for a reason)
__________________ ( . )(.) zZzZzZzZzZz
Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 02-26-2008 at 08:57 AM..
Dudes,this track has some seriously awesome guitar work. Especially during the part when MJK is singing "...but I'm still right here, giving blood...".
Dudes,this track has some seriously awesome guitar work. Especially during the part when MJK is singing "...but I'm still right here, giving blood...".
My favorite part is near the end where he's singing lyrics but at the same time you hear the overlay of him also singing in the background "I must keep reminding myself of this"
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
My favorite part is near the end where he's singing lyrics but at the same time you hear the overlay of him also singing in the background "I must keep reminding myself of this"
QFT MAN. Hell yeah, that part hits my heart everytime.
The patient is probally MY most moving, inspriational song on Lateralus. Its meaning is pretty self explainatory and it does the job for me when I feel down on myself for whatever reasons.
__________________ Hey, Do you have a drinking problem?
"No, I pretty much got it figured out."
Dudes,this track has some seriously awesome guitar work. Especially during the part when MJK is singing "...but I'm still right here, giving blood...".
Yeah, I can play it pretty well... it is a very fun song to play, actually. For how simple it really is. It's one of the highpoints of Lateralus for me. From the first time I heard it...
Yeah those parts you guys are mentioning are amazing. Still gives me chills after thousands of listens.
Yeah, I can play it pretty well... it is a very fun song to play, actually. For how simple it really is. It's one of the highpoints of Lateralus for me. From the first time I heard it...
Yeah those parts you guys are mentioning are amazing. Still gives me chills after thousands of listens.
I just bought Guitar Hero III for the PS3 recently and I swear to Bob they better get some Tool tracks on there....that'd would be amazingly fucking awesome.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Maynard touched me with this song much like a kiss from a datura powder and gave me the lust for life "ie bvlood" that gives me the strenght to overcome this paralyzed coldness in my heart. I can only associate this feeling with that of my upbringing in a war ravaged country.
But don't let me trouble you with my reflections...
