Clarification - you ACCEPT Christ, not EXCEPT Christ.

Theres a TON of it -

First of all - Hallelujah is a Christian cry of praise. It translates roughly to "All hail the Lord".

Second - "Its time for you to bring me home" seems to refer to being again with his mother - who should be in heaven according to him.

Third - "This little light of mine / I'm going to let it shine" is a classic Christian child's song about displaying your faith in God. I used to sing it in Sunday school when I was like 6.... Maynard says that the light was "passed down to him" and that he would "let it shine"... and this is all within the song.

Fourthly - (and possibly the most convincing)

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?
High as a wave, but I'll rise on up off the ground.

He declares that his mother knew the way to Zion, and that anyone who does not follow her guidance will simply tremble incessantly when the judgement comes. Maynard himself declares that he will rise up off of the ground, to avoid the waters that have overrun... He is saying that HE will surpass those who "tremble incessantly"... if you put the contexts together, he is affirming that his mother's way is the correct one, and the he won't be left behind.

Need anymore? I have more if you want it.

First of all, he's using christian imagery to honour his mother.
second, you still haven't given me a line where maynard ACCEPTS jesus as his saviour.
Third, it's ironic that you would use this song to further rationalize your way into the arms of a savior.
To strengthen your faith.which is okay,because that's all you have on your beliefs.
it's ironic.

Omnitronic:

This is not necessarily in relation to the current topic, but you asked about a few books I might recommend which vaguely hit on the subject. I stress vaguely because their respective target discussions are quite different. But interesting reading in my opinion regardless, and maybe something that would interest you as well.

'The Bloodline of the Holy Grail' (don't recall the author, book's being borrowed at the moment) and 'The Lost Treasure of the Knights Templar' by Steven Sora. Again, I'd have to stress that neither of these two books are completely linked to the current topic. But would say however that they both hover around the topic of Christian religion quite a bit and are sure to bring up something worth thinking about more deeply.

'Bloodline' did seem a bit more demanding to me in the sense that one needs to buy into the arguements if they're to accept the information presented later on. If you can at least be willing to allow yourself to go on the ride to explore some new ideas, I at least found it to be interesting regardless of how truthful it may or may not be.

I suppose 'Lost Treasure' is somewhat the same way, but less so in regards to discussing religion at least. Since religion is not the central theme for that book anyways, Sora does a good job in my opinion of simply bringing up discussion points about religion and leaving it at that. They can be either accepted or dismissed by the reader without interfering too much with the mystery of Oak Island itself (the ultimate reason the book even exists). 'Lost Treasure' does offer some very compelling information about the discovery of the Americas as well as some intreguing thoughts on how our modern language used within mathematics and the sciences stems from ancient druidic God/Goddess worship. For those two reasons alone I'd recommend the book simply because information like that is fascinating to me.

LMAO. Nice!

Yes, but I think you meant more European rather than American since they are responsible for most representations of Christ in artwork. Nothing is original to America except Native Americans, or at least that history knows of.

On the same point you were trying to make earlier, I think it's funny that we give God "human" characterstics. We humans are so self important, like we are the most powerful being to ever exist because we were given opposable thumbs and a conscious mind. If there is a such thing as a higher power or "God" I don't think "it" has anything to do with a human. Let's face it, we are nothing in this universe really, nothing. Outiside of this earth (and how we are ruining it) we are little specs. "God" or whatever, is MUCH more than that.

Thanks man!

In both cases, you're taking the words as though Maynard is speaking in the first person, which he's not. In these particular lines he's speaking from his Mother's point of view. She would be the one saying Hallelujah, as well as the one saying it's time for God to bring her home.

It's a light given to him by his Mother in the sense that she gave birth to him, thereby granting him the ability to be witness to her life which he's now letting shine by virtue of this compelling testimonial. He is presuming that by doing so he might actually be serving to illuminate the fact that she is worthy of being granted access into heaven. I would not be at all surprised if it wasn't a more personal reference to a shared experience between himself and his Mother anyways, which would be more than enough reason to include it in this song. Because it is undeniably a classic Christian children's song, it's very reasonable to presume his Mother may have sung and/or taught it to Maynard as a child.

Except I don't believe the line is "I'll rise on up off the ground". I don't think he refers to himself here at all. In fact the very next set of lines begins with the phrase "You're the only one who can hold your head up high" referring to his Mother. She is clearly the one (the only one in fact) rising up above everyone else within the song, not Maynard. It's SOMEWHAT convincing if the line is what you say it is. But I don't think that's the actual line.

And before you might ask, I have not yet made up my mind what I feel that line actually is. Suffice to say, I don't hear what you're hearing so until that's the case, it's kind of hard to accept any opinion on that particular point as fact in the first place.

When I first listened, I heard...
High as a wave (refering to the rivers overrunning)
All eyes are upon the ground

Buddy Christ! lolol Yeah, you got it.

I am beginning to think that the sun, the big glowing ball, is actually the god people are talking about. Maybe its that simple?

Shit why not? I mean why is a spirit of a man chillin out in the heavans up above controlling the life of every creature all at once more believable than anything else?

'Listen to the tales as we ALL rationalize our way into the arms of the Saviour'

I too would much rather come to rational decision. To do that we need a rationalized conciousness, tempered by understanding and knowledge instead of emotional retaliation.

I refuse to read this entire thread, due to the overwhelming number of posts that are not, in fact, discussing the album. Believe what you will with regards to God, religion, etc, but to me the message in this album is clear. Maynard, though not devout or even religious, was obviously affected by his mother's faith and the example she set for him. Sometimes it seems to have frustrated him without limit, other times (as in much of Wings 1 & 2) he seems to admire her loyalty.

Will be back for more, but gotta go. Maynard's not a bible-thumper now, don't worry folks, LOL

Finally. Five days of trying to get someone to listen and study finally pays off. I read this post and nearly cried. Thank you Systolic.

Five years since lateralus, five years to absorb a masterpiece, to absorb a message of evolving consciousness,a message that points to the experience of your own true God-like nature, inner divinity, inner truth, devoid of dogmatic beliefs.
Five years to study and listen, hasn't payed off.
Hence, the reaction to this in the "blues" album 10,000 days.
Hence, Systolic's posts.

The line is not: "High as a wave, but I'll rise on upoff the ground". It is quite clearly "High is the way, but our eyes are upon the ground".

Also, to Omnitronic: What makes you think Jambi is written about maynard's son? just curious, I hadn't really considered that (as I don't know much about maynard's son).

I have to tend to agree with this post 100%. I dont think many people could have put it better, actually.

The battlecry of the blind believer. Ever so eager to take credit for a conversion that never actually happened. Anything that serves to affirm one's belief in the face of all opposing views, no matter how rational, logical, or even spiritually based they may be.

The true conversion taking place here is not that somebody has changed their previous thoughts on the subject at hand, but rather that an opinion already in agreement is being magically transfigured into a success story where previously there was none.

David Blaine has nothing on the sheer ego of a self-appointed teacher.

First of all just let me say this. I dont like christianity or anything it has to do with. But if that is what makes you happy then go for it. But being the pagan, occultist/studier of magick that i am, i rather find this whole dialogue disturbing and not for the reason you might think. I do not in any shape or form believe fo a second that maynard is trying to "preach" or "witness" anything. I mean have you even listened to undertow? Or opiate for that matter? Are you aware that danny carey is heavily into the occult? Have you seen those big mandala sigils that they have on stage with them? What do you think those are for? preaching the word of god? What do you think a lipan conjuring might be for? Summoning jesus? I think that this is just another christian trying to indoctrinate their agenda into every facet of society they can. Also you believe that anyone who doesnt believe is going to burn eternally. So i am going to burn for all eternity. As the originator of this forum has said tool is about questioning authority and thinking for yourself. I feel that christianity is the complete opposite of this. They preach nothing but complete and utter slavery to the master. It was a religion founded by slaves for slaves to give them something to hope for while being slaves. Oh yeah and if jesus even existed he had kids with mary magdalene. Thats what i think of your religious overtone theories in a tool song. I think the stryper forums are a couple of sites over.

Its ultimately all about what your perception of the song tells you... None of us will ever know what Maynard really thinks... so all we can do is speculate and reflect. This whole discussion is ultimately null and void anyway.

Just for the record - Just because I am Christian does not mean I am "blind". I've explored many systems of beliefs over the past few years, and it just so happens that I found security and stability in Christ. If you want to judge that then fine, but it doesn't make you smarter, or more enlightened than I am.

Just because someone claims to be Christian doesn't mean that they don't have respect for other religions or even have an open mind about different believes and practices. People who are going to mock the crap out of Christianity and then have the nerve to say what they believe is right, is a sad excuse for a human being, whether it be Wiccan, Buddhist, or Christian. . No one can really prove what is out there to another. We all just know what we feel, believe and know. It all comes down to respect!! It seems like those pointing the finger are more blind then anyone else.

Somehow I think that the point of this album has been missed by some of you. The theme seems to be unity, and instead, you guys are taking your own religions into your hands like weapons.... and cutting yourselves right in two.

How about let's just drop this stupid argument? If you think Maynard's a christian, that's fine, keep it to yourself and no one will make fun of you. If you disagree with that idea, don't be an ass to everyone else. They're just trying to find themselves in this album, just like everyone else. Let's be fair.

HAHA!! No doubt!! =)

Eulogy was written 10 years ago. People change over that long of a time. I know that 10 years ago, I was a very different person than I am today. Aren't you?

I'd sure hope so. We are all evolving everyday. Or at least we should be!! Great point!!

First of all - Hallelujah is a Christian cry of praise. It translates roughly to "All hail the Lord".

It actually roughly translates "All praise to Jah"... "Jah" which is short Yahweh or Jehovah... read the preface of any Bible and you might learn something about the word Lord.

And I forget who posted it, something-sentient... first, what was your point in quoting the lines from the greatest song ever written? second, you TOTALLY missed the point of the song... he wasn't trying to say heaven or hell doesn't exist, he meant "... if these things were no longer issues to FIGHT over"... tard.

Oh my god, you guys are still talking about this? Let it go.

Yeah, it definitely means "Annointed One."

Basically Aperfectnineinchtool has it right...you should judge Christianity solely by Jesus and His example, which no one can say wasn't awesome. As for the faith, you just have to come to it on your own terms and not listen to any hypocrites (the kind Maynard talks about in Wings/10,000 Days) on either side of the belief/unbelief fence. People ask me about how I can be a Tool fan and a Christian at the same time...I always say that it's simple: Jesus and Tool had similar messages...it's Jesus' followers who are the people who Tool speaks out against. As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, but not your Christians...your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Yes, it's a shame. We need more genuine people like Judith Marie.

I don't think you're wrong -- when I read this post I found I agree with what you said in this post mostly.

I have friends who refuse to listen to Tool; however, this doesn't bother me much. If they want to latch shut a majority of the many windows framed in their mind, let them do so. But I can't help but feel pity when I know that there is a better alternative to what they listen to. It may not be the right music -- after all, humans judge poorly on what's wrong and right -- but I do find music consisting constantly of nothing but overwrought guitar playing, talentless drumming that uses nothing but a fucking double-bass pedal, and vocals that sound as if a rusty dildo is being shoved up the lead singer's ass until it hits his heart and kills him somewhat of a lower form of music on the totem pole.

When it comes to a good majority of this post, I nod in agreement.

"crossed over" ???

Lol.

From the man's own mouth, to quote the original poster:

From the Boston Herald.

[QUOTE]Power Tool: Maynard James Keenan and band craft epic art-metal
By Brett Milano
Friday, May 19, 2006 - Updated: 11:55 AM EST

Somehow these don’t sound like the elements of a blockbuster album in 2006:
Dense, not-always-comprehensible lyrics. Long stretches of abstract white noise. Even longer stretches of prog-rock instrumental noodling. And for the centerpiece, an 18-minute suite about the death of the singer’s mother.
An album with chart success written all over it, right?
In Tool’s case, sure. The art-metal quartet, which plays a sold-out show at the Orpheum on Sunday, has never paid much attention to what’s commercial and it’s never hurt the band much. The new album, “10,000 Days,” is the band’s first in five years, an epic that’s even more deep and challenging than usual. It entered Billboard’s Top 200 at No. 1.


“The album, like most of our previous children, requires some focus,” singer Maynard James Keenan wrote in an e-mail interview. “The meat of this is best experienced in an intimate place and in its entirety - headphones, a long drive without distraction, a long flight. Treat it the same way you would treat a foreign film like ‘Wings of Desire’ or one of the American classics like ‘Taxi Driver’ or ‘Apocalpyse Now.’We play the role of writers, directors, directors of photography, art/props and finally editors, which anyone who works in the film industry will tell you is the most crucial part of filmmaking.”
As for what Tool’s success says about the business, “I’m not sure,” Keenan said. “This is a fickle business. You can’t count on anything, so we don’t. We just stick to what we know, adjust/adapt to what we’ve learned, and do what feels and seems right.”
On Tool’s last tour that meant having art-rock legend King Crimson open for it - a move that fed the idea of Tool as a modern-day progressive band.
“As far as the prog references go, we embrace them,” Keenan said. “However, we would prefer our new moniker, which is a Mulligan stew of progressive rock, Bulgarian folk metal, rock ’n’ roll, ’80s disco and Christian rap that we like to call Munge.”
Such jokes are in short supply on the often somber “10,000 Days,” whose title refers to the length of time Keenan’s mother was paralyzed after a stroke. An elegy for his mother, the 18-minute “Wings for Marie” is as strong a piece as Tool ever produced, though so far it hasn’t turned up on the band’s set list. Its almost-religious feel is surprising, given the disdain Keenan has voiced for organized religion in the past.

“Most people confuse religion with spirituality,” he explained. “This is of course based on my opinion based on the hypocrisy I experienced firsthand growing up in Ohio as a Southern Baptist. The sense of frustration I experienced tends to seep out in the stories I tell. And no, I have not made peace with it. Fundamentalists on all fronts are possessed and driven by the lies of demons. And not the scary ones of a biblical nature. Actual demons like ignorance, apathy, greed, racism, fear, and Barney.”
For all that, the songs on “10,000 Days” have relatively little obvious political content, something Keenan tends to save for his other band, A Perfect Circle. But he says it’s there on Tool’s album, just less blatantly so.
“My own military background seems to be a forgotten element these days,” Keenan pointed out. “I’m not sure I know any musicians currently working in the business who received an appointment to West Point. That’s most likely why every album I’ve done with Tool and APC has strong political content.
“It seems because we aren’t shouting names and pointing from a soapbox, we aren’t seen as being political - far from it. Expressing individual and social politics is the more difficult path. We’re attempting to inspire conscious thought as opposed to telling people what to think.”[QUOTE]

I think that pretty much sums up where he is, considering spirutality and religion. But he has always said the same thing. Just a guy like you and me trying to find his way.
"Crossed over"....god, I hope all the Xtian folks don't start believing he is going to ask P.O.D to open for them. Lol.

Sort of explains "The Pot", doesn't it?

[QUOTE=Garguantua]"crossed over" ???

Lol.

From the man's own mouth, to quote the original poster:

From the Boston Herald.

[QUOTE]Power Tool: Maynard James Keenan and band craft epic art-metal
By Brett Milano
Friday, May 19, 2006 - Updated: 11:55 AM EST

Somehow these don’t sound like the elements of a blockbuster album in 2006:
Dense, not-always-comprehensible lyrics. Long stretches of abstract white noise. Even longer stretches of prog-rock instrumental noodling. And for the centerpiece, an 18-minute suite about the death of the singer’s mother.
An album with chart success written all over it, right?
In Tool’s case, sure. The art-metal quartet, which plays a sold-out show at the Orpheum on Sunday, has never paid much attention to what’s commercial and it’s never hurt the band much. The new album, “10,000 Days,” is the band’s first in five years, an epic that’s even more deep and challenging than usual. It entered Billboard’s Top 200 at No. 1.


“The album, like most of our previous children, requires some focus,” singer Maynard James Keenan wrote in an e-mail interview. “The meat of this is best experienced in an intimate place and in its entirety - headphones, a long drive without distraction, a long flight. Treat it the same way you would treat a foreign film like ‘Wings of Desire’ or one of the American classics like ‘Taxi Driver’ or ‘Apocalpyse Now.’We play the role of writers, directors, directors of photography, art/props and finally editors, which anyone who works in the film industry will tell you is the most crucial part of filmmaking.”
As for what Tool’s success says about the business, “I’m not sure,” Keenan said. “This is a fickle business. You can’t count on anything, so we don’t. We just stick to what we know, adjust/adapt to what we’ve learned, and do what feels and seems right.”
On Tool’s last tour that meant having art-rock legend King Crimson open for it - a move that fed the idea of Tool as a modern-day progressive band.
“As far as the prog references go, we embrace them,” Keenan said. “However, we would prefer our new moniker, which is a Mulligan stew of progressive rock, Bulgarian folk metal, rock ’n’ roll, ’80s disco and Christian rap that we like to call Munge.”
Such jokes are in short supply on the often somber “10,000 Days,” whose title refers to the length of time Keenan’s mother was paralyzed after a stroke. An elegy for his mother, the 18-minute “Wings for Marie” is as strong a piece as Tool ever produced, though so far it hasn’t turned up on the band’s set list. Its almost-religious feel is surprising, given the disdain Keenan has voiced for organized religion in the past.

“Most people confuse religion with spirituality,” he explained. “This is of course based on my opinion based on the hypocrisy I experienced firsthand growing up in Ohio as a Southern Baptist. The sense of frustration I experienced tends to seep out in the stories I tell. And no, I have not made peace with it. Fundamentalists on all fronts are possessed and driven by the lies of demons. And not the scary ones of a biblical nature. Actual demons like ignorance, apathy, greed, racism, fear, and Barney.”
For all that, the songs on “10,000 Days” have relatively little obvious political content, something Keenan tends to save for his other band, A Perfect Circle. But he says it’s there on Tool’s album, just less blatantly so.
“My own military background seems to be a forgotten element these days,” Keenan pointed out. “I’m not sure I know any musicians currently working in the business who received an appointment to West Point. That’s most likely why every album I’ve done with Tool and APC has strong political content.
“It seems because we aren’t shouting names and pointing from a soapbox, we aren’t seen as being political - far from it. Expressing individual and social politics is the more difficult path. We’re attempting to inspire conscious thought as opposed to telling people what to think.”This has shed some light.
but not new light.
thanx

He witnessed for a creator on Lateralus in "reflection"

kin

What?