|
|
05-14-2006, 01:21 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Through all the years I've been listening to Tool I never thought I would hear what I'm hearing on 10,000 Days. Completely out of the question, but here is it from Maynards own mouth.
Ladies and gentlemen and undefinable, Maynard James Keenan is witnessing for the word of God. There's a truck load of proof I can give for this, but in true Tool fashion I want you to use your brain and find it for yourself. Now, let me whet your appetite and set you on your way.
We all know that Judith Marie was a devout Christian, and if here life wasn't a lie ('she never lived a lie') then her life must haven been true.
There are many more of these little gems. Listen, study and think, Tool has always tried to encourage you to do that.
|
I am an athiest, but I say this from a perspective that is willing to accept any interpretation.
I don't mean to be a jerk, but I could not utterly disagree more. First, if your 'possible proof' consists of heavenly imagery (angels, heaven, Him, God) that doesn't mean anything necessarily beyond a literary function. More importantly, the song 10,000 days is about him accepting his mother's relgious beliefs as something meaningful to her not as something true. Read the lyrcs and the forums. He is still fed up with the 'congregation' and he is still in his 'stuborn ways.' In every song about human failure (vicarious jambi right in two) the answer is either offered or implied in human terms- not religious ones. (I don't mean to be insulting, but I respectly think...) I am sorry but i think that people come up with your interp are just conflating his spiritual/poststructural/existential/radically acid and philosophy of art influenced beliefs with somehting dogmatic like 'religion'
__________________
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. My pleasures are the most intense known to man: writing and butterfly hunting." - Nabokov
"And yet be clearly aware of the stars and infinity on high. Then life seems almost enchanted after all." - van Gogh
05-14-2006, 01:21 AM
|
#201
|
|
Alive With Signs and Stars
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC for School Austin Tx is home
Posts: 10,169
Bincount™: 548
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Through all the years I've been listening to Tool I never thought I would hear what I'm hearing on 10,000 Days. Completely out of the question, but here is it from Maynards own mouth.
Ladies and gentlemen and undefinable, Maynard James Keenan is witnessing for the word of God. There's a truck load of proof I can give for this, but in true Tool fashion I want you to use your brain and find it for yourself. Now, let me whet your appetite and set you on your way.
We all know that Judith Marie was a devout Christian, and if here life wasn't a lie ('she never lived a lie') then her life must haven been true.
There are many more of these little gems. Listen, study and think, Tool has always tried to encourage you to do that.
|
I am an athiest, but I say this from a perspective that is willing to accept any interpretation.
I don't mean to be a jerk, but I could not utterly disagree more. First, if your 'possible proof' consists of heavenly imagery (angels, heaven, Him, God) that doesn't mean anything necessarily beyond a literary function. More importantly, the song 10,000 days is about him accepting his mother's relgious beliefs as something meaningful to her not as something true. Read the lyrcs and the forums. He is still fed up with the 'congregation' and he is still in his 'stuborn ways.' In every song about human failure (vicarious jambi right in two) the answer is either offered or implied in human terms- not religious ones. (I don't mean to be insulting, but I respectly think...) I am sorry but i think that people come up with your interp are just conflating his spiritual/poststructural/existential/radically acid and philosophy of art influenced beliefs with somehting dogmatic like 'religion'
__________________
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. My pleasures are the most intense known to man: writing and butterfly hunting." - Nabokov
"And yet be clearly aware of the stars and infinity on high. Then life seems almost enchanted after all." - van Gogh
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 05:48 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by paraflux
There is much I do not know. But at least I am willing to admit that nothing will be kept from me if I search for it, and that any limitations I have are because I set them myself. Silence my drivel? You know nothing about me or my experiences. You could not have possible known that my father and grandfather were both ministers. So I know what I'm talking about. Something I cannot stand is trying to talk to overzealous teenagers about Christianity. They simply have no experience, making them lean heavily upon two things, their ideals, and what they have been told. So, out here in the "Outerdark," I commune, my way.
As I said, you're a fool for thinking you know anything about me.
Then we are on the same side after all. Perhaps one of us just cannot see it.
Indeed it is.
|
Just because your father and grandfather were ministers doesn't mean anything... doesn't mean that YOU know what your talking about. My friend, who is much older and wiser than I am, his father was a baptist minister since he could remember, and HE, the minister admitted that the Bible's teachings were forgien to him. Just because someone went to school and became a preacher or minister or pastor means nothing unless they have accurate knowledge.
|
05-14-2006, 05:48 AM
|
#202
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by paraflux
There is much I do not know. But at least I am willing to admit that nothing will be kept from me if I search for it, and that any limitations I have are because I set them myself. Silence my drivel? You know nothing about me or my experiences. You could not have possible known that my father and grandfather were both ministers. So I know what I'm talking about. Something I cannot stand is trying to talk to overzealous teenagers about Christianity. They simply have no experience, making them lean heavily upon two things, their ideals, and what they have been told. So, out here in the "Outerdark," I commune, my way.
As I said, you're a fool for thinking you know anything about me.
Then we are on the same side after all. Perhaps one of us just cannot see it.
Indeed it is.
|
Just because your father and grandfather were ministers doesn't mean anything... doesn't mean that YOU know what your talking about. My friend, who is much older and wiser than I am, his father was a baptist minister since he could remember, and HE, the minister admitted that the Bible's teachings were forgien to him. Just because someone went to school and became a preacher or minister or pastor means nothing unless they have accurate knowledge. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 05:52 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by paraflux
I disagree with christianity 100%, yet not the example of Christ. I just think christians have it all wrong. And I have that right, and I have already risked my salvation, and it was worth it because I came out on top as I knew I would.
Then if you know all, you know there are as many paths to the source you described as there are people. If you are basing your mindset on experience, thats fine, thats where you need to be right now. I will never say you are wrong.
|
How could you deny the example of Christ when he was "a perfect reflection of his father"? You're a retard, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. And some people are just more impassioned than some, which sometimes can lead to unbecoming behavior such as vehemently defending your faith.
|
05-14-2006, 05:52 AM
|
#203
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by paraflux
I disagree with christianity 100%, yet not the example of Christ. I just think christians have it all wrong. And I have that right, and I have already risked my salvation, and it was worth it because I came out on top as I knew I would.
Then if you know all, you know there are as many paths to the source you described as there are people. If you are basing your mindset on experience, thats fine, thats where you need to be right now. I will never say you are wrong.
|
How could you deny the example of Christ when he was "a perfect reflection of his father"? You're a retard, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. And some people are just more impassioned than some, which sometimes can lead to unbecoming behavior such as vehemently defending your faith. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 05:59 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.
Peace.
|
you fricking hit the nail right on the head... awesome, and yes that is they only word I know... bending, very good. and there are some who listen, I was one of them...
|
05-14-2006, 05:59 AM
|
#204
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.
Peace.
|
you fricking hit the nail right on the head... awesome, and yes that is they only word I know... bending, very good. and there are some who listen, I was one of them... |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
How could you deny the example of Christ when he was "a perfect reflection of his father"? You're a retard, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. And some people are just more impassioned than some, which sometimes can lead to unbecoming behavior such as vehemently defending your faith.
|
Who is denying that? You are making so many assumptions about me that I am forced to ask who is being retarded. I deny christianity and its poisonous stagnant dogma. I dont know if Christ existed, but the story remains the same and I know the story of him is an example of what is to come after man, hence all the Son of Man references that Christ gives himself. I dont know where your post came from.
|
05-14-2006, 06:03 AM
|
#205
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
How could you deny the example of Christ when he was "a perfect reflection of his father"? You're a retard, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. And some people are just more impassioned than some, which sometimes can lead to unbecoming behavior such as vehemently defending your faith.
|
Who is denying that? You are making so many assumptions about me that I am forced to ask who is being retarded. I deny christianity and its poisonous stagnant dogma. I dont know if Christ existed, but the story remains the same and I know the story of him is an example of what is to come after man, hence all the Son of Man references that Christ gives himself. I dont know where your post came from. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.
Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
|
Why do you expect open arms when you've killed more people than you've "saved?" Why do you expect people to be nice when you cant even hold a conversation without being condescending, telling people they are lost, you'll pray for them, etc. Please.
|
05-14-2006, 06:06 AM
|
#206
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.
Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
|
Why do you expect open arms when you've killed more people than you've "saved?" Why do you expect people to be nice when you cant even hold a conversation without being condescending, telling people they are lost, you'll pray for them, etc. Please. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by meatchunk
A Double standard towards righteousness compounded by the path of least resistance.
|
I did need an early morning lol. Thanks.
The path of least resistance is turning off your mind, not using it.
|
05-14-2006, 06:07 AM
|
#207
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by meatchunk
A Double standard towards righteousness compounded by the path of least resistance.
|
I did need an early morning lol. Thanks.
The path of least resistance is turning off your mind, not using it. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by meatchunk
Agreed!!! And just remember, every religion has a story about the unbeaten path. Stick to it and you should do fine.
|
So when its safe to compare religions, you do?
And this post could have been directed at me, as well. I'll stick to my unbeaten path as well.
|
05-14-2006, 06:09 AM
|
#208
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by meatchunk
Agreed!!! And just remember, every religion has a story about the unbeaten path. Stick to it and you should do fine.
|
So when its safe to compare religions, you do?
And this post could have been directed at me, as well. I'll stick to my unbeaten path as well. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by drenei
Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)
|
But see, they are saying that you cannot experience spirituality unless you do it like they do. That they have the corner on the salvation market.
|
05-14-2006, 06:10 AM
|
#209
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by drenei
Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)
|
But see, they are saying that you cannot experience spirituality unless you do it like they do. That they have the corner on the salvation market. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.
Peace.
|
Balls, yes, it takes balls to conform into a drone spouting the same shit over and over without realizing that the world has moved on.
|
05-14-2006, 06:11 AM
|
#210
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.
Peace.
|
Balls, yes, it takes balls to conform into a drone spouting the same shit over and over without realizing that the world has moved on. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*
you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
|
Oh, you must not have heard, God said it was ok to use wrath as a witnessing tool, we just cant find where.
|
05-14-2006, 06:12 AM
|
#211
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*
you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
|
Oh, you must not have heard, God said it was ok to use wrath as a witnessing tool, we just cant find where. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 06:13 AM
The Lateralus album was saturated with Buddhist and Pagan references in the songs and videos, that never meant Maynard was preaching the Dharma. Maynard is simply using a religious undertone to express what he and his mother felt like, not to preach the word of God. Maynard wouldn't ever want to lead you along like that, he's said so himself. He doesn't put lyrics in the books so you can figure stuff out for yourself, instead of figuring it out for you. If the answer were as obvious as "he's preaching Christ" then half of us wouldn't be here.
|
05-14-2006, 06:13 AM
|
#212
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
The Lateralus album was saturated with Buddhist and Pagan references in the songs and videos, that never meant Maynard was preaching the Dharma. Maynard is simply using a religious undertone to express what he and his mother felt like, not to preach the word of God. Maynard wouldn't ever want to lead you along like that, he's said so himself. He doesn't put lyrics in the books so you can figure stuff out for yourself, instead of figuring it out for you. If the answer were as obvious as "he's preaching Christ" then half of us wouldn't be here.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
I am suprised. Very much. I always thought Tool fostered a minset of quiet contemplation and then surging energy and always open mindedness. I assumed (yeah, yeah) that ideas would be openly shared here not bashed on and dismissed out right, but i was wrong. Kudos to those who weigh in with your higher brain functions, though.
|
Quiet contemplation, yes. Surging energy, definitely. Open mindedness, sure.
None of the things that you have displayed. You came in with condescension and it all went downhill from there, and its hilarious that you think that this is using your higher brain functions. Hilarious, yet very sad.
|
05-14-2006, 06:14 AM
|
#213
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
I am suprised. Very much. I always thought Tool fostered a minset of quiet contemplation and then surging energy and always open mindedness. I assumed (yeah, yeah) that ideas would be openly shared here not bashed on and dismissed out right, but i was wrong. Kudos to those who weigh in with your higher brain functions, though.
|
Quiet contemplation, yes. Surging energy, definitely. Open mindedness, sure.
None of the things that you have displayed. You came in with condescension and it all went downhill from there, and its hilarious that you think that this is using your higher brain functions. Hilarious, yet very sad. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by implandnoises
Sorry, I have been out of this loop for such a period that it has grown three pages, but I must go back to this post and re-address the "heart of stone" issue. You are being disturbingly presumptuous here and also with your characterisation of paraflux. It seems that you are unwilling to take my character on face value (as little face as I have revealed) but rather would present me as something that you once were, simply because I am not what you are now. You say it is because we are all born selfish and apparently can only rid ourselves of that through Christ. Your rule book says that is the way things are, so it is unnecessary for you to actually come to know me as another human being to witness the possible virtue of my character. Instead, your rules say that it is plain that I must have a selfish heart because I clearly have not done what is needed to transform it.
This is a good example of how beliefs divide people. You are unwilling to accept that I may actually be a good person with pure intentions if I am not of your chosen group. I must change to your prescribed result for you to accept me as a person who is healthy, selfless and worthy(or suitably unworthy if you want to talk about my unending sinfulness). My actions in my relations with others are kind and honourable to a high degree that I hold as most sensibly important. And it is important. We are a world at war. One must be vigilant in their actions to ensure virtue is at their core and is emanating to the world. I do not act nice in an attempt to secure my place in heaven, that is foolish and false. I am not interested in my conclusion or inclusion, I am concerned with our wellbeing, not only at this critical time in history but for any time (as, clearly, one thing leads to another). We are at war with one another - or so most of choose - and beliefs are at the centre of our reason for this. It is inevitable, if I was to choose to centre my thoughts on a belief system, such as Christianity for example, then I would feel the need to partake in this war in some way. Of course, it would make perfect sense then. Then I could base my decisions on the teachings of others through history who too have waged wars and have experience with this kind of thing. It would become important which side I chose, which course of action I would take to encourage these people here or discourage these people there. I am not saying that you would fight because you are Christian and thats what your beliefs tell you - I don't know that about you. But I am sure you would do something, something that you believe to be right according to the most wise and almighty. And this action, whatever it may be, will be inevitably in conflict with the thoughts and actions of those who hold a different set of beliefs, in this case namely Muslims. That conflict is impossible to resolve while the beliefs still exist and that is why, over time, this conflict has evolved into the crisis that it is now. These things are clear if one looks at them from an unsullied viewpoint. That viewpoint, unfortunatly, is difficult to achieve, especially when one is caught up in the rapture of organised religion. But, as I have said many times on this thread, it is important, vitally important.
|
I dig this post. I doubt it will be addressed.
|
05-14-2006, 06:16 AM
|
#214
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by implandnoises
Sorry, I have been out of this loop for such a period that it has grown three pages, but I must go back to this post and re-address the "heart of stone" issue. You are being disturbingly presumptuous here and also with your characterisation of paraflux. It seems that you are unwilling to take my character on face value (as little face as I have revealed) but rather would present me as something that you once were, simply because I am not what you are now. You say it is because we are all born selfish and apparently can only rid ourselves of that through Christ. Your rule book says that is the way things are, so it is unnecessary for you to actually come to know me as another human being to witness the possible virtue of my character. Instead, your rules say that it is plain that I must have a selfish heart because I clearly have not done what is needed to transform it.
This is a good example of how beliefs divide people. You are unwilling to accept that I may actually be a good person with pure intentions if I am not of your chosen group. I must change to your prescribed result for you to accept me as a person who is healthy, selfless and worthy(or suitably unworthy if you want to talk about my unending sinfulness). My actions in my relations with others are kind and honourable to a high degree that I hold as most sensibly important. And it is important. We are a world at war. One must be vigilant in their actions to ensure virtue is at their core and is emanating to the world. I do not act nice in an attempt to secure my place in heaven, that is foolish and false. I am not interested in my conclusion or inclusion, I am concerned with our wellbeing, not only at this critical time in history but for any time (as, clearly, one thing leads to another). We are at war with one another - or so most of choose - and beliefs are at the centre of our reason for this. It is inevitable, if I was to choose to centre my thoughts on a belief system, such as Christianity for example, then I would feel the need to partake in this war in some way. Of course, it would make perfect sense then. Then I could base my decisions on the teachings of others through history who too have waged wars and have experience with this kind of thing. It would become important which side I chose, which course of action I would take to encourage these people here or discourage these people there. I am not saying that you would fight because you are Christian and thats what your beliefs tell you - I don't know that about you. But I am sure you would do something, something that you believe to be right according to the most wise and almighty. And this action, whatever it may be, will be inevitably in conflict with the thoughts and actions of those who hold a different set of beliefs, in this case namely Muslims. That conflict is impossible to resolve while the beliefs still exist and that is why, over time, this conflict has evolved into the crisis that it is now. These things are clear if one looks at them from an unsullied viewpoint. That viewpoint, unfortunatly, is difficult to achieve, especially when one is caught up in the rapture of organised religion. But, as I have said many times on this thread, it is important, vitally important.
|
I dig this post. I doubt it will be addressed. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
Just because your father and grandfather were ministers doesn't mean anything... doesn't mean that YOU know what your talking about. My friend, who is much older and wiser than I am, his father was a baptist minister since he could remember, and HE, the minister admitted that the Bible's teachings were forgien to him. Just because someone went to school and became a preacher or minister or pastor means nothing unless they have accurate knowledge.
|
Well, tell me what I need to do to prove that I know what Im talking about. Should I continue in this thread, it should become obvious.
|
05-14-2006, 06:17 AM
|
#215
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
Just because your father and grandfather were ministers doesn't mean anything... doesn't mean that YOU know what your talking about. My friend, who is much older and wiser than I am, his father was a baptist minister since he could remember, and HE, the minister admitted that the Bible's teachings were forgien to him. Just because someone went to school and became a preacher or minister or pastor means nothing unless they have accurate knowledge.
|
Well, tell me what I need to do to prove that I know what Im talking about. Should I continue in this thread, it should become obvious. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 06:38 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.
|
Actually the authorship of these books is known to be anonymous. It has been ascribed to various apostles by churches.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
What about this do you not understand? God might as well have stood in the same room with John and dictated the entire book of revelation to him.
Subjective process? Puh! Presided over by man? Puhuh! The Holy Spirit stood at the front of that table, gavel in hand. All man did was the leg work.
|
The New Testament canon as it is now was first listed by St. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in 367, in a letter written to his churches in Egypt. That canon gained wider and wider recognition until it was accepted by all at the Third Council of Carthage in 397. Even this council did not settle the matter, however. I am sorry, but how is this not a subjective process carried out by men?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The scientific community will debate something just to keep if from becoming accepted fact. Just like court appeals, they do it all the time. But the findings are conclusive. The Gnostic Gospels were penned centuries after the life of Christ by people who never knew him. The Canon Gospels were penned a few years after His death by eyewitnesses who did know Him.
|
By that logic, why did you use the carbon dating results as proof that they were a hoax? Yes they may have been written in the 2nd century, but it is theorized that they were passed down orally for years. The Coptic manuscript was a recording of the teaching. And the findings are not conclusive. They are still being debated. Some scholars put the authored date as preceding the canonized gospels. And yes, science debates things into the ground. That is the process of the discipline. The point of science is not to prove that things exist, but to prove that they don't.
|
05-14-2006, 06:38 AM
|
#216
|
|
Level 11 - Clamorous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Inside the ant hill
Posts: 3,153
Bincount™: 362
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.
|
Actually the authorship of these books is known to be anonymous. It has been ascribed to various apostles by churches.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
What about this do you not understand? God might as well have stood in the same room with John and dictated the entire book of revelation to him.
Subjective process? Puh! Presided over by man? Puhuh! The Holy Spirit stood at the front of that table, gavel in hand. All man did was the leg work.
|
The New Testament canon as it is now was first listed by St. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in 367, in a letter written to his churches in Egypt. That canon gained wider and wider recognition until it was accepted by all at the Third Council of Carthage in 397. Even this council did not settle the matter, however. I am sorry, but how is this not a subjective process carried out by men?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The scientific community will debate something just to keep if from becoming accepted fact. Just like court appeals, they do it all the time. But the findings are conclusive. The Gnostic Gospels were penned centuries after the life of Christ by people who never knew him. The Canon Gospels were penned a few years after His death by eyewitnesses who did know Him.
|
By that logic, why did you use the carbon dating results as proof that they were a hoax? Yes they may have been written in the 2nd century, but it is theorized that they were passed down orally for years. The Coptic manuscript was a recording of the teaching. And the findings are not conclusive. They are still being debated. Some scholars put the authored date as preceding the canonized gospels. And yes, science debates things into the ground. That is the process of the discipline. The point of science is not to prove that things exist, but to prove that they don't. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 07:13 AM
It is my belief that God and only God has 'the corner on the salvation market'. It is also my belief that we are all lost and without a shepard until Christ recieves us. It is my belief that I am called by God to bring that good news to other people.
Paraflux, i had not made any negative comments about anyone else's faith until i responded to you. All i had done is correct the many, many, many untruths that people spout about my faith. I was not involved in any, thats ANY, murders. Ever. You direct that at me as if you know me. Are you guilty of the same assumptions you have charged others with? Did you know that Christ taught tolerance. Did you know that I try my absolute hardest to follow those teachings. Did you also notice the many occasions that Christ responded with anger and wrath. I'm not going to tell you where, its not my responsibility to read the Bible for you. Im sorry you think im telling you that you can't be spiritual unless you do it my way, that is not my intention. I accept, as part of my faith, the existance of other spiritual beings; we call them demons. It is your God given right of free will to commune with whatever you like.
By sharing this with all of you for the last few days, I've opened myself to vulnerability.
I came hoping that I could show someone a better way then just lonelyness or hopelessness, that was my aim. Im not telling any of you this to make you feel bad or pitty me, im tell you so you might understand a true Christian's sincerity.
I am very troubled by what you say. You say i 'came in with condesension'. Im not looking for a debate, but if i think you are wrong about me i'll say so. Please show me the condesension i've projected, so that i can strive to be better.
Let this be last time we cross this argument because there's obviously no agreeing on either part. implandnioses, i am willing to accept that you WANT to be a good person.
Do not think that i do not remember myself before Christ. I was the one who would come to work all weekend every weekend so other didn't have to. I was the one who took a curbie with me to work and payed him fifty dollars at the end of the day, more then half of what i made. That same displaced person needed a shower and a good meal, I gave that to him. I couldn't begin to list all the well intended and (nearly) selfless things I've done, but that one stood out to me. All before Christ, but then i did it because it made me feel good to help. Now i do it just because help is needed, even if i dread doing it and complain to myself about it.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
Last edited by HeavenLost; 05-14-2006 at 07:27 AM..
|
05-14-2006, 07:13 AM
|
#217
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
It is my belief that God and only God has 'the corner on the salvation market'. It is also my belief that we are all lost and without a shepard until Christ recieves us. It is my belief that I am called by God to bring that good news to other people.
Paraflux, i had not made any negative comments about anyone else's faith until i responded to you. All i had done is correct the many, many, many untruths that people spout about my faith. I was not involved in any, thats ANY, murders. Ever. You direct that at me as if you know me. Are you guilty of the same assumptions you have charged others with? Did you know that Christ taught tolerance. Did you know that I try my absolute hardest to follow those teachings. Did you also notice the many occasions that Christ responded with anger and wrath. I'm not going to tell you where, its not my responsibility to read the Bible for you. Im sorry you think im telling you that you can't be spiritual unless you do it my way, that is not my intention. I accept, as part of my faith, the existance of other spiritual beings; we call them demons. It is your God given right of free will to commune with whatever you like.
By sharing this with all of you for the last few days, I've opened myself to vulnerability.
I came hoping that I could show someone a better way then just lonelyness or hopelessness, that was my aim. Im not telling any of you this to make you feel bad or pitty me, im tell you so you might understand a true Christian's sincerity.
I am very troubled by what you say. You say i 'came in with condesension'. Im not looking for a debate, but if i think you are wrong about me i'll say so. Please show me the condesension i've projected, so that i can strive to be better.
Let this be last time we cross this argument because there's obviously no agreeing on either part. implandnioses, i am willing to accept that you WANT to be a good person.
Do not think that i do not remember myself before Christ. I was the one who would come to work all weekend every weekend so other didn't have to. I was the one who took a curbie with me to work and payed him fifty dollars at the end of the day, more then half of what i made. That same displaced person needed a shower and a good meal, I gave that to him. I couldn't begin to list all the well intended and (nearly) selfless things I've done, but that one stood out to me. All before Christ, but then i did it because it made me feel good to help. Now i do it just because help is needed, even if i dread doing it and complain to myself about it.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
Last edited by HeavenLost; 05-14-2006 at 07:27 AM..
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
It is my belief that God and only God has 'the corner on the salvation market'.
|
Then stop trying to tell me I am lost, if only he and I could know. That's all.
|
05-14-2006, 08:24 AM
|
#218
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
It is my belief that God and only God has 'the corner on the salvation market'.
|
Then stop trying to tell me I am lost, if only he and I could know. That's all. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 08:25 AM
Stop saying things.
|
05-14-2006, 08:25 AM
|
#219
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Stop saying things.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 10:23 AM
Paraflux. I wonder how long my quote shall be in your signature?
just wondering...
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
05-14-2006, 10:23 AM
|
#220
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Paraflux. I wonder how long my quote shall be in your signature?
just wondering...
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Well it becomes a rant again. I'll try to drag it back on track.
The WHOLE point of this is to see the connections from Tool to Christianity. Someone doesn't tell you they were saved from 'the devil and his own' by a 'benevolent son' who 'changed that all for me. lifted me up, turned me round' and not mean Christ. Lifting you up and turning you around, bringing out of darkness; all that is what Christ does. Maynard leaves no room for debate in that.
|
Yeah we get the point, you can take bits and pieces of a song and make them fit into your ideology...just like you can make parts of the bible justify anything you do. Like fight wars, murder, etc. Godamn christians
|
05-14-2006, 10:32 AM
|
#221
|
|
Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: michigan
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Well it becomes a rant again. I'll try to drag it back on track.
The WHOLE point of this is to see the connections from Tool to Christianity. Someone doesn't tell you they were saved from 'the devil and his own' by a 'benevolent son' who 'changed that all for me. lifted me up, turned me round' and not mean Christ. Lifting you up and turning you around, bringing out of darkness; all that is what Christ does. Maynard leaves no room for debate in that.
|
Yeah we get the point, you can take bits and pieces of a song and make them fit into your ideology...just like you can make parts of the bible justify anything you do. Like fight wars, murder, etc. Godamn christians |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 11:00 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theninja
Yeah we get the point, you can take bits and pieces of a song and make them fit into your ideology...just like you can make parts of the bible justify anything you do. Like fight wars, murder, etc. Godamn christians
|
Just let me correct you there, theninja. For one who is a Brother to Christ, there is no taking bits of the Bible. Our ideology becomes the Bible, all of it. It has to be taken in total or there is no faith or trust, only more self-gratification.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
05-14-2006, 11:00 AM
|
#222
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theninja
Yeah we get the point, you can take bits and pieces of a song and make them fit into your ideology...just like you can make parts of the bible justify anything you do. Like fight wars, murder, etc. Godamn christians
|
Just let me correct you there, theninja. For one who is a Brother to Christ, there is no taking bits of the Bible. Our ideology becomes the Bible, all of it. It has to be taken in total or there is no faith or trust, only more self-gratification.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Just let me correct you there, theninja. For one who is a Brother to Christ, there is no taking bits of the Bible. Our ideology becomes the Bible, all of it. It has to be taken in total or there is no faith or trust, only more self-gratification.
|
your faith is self gratification, as is in a sense, your preaching. I am sorry i wasted so much of my time reading most of these posts. I could never change your faith and it would be nice if you wouldnt try to change other's as well.
|
05-14-2006, 11:07 AM
|
#223
|
|
Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: michigan
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Just let me correct you there, theninja. For one who is a Brother to Christ, there is no taking bits of the Bible. Our ideology becomes the Bible, all of it. It has to be taken in total or there is no faith or trust, only more self-gratification.
|
your faith is self gratification, as is in a sense, your preaching. I am sorry i wasted so much of my time reading most of these posts. I could never change your faith and it would be nice if you wouldnt try to change other's as well. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Paraflux. I wonder how long my quote shall be in your signature?
just wondering...
|
Probably a good long while. I've gotten several compliments already.
|
05-14-2006, 11:52 AM
|
#224
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Paraflux. I wonder how long my quote shall be in your signature?
just wondering...
|
Probably a good long while. I've gotten several compliments already. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:12 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen...I have been sitting at this damn comp..for about an hour and a half..give or take interuptions...reading posts from my brother... (I.E. heavenlost ) and others on here.. Paraflux i give ya props I like yer style...any who back on topic.. I'm not as avid a Tool fan as my brother..i also do not always agree with him on most things.. ( I.E. Religion) for one.. he is christian.. I'm pagan...from my stand point it makes some sence.. but i will not stand here and say that Manyard is a bible thumper or preching for god.. i will say that the lyrics are some what christian based..But i CAN Say.. that he is pointing a finger at the church and shunning them while the lyrics.. Tho be it lifting the parts of the christian religion up for mothers sake or not i have no Clue... but my life doesn't revolve around what manyard did to a hooker last night.. or knowing every thing that happened to him... when he was growing up.. but perhaps the lyrics are comming from christian based feelings from his mother.. and that is what he was feeling when he wrote them...point being.. who cares if my brother is christian and throwing out an Idea... I don't bash christians.. when they skip up into pagan chats telling us were going to hell...it's all good.. but come on with the bashing....step out da box people and throw Ideas out and have an actual debate on this not bash him for being what he is and following a religion that he feels is right to him.. and only him.. as i said before.. he doesn't judge me..
Peace... The Psychotroll D
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
05-14-2006, 12:12 PM
|
#225
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Ladies and Gentlemen...I have been sitting at this damn comp..for about an hour and a half..give or take interuptions...reading posts from my brother... (I.E. heavenlost ) and others on here.. Paraflux i give ya props I like yer style...any who back on topic.. I'm not as avid a Tool fan as my brother..i also do not always agree with him on most things.. ( I.E. Religion) for one.. he is christian.. I'm pagan...from my stand point it makes some sence.. but i will not stand here and say that Manyard is a bible thumper or preching for god.. i will say that the lyrics are some what christian based..But i CAN Say.. that he is pointing a finger at the church and shunning them while the lyrics.. Tho be it lifting the parts of the christian religion up for mothers sake or not i have no Clue... but my life doesn't revolve around what manyard did to a hooker last night.. or knowing every thing that happened to him... when he was growing up.. but perhaps the lyrics are comming from christian based feelings from his mother.. and that is what he was feeling when he wrote them...point being.. who cares if my brother is christian and throwing out an Idea... I don't bash christians.. when they skip up into pagan chats telling us were going to hell...it's all good.. but come on with the bashing....step out da box people and throw Ideas out and have an actual debate on this not bash him for being what he is and following a religion that he feels is right to him.. and only him.. as i said before.. he doesn't judge me..
Peace... The Psychotroll D
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
You should get your own account, seriously.
|
05-14-2006, 12:13 PM
|
#226
|
|
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
You should get your own account, seriously.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:22 PM
I don't think anybody is trying to change or convert anybody... if I walk away from this and hope that somebody take something from me to chew on, it would be this: there is such a thing in this world as a "true Christian" apart from a vast majority of "false Christians". Believing that ALL Christians are bastards is the same as assuming that the whole of Islam are bunch of jehad extremists.... not really, some are just "tripping on moldy bread". A line quoted from a Live song... "I have lit all the candles and sat in all the pues". I have done heavy research for many years and just about every religion/philosophy you can think of; Hinduism, Jainism, Reiki, etc... were favorites. But nothing, no substance, just the same empty feeling. When I gave up on "human wisdom", because humans neither the capacity or inclination to conjure or manifest "truth", that is when Jah found me and knew that I was ready... and my whole being has benefited as a result. No more confussion, no more uncertainty. ONLY LOVE. My complete being only wants to please and do Jehovah's will, because I love Him above all things. And everybody has beliefs, even Maynard... or else there would be only despair and absolutely no hope. Most every Christian has been lied to and popular ideas that Christians have are unresearched and have made God make out to be a unreasonable, unfair, unloving, selfish dictatorial bastard and that image couldn't be farther than truth. So if anybody is interested in just seeing things from a different view send a private message with your email... and we'll see what happens from there. Also if any of us Christians have been somehow disrepectful and out-of-line please forgive us, we too are imperfect humans... we all make mistakes, no matter how faithful. Have a nice day.
Sorry I just flew through this one, no time for correct grammar or spelling. Hah!
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 12:27 PM..
|
05-14-2006, 12:22 PM
|
#227
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
I don't think anybody is trying to change or convert anybody... if I walk away from this and hope that somebody take something from me to chew on, it would be this: there is such a thing in this world as a "true Christian" apart from a vast majority of "false Christians". Believing that ALL Christians are bastards is the same as assuming that the whole of Islam are bunch of jehad extremists.... not really, some are just "tripping on moldy bread". A line quoted from a Live song... "I have lit all the candles and sat in all the pues". I have done heavy research for many years and just about every religion/philosophy you can think of; Hinduism, Jainism, Reiki, etc... were favorites. But nothing, no substance, just the same empty feeling. When I gave up on "human wisdom", because humans neither the capacity or inclination to conjure or manifest "truth", that is when Jah found me and knew that I was ready... and my whole being has benefited as a result. No more confussion, no more uncertainty. ONLY LOVE. My complete being only wants to please and do Jehovah's will, because I love Him above all things. And everybody has beliefs, even Maynard... or else there would be only despair and absolutely no hope. Most every Christian has been lied to and popular ideas that Christians have are unresearched and have made God make out to be a unreasonable, unfair, unloving, selfish dictatorial bastard and that image couldn't be farther than truth. So if anybody is interested in just seeing things from a different view send a private message with your email... and we'll see what happens from there. Also if any of us Christians have been somehow disrepectful and out-of-line please forgive us, we too are imperfect humans... we all make mistakes, no matter how faithful. Have a nice day.
Sorry I just flew through this one, no time for correct grammar or spelling. Hah!
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 12:27 PM..
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:41 PM
One more thought; as I sat at the meeting this morning, having a beautiful discussion about the Bible I was lead to a verse and it made me think of this forum. 2nd Timothy Chapter 3, Verses 1-7:
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6*For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7*ALWAYS LEARNING AND YET NEVER ABLE TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
Sound familiar? Not so say any of you are any of these things, but THIS is the type of world we live in.
|
05-14-2006, 12:41 PM
|
#228
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
One more thought; as I sat at the meeting this morning, having a beautiful discussion about the Bible I was lead to a verse and it made me think of this forum. 2nd Timothy Chapter 3, Verses 1-7:
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6*For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7*ALWAYS LEARNING AND YET NEVER ABLE TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
Sound familiar? Not so say any of you are any of these things, but THIS is the type of world we live in.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:50 PM
Here is a place in the Bible where Paul was talking about throwing away a former course of conduct that wasn't pleasing to God. Ephesians Chapter 4, Verses 25-27:
25*Wherefore, now that YOU have put away falsehood, speak truth each one of YOU with his neighbor, because we are members belonging to one another. 26*BE WRATHFUL, and yet do not sin; let the sun not set with YOU in a provoked state, 27*neither allow place for the Devil.
Notice the word wrathful, as regards to one of HeavenLost's posts.
|
05-14-2006, 12:50 PM
|
#229
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Here is a place in the Bible where Paul was talking about throwing away a former course of conduct that wasn't pleasing to God. Ephesians Chapter 4, Verses 25-27:
25*Wherefore, now that YOU have put away falsehood, speak truth each one of YOU with his neighbor, because we are members belonging to one another. 26*BE WRATHFUL, and yet do not sin; let the sun not set with YOU in a provoked state, 27*neither allow place for the Devil.
Notice the word wrathful, as regards to one of HeavenLost's posts.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:51 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
One more thought; as I sat at the meeting this morning, having a beautiful discussion about the Bible I was lead to a verse and it made me think of this forum. 2nd Timothy Chapter 3, Verses 1-7:
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6*For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7*ALWAYS LEARNING AND YET NEVER ABLE TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
Sound familiar? Not so say any of you are any of these things, but THIS is the type of world we live in.
|
Is that supposed to be some type of prediction? People have ALWAYS been like that, even way back in the day. It sounds like distaste for people who were never trained to be obedient and think in a certain way.
|
05-14-2006, 12:51 PM
|
#230
|
|
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
One more thought; as I sat at the meeting this morning, having a beautiful discussion about the Bible I was lead to a verse and it made me think of this forum. 2nd Timothy Chapter 3, Verses 1-7:
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6*For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7*ALWAYS LEARNING AND YET NEVER ABLE TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
Sound familiar? Not so say any of you are any of these things, but THIS is the type of world we live in.
|
Is that supposed to be some type of prediction? People have ALWAYS been like that, even way back in the day. It sounds like distaste for people who were never trained to be obedient and think in a certain way. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 12:59 PM
If you talk to people from before WWI and even before that, they will tell you that the world has changed big time... there used to be a brotherhood of man with honor and love for fellow human beings, at least here in America. But that all changed in the 30's and 40's. And I'd be willing to bet money, even though I shouldn't, you don't have a clue what the Bible says about what (would) happened the same year that WWI began. Suprise me!
The problem with the biggest part of world is that they think if they believed in a creator then they would have to answer to said creator... hence the "I am my own God" bullcrap of today. You would all rather be some phenomenal universal blunder rather than excepting you are but a small peice of a grander puzzle that Jah had intended.
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 01:05 PM..
|
05-14-2006, 12:59 PM
|
#231
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
If you talk to people from before WWI and even before that, they will tell you that the world has changed big time... there used to be a brotherhood of man with honor and love for fellow human beings, at least here in America. But that all changed in the 30's and 40's. And I'd be willing to bet money, even though I shouldn't, you don't have a clue what the Bible says about what (would) happened the same year that WWI began. Suprise me!
The problem with the biggest part of world is that they think if they believed in a creator then they would have to answer to said creator... hence the "I am my own God" bullcrap of today. You would all rather be some phenomenal universal blunder rather than excepting you are but a small peice of a grander puzzle that Jah had intended.
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 01:05 PM..
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:00 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
Is that supposed to be some type of prediction? People have ALWAYS been like that, even way back in the day. It sounds like distaste for people who were never trained to be obedient and think in a certain way.
|
Acctually there was a time when men feared the power of the Creator as one fears the punishment of their father for doing wrong. Today you hear the statement, 'God is dead. We killed him.', that's just not something someone would have said 'way back in the day'.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
05-14-2006, 01:00 PM
|
#232
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
Is that supposed to be some type of prediction? People have ALWAYS been like that, even way back in the day. It sounds like distaste for people who were never trained to be obedient and think in a certain way.
|
Acctually there was a time when men feared the power of the Creator as one fears the punishment of their father for doing wrong. Today you hear the statement, 'God is dead. We killed him.', that's just not something someone would have said 'way back in the day'.
__________________
So good to see you once again, I thought that you were hiding.
You thought that I had run away chasing the tail of dogma.
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Acctually there was a time when men feared the power of the Creator as one fears the punishment of their father for doing wrong. Today you hear the statement, 'God is dead. We killed him.', that's just not something someone would have said 'way back in the day'.
|
Yes, 'way back in the day' somebody would have had to have some large balls to say that, mainly because people WERE afraid, and they would get killed over something like that. So... were they right back then, or are we right now?
|
05-14-2006, 01:06 PM
|
#233
|
|
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Acctually there was a time when men feared the power of the Creator as one fears the punishment of their father for doing wrong. Today you hear the statement, 'God is dead. We killed him.', that's just not something someone would have said 'way back in the day'.
|
Yes, 'way back in the day' somebody would have had to have some large balls to say that, mainly because people WERE afraid, and they would get killed over something like that. So... were they right back then, or are we right now? |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:10 PM
I was just wondering Black Rabbit, how old are you and be honest. And is 50 posts the mark for Deep Thinker?... because I'll post until I reach 49 then disappear!
|
05-14-2006, 01:10 PM
|
#234
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
I was just wondering Black Rabbit, how old are you and be honest. And is 50 posts the mark for Deep Thinker?... because I'll post until I reach 49 then disappear!
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:16 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
I was just wondering Black Rabbit, how old are you and be honest. And is 50 posts the mark for Deep Thinker?... because I'll post until I reach 49 then disappear!
|
I am 23. I used to be hot on the religeous debate when I was highschool, but then I just kind of became disinterested. I guess my argument skills have deteriorated somewhat, but I am just trying to keep my posts short and sweet.
|
05-14-2006, 01:16 PM
|
#235
|
|
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
I was just wondering Black Rabbit, how old are you and be honest. And is 50 posts the mark for Deep Thinker?... because I'll post until I reach 49 then disappear!
|
I am 23. I used to be hot on the religeous debate when I was highschool, but then I just kind of became disinterested. I guess my argument skills have deteriorated somewhat, but I am just trying to keep my posts short and sweet. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:17 PM
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
Lastly I just want to say that Right in Two is the most awesome song of the last five years, and probably one of the greatest songs EVER! You silly monkies.
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 01:24 PM..
|
05-14-2006, 01:17 PM
|
#236
|
|
Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hickville, Amberwavesofgrain
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
Lastly I just want to say that Right in Two is the most awesome song of the last five years, and probably one of the greatest songs EVER! You silly monkies.
Last edited by aperfectnineinchtool; 05-14-2006 at 01:24 PM..
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
|
I used to be a raving atheist, but I figured it didn't do anybody much good. The only belief that I hold onto now is, religeons are only as credible as the humans who founded them. Anybody trying to paint a human face onto god or the creator or what not is most likely biased. Isn't it a coincidence that Jesus looks American, Muhammad looks Middle Eastern (I'm not sure because they censored him), Buddha looks Chinese, etc. etc. It all comes off as so localized and cultural that I can't imagine any one culture getting it right.
Last edited by Black Rabbit; 05-14-2006 at 01:43 PM..
|
05-14-2006, 01:27 PM
|
#237
|
|
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
|
I used to be a raving atheist, but I figured it didn't do anybody much good. The only belief that I hold onto now is, religeons are only as credible as the humans who founded them. Anybody trying to paint a human face onto god or the creator or what not is most likely biased. Isn't it a coincidence that Jesus looks American, Muhammad looks Middle Eastern (I'm not sure because they censored him), Buddha looks Chinese, etc. etc. It all comes off as so localized and cultural that I can't imagine any one culture getting it right.
Last edited by Black Rabbit; 05-14-2006 at 01:43 PM..
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:28 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
Lastly I just want to say that Right in Two is the most awesome song of the last five years, and probably one of the greatest songs EVER! You silly monkies.
|
Amen my monkey brutha', such a true song.
|
05-14-2006, 01:28 PM
|
#238
|
|
Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
wow, silence... sounds good, but somehow disturbing.
Oops, spoke too soon... master debaters have never impressed me.
Lastly I just want to say that Right in Two is the most awesome song of the last five years, and probably one of the greatest songs EVER! You silly monkies.
|
Amen my monkey brutha', such a true song. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 01:40 PM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mike09
Got any links to read more about this stuff?
|
Sorry for not re-visiting this thread sooner.
For links, I would actually just use a search engine and put in some key words like 'Council of Nicea', 'Emporer Constantine', or "gnostic scriptures" and start plowing thru the information. Among all the other information that will generate, you should be able to find a lot of material regarding the creation of the Bible as an actual book, what motivated Constantine to do it, how the included texts were chosen, why other texts were omitted, and even how some of the texts found in the Bible were altered to better fit the story being generated.
As for information on the Trinity, if you just type that in you'll most likely get bombarded with info that only pertains to the common Trinity term of today, which is fine if you're not already familiar with the doctrine itself and want to know what it means to most Christian religions. But if you can start finding links that associate the Trinity to early Christianity, that will begin to offer more information as to the forming of the idea and where the concept truly stems from. Something that discusses the Trinity within the scope of early Judaism might also be good reading material. Jesus himself was not Christian, he was Jewish, as were his associates and followers. Something extremely important to note after you begin to understand early Judaic teachings, particularly their concept of God.
Also, you can simply look up information on other cultures of the time period and before to get an idea of what surrounding Biblical nations felt was true, particularly Egypt and their collection of Gods.
Along those lines, you might be interested in referencing Horus, the Egyptian God-Son of Osirus and Isis. The fact that Egyptian dieties pre-date Bible based religions makes the parallels all the more intreguing because it alludes to the realization that virtually nothing about Christianity or the Bible is new, even the amazing stories involving Jesus. Horus was still widely recognized and worshipped in Jesus' time. It's very easy to make the connection between the two and claim that the accounts of Horus in all likelihood helped to shape the stories now associated with Jesus.
|
05-14-2006, 01:40 PM
|
#239
|
|
Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mike09
Got any links to read more about this stuff?
|
Sorry for not re-visiting this thread sooner.
For links, I would actually just use a search engine and put in some key words like 'Council of Nicea', 'Emporer Constantine', or "gnostic scriptures" and start plowing thru the information. Among all the other information that will generate, you should be able to find a lot of material regarding the creation of the Bible as an actual book, what motivated Constantine to do it, how the included texts were chosen, why other texts were omitted, and even how some of the texts found in the Bible were altered to better fit the story being generated.
As for information on the Trinity, if you just type that in you'll most likely get bombarded with info that only pertains to the common Trinity term of today, which is fine if you're not already familiar with the doctrine itself and want to know what it means to most Christian religions. But if you can start finding links that associate the Trinity to early Christianity, that will begin to offer more information as to the forming of the idea and where the concept truly stems from. Something that discusses the Trinity within the scope of early Judaism might also be good reading material. Jesus himself was not Christian, he was Jewish, as were his associates and followers. Something extremely important to note after you begin to understand early Judaic teachings, particularly their concept of God.
Also, you can simply look up information on other cultures of the time period and before to get an idea of what surrounding Biblical nations felt was true, particularly Egypt and their collection of Gods.
Along those lines, you might be interested in referencing Horus, the Egyptian God-Son of Osirus and Isis. The fact that Egyptian dieties pre-date Bible based religions makes the parallels all the more intreguing because it alludes to the realization that virtually nothing about Christianity or the Bible is new, even the amazing stories involving Jesus. Horus was still widely recognized and worshipped in Jesus' time. It's very easy to make the connection between the two and claim that the accounts of Horus in all likelihood helped to shape the stories now associated with Jesus. |
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
05-14-2006, 02:15 PM
To aperfectnineinchtool.
Somewhat surprised a Jehovah's Witness would wish to associate themselves with Tool and these forums which might possibly house disfellowshipped persons. Seems like a potentially bad choice in both cases given how dangerous worldly views can be.
1914/1919, the War in heaven comes to it's fruition. Gabriel and his army of angels cast Satan and his demons down to Earth. God rests idle while the Devil is allowed control of the world in a last ditch attempt at leading as many humans astray as possible. Tribulation and critical times hard to deal with are soon to reach it's pineacle as seating for the 144,000 inches closer to capacity.
You don't need to tell me how close I am on any of that, but you're welcome to if you'd like. Again, surprised to see you here, but I suppose not extremely so. Tool's a good rock band, what can you do?
|
05-14-2006, 02:15 PM
|
#240
|
|
Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
|
Re: From Maynards Own Mouth
To aperfectnineinchtool.
Somewhat surprised a Jehovah's Witness would wish to associate themselves with Tool and these forums which might possibly house disfellowshipped persons. Seems like a potentially bad choice in both cases given how dangerous worldly views can be.
1914/1919, the War in heaven comes to it's fruition. Gabriel and his army of angels cast Satan and his demons down to Earth. God rests idle while the Devil is allowed control of the world in a last ditch attempt at leading as many humans astray as possible. Tribulation and critical times hard to deal with are soon to reach it's pineacle as seating for the 144,000 inches closer to capacity.
You don't need to tell me how close I am on any of that, but you're welcome to if you'd like. Again, surprised to see you here, but I suppose not extremely so. Tool's a good rock band, what can you do?
|
|
OFFLINE |
|
|
Powered by: vBulletin 3.8.7 Patch Level 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
all posts © their respective authors. the tool page is not responsible for any of their thoughts, brilliant or otherwise.
|
