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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 08:02 PM
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Thank you so very much gitarreliebhaber. That is an inspired (immediate influence of God) truth.

To omnitronic,
As brothers of Christ we are all called to witness to everyone, to bring them the good news that Christ became the propitiation for all our sins. He died as payment for our sins so we wouldn't have to. The unfortunate part is that there aren't more of these 'outspoken proponents'. Many Christians don't witness and some of those that do only do it because it makes them look good to their peers or because its expected that they do.

Now for those of you who refuse to believe 'in a false messiah'. You're wagering your eternity here. And like gitarreliebhaber said, I'd rather not put my trust in something that someone like my imperfect and pridefull self came up with. If you're comfortable with your pride and you're sure you on your own can overcome your own imperfection and that you can create something (even an iota of matter to keep you company in the concious oblivion of hell) outside of the only power in all of existance capable of creation, then, as is your free will right, continue in your beliefs.
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:02 PM   #161
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Thank you so very much gitarreliebhaber. That is an inspired (immediate influence of God) truth.

To omnitronic,
As brothers of Christ we are all called to witness to everyone, to bring them the good news that Christ became the propitiation for all our sins. He died as payment for our sins so we wouldn't have to. The unfortunate part is that there aren't more of these 'outspoken proponents'. Many Christians don't witness and some of those that do only do it because it makes them look good to their peers or because its expected that they do.

Now for those of you who refuse to believe 'in a false messiah'. You're wagering your eternity here. And like gitarreliebhaber said, I'd rather not put my trust in something that someone like my imperfect and pridefull self came up with. If you're comfortable with your pride and you're sure you on your own can overcome your own imperfection and that you can create something (even an iota of matter to keep you company in the concious oblivion of hell) outside of the only power in all of existance capable of creation, then, as is your free will right, continue in your beliefs.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Now for those of you who refuse to believe 'in a false messiah'. You're wagering your eternity here. And like gitarreliebhaber said, I'd rather not put my trust in something that someone like my imperfect and pridefull self came up with. If you're comfortable with your pride and you're sure you on your own can overcome your own imperfection and that you can create something (even an iota of matter to keep you company in the concious oblivion of hell) outside of the only power in all of existance capable of creation, then, as is your free will right, continue in your beliefs.
My eternity is pretty secure, thanks. And I reject the christian philosophy 100% It is my opinion that western religion does not teach what Christ meant or what he would have wanted. Therefore, your spreading of these dogmatic viewpoints are, to me, a virus. Nothing against you personally, but I dont think 99% of people who call themselves christians know God any better than I do.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:08 PM   #162
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Now for those of you who refuse to believe 'in a false messiah'. You're wagering your eternity here. And like gitarreliebhaber said, I'd rather not put my trust in something that someone like my imperfect and pridefull self came up with. If you're comfortable with your pride and you're sure you on your own can overcome your own imperfection and that you can create something (even an iota of matter to keep you company in the concious oblivion of hell) outside of the only power in all of existance capable of creation, then, as is your free will right, continue in your beliefs.
My eternity is pretty secure, thanks. And I reject the christian philosophy 100% It is my opinion that western religion does not teach what Christ meant or what he would have wanted. Therefore, your spreading of these dogmatic viewpoints are, to me, a virus. Nothing against you personally, but I dont think 99% of people who call themselves christians know God any better than I do.
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
I was under the impression that all of the Gospels in the New Testament were penned by many people over a period of a hundred years or so.
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
Remember, the canonization of text is an entirely subjective process, presided over by men.
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
What about this do you not understand? God might as well have stood in the same room with John and dictated the entire book of revelation to him.
Subjective process? Puh! Presided over by man? Puhuh! The Holy Spirit stood at the front of that table, gavel in hand. All man did was the leg work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
Calling the Gnostic Gospels a hoax based on their supposed authorship (which is still being debated) and the dates written (which is also still being debated) is an accusation few of the canonized Gospels would stand up to very well either.
The scientific community will debate something just to keep if from becoming accepted fact. Just like court appeals, they do it all the time. But the findings are conclusive. The Gnostic Gospels were penned centuries after the life of Christ by people who never knew him. The Canon Gospels were penned a few years after His death by eyewitnesses who did know Him.
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:21 PM   #163
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
I was under the impression that all of the Gospels in the New Testament were penned by many people over a period of a hundred years or so.
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
Remember, the canonization of text is an entirely subjective process, presided over by men.
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
What about this do you not understand? God might as well have stood in the same room with John and dictated the entire book of revelation to him.
Subjective process? Puh! Presided over by man? Puhuh! The Holy Spirit stood at the front of that table, gavel in hand. All man did was the leg work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitronic
Calling the Gnostic Gospels a hoax based on their supposed authorship (which is still being debated) and the dates written (which is also still being debated) is an accusation few of the canonized Gospels would stand up to very well either.
The scientific community will debate something just to keep if from becoming accepted fact. Just like court appeals, they do it all the time. But the findings are conclusive. The Gnostic Gospels were penned centuries after the life of Christ by people who never knew him. The Canon Gospels were penned a few years after His death by eyewitnesses who did know Him.
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aperfectnineinchtool's Avatar aperfectnineinchtool
05-13-2006, 08:22 PM
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This was a really neat (and no I'm not gay) thread that lead to an even neater (hah) discussion, but I can see now that perhaps I shouldn't engage the argument any longer because people are going to believe what they want to believe because its too easy to walk in a line and much more difficult to see your flaws. If people are going to "repent" which literally means "to have a change of mind" they have to want to, which I don't see any here. And I loved what gitarreliebhaber said, very good. But you guys are gonna naysay until the universe implodes. Also I'm getting close to that "Deep Thinker" mark and want to keep my mind and integrety. Peace
Old 05-13-2006, 08:22 PM   #164
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

This was a really neat (and no I'm not gay) thread that lead to an even neater (hah) discussion, but I can see now that perhaps I shouldn't engage the argument any longer because people are going to believe what they want to believe because its too easy to walk in a line and much more difficult to see your flaws. If people are going to "repent" which literally means "to have a change of mind" they have to want to, which I don't see any here. And I loved what gitarreliebhaber said, very good. But you guys are gonna naysay until the universe implodes. Also I'm getting close to that "Deep Thinker" mark and want to keep my mind and integrety. Peace
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.
Because... you were there?


Quote:
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
And it's this sickness that has you guys thinking that such inspiration is not given out today.
Quote:
What about this do you not understand?
I think what you do not understand is that there are people who channel the same energy today. End of story.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:23 PM   #165
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Wrong. Mathew was written by Mathew. Mark by Mark. Luke by Luke. John by John.
Because... you were there?


Quote:
Inspiration: Immediate influence of God
And it's this sickness that has you guys thinking that such inspiration is not given out today.
Quote:
What about this do you not understand?
I think what you do not understand is that there are people who channel the same energy today. End of story.
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
My eternity is pretty secure, thanks. And I reject the christian philosophy 100% It is my opinion that western religion does not teach what Christ meant or what he would have wanted. Therefore, your spreading of these dogmatic viewpoints are, to me, a virus. Nothing against you personally, but I dont think 99% of people who call themselves christians know God any better than I do.
I will pray for you.
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:23 PM   #166
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
My eternity is pretty secure, thanks. And I reject the christian philosophy 100% It is my opinion that western religion does not teach what Christ meant or what he would have wanted. Therefore, your spreading of these dogmatic viewpoints are, to me, a virus. Nothing against you personally, but I dont think 99% of people who call themselves christians know God any better than I do.
I will pray for you.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:25 PM
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I do appreciate it. There is some fascinating research done on prayer. It seems that when a group of people do focus their energy, such as in prayer, or meditation, it works. The power of the mind.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:25 PM   #167
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

I do appreciate it. There is some fascinating research done on prayer. It seems that when a group of people do focus their energy, such as in prayer, or meditation, it works. The power of the mind.
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aperfectnineinchtool's Avatar aperfectnineinchtool
05-13-2006, 08:25 PM
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HeavenLost I'm telling there is no point, get out while you still have something between your ears!!! AAAHHH!!!
Old 05-13-2006, 08:25 PM   #168
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

HeavenLost I'm telling there is no point, get out while you still have something between your ears!!! AAAHHH!!!
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:26 PM
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That was funny, given my last post.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:26 PM   #169
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

That was funny, given my last post.
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Alistair_Carson's Avatar Alistair_Carson
05-13-2006, 08:29 PM
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lol...

I love these theistic discussions we toss about every now and then.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:29 PM   #170
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

lol...

I love these theistic discussions we toss about every now and then.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:32 PM
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I try not to get involved most of the time. Sometimes I cant help myself.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:32 PM   #171
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

I try not to get involved most of the time. Sometimes I cant help myself.
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 08:33 PM
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Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:33 PM   #172
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
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Alistair_Carson's Avatar Alistair_Carson
05-13-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
Dude... if you're a Christian, please do me a favor and shut the fuck up. Talking down to people that way makes Christians out to be deceptive, hypocritical, and condescending. Don't do it.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:36 PM   #173
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
Dude... if you're a Christian, please do me a favor and shut the fuck up. Talking down to people that way makes Christians out to be deceptive, hypocritical, and condescending. Don't do it.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
There is much I do not know. But at least I am willing to admit that nothing will be kept from me if I search for it, and that any limitations I have are because I set them myself. Silence my drivel? You know nothing about me or my experiences. You could not have possible known that my father and grandfather were both ministers. So I know what I'm talking about. Something I cannot stand is trying to talk to overzealous teenagers about Christianity. They simply have no experience, making them lean heavily upon two things, their ideals, and what they have been told. So, out here in the "Outerdark," I commune, my way.
Quote:
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
As I said, you're a fool for thinking you know anything about me.
Quote:
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
Then we are on the same side after all. Perhaps one of us just cannot see it.
Quote:
'And its source is bright and endless'
Indeed it is.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:37 PM   #174
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
There is much I do not know. But at least I am willing to admit that nothing will be kept from me if I search for it, and that any limitations I have are because I set them myself. Silence my drivel? You know nothing about me or my experiences. You could not have possible known that my father and grandfather were both ministers. So I know what I'm talking about. Something I cannot stand is trying to talk to overzealous teenagers about Christianity. They simply have no experience, making them lean heavily upon two things, their ideals, and what they have been told. So, out here in the "Outerdark," I commune, my way.
Quote:
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
As I said, you're a fool for thinking you know anything about me.
Quote:
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
Then we are on the same side after all. Perhaps one of us just cannot see it.
Quote:
'And its source is bright and endless'
Indeed it is.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair_Carson
Dude... if you're a Christian, please do me a favor and shut the fuck up. Talking down to people that way makes Christians out to be deceptive, hypocritical, and condescending. Don't do it.
Makes them out to be? Wouldnt you say that it's a safe generalization that if you engage a christian in conversation concerning religion, that they will always come across as such?
Old 05-13-2006, 08:38 PM   #175
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair_Carson
Dude... if you're a Christian, please do me a favor and shut the fuck up. Talking down to people that way makes Christians out to be deceptive, hypocritical, and condescending. Don't do it.
Makes them out to be? Wouldnt you say that it's a safe generalization that if you engage a christian in conversation concerning religion, that they will always come across as such?
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eddie75's Avatar eddie75
05-13-2006, 08:38 PM
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My first point is what does it matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
We all know that Judith Marie was a devout Christian, and if here life wasn't a lie ('she never lived a lie') then her life must haven been true.

My second one is on the above statement. I don't think he was talking about the accuracy of her faith, but more about the conviction of her faith. It seems more to me that he's making a comment about how most of the christains around her never had that conviction. Basically she lived what she believed and did nothing to appose those beliefs like many others do.
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:38 PM   #176
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

My first point is what does it matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
We all know that Judith Marie was a devout Christian, and if here life wasn't a lie ('she never lived a lie') then her life must haven been true.

My second one is on the above statement. I don't think he was talking about the accuracy of her faith, but more about the conviction of her faith. It seems more to me that he's making a comment about how most of the christains around her never had that conviction. Basically she lived what she believed and did nothing to appose those beliefs like many others do.
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Alistair_Carson's Avatar Alistair_Carson
05-13-2006, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Makes them out to be? Wouldnt you say that it's a safe generalization that if you engage a christian in conversation concerning religion, that they will always come across as such?
Considering what all I've seen in various Protestant churches (particularly in the Baptist and non-denominational churches here in town), yes. This is true.

I mean nobody's perfect. It doesn't matter what religion someone is, they are still prone to mistakes. Being a Christian does not make one better than another. This is what I'm so sick of seeing.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:46 PM   #177
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Makes them out to be? Wouldnt you say that it's a safe generalization that if you engage a christian in conversation concerning religion, that they will always come across as such?
Considering what all I've seen in various Protestant churches (particularly in the Baptist and non-denominational churches here in town), yes. This is true.

I mean nobody's perfect. It doesn't matter what religion someone is, they are still prone to mistakes. Being a Christian does not make one better than another. This is what I'm so sick of seeing.
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 08:47 PM
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You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.

What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:47 PM   #178
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.

What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.
I disagree with christianity 100%, yet not the example of Christ. I just think christians have it all wrong. And I have that right, and I have already risked my salvation, and it was worth it because I came out on top as I knew I would.

Quote:
What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
Then if you know all, you know there are as many paths to the source you described as there are people. If you are basing your mindset on experience, thats fine, thats where you need to be right now. I will never say you are wrong.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:53 PM   #179
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.
I disagree with christianity 100%, yet not the example of Christ. I just think christians have it all wrong. And I have that right, and I have already risked my salvation, and it was worth it because I came out on top as I knew I would.

Quote:
What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
Then if you know all, you know there are as many paths to the source you described as there are people. If you are basing your mindset on experience, thats fine, thats where you need to be right now. I will never say you are wrong.
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Alistair_Carson's Avatar Alistair_Carson
05-13-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.

What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
Is this your way of "witnessing"? Belittling another guy across the internet?

Matthew 7:1-2 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged."

Oh wait. I'm sure you already knew that.

Last edited by Alistair_Carson; 05-13-2006 at 08:56 PM..
Old 05-13-2006, 08:54 PM   #180
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
You have told me enough about you for me to know I'm right. You say you disagree with Christianity 100%. Then you must know all, and therefore be God. To disagree 100% is to deny the existance of God, but you have addmited there is much you do not know. Therefore you couldn't possibly be God and couldn't possibly stand on any firm foundation in denying Him.

What I say is no assumption, and not what I have been told. Its what I found. As you said nothing will be kept if I search for it.
'Knock and it will be opened.'
Is this your way of "witnessing"? Belittling another guy across the internet?

Matthew 7:1-2 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged."

Oh wait. I'm sure you already knew that.

Last edited by Alistair_Carson; 05-13-2006 at 08:56 PM..
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 08:57 PM
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No, he's praying for me in the meantime, so its all good apparently.
Old 05-13-2006, 08:57 PM   #181
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

No, he's praying for me in the meantime, so its all good apparently.
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05-13-2006, 09:02 PM
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Alistair, that measure i use for judging is logic. I'll admit, its not perfect. I have treated others on this forum respectfully and with maturity even when bashed for my opinion, then my views are called viral. This is one way of witnessing, God said there are times for wrath.
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:02 PM   #182
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Alistair, that measure i use for judging is logic. I'll admit, its not perfect. I have treated others on this forum respectfully and with maturity even when bashed for my opinion, then my views are called viral. This is one way of witnessing, God said there are times for wrath.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 09:04 PM
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You keep saying God said this and that, without quoting any passages. No one ever told you that that was irresponsible? I am especially interested in where God said (New Testament, mind you) that it's perfectly acceptable to use wrath as a witnessing tool for him.

p.s. you made it into my signature, by the way
Old 05-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #183
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

You keep saying God said this and that, without quoting any passages. No one ever told you that that was irresponsible? I am especially interested in where God said (New Testament, mind you) that it's perfectly acceptable to use wrath as a witnessing tool for him.

p.s. you made it into my signature, by the way
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05-13-2006, 09:04 PM
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I used to go to Houston Northwest Baptist's youth group. It was the biggest fake theistic performance I've ever seen. You got kids all over the place jumping up and down onstage exclaiming how "Jesus changed their life and accepted them for who they are", but then turn around and begin chastising you for wearing a secular band shirt, or having a pack of cigarettes in your pocket, or in the case of my friend, a displaying a socialist tee-shirt. I was literally pointed out by the guy onstage for not knowing the words to their youth group theme song (not a hymn, but a fuckin theme song).
Old 05-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #184
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

I used to go to Houston Northwest Baptist's youth group. It was the biggest fake theistic performance I've ever seen. You got kids all over the place jumping up and down onstage exclaiming how "Jesus changed their life and accepted them for who they are", but then turn around and begin chastising you for wearing a secular band shirt, or having a pack of cigarettes in your pocket, or in the case of my friend, a displaying a socialist tee-shirt. I was literally pointed out by the guy onstage for not knowing the words to their youth group theme song (not a hymn, but a fuckin theme song).
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05-13-2006, 09:10 PM
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I don't go by what people tell me Paraflux. There is nowhere in the New Testament where God said there is a time for wrath.
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:10 PM   #185
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

I don't go by what people tell me Paraflux. There is nowhere in the New Testament where God said there is a time for wrath.
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paraflux
05-13-2006, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
This is one way of witnessing, God said there are times for wrath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavenlost
There is nowhere in the New Testament where God said there is a time for wrath.
On that note, I'm going to bed.

edit: I mean, I'm going to flop around a bit in the Outerdark
Old 05-13-2006, 09:12 PM   #186
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
This is one way of witnessing, God said there are times for wrath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavenlost
There is nowhere in the New Testament where God said there is a time for wrath.
On that note, I'm going to bed.

edit: I mean, I'm going to flop around a bit in the Outerdark
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05-13-2006, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
On that note, I'm going to bed.

edit: I mean, I'm going to flop around a bit in the Outerdark
LMAO.

Outerdark. Classic.
Old 05-13-2006, 09:13 PM   #187
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
On that note, I'm going to bed.

edit: I mean, I'm going to flop around a bit in the Outerdark
LMAO.

Outerdark. Classic.
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05-13-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair_Carson
LMAO.

Outerdark. Classic.
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.

Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:16 PM   #188
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair_Carson
LMAO.

Outerdark. Classic.
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.

Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
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05-13-2006, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.

Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
A Double standard towards righteousness compounded by the path of least resistance.
Old 05-13-2006, 09:58 PM   #189
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Yeah, that goes back to Sumerian mythos. Interesting stuff.

Let me ask you a question. Why is it completely unacceptable for a Christian to get angry when its just normal to see flaming and bashing and ridiculing from none Christians?
A Double standard towards righteousness compounded by the path of least resistance.
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05-13-2006, 10:05 PM
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The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on me own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
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Last edited by HeavenLost; 05-13-2006 at 10:25 PM..
Old 05-13-2006, 10:05 PM   #190
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on me own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
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Last edited by HeavenLost; 05-13-2006 at 10:25 PM..
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meatchunk's Avatar meatchunk
05-13-2006, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on my own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
Agreed!!! And just remember, every religion has a story about the unbeaten path. Stick to it and you should do fine.
Old 05-13-2006, 10:13 PM   #191
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on my own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
Agreed!!! And just remember, every religion has a story about the unbeaten path. Stick to it and you should do fine.
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drenei
05-13-2006, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on my own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
Everyone has their own beliefs. I think one common aspect with MOST religious/spiritual/atheistic/agnostic views is 'respecting' (for lack of a better word) the life you live. Being yourself. And yet I've found the aspects of religions I've had experience with, in trying to follow their ideas on human development, lose the individual (in most situations). That loss isn't something I'd accept, and since religions aren't usually a pick and choose affair , I've stayed away for quite a while now. Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)

Enough ranting. I don't think 10,000 days is a sign that Maynard is christian. Rather it feels like a song about his experience/frustration/admiration for his mother and her strong faith. But I guess you could just ask Maynard... ;p
Old 05-13-2006, 10:40 PM   #192
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on my own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
Everyone has their own beliefs. I think one common aspect with MOST religious/spiritual/atheistic/agnostic views is 'respecting' (for lack of a better word) the life you live. Being yourself. And yet I've found the aspects of religions I've had experience with, in trying to follow their ideas on human development, lose the individual (in most situations). That loss isn't something I'd accept, and since religions aren't usually a pick and choose affair , I've stayed away for quite a while now. Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)

Enough ranting. I don't think 10,000 days is a sign that Maynard is christian. Rather it feels like a song about his experience/frustration/admiration for his mother and her strong faith. But I guess you could just ask Maynard... ;p
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05-13-2006, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on me own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
From what i gather,
you have alot pressure on you,
you have alot of things/thoughts on your mind.
You've created an Entity based on the content and activity of your mind.
This activity is so compulsive that you are not aware of this entity and it's almost like its taken possesion of your mind.
And it just so happens that this entity is called " You".
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:44 PM   #193
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
The key tenent of Christianity is not to be the best, nicest, most benevolent person. Its not to sing songs and clap. Its not to form these little cliques. But you wouldn't know that by looking at modern Churchians. I think thats where this hypocracy comes from.

The single most important thing that started my on me own journey was learning that my best will never be good enough. I can strive my entire life to be good and it'll never happen. My own works cannot usher me into Paradise. Only by accepting the sacrifice that Jesus offered up can I find salvation from my own evil, and i have said that a multitude of times on this thread. That no man (including me) can ever be selfless, no one (including me) is without sin. Still, Im thought of as a hypocrite and I could never figure out why, untill recently. If you can see the distinction between social Christians, whom i call Churchians, and a man who sits in his own living room, alone, and reads a Bible then you'll understand that i am not a hypocrite. Churchians want you to believe they have no fault. It all goes back to the social aspect of their clique. If they show any inkling of sin then they get the drumhead. That whole system is hypocracy. When I get angry and lash out and in the end prove myself right that I am not sinless, then am i still a hypocrite? When I prove that I, even I, still need Christ on a daily, hourly, moment to moment basis, exactly as i have said, does that still make me a hypocrite?

You Christians out there, you in your heart Christians, you've been through exactly what im about to describe. There is an enormous social pressure to maintain this uncrackable resolve to never, never, never sin ever at all period. This pressure is not from our faith but from society. People will snatch a parking spot that i've been waiting for and they'll say, 'Oh its ok. I know him, he's a Christian, he wont mind' Acquaintances will come and ask me for money, thinking, 'he's gotta give it to me cause he's a pushover Christian and if he doesn't then everyone will know he's just a big liar.'

Well here's the truth. Christians sin just as much as any average person. Difference is we are allowed to see that sin through our Creator's eyes and can then begin to grow away from it. But that takes trust in God that some are just not ready for.
From what i gather,
you have alot pressure on you,
you have alot of things/thoughts on your mind.
You've created an Entity based on the content and activity of your mind.
This activity is so compulsive that you are not aware of this entity and it's almost like its taken possesion of your mind.
And it just so happens that this entity is called " You".
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meatchunk's Avatar meatchunk
05-13-2006, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drenei
Everyone has their own beliefs. I think one common aspect with MOST religious/spiritual/atheistic/agnostic views is 'respecting' (for lack of a better word) the life you live. Being yourself. And yet I've found the aspects of religions I've had experience with, in trying to follow their ideas on human development, lose the individual (in most situations). That loss isn't something I'd accept, and since religions aren't usually a pick and choose affair , I've stayed away for quite a while now. Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)

Enough ranting. I don't think 10,000 days is a sign that Maynard is christian. Rather it feels like a song about his experience/frustration/admiration for his mother and her strong faith. But I guess you could just ask Maynard... ;p
He won't give us an answer. He finds our posts to amusing for him to stop. But other than that...Agreed.
Old 05-13-2006, 10:48 PM   #194
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by drenei
Everyone has their own beliefs. I think one common aspect with MOST religious/spiritual/atheistic/agnostic views is 'respecting' (for lack of a better word) the life you live. Being yourself. And yet I've found the aspects of religions I've had experience with, in trying to follow their ideas on human development, lose the individual (in most situations). That loss isn't something I'd accept, and since religions aren't usually a pick and choose affair , I've stayed away for quite a while now. Which is not say spirituality is something I've stayed away from. ;)

Enough ranting. I don't think 10,000 days is a sign that Maynard is christian. Rather it feels like a song about his experience/frustration/admiration for his mother and her strong faith. But I guess you could just ask Maynard... ;p
He won't give us an answer. He finds our posts to amusing for him to stop. But other than that...Agreed.
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05-13-2006, 10:49 PM
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man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.

Peace.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:49 PM   #195
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

man, Christians get schooled in this thread. The funny thing is that if some Bhuddist came along and said "enlightenment is great" you'd all say "man, that's sweet dude." No one wants to hear a black and white system, cause it doesn't bend for them. Kudos to you, HeavenLost. I hope you have this much balls in the real world, where someone MAY be listening.

Peace.
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therandom's Avatar therandom
05-13-2006, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:51 PM   #196
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Silence your drivel, paraflux. You dance around in the Outerdark, thinking you know all.
But you know nothing. You have denied truth and now you circle around on yourself consuming your own tail in search for sustenance that you cannot provide.
There are people channeling that same energy today, right now I am one of them.
'And its source is bright and endless'
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
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meatchunk's Avatar meatchunk
05-13-2006, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
There are rules in spirituality???
Old 05-13-2006, 11:00 PM   #197
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
There are rules in spirituality???
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
HeavenLost, are you suprised @ all that we would get these reactions? One reply said that the majority of Tool fans aren't Christians... need I say more, not really but I must. The problem with non-christians and christians alike is they want to take one story or passage and base a whole ideolgy on it and completely miss the point. Some of the things being said, while you all have the right to say whatever, is completely unresearched and incoherant nonsense. Most of you probably haven't even read more than a page out of the Bible, and that's okay if that is "how you roll". I think its awesome what HeavenLost saying, not much of that anywhere around... a breath of fresh air... very uplifting and encouraging. I suggest to most of you who care to know what the hell you're talking about next time to go out and read the whole Bible and then you can talk to me, anytime. I just want to say for the record that I love Tool more than any band on earth, no band rocks like Tool, the greatest... having said that I am a Christian, or try to be one, and am studying to become a Jehovah's Witness... and I am not ashamed and could give a crap what anybody thinks about that. I have never in my life found such knowledge or peace than with these people... and you never know such love for God than this. So say what you must. I'm out!
I am suprised. Very much. I always thought Tool fostered a minset of quiet contemplation and then surging energy and always open mindedness. I assumed (yeah, yeah) that ideas would be openly shared here not bashed on and dismissed out right, but i was wrong. Kudos to those who weigh in with your higher brain functions, though.
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Old 05-13-2006, 11:06 PM   #198
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by aperfectnineinchtool
HeavenLost, are you suprised @ all that we would get these reactions? One reply said that the majority of Tool fans aren't Christians... need I say more, not really but I must. The problem with non-christians and christians alike is they want to take one story or passage and base a whole ideolgy on it and completely miss the point. Some of the things being said, while you all have the right to say whatever, is completely unresearched and incoherant nonsense. Most of you probably haven't even read more than a page out of the Bible, and that's okay if that is "how you roll". I think its awesome what HeavenLost saying, not much of that anywhere around... a breath of fresh air... very uplifting and encouraging. I suggest to most of you who care to know what the hell you're talking about next time to go out and read the whole Bible and then you can talk to me, anytime. I just want to say for the record that I love Tool more than any band on earth, no band rocks like Tool, the greatest... having said that I am a Christian, or try to be one, and am studying to become a Jehovah's Witness... and I am not ashamed and could give a crap what anybody thinks about that. I have never in my life found such knowledge or peace than with these people... and you never know such love for God than this. So say what you must. I'm out!
I am suprised. Very much. I always thought Tool fostered a minset of quiet contemplation and then surging energy and always open mindedness. I assumed (yeah, yeah) that ideas would be openly shared here not bashed on and dismissed out right, but i was wrong. Kudos to those who weigh in with your higher brain functions, though.
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HeavenLost's Avatar HeavenLost
05-13-2006, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
I called him paraflux. Now i spoke harshly because i got angry. HeavenLost is human after all. I thought i'd be within my rights to return the undully harsh words he used in describing my faith. After all, i've been posting here for two days now, and have probably been flamed more then most in a whole month.
Thank also, therandom, for you encouraging words but does it realy seem that i have 'much balls'? :)
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Old 05-13-2006, 11:33 PM   #199
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by therandom
*hears the sound of 5,000 people rushing to find Christ*

you can;t call people names a preach, moron.
I called him paraflux. Now i spoke harshly because i got angry. HeavenLost is human after all. I thought i'd be within my rights to return the undully harsh words he used in describing my faith. After all, i've been posting here for two days now, and have probably been flamed more then most in a whole month.
Thank also, therandom, for you encouraging words but does it realy seem that i have 'much balls'? :)
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implandnoises's Avatar implandnoises
05-14-2006, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Nothing you've said has hurt me, just concerns me. Its not just you who have a heart of stone. I did once. Its not because you don't share my beliefs, its because you were born that way; naturaly attracted to what will best benefit you.
Selfishness is the stone, the leaden grudge and pride is the chain that binds us to it.

Do not think that I am here for my own cause, there are much more enjoyable things i could be doing, even necessary things. But, for some reason, i feel moved, even inspired, to write all this here. Consider this. I do not know you, i don't think that you will have any impact on my life beyond this message board. So then, what reason is there for me to attempt to persuade you? I will gain nothing from it in any material or scociopolitical way. This is true, then i must accept that this is the 'immediate influence of God'.
Sorry, I have been out of this loop for such a period that it has grown three pages, but I must go back to this post and re-address the "heart of stone" issue. You are being disturbingly presumptuous here and also with your characterisation of paraflux. It seems that you are unwilling to take my character on face value (as little face as I have revealed) but rather would present me as something that you once were, simply because I am not what you are now. You say it is because we are all born selfish and apparently can only rid ourselves of that through Christ. Your rule book says that is the way things are, so it is unnecessary for you to actually come to know me as another human being to witness the possible virtue of my character. Instead, your rules say that it is plain that I must have a selfish heart because I clearly have not done what is needed to transform it.

This is a good example of how beliefs divide people. You are unwilling to accept that I may actually be a good person with pure intentions if I am not of your chosen group. I must change to your prescribed result for you to accept me as a person who is healthy, selfless and worthy(or suitably unworthy if you want to talk about my unending sinfulness). My actions in my relations with others are kind and honourable to a high degree that I hold as most sensibly important. And it is important. We are a world at war. One must be vigilant in their actions to ensure virtue is at their core and is emanating to the world. I do not act nice in an attempt to secure my place in heaven, that is foolish and false. I am not interested in my conclusion or inclusion, I am concerned with our wellbeing, not only at this critical time in history but for any time (as, clearly, one thing leads to another). We are at war with one another - or so most of choose - and beliefs are at the centre of our reason for this. It is inevitable, if I was to choose to centre my thoughts on a belief system, such as Christianity for example, then I would feel the need to partake in this war in some way. Of course, it would make perfect sense then. Then I could base my decisions on the teachings of others through history who too have waged wars and have experience with this kind of thing. It would become important which side I chose, which course of action I would take to encourage these people here or discourage these people there. I am not saying that you would fight because you are Christian and thats what your beliefs tell you - I don't know that about you. But I am sure you would do something, something that you believe to be right according to the most wise and almighty. And this action, whatever it may be, will be inevitably in conflict with the thoughts and actions of those who hold a different set of beliefs, in this case namely Muslims. That conflict is impossible to resolve while the beliefs still exist and that is why, over time, this conflict has evolved into the crisis that it is now. These things are clear if one looks at them from an unsullied viewpoint. That viewpoint, unfortunatly, is difficult to achieve, especially when one is caught up in the rapture of organised religion. But, as I have said many times on this thread, it is important, vitally important.
Old 05-14-2006, 12:57 AM   #200
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Re: From Maynards Own Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenLost
Nothing you've said has hurt me, just concerns me. Its not just you who have a heart of stone. I did once. Its not because you don't share my beliefs, its because you were born that way; naturaly attracted to what will best benefit you.
Selfishness is the stone, the leaden grudge and pride is the chain that binds us to it.

Do not think that I am here for my own cause, there are much more enjoyable things i could be doing, even necessary things. But, for some reason, i feel moved, even inspired, to write all this here. Consider this. I do not know you, i don't think that you will have any impact on my life beyond this message board. So then, what reason is there for me to attempt to persuade you? I will gain nothing from it in any material or scociopolitical way. This is true, then i must accept that this is the 'immediate influence of God'.
Sorry, I have been out of this loop for such a period that it has grown three pages, but I must go back to this post and re-address the "heart of stone" issue. You are being disturbingly presumptuous here and also with your characterisation of paraflux. It seems that you are unwilling to take my character on face value (as little face as I have revealed) but rather would present me as something that you once were, simply because I am not what you are now. You say it is because we are all born selfish and apparently can only rid ourselves of that through Christ. Your rule book says that is the way things are, so it is unnecessary for you to actually come to know me as another human being to witness the possible virtue of my character. Instead, your rules say that it is plain that I must have a selfish heart because I clearly have not done what is needed to transform it.

This is a good example of how beliefs divide people. You are unwilling to accept that I may actually be a good person with pure intentions if I am not of your chosen group. I must change to your prescribed result for you to accept me as a person who is healthy, selfless and worthy(or suitably unworthy if you want to talk about my unending sinfulness). My actions in my relations with others are kind and honourable to a high degree that I hold as most sensibly important. And it is important. We are a world at war. One must be vigilant in their actions to ensure virtue is at their core and is emanating to the world. I do not act nice in an attempt to secure my place in heaven, that is foolish and false. I am not interested in my conclusion or inclusion, I am concerned with our wellbeing, not only at this critical time in history but for any time (as, clearly, one thing leads to another). We are at war with one another - or so most of choose - and beliefs are at the centre of our reason for this. It is inevitable, if I was to choose to centre my thoughts on a belief system, such as Christianity for example, then I would feel the need to partake in this war in some way. Of course, it would make perfect sense then. Then I could base my decisions on the teachings of others through history who too have waged wars and have experience with this kind of thing. It would become important which side I chose, which course of action I would take to encourage these people here or discourage these people there. I am not saying that you would fight because you are Christian and thats what your beliefs tell you - I don't know that about you. But I am sure you would do something, something that you believe to be right according to the most wise and almighty. And this action, whatever it may be, will be inevitably in conflict with the thoughts and actions of those who hold a different set of beliefs, in this case namely Muslims. That conflict is impossible to resolve while the beliefs still exist and that is why, over time, this conflict has evolved into the crisis that it is now. These things are clear if one looks at them from an unsullied viewpoint. That viewpoint, unfortunatly, is difficult to achieve, especially when one is caught up in the rapture of organised religion. But, as I have said many times on this thread, it is important, vitally important.
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