First of all, hello to all. This is my first post, i didn't think to write about this when i signed in but i saw the link to Maynard and the fan on youtube and thought to share what i felt about it.
I really love Tool. I'm addicted to their music and love what their songs mean to me and what i understand from them, about life, people, what we can be and the message of thinking for yourself at all times.
This is why it was so hard for me to see Maynard's action's on stage in this video. It contradicts to me a lot of what he says and writes about [and Tool's in general].
I really hope this was staged. it would be much more reasonable to me. I love Tool and really respect Maynard for his ideas, point of view and action, that's why it's really hard for me to see him in this video. didn't expect from someone who sings "we are all one", "Crucify the ego" and becoming better human beings to give some dush a trauma for his life, how wrong and stupid the fan was.
Humiliating someone like that in front of a crowd.
and if the fan was trippin' and needed to be "calmed and taken care of" [like some said] i'm sure there are much better more "caring" ways than this [i would want to die if i'd be in a situation like that].
To me it just showed an ugly side of Maynard i'm sad to see. if this was actually not staged, and i really hope it was. I know we are all humans and have good and bad but this to me just contradicts a lot of what seemed to be Tool's principals and view of how to act, Especially when this clearly seems to be a fan wasted and not some evil example that need's to be taught a lesson. It seemd to me to be "part of the show" not caring what it does to someone else.
btw as those of you who read the comments see i copyed my comment from youtube [as Filthyjuden] and pasted it as a part of this message.
I just wish to see what other Tool fans think of this, not just the "blood sucking croewd" on youtube cheering "yay i'd do that too if someone came like that at me ha ha".
Hm...the guy wanted attention, and jumped on the stage. And Maynard put him on the ground and sang while on top of him. I don't think you can get a much better seat to hear Tool than that. At least security didn't get hold of him. Ever jump on stage at a show like that? Depending on the security they'll do anything from just shove you down to stomping you to the ground and beating your ass.
Remember that whole Dimebag Darrell thing? I wouldn't trust any stranger to get up on stage. I remember seeing Rollins back when and someone got on stage and punched him in the stomach. Fuck that shit...
if the fan didn't give a shit about his own pride and/or potential humiliation before getting up there, then why do you? take personal responsibility, but don't overstep it and miss the point. it kinda makes me wonder if you were ever restrained against your will - no judgement or whatever, but if so, i'm willing to bet it was under much different circumstances.
back to the fan ...seems like he drank a lot, meditated heavily, or tripped sac sooo hard that he was somehow able to block out an entire venue of roaring other fans (like a zazen master or some shit). because if that's not the case - and it wasn't staged - then the fan of the band was not a fan of anyone else, and he probably didn't give a fuck. i think maynard spotted this as the potential hazard and moved quickly and responsibly. his whole act is about combating fevered egos! just think about the tyler durden paper street mantras maynard could've been whispering to the guy while restrained... lol.
ok, expectation goes hand in hand with disappointment, but if you're actually suggesting that we all need to stand still and contemplate, stop what we're all doing and feeling, and wonder about what it is we're doing here ...watching a fan get taken down by the lead singer of tool ...during one of the most climatic breakdowns in all of tool history?! what are you saying?
i for one am not about the violence or the taking away of free will or compromising personal space or even humiliation, but the situation played out that way because what the fuck else could be done? i can't think of a thing. knock-out gas? quick-action hypnosis? trapped door leading to a playroom pool of multi colored plastic balls? i couldn't be more impressed with how calm and collected maynard was in dealing with the situation. as far as rock legends go, that's a professional. the amount of discipline... i mean, come on. what discipline did the fan show?
and maynard didn't treat him as evil, he treated him as someone who was wasted and disruptive of the performance, maynard's own personal space/art, and the entire energy involved within the moment. so what's your beef exactly?
if we assume this fan was wasted, therfor not aware of his actions so much and not aware of the consequences his actions may have, why should he be held down for so long, not just held but ridden like a donkey..
of course i wouldn't do such a thing as come up to the stage like that but it doesn't seem like he intended to hurt anyone - he was just wasted and too enthusiastic...they could easily got him off stage in a different way than handeling him with martial arts.
again, even if someone does something stupid and doesn't seem to be aware of his actions should he be punished like that? it seems to me very humiliating and that there could be so many other ways of handeling the situation [without the effort of calming him down in a room full of colored plastic balls]. i'm not saying the fan should have been taken care of and gently relaxed or something, but only that the reaction of maynard seems to me very excesive and negative if the point was to teach the guy a lesson, control or "relax" him.
and common, you all could see the fan didn't opose a threat on maynard in any way, it just seems to be a way of putting him down in an extreme way..he didn't come lashing at the band or trying to sabotage any of the equipment to which you would expect such violance [even if it isn't demonstrated in fists and kicks].
i'm not ahead of any organization that takes care of wasted, confused and stupid people but i just feel the reaction was as wrong as the action that caused it.
i'm not gonna assume shit. in that situation all you can assume is that there was somebody looking to disrupt evvvvvvvvvvvvverything that was going on then and there. and yeah the guy KNOWS of martial arts ...but that wasn't martial arts dude. and it's not like maynard was flicking him in the back of the ear while pinning him down. he was simply restraining the fan fuck up from fucking everything up and ended up doing security's job better than they could. so yeah, heel at the crotch ...as a precautionary measure. pfft, "not just held but ridden like a donkey"??? ...that's ridiculous. he wasn't trying to get from point A to point B on this asshole's back; now who's the "dush"? have you ever been "ridden like a donkey"?
also, people need to get over their humiliations, whatever they may be. their pathetic hang-ups (culturally embedded, encouraged ...and even, by the looks of it, rewarded?). hell - maynard's up on stage each night making a complete ass of himself, but because he doesn't care how others judge him it becomes genuine for him ...and inspiring for everyone else, reflecting as a tool for one to "get over yourself".
confused alcoholics are not welcomed on stage. when have they ever been?
__________________ i know, shit!
Last edited by iAMtheMA!; 08-08-2011 at 04:49 AM..
just imagine being the band and seeing this drunk idiot some up on stage. They have no idea what he is capable of doing whether he would try to disrupt their performance by trying to hug adam jones or kick over danny's drum set or violently attack maynard. Bands like Tool get hardcore fans which means some are going to be obsessed in a sick and perverted way. Like the fan that wrote a letter to maynard in his own blood. You have to be rady to expect anything from a fan if youre Tool.
Maynard acted in his and the and's self defense by putting that asshole down. The fan probably wasnt going to do anything violent but even him just being up on stage is a huge distraction but it makes everyone nervous. i have no sympathy for the fan. But i have a feelig that the fan enjoyed that experience and is somewhee out in the world bragging about this experience.
yeah man, he's "the fan" now. (the third google search link under keywords "tool" and "fan").
and i think it was mutual. two spirits, coming together, hugging it out. of course, maynard may have felt it at one level, "the fan" another (see "crawl away" lyrics) ...but you don't have to be gay to know that - however you define it - this was actually more of a beautiful moment. action, reaction. no one intended to hurt the other, nothing about it was malicious. and so the show must go on. golden recovery.
i wouldn't have the testicular/egoistic fortitude to be so rude, especially when it concerns making an interruption of art (my major) and/or music (my minor), but it was a unique situation. i shouldn't be this jealous of "the fan"... but i am kinda, and so are a lot of people i bet. i know i've never met maynard! have you?
...some would literally do -anything- to meet maynard, even if it means invading his personal space/art. and he's well aware of this, hence his desire to maintain a private life, all the self-defense and martial art disciplines he's into, and then the lyrics.
anyone else think it kinda synchronous that this occurs during the song "pushit"?
just remember i will always love you
even as i tear your fucking throat away
but it will end no other way! -_-
__________________ i know, shit!
Last edited by iAMtheMA!; 08-08-2011 at 01:39 PM..
I'm Just trying to think for myself, question the whole "maynard authority" [even he is such for a lot of fans]. I don't see something wrong in raising questions to action's of someone i really appreciate and respect even if this might be a stupid not such of a big deal thing that happened.. for me it's the same "think for yourself question authority". asking myself if despite my huge respect for him do i find this ok with me.
Just my thought!
I'm aware that my reaction to this video is probably because i'm a bit sensitive and even though i wouldn't act the way the fan did i don't think this was the way to react. still, only my opinion and i think it's good to share different opinions [especially when i'm asking to hear other opinions and not just ridicule thoughts different than mine.
Seems to me everything Maynard will do will be accepted by a lot of his loyal following fans as holy and great. i'm just giving a different point of view, just to mix this whole sheep-like uniformity
well it wasnt like he was beating the shit out of him, it looks like a real restraint. having been trained in personal restraint for the work i do. maynard was keeping everyone safe.
sheep like uniformity? you need to read more in this forum. many in this community wouldnt deny it if you called him a pretentious sissy pants.
also stop comparing people to sheep, we are people. its also not fair to the sheep.
still, only my opinion and i think it's good to share different opinions [especially when i'm asking to hear other opinions and not just ridicule thoughts different than mine.
Seems to me everything Maynard will do will be accepted by a lot of his loyal following fans as holy and great. i'm just giving a different point of view, just to mix this whole sheep-like uniformity
well, i hope this conversation was helpful in shedding some light on the subject, different avenues of thought, different viewpoints, et al. there's already enough of a mix within these responses to suggest that it was far more a matter of the situation (i.e. the set and setting of the moment) than it was of maynard (the man himself *testify!!!) "choosing to make a spectacle, and humiliate" by being on top of "any fan - it could've been you!". you don't have to be "loyal" or think "holy" anything of maynard to know that. if you don't have a better example (i.e. more logical, refined, and compassionate) for the appropriate (re)action, then you're not really stirring anything here, just ridiculing - hell, of course i FELT BAD for the guy ...but if that's what we're analyzing here...
where's the opinion? ...also, hyperbolizing only works for so long.
__________________ If I'm on the toilet longer than 2 minutes I'm jerking off. - (jag) toolhed46n2//support your loco bands
Bin Purpose: You are the real fluxerpretation, its true personification. TOYKO!! R.I.P. The Alien Gus
I think it was staged. If it wasn't, why didn't security come out and get the guy? They just let him stay there on stage the entire time...
That's exactly my point! in the beginning i said i'm really hoping this was staged. It did seem reasonable and i thought it was, but it seemd to me most of the people who watched it see it as an authentic incident and reacted with enthusiasm. However, as i raised the question, if in theory it isn't staged why was this the odd reaction to the abrupting fan? there are so many other ways more reasonable and suited [you can think of them yourself..there are plenty that come to mind] and i don't see what's so great about maynard's action's if they were not staged and were a real reaction to the event.
The idea that maynard was "keeping everyone safe" seems ridiculous to me..what is he, a singer, boxer-wearing performer and a law enforcement officer there to keep the universe safe from harm? Common...Maynard isn't god [despite the understandable need of fans to think that way].
To me it seems reasonable it was staged just for the reaction of people to the whole scene, as Tool seems to do a lot, i.e die ier von satan or like the "Tool Army". in the Tool page people have [or seem to have] the option of registering as a "tool army" member and "Pay only 99$ to get a plastic tag with your name as a member"..Hilarious and thought provocing, but obviously not a real deal as i think tool band members hope their fans, despite "loving them crazy" won't play as...sorry to say, sheeps].
Speeking of sheeps ...in 1993 Tool was scheduled to play at the Garden Pavilion in Hollywood but learned at the last minute that the Garden Pavilion belonged to L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology..... Keenan "spent most of the show baa-ing like a sheep at the audience".
As i said before, to me it seems to counter all of what maynard seems to be behind [read or watch interviews..i don't have a good way or more energy to summerize it up now].
I'm not at all against a staged performance like this and as one it is funny. I just wanted to see what people [that assume it's for real] think about it and what is their own opinion.
if we assume this fan was wasted, therfor not aware of his actions so much and not aware of the consequences his actions may have, why should he be held down for so long, not just held but ridden like a donkey..
of course i wouldn't do such a thing as come up to the stage like that but it doesn't seem like he intended to hurt anyone - he was just wasted and too enthusiastic...they could easily got him off stage in a different way than handeling him with martial arts.
again, even if someone does something stupid and doesn't seem to be aware of his actions should he be punished like that? it seems to me very humiliating and that there could be so many other ways of handeling the situation [without the effort of calming him down in a room full of colored plastic balls]. i'm not saying the fan should have been taken care of and gently relaxed or something, but only that the reaction of maynard seems to me very excesive and negative if the point was to teach the guy a lesson, control or "relax" him.
and common, you all could see the fan didn't opose a threat on maynard in any way, it just seems to be a way of putting him down in an extreme way..he didn't come lashing at the band or trying to sabotage any of the equipment to which you would expect such violance [even if it isn't demonstrated in fists and kicks].
i'm not ahead of any organization that takes care of wasted, confused and stupid people but i just feel the reaction was as wrong as the action that caused it.
Apparently you were never spanked as a child. The fan deserved it for being a dumb jackass ignorant fanboy. Maynard didn't even hurt him, he hip tossed him, choked him out and then sat down on him and pat him on the head while finishing his performance. What's the big deal dude? You do know Maynard's a cynic, right? I wouldn't call him a hypocrite, he's human just like the rest of us.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
That's exactly my point! in the beginning i said i'm really hoping this was staged. It did seem reasonable and i thought it was, but it seemd to me most of the people who watched it see it as an authentic incident and reacted with enthusiasm. However, as i raised the question, if in theory it isn't staged why was this the odd reaction to the abrupting fan? there are so many other ways more reasonable and suited [you can think of them yourself..there are plenty that come to mind] and i don't see what's so great about maynard's action's if they were not staged and were a real reaction to the event.
The idea that maynard was "keeping everyone safe" seems ridiculous to me..what is he, a singer, boxer-wearing performer and a law enforcement officer there to keep the universe safe from harm? Common...Maynard isn't god [despite the understandable need of fans to think that way].
To me it seems reasonable it was staged just for the reaction of people to the whole scene, as Tool seems to do a lot, i.e die ier von satan or like the "Tool Army". in the Tool page people have [or seem to have] the option of registering as a "tool army" member and "Pay only 99$ to get a plastic tag with your name as a member"..Hilarious and thought provocing, but obviously not a real deal as i think tool band members hope their fans, despite "loving them crazy" won't play as...sorry to say, sheeps].
Speeking of sheeps ...in 1993 Tool was scheduled to play at the Garden Pavilion in Hollywood but learned at the last minute that the Garden Pavilion belonged to L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology..... Keenan "spent most of the show baa-ing like a sheep at the audience".
As i said before, to me it seems to counter all of what maynard seems to be behind [read or watch interviews..i don't have a good way or more energy to summerize it up now].
I'm not at all against a staged performance like this and as one it is funny. I just wanted to see what people [that assume it's for real] think about it and what is their own opinion.
Again, Maynard isn't exactly known to be a big fan of the fans that are fucking idiots, you know, the morons that mosh during Wings and throw shit at the concerts and idolize him, maybe even make little Maynard shrines and such....I don't blame him, I would have no empathy for some souless person like that either. Fuck that fan, I would've punched him in the face if he came at me like that on stage...how dare he fucking nearly ruin the show and the performance, what a fucking asshole....but to each their own perspective.
Perhaps if someone randomly fucked with you or attacked you you would just sit there and cry wondering why instead of defending yourself or feeling anger towards them - maybe someone should "wake you up" to reality
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Again, Maynard isn't exactly known to be a big fan of the fans that are fucking idiots, you know, the morons that mosh during Wings and throw shit at the concerts and idolize him, maybe even make little Maynard shrines and such....I don't blame him, I would have no empathy for some souless person like that either. Fuck that fan
Are you really comparing a situation like this of a kid-fan who's obviously not in control, unaware and probably stupid, that comes to hug Maynard out of too much enthusiasm to that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_Eulogy
...how dare he fucking nearly ruin the show and the performance
No way [!] he could ruin any part of the show...Exactly for that there are guards there [The same way the second guy that came on stage was treated]. And as for the performance..if, if this wasn't staged i think the performance was Maynard's action's not singing or anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_Eulogy
Perhaps if someone randomly fucked with you or attacked you you would just sit there and cry wondering why instead of defending yourself or feeling anger towards them - maybe someone should "wake you up" to reality
Oh common..We're not talking about a situation where Maynard is all alone in a dark alley with his kid after Borito Night, suddenly attacked by some crazy fan. He's on the fucking stage with guards around him ready for this shit that might happen..As i said, what is he, a law enforcement officer? No one said he's supposed to sit down and give hugs and kisses to each fan [souless, idolizing zombie, stupid moron...what else?] who comes up on stage, and if this wasn't really staged, of course i think they should have gotten the fan the hell out of there. But to toss him on his back, sit on him for ten minutes, give him patts on the head and rub himself against him like their two dog's on a date? ...Yeah, that's just the reasonable way would expect anyone to act.
I don't think i'm the one who's naive. There are plenty of people there on stage who's job is to take care oh these scenarios, without keeping the guy in front of the crowd like a "See what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass" example.
i think you're choosing to see this whole thing in one very specific and unlikely light. they weren't putting on a 30,000 fan safety seminar. or do you not value art or what? the fan threatened his art, his band's art. answer to that. the fan thought he could do whatever the fuck he wanted, sober or otherwise... premeditated. do you fuckin' cry when some dui asshole's pulled out of his wreckage, in front of the hour and half of backed traffic he created? how humiliated he must've been ...and it was on COPS last night, i saw it.
and i have no idea how the only way you're able to justify humiliation in this situation is by the ego-trippin' whims of law enforcement officers (who are paid by the state) ...and NOT artists or musicians (who are generally over-looked by the state). i find it "interesting" (there, a seemingly neutral but ultimately unnecessary yet still condescending notation).
the fan threatened his art, his band's art. answer to that. the fan thought he could do whatever the fuck he wanted, sober or otherwise... premeditated.
How many times can i say this again and again: I don't think they should let the fan stay on stage jumping, hugging, kissing and massaging Maynard's sore back..I wrote plenty of times that of course they should have gotten him off stage but what i'm talking about [and trying to make clear for too many times] is the way it went [again, assuming this wasn't a staged act]. The fan could have been easily been taken care of by the guards around, without Maynard needed to show his martial arts skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
do you fuckin' cry when some dui asshole's pulled out of his wreckage, in front of the hour and half of backed traffic he created? how humiliated he must've been ...and it was on COPS last night, i saw it.
Again, as i said I'm not sympathetic for the fan or what he's done just the same as i wouldn't cry for the drunk driver..However if your giving this ridiculous comparison, yes, I don't see any cops taking the DUI guy and draging him all over town for people to see what happens to some idiot who does a thing like that. We're not in the days where these are the punishments for doing something wrong, stupid or annoying. You see them arrest him, take him away and that's it...That's what i'm talking about! Not that the fan/dui driver is innocent or done nothing wrong but about the measures of reaction taken.. and if they are wrong or right in your opinion.
I hope i don't need to go through this again. I guess next time I'll just copy what i've said before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
and i have no idea how the only way you're able to justify humiliation in this situation is by the ego-trippin' whims of law enforcement officers (who are paid by the state) ...and NOT artists or musicians (who are generally over-looked by the state). i find it "interesting" (there, a seemingly neutral but ultimately unnecessary yet still condescending notation).
I'm not to justify any ego-trippin' whims by anyone. That's the whole thing I"m against here and that's what seems wrong to me about Maynard's reaction [assuming it is authentic and not staged]..That it is more ego-based than based on the justified wish of keeping on with the show and preventing interruption which as i said has much better and plain ways of doing.
"Interesting" enough, it does seem your just wishinhg to come out as condescending rather than trying to really understand what i'm saying and replying to it in context, rather than comparing my ideas to ridiculous out of context examples [i.e the dui driver].
What's the point of replying if your just twisting what I've said and making an unnecessary irrelevant argument.
How many times can i say this again and again: I don't think they should let the fan stay on stage jumping, hugging, kissing and massaging Maynard's sore back..I wrote plenty of times that of course they should have gotten him off stage but what i'm talking about [and trying to make clear for too many times] is the way it went [again, assuming this wasn't a staged act]. The fan could have been easily been taken care of by the guards around, without Maynard needed to show his martial arts skills.
[1] i never said you thought "they should let the fan stay on stage, jumping, hugging, kissing, and/or massaging maynard's sore back". i wasn't even thinking about (and would have no idea) whether or not his back was sore; from what i can only guess, i doubt he'd even be as worried (as you're suggesting) about something like that given e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g that was going on then/there. "wait, side bar to the show, everybody! i'm maynard, ego-tripping, i have a microphone and boxers on so, you know, i can do this! but my back -is- killing me, you understand..." so +1 hyperbole to you. [2] nobody was arguing that they shouldn't have taken the fan off-stage, in fact it was mentioned on a few ocassions that drunken louts aren't usually welcomed or permitted to remain on stage, especially when it comes to an interuption of art/music. [3] you were pretty fuckin' clear about your "choosing to see this whole thing in one very specific and unlikely light". that's why my argument had nothing to do with how long the fan was on stage, and everything to do with "the way it went". [4] you're essentially promoting that the rules of existence (as far as "civilized" societies go) - when it comes to any such disturbance - must always be dealt by law-abiding apprehension and immediate removal. a few things then... [a] what rights do artists have over the adaptation/preservation/integrity of the piece/bit when it's already taken from them (without permission) and manipulated in front of everyone? i have severe stage fright myself - for a variety of reasons - but it's only because maynard's of such strong determination to translate his artistic vision that HE doesn't feel humilated by the fan! do you see the "one very specific" light i'm referring to here? [b] maynard refers to his albums and songs as transcending and sacred to him as his own family and children - he considers it a pure expression of himself (that's why he's so goddamn talented). so what's the proper retaliation? THAT WAS MY QUESTION!!! +1 misdirection attempt [c] also, what's to keep this asshole from doing something like this again? if you knew it was wrong, and it shouldn't've happened ...i mean you don't want to keep enabling bullshit like this, do you? so really, fuck his pride. this douchenozzle didn't deserve "law-abiding apprehension and immediate removal". that's the authoritative measure maynard questioned. punishment wouldn't've fit the crime - so go ahead, teach him a lesson. sometimes riding a fan in front of 30,000 people is the only way to get through to them ...maynard could just be a master teacher and you didn't even care to think about that! [5] again, no martial arts. that's another +1 hyperbole to you. cut the shit.
Again, as i said I'm not sympathetic for the fan or what he's done just the same as i wouldn't cry for the drunk driver..However if your giving this ridiculous comparison, yes, I don't see any cops taking the DUI guy and draging him all over town for people to see what happens to some idiot who does a thing like that. We're not in the days where these are the punishments for doing something wrong, stupid or annoying. You see them arrest him, take him away and that's it...That's what i'm talking about! Not that the fan/dui driver is innocent or done nothing wrong but about the measures of reaction taken.. and if they are wrong or right in your opinion.
I hope i don't need to go through this again. I guess next time I'll just copy what i've said before.
[6] it's not really such a bad comparison. in fact, the only thing "ridiculous" here is your interpretation of the metaphor ...which suggests that maynard took the drunken piece of shit all over the venue - person to person - for everyone "to see what happens" to someone who gets up on stage during a show that wasn't their own. [7] no we're not in the days where punishments (for any such wrongdoing) are able to be handed out by just anyone, however artists are standing up for themselves more ...oh, wait ...they've been having to do that since fuckin' forever. [8] and if you fuckin' copy/paste ONE MORE THING i swear to god i will leave this thread, giving up all hope for humanity and its ability to hold a constructive, well-meaning, and thought-provoking conversation... ACTUALLY read what's posted, say something NEW, progress the ideas HERE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake me up
I'm not to justify any ego-trippin' whims by anyone. That's the whole thing I"m against here and that's what seems wrong to me about Maynard's reaction [assuming it is authentic and not staged]..That it is more ego-based than based on the justified wish of keeping on with the show and preventing interruption which as i said has much better and plain ways of doing.
"Interesting" enough, it does seem your just wishinhg to come out as condescending rather than trying to really understand what i'm saying and replying to it in context, rather than comparing my ideas to ridiculous out of context examples [i.e the dui driver].
[9] i wasn't suggesting that the artist/musicians would ego-trip; thanks again for that interpretation. i was saying that if it were up to law-enforcement officers, it would probably be handled with some amount of ego-tripping. artist verse the cop? are you kidding me? this is grade school hazing rights all over again! this time backed by the state! [10] and as i've asked before, what are these "much better and plain ways of doing"? and you can't just say that there are better ways ...we're not all of atlantean super-consciousness yet... [11] and finally, i'd appear more condescending (not that this is the ultimate goal here) if you actually read my posts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake me up
What's the point of replying if your just twisting what I've said and making an unnecessary irrelevant argument.
exactly. except one of us has at least +2 for hyberpolizing, sooooooo....
__________________ i know, shit!
Last edited by iAMtheMA!; 08-13-2011 at 04:51 AM..
Wow, this is unbelievable. There's no way i think one of us can feel the other one understands what he's meaning. I feel like my words here manipulated by a very good witty lawer. Maybe you feel the same [only without the part where you might see me as witty].
It seems nothing of how my posts were interpreted got through my point or made it any clear.
Just for one example of this dialogue of the deaf - I didn't really mean Maynard had any sore back or whatever, it was just adding some humor, so replying by how could i know he had a sore back and taking it too literaly and seriously..This to me seems to be just one example of the major problem in this "discussion".
I really hoped for a better exchange of thought and ideas but it seems no matter how i try to explain myself and my point of view it gets more misinterpreted.
I hope there would be someone else that might have the energy going through this whole debate [what looks more like a complicated negotiation contract] and find some different interpretation to what I've tried to say. I guess that's not likely looking at the history of this thread.
I think i tried explaining myself enough times and so I'll stop trying to get my point through anymore. Don't worry, i won't copy my previous points, it's all written in the previous messages.
i just wanted to jump on you and ride this 'til the end on the song, i mean discussion.
honestly though, i've had this exact same conversation, same video, same everything ...except not with the same person. and because of this, i went ahead and assumed that you may have been restrained and/or humiliated in some similar fashion at some point in time in your life - probably not on the same scale, but again i don't know. that's what happened to my friend at least. so while only a quick 'throw-in' to my argument (which probably wasn't true), i nevertheless wanted to test the waters here ...'cause i don't want to offend you in the slightest. i don't know anything about you other than your sensitive/compassionate/questioning nature; so let's be clear: i admire your concern and have nothing against you at all ...especially if you feel you've been in the fan's position.
but besides that assumption, yes, i've tried to be literal - the metaphors are there, but i wasn't trying to be over-the-top with any of them really. the whole point of this conversation is that you can't assume too much. maynard probably thought "oh, so this random guy wants to be part of the show? well, i certainly wasn't planning on it (in fact, i've a few dozen security guards who don't deserve any pay after all this), but sure ...we might be able to find a role for you ...the fan". he's an artist, he's adaptable, and he's entertaining. when life handed him a (drunkened) lemon, he made a shot glass of hard lemonade.
i could understand from the first time i had this conversation why the opposition existed. the friend of mine had been admitted to a psyche ward 3 or 4 times and had to deal with being restrained often. a lot of tool's "wisdom" actually helped him sooth a fringe narcissistic outlook that was almost entirely introverted and without consideration of the whole - he couldn't see beyond his own past and only interacted with people to help enable his lifetime act of playing the victim. i even understood why he was restrained a few times, i'm even glad it happened. so ...it's not like "take downs" shouldn't happen ...but even if this instance here wasn't as severe as someone jamming the fist down their own throats or slamming their head into the wall ...just for the "stimulation" of it ...maynard is still not a trained professional anything when it comes to doing security/enforcement's job. all i'm saying is cut him some goddamned slack. if a security guard did what maynard did, and it wasn't to protocol ...he might've gotten laid off. maybe.
I just skimmed through this thread and all I can think is that 'wake me up' would probably let a drunk walk away from the fatal crash he just caused because he "wasn't aware of his actions".
__________________ Plea bargin'd into being a Self-Admitted-Alias.
"Shut up bitch. Get back to me after you try peeing from a vagina into a cup in public through your jeans." - Pala Cósmico
Are you really comparing a situation like this of a kid-fan who's obviously not in control, unaware and probably stupid, that comes to hug Maynard out of too much enthusiasm to that?
No way [!] he could ruin any part of the show...Exactly for that there are guards there [The same way the second guy that came on stage was treated]. And as for the performance..if, if this wasn't staged i think the performance was Maynard's action's not singing or anything else.
Oh common..We're not talking about a situation where Maynard is all alone in a dark alley with his kid after Borito Night, suddenly attacked by some crazy fan. He's on the fucking stage with guards around him ready for this shit that might happen..As i said, what is he, a law enforcement officer? No one said he's supposed to sit down and give hugs and kisses to each fan [souless, idolizing zombie, stupid moron...what else?] who comes up on stage, and if this wasn't really staged, of course i think they should have gotten the fan the hell out of there. But to toss him on his back, sit on him for ten minutes, give him patts on the head and rub himself against him like their two dog's on a date? ...Yeah, that's just the reasonable way would expect anyone to act.
I don't think i'm the one who's naive. There are plenty of people there on stage who's job is to take care oh these scenarios, without keeping the guy in front of the crowd like a "See what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass" example.
Me thinks you ARE that dude...Maynard whooped you dude, finish crying and put your panties back on
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
What's the point of replying if your just twisting what I've said and making an unnecessary irrelevant argument.
Sooo, in other words, your also protesting for Muslims to wear their full face masks in the US for their Driver's License pictures and also free healthcare for all illegal aliens....I see where this is going.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
I just skimmed through this thread and all I can think is that 'wake me up' would probably let a drunk walk away from the fatal crash he just caused because he "wasn't aware of his actions".
Hi elusivEuphoria! I never had any qualms about what Maynard did, in fact I always thought it was kinda sweet of him to ride the boy like that. I would be honored if I been the one being took down by Maynard. It always seemed strangely coincidental that it happened during Pushit too...
I will choke until I swallow...
Choke this infant here before me.
What is this but my reflection?
Who am I to judge and strike you down?
But you're
Pushing and shoving me.
You still love me and you pushit on me.
Rest your trigger on my finger,
bang my head upon the fault line.
Take care not to make me enter.
'cause if I do we both may disappear.
But you're pushing me,
Shoving me. Pushit on me.
Slipping back into the gap again.
I'm alive when you're touching me,
Alive when you're shoving me down.
But i'd trade it all
For just a little bit of
Piece of mind.
Put me somewhere I don't wanna be.
Seeing someplace I don't wanna see.
Never wanna see that place again.
Saw that gap again today
As you were begging me to stay.
Managed to push myself away,
And you, as well.
If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay,
You minimize my movement anyway,
I must persuade you another way.
There's no love in fear.
Staring down the hole again.
Hands upon my back again.
Survival is my only friend.
Terrified of what may come.
Just remember I will always love you,
Even as I tear your fucking throat away.
But it will end no other way.
I honestly can only read a small portion of what you, wake me up, and a lot of other long winded posters write. It is anything but succinct and full of what seems to be unnecessary detail and petty argumentation that I get a headache and just go back to reading a Dostoevsky novel.
I've thought that too about it happening during pushit. Its almost as tho the mood of the song demanded that maynard tackle the guy and do what he did. Its as though maynard simply never broke character.
Whereas you look at that video when a fan rushed the stage during Wings and maynard just stopped singing for the rest of the song. That guy had already killed the mood for maynard and made a mockery of what is certainly a personal song for maynard.
Both reactions are appropriate given the context of the performance.
Then there is the laser pointer show where maynard walked off-stage, waited for the song to end, came back on stage for the next song, grabbed the mic and sang the rest of the show facing away from the crowd.
The latter two may come across like more "diva-moments", but maynard could be a lot more inappropriate if he wanted to, but he doesn't. He could stop the whole song and bitch and moan to the crowd about what a relative few are doing, take it way too personally and ruin the whole show. At least he doesn't pull that shit.
He will at some point probably.
Wouldn't put it past him to eventually loss his cool.
__________________ Plea bargin'd into being a Self-Admitted-Alias.
"Shut up bitch. Get back to me after you try peeing from a vagina into a cup in public through your jeans." - Pala Cósmico
Just to put another perspective out there...
Why does there have to be only one way to deal with a situation like this? (that is, the official way: security coming and taking the guy away)
My impression is that Maynard is saying that the stage is their territory and if you stray into it you have to play by their rules. Taking control of the situation the way he did is more mature and less diva-ish than waiting for the brawny men to come 'protect' them from the 'public'. Especially when these men have failed to stop people coming on stage in the first place.
When I watch the recording of this incident, it seems to me that the way Maynard handled it was full of compassion for the fan and the audience as a whole. Letting the guards deal with it would have separated the band and the audience much more into 'us and them and make sure they don't get too close'. As it happened, it was just people acting and reacting.
If you think about it, Maynard gave the fan exactly what he wanted (to be as close to Maynard as possible) but on his own terms in a way that he would feel in control and not threatened while showing he's boss with a little reprimand for the idiot underneath him. It's that mixture of love and hate reflected in the song. Anyway, you can see that the fan is happy with this situation if you watch the footage so why feel bad for him?
I don't think this was staged at all but I think Maynard took advantage of the situation to reflect the song and probably his own mood.
... He could stop the whole song and bitch and moan to the crowd about what a relative few are doing, take it way too personally and ruin the whole show. At least he doesn't pull that shit."
