[QUOTE=Mortal Moxie]Its not the point. It's that 1: He did it first, and 2: You didn't. QUOTE]

some people like some craft to their art. it seems today that craft plays second fiddle to the idea.

much of modern art, the stuff that isnt 100% a con, is masturbation.

for instance, mondrians ideas are not such that they needed to be painted. and they demonstrate very little painterly skill.

just because you have an idea doesnt make you an artist. your choice of medium should be relevant and you should have some kind of craft-like skill, as far as i am concerned.

otherwise what are you?

end with a question, get a smart answer...

Whoever says Adam is a shitty guitar player is an idiot.

adam's work has always moved me leaps and bounds he may not be fucking fripp....but he is in my heart a great player and artist with a vocation and a languge that turns me over all the time

I get tired of hearing people argue over technicalities. If it sounds good, so bit it. You don't have to prove you're godly by consistently hitting 27 simultaneous notes. Fuck that, do what sounds good..simple or not.

Comments such as have absolutely no purpose. Keep your fucking utterances to yourself, or back them up with evidence and form arguments. Pathetic

Adam is the Tony Iommi for our time. What they both lacked in talent (when compared to likes of Paige) they more than make up for in creativity and raw passion. I'll take that over "I wonder how fast I can play the Phrygian mode" anyday. In the end, I think AJ and TI have done more to push the envelope of metal than the Kirk Hammet's out there. Just my personal opinion...

But did Tony Iomi make a whole album out of recycled riffs and lose all previous ingenuity and artistic integrity? No

You're all arguing about whether you're arguing about technicality or not. In this album, Adam Jones is, in general, LESS technical than in other albums, Yes, there's a couple of quirky time signatures (but when compared to Meshuggah in terms of the craft of their riffs, Jambi is really quite bland and uninspired). Also on this album, regardless of his technical ability, even the simple bits Adam does are a little bit uninspired. I listen to 10,000 Days the track, and alot of the stuff there is really quite uninspired (or uninspiring for me, at least).

Adam is indeed not a very technical guitarist.. but his ability to compose riffs, that fit Danny's drumming and Maynard's singing perfectly, is amazing.
I think if he would've taken his creativity and shaped it in some kind music education, he could be a really ground breaking guitarist. (on the other hand, education may hurt creativity).

You can hear alot of technical stuff in music, but it has no soul.. (Spastic Ink for example).

Bottom line - this is how things are.. you should just enjoy the music..

Technique gives us the means to realise our artistic vision. Clearly Adam Jones has such means.


Jones > Malmsteen
Jones > Vai
Jones > Satriani
Jones > Petrucci
Jones > God

The problem is some guitarists dont have any artistic vision.

First of all the whole album isn't recycled riffs (though there are some striking similarities to Schism, Third Eye, and H. off the top of my head). You don't think Iommi had a characteristic sound and solo style? Many of his classic riffs seem to have a common thread to me. You can either call that recycling, or just a guitarist's musical signature. I'm not advocating "sticking to your guns" as a musician and never trying to evolve, but there's also much to be learned from exploring old ideas and making them sound different/new. All that said, I'll admit that after my first listen through the album, I wasn't blown away by Adam's playing...but that was also my first reaction to Third Eye (now prob my fav Tool song). I'm gonna hold my tongue for now, so I don't feel like an idiot later for pre-judging a piece of work befored I've totally wrapped my head around it.

Danny uses recycled drum styles, and patterns.

Justin uses the same bass tone, and some very similar riffs.

Maynard uses some recycled melodies, and old singing styles from Tools old work.


I guess this means tool sux right? Why is only the guitar player being singled out? Because his style is simplistic?

If you don't like Adams guitaring call their studio and ask them to send you the album with all the guitar tracks removed.

The talkbox solo may not be the most fucking amazing one pulled out in history of music but...
I'm pretty sure that it's maynard vocalizing trough the tube while adam plays (maybe later some comp voices) and that's the point of the song, what's tool about, how it started, adam and maynard. And knowing this, i can say "fuck if it ain't the most impressive, precise, all scales used solo, it's ADAM!!"

And yes he sucks, he knows it, he says it. But sucks just technically. He fucking plays what he feels and sees!!! And that¿s TOOL about, not being able to play like malmsteen and unleash the fockin' fury .

Without those "easy to play" riffs, Tool wouldn't be tool.

To me Adam's playing is simplistic and powerful, and perfectly compliments Danny and Justin. There's enough going on in most Tool tunes, you don't need a guitar player wanking off all over the place. He fits.

I've played guitar for over 25 years, am a fan of many different types of players, and don't see what the fuss is about Adam not being technical. I personally love his work within the context of Tool. If his shortcomings should bother you, listen to something else.

Personally, I like this effort much more than Lateralus, but to each his own.

I remember reading an interview where Adam said that when he saw other guitarists play, he felt shameful. He wasn't able to be nearly as technical as they were.

There are probably several guitarists on these forums that could play better than Adam can...but why isn't Adam checking out their forums?

From what I can hear, the drums are a bit muffled, though the double bass is more audible than on Lateralus.

AJ? The guitar gets the job done, and although it's simplicity, it sounds interesting. The focus on doing something interesting and original with that instument is a noteworthy act. My reaction when hearing the album, as a guitarist, was "Man, that is simple riff work. Man, it sounds AWESOME! How?!" Well, for starters, the man's got a concept of where he's going sound- and tone-wise. Incorporate that into the rhythmic layer and "there's gold in them there hills" ;)

The bass is punchy, clangy sorta, more audible, which is a good thing because a) most records are recorded and mixed in a way where you can't hear bass for shit, or barely hear it and b) because Justin's playing needs to be heard; at least he has a bassline that doesn't just overlap the guitar tone like the bald, bearded gimmick that is the SOAD bass player (who is PATHETIC live).

And with Maynard being blended in, it's really pointless to concentrate on individuals here. Everything is fitted to make one sound. Tool's sound. Bands that have their own sound today are hard to find. Oh, and overall, i don't know how they did this, how they got this effect, but this record does sound huge, like Adam said. I don't mean huge as in heavy, i mean HUGE as in MASSIVE.

i love black sabbath and i love tool. but im going to have to say that a good chunk of tonys riff catalog sounds way more similar than than the riffs in adams, and adam is simply using a similar type of riff as before. there isnt even one point where you can exactly say, "oh thats schism" or whatever you may think it sounds like. it may be a similar style or even the same key and notes, but its not the same riff.

also have you even heard the albums technical ecstasy or never say die? and those are with ozzy! come on dont tell me iommi didnt lose integrity over that! the song never say die is the same exact riff as thin lizzys the boys are back...and sabbath released the album a couple years after thin lizzy!

technical, not technical, whatever. what every musician aspires to is to find his "voice." this is done through a concept known as phrasing, as well as with tone. adam is a fucking genius guitar player. he isnt voted in the top 5 every year in most guitar magazines, by gutar players by accident. the greatest compliment that can be given any guitarist imo, and other guitarists will say the same, is that when you hear them, you immediately know who it is. when you hear adam jones, and i dont care what band he is playing with, he is instantly recognizable. he is a great guitarist, and has developed a personal style which is often imitated, but never equaled.

Adam has his own style of guitar playing, and if he chooses not be technical its his choice. Dont like his playing, then dont listen.

adam jones has NEVER been over the top technical... EVER.

but adam jones IS the main CENTER of tool... NOT maynard. (read guitar world if your dumbass didnt realise this FACT years ago) he writes solid pieces that everthing else can revolve around to create different soundscapes as he continues to hold the glue of the song (usually would be the bass, but as weve seen with bands like primus, the rules CAN and are sometimes broken by those who dare to create something other than run of the mill everyday pop rock, and now even pop metal like disturbed etc.)

dredg... dude how old are you? do you have nowhere else to go, things to do etc? are you going to be here a year from now still trying to convince people that this album is crap.

what are your favorite bands? i bet they are appauling.

im going to shoot some ideas... i bet you liked metalicas black album and everything since then? cold? disturbed? ooooooh they are heavy man!

if you want heavy fast and complex buy cannibal corpses new album (its the shiznit) if you want new tool buy 10,000 days, it rules and you would know that if you werent an idiot.

So damn pathetic.

i hope you just missed my sarcasm there...

i DONT like those bands and think they are for people with small minds that need something "heavy and mean" or it sucks... yet its still bublegum garbage, if you want heavy dont be a pussy go all the way to heavy.

if you want a good tool album... get 10,000 days.

people who hate this album yet post here all day everyday... THAT is pathetic.

Adam is a creative player not a technique quru
In my opinion much interesting then does fuckups like Malmsteen and other assheads that are STUCK in technique and the only way to do it is to SHRED IT...afther 4 songs it all sounds the same!
Usualy people that shred are lacking off creativity and melody playing, so they usualy wanna impress you with speed and nothing more.
I agree its impresive at first, but you get anyoed very fast!

I agree with you (slazem se sa tobom) my friend!

its called wrting a SONG.

;-) Novi Sad?

Writing a song, yep and not an scale exscersise or run!

i'd say 2 songs.

;-)

Personally, I love Adam's playing, and I think this song is great. I find it entirely ignorant and overall pretty useless to rate guitarists, by the way. Art is art. No one cares if you can play every Tool song or wrote a 30 minute epic with finger taps and every scale ever written. It doesn't make you better or worse, its just how you chose to express yourself using your instrument.

P.S. - I don't trust the opinion of anyone who says dredg "sucks," especially if their avatar is a tribute to Proof.

Aleksinac;

whatever technician he is, it's the beauty of the songs that matters!

I was real disappointed on my first superficial listen through of this album, but when I had time to listen closely, I heard a Tool that is actually pretty different than before and I could really appreciate the different direction they're taking. You can here the Meshuggah influence in that the guitar is a component of the rhythm section throughout most of the song, except where Meshuggah has very little melody in their songs except for the solos, and absolutely no melody in the singing, this song has some melodic content.

Maynard sings, and Justin's playing shifts from driving bass line to beautiful melody in the upper register. Then listen to Danny's playing all around the basic rhythm laid down by Adam, and you can see he's given more freedom to maneuver when he doesn't have to hold down the rhythm as much. I'll admit that the talkbox solo isn't very inspired though. That's my biggest let down with this song, but I like the rest.

Adam's playing doesn't have to be very technical to deserve respect or to be an integral part of the band. He's playing his role and expressing himself how he wants to. When you consider that a technically proficient guitarist like Robert Fripp has respect for this band, you should realize that maybe you shouldn't dismiss Adam's playing right off. Fripp's no idiot; he can listen to other artists and can form a nuanced view of their art. Adam's playing should only be considered in the appropriate context, and that's within Tool. Compare Eric Clapton or Jimmy Page to Steve Vai or Joe Petrucci. Which set of guitarists is more technically proficient? Clearly the latter, but does that make Clapton or Page worthless guitarists?

I didnt miss your sarcasm, I think it's pathetic that you believe that people who listen to certain bands have "small minds"- kind of a sweeping narrow-minded generalization really isnt it?

And the people who still post here, but don't like the album do so because of how much they loved Tool's previous albums- they feel let down.

Now stfu while i listen to some britney

you just called two people "fanboys" while your name is fucking "dredg"?
ahwhahwhahahahahahahahahah

.

Question to anyone who is saying Jones has lost his technicality: When has he ever played technical? Ever?

No.

Oh, and dredg is good.

Trivium are technical. They still suck donkey cock.

Yani is technical ... and he still sucks donkey-dick. Adam is one of the most perfect fits to the perfect band. I'm not a huge Metallica fan but just like James Hetfield is a fucking great rhythm player to their grooves ... and then there's Kirk Hammett with the super-speed-driven-palying-with-a-drill-bit solos. Don't get me wrong, he's a serious kick-ass guitarist, but Tool doesn't need a Kirk Hammett. They are a perfect balanced mixture of complication in the whole beast ... which is taking it further to the next level instead of the spot-lighting of one particular artist. Great experiences over all!