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Ok, here's what I think about this song. Yes, we all watch TV, and yes we watch the news, but I don't fully understand why he's saying we all feed on tragedy/we enjoy watching people die on the news, because it's not true. The song does make sense if you're just watching violent movies but real people dying is different. I do agree with HelenA, we are getting more and more used to the horrific things that we see on the news, because we've seen so much of it and it continues to worsen. Anyway, I think this song is mocking us, saying that we have fun watching people die because we do nothing about it. We don't actually enjoy watching people die, we would rather have less death in this world (I hope), but we just can't/won't do anything about it. Tool is saying that maybe we should stop being couch potatoes and do something, telling us to make a difference.
On another note, I do believe this song and Rosetta Stoned could possibly be linked. Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned are both about not taking action, but for different reasons. In Rosetta Stoned the man can't because he's crazy and in Vicarious the person(s) don't because they either don't care or think that someone else will.
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
08-17-2006, 01:39 PM
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#41
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Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: America
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
Ok, here's what I think about this song. Yes, we all watch TV, and yes we watch the news, but I don't fully understand why he's saying we all feed on tragedy/we enjoy watching people die on the news, because it's not true. The song does make sense if you're just watching violent movies but real people dying is different. I do agree with HelenA, we are getting more and more used to the horrific things that we see on the news, because we've seen so much of it and it continues to worsen. Anyway, I think this song is mocking us, saying that we have fun watching people die because we do nothing about it. We don't actually enjoy watching people die, we would rather have less death in this world (I hope), but we just can't/won't do anything about it. Tool is saying that maybe we should stop being couch potatoes and do something, telling us to make a difference.
On another note, I do believe this song and Rosetta Stoned could possibly be linked. Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned are both about not taking action, but for different reasons. In Rosetta Stoned the man can't because he's crazy and in Vicarious the person(s) don't because they either don't care or think that someone else will.
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
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08-18-2006, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Surfpup
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
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GOOD!!! You should - you waste your time analyzing the album and WE will all benefit. I would love to hear more....
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08-18-2006, 05:57 AM
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#42
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,724
Bincount™: 1989
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
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Originally Posted by Surfpup
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
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GOOD!!! You should - you waste your time analyzing the album and WE will all benefit. I would love to hear more.... |
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08-18-2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Surfpup
Ok, here's what I think about this song. Yes, we all watch TV, and yes we watch the news, but I don't fully understand why he's saying we all feed on tragedy/we enjoy watching people die on the news, because it's not true. The song does make sense if you're just watching violent movies but real people dying is different. I do agree with HelenA, we are getting more and more used to the horrific things that we see on the news, because we've seen so much of it and it continues to worsen. Anyway, I think this song is mocking us, saying that we have fun watching people die because we do nothing about it. We don't actually enjoy watching people die, we would rather have less death in this world (I hope), but we just can't/won't do anything about it. Tool is saying that maybe we should stop being couch potatoes and do something, telling us to make a difference.
On another note, I do believe this song and Rosetta Stoned could possibly be linked. Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned are both about not taking action, but for different reasons. In Rosetta Stoned the man can't because he's crazy and in Vicarious the person(s) don't because they either don't care or think that someone else will.
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
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i don't think he's saying we enjoy seeing death but we still just focus on it. how often do you see good positive stories on the news?
a good example is when people see a car wreck on the freeway, no one (i hope) wants anyone to be hurt or to see anything disturbing yet they can't help but slow down and stare, which causes a huge traffic jam of people doing nothing but staring at others misfortune.
__________________
"I saw this wino eating grapes and i said dude, you got to wait" -- Mitch Hedberg
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08-18-2006, 10:39 AM
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#43
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: O-HI-O
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
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Originally Posted by Surfpup
Ok, here's what I think about this song. Yes, we all watch TV, and yes we watch the news, but I don't fully understand why he's saying we all feed on tragedy/we enjoy watching people die on the news, because it's not true. The song does make sense if you're just watching violent movies but real people dying is different. I do agree with HelenA, we are getting more and more used to the horrific things that we see on the news, because we've seen so much of it and it continues to worsen. Anyway, I think this song is mocking us, saying that we have fun watching people die because we do nothing about it. We don't actually enjoy watching people die, we would rather have less death in this world (I hope), but we just can't/won't do anything about it. Tool is saying that maybe we should stop being couch potatoes and do something, telling us to make a difference.
On another note, I do believe this song and Rosetta Stoned could possibly be linked. Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned are both about not taking action, but for different reasons. In Rosetta Stoned the man can't because he's crazy and in Vicarious the person(s) don't because they either don't care or think that someone else will.
I'm going to continue wasting my time analyzing this album...
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i don't think he's saying we enjoy seeing death but we still just focus on it. how often do you see good positive stories on the news?
a good example is when people see a car wreck on the freeway, no one (i hope) wants anyone to be hurt or to see anything disturbing yet they can't help but slow down and stare, which causes a huge traffic jam of people doing nothing but staring at others misfortune.
__________________
"I saw this wino eating grapes and i said dude, you got to wait" -- Mitch Hedberg
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08-18-2006, 02:42 PM
I understand what you are saying Surfpup, but my impression is that this counterpoint is already represented within the song.
The opening verse more or less discusses a person's individual need for viewing other people's tragedies. The second verse however, suggests that an onlooker (such as yourself) might consider that a bit monstrous (which it seems you do). But the response is that the protagonist is not the only person watching these things, and in fact the only difference between himself and others is that he freely admits his attraction to it all.
So the idea of "we're not really like that" is presented, but it's quickly argued as well. The song suggests that indeed we really are like that, we just don't like to admit it because it makes us look (and maybe feel) bad.
When you consider how much of our entertainment media is inundated with "True Crime" drama and even "reality TV" that purposely seeks to invoke friction and conflict, it's very hard to argue that people somehow don't want to view tragedy, particularly when it involves other people's mortality.
I don't know that the song speaks so much to the person who actually chooses not to view such things, but rather the person who does yet tries to argue that it somehow appauls them. If it's truly appaulling then there wouldn't be a need to watch it, and then the further need to watch the next tragedy that comes on as well. For all those people who claim they don't want to watch but somehow "have to", that reason is entertainment whether they wish to admit it or not. The thrill. The adrenaline. The emotional response. All the same things they desire in entertainment. It's ultimately no different, and their unwillingness to admit that lies within the understanding that it's somewhat shameful to be entertained by such things. Yet, indeed they are.
Maybe then that's a greater aim within the song; not just the idea that tragedy is entertaining, but actually admitting we are entertained by tragedy. If as a populous we can finally come clean on the matter and admit that we keep on watching because on a certain level we really do enjoy it, that seems to me like the first step towards making a change in such behavior. The song itself doesn't suggest any action other than to admit we like watching tragedy. But assuming we do come clean (those who need to), I'd like to believe there's a possitive reaction invoked by doing so. The admission alone really does nothing.
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08-18-2006, 02:42 PM
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#44
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
I understand what you are saying Surfpup, but my impression is that this counterpoint is already represented within the song.
The opening verse more or less discusses a person's individual need for viewing other people's tragedies. The second verse however, suggests that an onlooker (such as yourself) might consider that a bit monstrous (which it seems you do). But the response is that the protagonist is not the only person watching these things, and in fact the only difference between himself and others is that he freely admits his attraction to it all.
So the idea of "we're not really like that" is presented, but it's quickly argued as well. The song suggests that indeed we really are like that, we just don't like to admit it because it makes us look (and maybe feel) bad.
When you consider how much of our entertainment media is inundated with "True Crime" drama and even "reality TV" that purposely seeks to invoke friction and conflict, it's very hard to argue that people somehow don't want to view tragedy, particularly when it involves other people's mortality.
I don't know that the song speaks so much to the person who actually chooses not to view such things, but rather the person who does yet tries to argue that it somehow appauls them. If it's truly appaulling then there wouldn't be a need to watch it, and then the further need to watch the next tragedy that comes on as well. For all those people who claim they don't want to watch but somehow "have to", that reason is entertainment whether they wish to admit it or not. The thrill. The adrenaline. The emotional response. All the same things they desire in entertainment. It's ultimately no different, and their unwillingness to admit that lies within the understanding that it's somewhat shameful to be entertained by such things. Yet, indeed they are.
Maybe then that's a greater aim within the song; not just the idea that tragedy is entertaining, but actually admitting we are entertained by tragedy. If as a populous we can finally come clean on the matter and admit that we keep on watching because on a certain level we really do enjoy it, that seems to me like the first step towards making a change in such behavior. The song itself doesn't suggest any action other than to admit we like watching tragedy. But assuming we do come clean (those who need to), I'd like to believe there's a possitive reaction invoked by doing so. The admission alone really does nothing.
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08-18-2006, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Happyfunball
The song itself doesn't suggest any action other than to admit we like watching tragedy. But assuming we do come clean (those who need to), I'd like to believe there's a possitive reaction invoked by doing so. The admission alone really does nothing.
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I disagree - I think 'admitting' something is a huge step towards change. If that is what we want to do. Certainly we CAN'T change unless we do 'admit it'. Along the Jung idea of the shadow (in 46&2) that we have to recognise our dark side before we can deal with it. But 'admitting' something about ourselves doesn't necessarily mean we WANT to change or even SHOULD change. It is just identifying a fact in our life.
I have been thinking a lot about 'Vicarious' lately and particularly that line "Why don't we just admit it?' and I have been wondering how many OTHER things we should just admit. Not necessarily to create a change but just to say "Hey - I take drugs, I like it" or whatever.
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08-18-2006, 06:25 PM
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#45
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,724
Bincount™: 1989
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
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Originally Posted by Happyfunball
The song itself doesn't suggest any action other than to admit we like watching tragedy. But assuming we do come clean (those who need to), I'd like to believe there's a possitive reaction invoked by doing so. The admission alone really does nothing.
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I disagree - I think 'admitting' something is a huge step towards change. If that is what we want to do. Certainly we CAN'T change unless we do 'admit it'. Along the Jung idea of the shadow (in 46&2) that we have to recognise our dark side before we can deal with it. But 'admitting' something about ourselves doesn't necessarily mean we WANT to change or even SHOULD change. It is just identifying a fact in our life.
I have been thinking a lot about 'Vicarious' lately and particularly that line "Why don't we just admit it?' and I have been wondering how many OTHER things we should just admit. Not necessarily to create a change but just to say "Hey - I take drugs, I like it" or whatever. |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Happyfunball
The admission alone really does nothing.
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Well, it allows us to come to terms with reality. If we are basing our thoughts off of the way things REALLY are (as in, if we do not entertain our hippy hazed notion of "angels in the hearts of men"), then perhaps our actions will be more wisely guided. If we understand that we as individuals are not dealing with other people who are angels, then perhaps we will not allow ourselves to be taken advantage of in various ways as we fight like a "warrior" to earn a living in this world. We will not allow others to act as "vampires" to us in any way, etc.
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Originally Posted by HelenA
Not necessarily to create a change but just to say "Hey - I take drugs, I like it" or whatever.
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Right.. to perhaps begin to see what was once "sinful" in a way that is conducive to gaining happiness in our lives from then onwards. If some aspect of our nature must necessarily remain with us even considering we currently are drawn to think negatively of it, since it supposedly can't be eliminated we might as well admit it is there. We might as well begin to calculate its existence in the decisions we make on a daily basis, however that may end up effecting the course of history...
__________________
the Justifications:
Do we move only 'cause we need to move, and hense should state all the rest -the justifications- as mere pretense?
Last edited by Godin; 08-18-2006 at 08:55 PM..
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08-18-2006, 08:48 PM
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#46
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dover, NH
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
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Originally Posted by Happyfunball
The admission alone really does nothing.
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Well, it allows us to come to terms with reality. If we are basing our thoughts off of the way things REALLY are (as in, if we do not entertain our hippy hazed notion of "angels in the hearts of men"), then perhaps our actions will be more wisely guided. If we understand that we as individuals are not dealing with other people who are angels, then perhaps we will not allow ourselves to be taken advantage of in various ways as we fight like a "warrior" to earn a living in this world. We will not allow others to act as "vampires" to us in any way, etc.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HelenA
Not necessarily to create a change but just to say "Hey - I take drugs, I like it" or whatever.
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Right.. to perhaps begin to see what was once "sinful" in a way that is conducive to gaining happiness in our lives from then onwards. If some aspect of our nature must necessarily remain with us even considering we currently are drawn to think negatively of it, since it supposedly can't be eliminated we might as well admit it is there. We might as well begin to calculate its existence in the decisions we make on a daily basis, however that may end up effecting the course of history...
__________________
the Justifications:
Do we move only 'cause we need to move, and hense should state all the rest -the justifications- as mere pretense?
Last edited by Godin; 08-18-2006 at 08:55 PM..
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08-22-2006, 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godin
we might as well admit it is there. We might as well begin to calculate its existence in the decisions we make on a daily basis, however that may end up effecting the course of history...
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YES. We might as well just admit it. Why not? We may not even be saying that we want or need to change. It might be just something that we NEED to acknowledge in order to just face the reality of what we are doing.
This idea has been taking up a lot of my time lately (for some reason). I have been doing a sort of mental audit of the things I need to 'admit'. Not that I want to change. I don't. I just want to take stock of the things that drive me and the things that restrict me. So I know.
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08-22-2006, 03:24 AM
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#47
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,724
Bincount™: 1989
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godin
we might as well admit it is there. We might as well begin to calculate its existence in the decisions we make on a daily basis, however that may end up effecting the course of history...
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YES. We might as well just admit it. Why not? We may not even be saying that we want or need to change. It might be just something that we NEED to acknowledge in order to just face the reality of what we are doing.
This idea has been taking up a lot of my time lately (for some reason). I have been doing a sort of mental audit of the things I need to 'admit'. Not that I want to change. I don't. I just want to take stock of the things that drive me and the things that restrict me. So I know. |
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08-27-2006, 01:34 AM
Maybe the brave and/or bold are those that are actually experiencing the tragedy and for whatever reason they don't tell you what is realy going on. Perhaps they forgot their pen (they were too busy surviving and changing thier sheets after they shit the bed) Maybe they aren't brave or bold enough to risk being ridiculed ,exploited or even ignored. So the media steps in and tells us what they think we want to hear. And shows us what they think we want to see as they exagerate and disregard the victims side of the story.
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08-27-2006, 01:34 AM
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#48
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Area 51
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
Maybe the brave and/or bold are those that are actually experiencing the tragedy and for whatever reason they don't tell you what is realy going on. Perhaps they forgot their pen (they were too busy surviving and changing thier sheets after they shit the bed) Maybe they aren't brave or bold enough to risk being ridiculed ,exploited or even ignored. So the media steps in and tells us what they think we want to hear. And shows us what they think we want to see as they exagerate and disregard the victims side of the story.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godin
some of the songs in this album (if not all of them directly or indirectly) work together in collectively characterizing a certain type of anonymous individual.
-Godin
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Reading that, I came up with a thought. Why did you you have to say "collectively characterizing"? It does not make your idea any more legit, or deep-thought. And what does anonymous individual mean?
You must mean, in your own (very spiritual and enlightened!) level, that some of the songs describe people, or a person, of certain type. That is not an analysis to put out in the name of a thought over bonding-point between songs. It is merely a theme of a song, or songs, or a whole album.
It's like saying there's something magical that both Titanic and Poseidon were movies about mishaps on the sea!
Now if you keep in mind how the singer-songwriter of this band said that this is the album where he doesn't try to save us anymore. He's just saying fuck it and telling what's wrong, your point holds no hand anymore, spiritually, or in any other analytic level as is.
It seems to me that people on this board fall too easily into the trap that I like to call "OMG SECRET ACID WORLD IS TRUTH, I SEE BEYOND FLESH WITH MY THIRD EYE, SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION THROUGH EATING COW SHIT". Don't go there with your words like "collective", "spiritual" and "push the envelope" bullshit.
And now to all fanatics; I am not saying acid makes you think wrong. I think it is a great activity to widen your horizon through making your associations more vivid!
__________________
I'll fuck you up.
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08-28-2006, 03:00 AM
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#49
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Finland
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godin
some of the songs in this album (if not all of them directly or indirectly) work together in collectively characterizing a certain type of anonymous individual.
-Godin
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Reading that, I came up with a thought. Why did you you have to say "collectively characterizing"? It does not make your idea any more legit, or deep-thought. And what does anonymous individual mean?
You must mean, in your own (very spiritual and enlightened!) level, that some of the songs describe people, or a person, of certain type. That is not an analysis to put out in the name of a thought over bonding-point between songs. It is merely a theme of a song, or songs, or a whole album.
It's like saying there's something magical that both Titanic and Poseidon were movies about mishaps on the sea!
Now if you keep in mind how the singer-songwriter of this band said that this is the album where he doesn't try to save us anymore. He's just saying fuck it and telling what's wrong, your point holds no hand anymore, spiritually, or in any other analytic level as is.
It seems to me that people on this board fall too easily into the trap that I like to call "OMG SECRET ACID WORLD IS TRUTH, I SEE BEYOND FLESH WITH MY THIRD EYE, SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION THROUGH EATING COW SHIT". Don't go there with your words like "collective", "spiritual" and "push the envelope" bullshit.
And now to all fanatics; I am not saying acid makes you think wrong. I think it is a great activity to widen your horizon through making your associations more vivid!
__________________
I'll fuck you up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themazi
Why did you you have to say "collectively characterizing"? ...Don't go there with your words like "collective", "spiritual" and "push the envelope" bullshit.
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Using "collectively" might have been redundant. I just meant that at least some songs on the album contribute to characterize one specific type of person. They don't all characterize different people. I believe they are meant to build upon one another.
They COLLECT together, meaningfully. So, they all engage in a COLLECTIVE effort. I didn't mean to use the word "collective" in the spiritual bullshit sense of the word, like a collective consciousness or something like that.
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Originally Posted by themazi
...what does anonymous individual mean?
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By "anonymous individual" I meant a person who is not personally known to the band. Of course I'm not suggesting someone in PARTICULAR, but just anonymous in the sense that MJK would be writing songs to affect his listeners of whom he doesn't personally know. Keep in mind that in "Lost Keys" the patient in the hospital scene is anonymous. The "healers" don't know anything about him, but they "want to help". This is probably the most explicit moment in the album where the message is "Hey, we are addressing a benevolent message towards ANONYMOUS listeners here" (which would seem to contradict your quote from MJK).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by themazi
You must mean, in your own (very spiritual and enlightened!) level, that some of the songs describe people, or a person, of certain type. That is not an analysis to put out in the name of a thought over bonding-point between songs. It is merely a theme of a song, or songs, or a whole album. It's like saying there's something magical that both Titanic and Poseidon were movies about mishaps on the sea!
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Well, that's an interesting thought, and I've considered it before... but no, it's not like that. My claim is that at least some of the songs on the album PURPOSEFULLY characterize a pretty specific type of person... as in, it's not just a coincidence, and there's strong evidence to substantiate this. I would never try to claim that Titanic and Poseidon were stories that were written to build upon one another. Some of the songs in this album, though, I believe were purposefully meant to be so.
...You keep implying that I'm some sort of a spiritual flakey type of person... I'm not sure where you'd get that idea from what I've posted. Maybe because there is a subset of Tool fans who believe there is a secret world that LSD reveals to them, and you believe I'm like one of them. Maybe because everybody else on here has a fake name, and so you assume my name is also fake, and that I believe GOD is IN me. it's my last name, man. Stop casting aspersions.
Quote:
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Now if you keep in mind how the singer-songwriter of this band said that this is the album where he doesn't try to save us anymore. He's just saying fuck it and telling what's wrong, your point holds no hand anymore, spiritually, or in any other analytic level as is.
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Did he say that? This is the first time I've heard that. If you can provide me the source, I'd like to check it out. If he DID say that, I'd flat out argue it with him to his face. If no other song on the album is meant to "save us", then the track sequence of 6-8 certainly has a moral that is meant to be helpful to certain types of people, and being helpful is another way of "saving" someone... if you absolutely must think in such dramatic terms. No matter what anybody from Tool says, I would argue to their faces strongly that at least parts of this album show the spirit of benevolence towards the listeners... and this to me would seem to contradict your claim that MJK said he has given up on that sort of thing.
__________________
the Justifications:
Do we move only 'cause we need to move, and hense should state all the rest -the justifications- as mere pretense?
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08-31-2006, 02:18 PM
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#50
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dover, NH
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Re: Neither the brave nor bold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by themazi
Why did you you have to say "collectively characterizing"? ...Don't go there with your words like "collective", "spiritual" and "push the envelope" bullshit.
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Using "collectively" might have been redundant. I just meant that at least some songs on the album contribute to characterize one specific type of person. They don't all characterize different people. I believe they are meant to build upon one another.
They COLLECT together, meaningfully. So, they all engage in a COLLECTIVE effort. I didn't mean to use the word "collective" in the spiritual bullshit sense of the word, like a collective consciousness or something like that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by themazi
...what does anonymous individual mean?
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By "anonymous individual" I meant a person who is not personally known to the band. Of course I'm not suggesting someone in PARTICULAR, but just anonymous in the sense that MJK would be writing songs to affect his listeners of whom he doesn't personally know. Keep in mind that in "Lost Keys" the patient in the hospital scene is anonymous. The "healers" don't know anything about him, but they "want to help". This is probably the most explicit moment in the album where the message is "Hey, we are addressing a benevolent message towards ANONYMOUS listeners here" (which would seem to contradict your quote from MJK).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by themazi
You must mean, in your own (very spiritual and enlightened!) level, that some of the songs describe people, or a person, of certain type. That is not an analysis to put out in the name of a thought over bonding-point between songs. It is merely a theme of a song, or songs, or a whole album. It's like saying there's something magical that both Titanic and Poseidon were movies about mishaps on the sea!
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Well, that's an interesting thought, and I've considered it before... but no, it's not like that. My claim is that at least some of the songs on the album PURPOSEFULLY characterize a pretty specific type of person... as in, it's not just a coincidence, and there's strong evidence to substantiate this. I would never try to claim that Titanic and Poseidon were stories that were written to build upon one another. Some of the songs in this album, though, I believe were purposefully meant to be so.
...You keep implying that I'm some sort of a spiritual flakey type of person... I'm not sure where you'd get that idea from what I've posted. Maybe because there is a subset of Tool fans who believe there is a secret world that LSD reveals to them, and you believe I'm like one of them. Maybe because everybody else on here has a fake name, and so you assume my name is also fake, and that I believe GOD is IN me. it's my last name, man. Stop casting aspersions.
Quote:
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Now if you keep in mind how the singer-songwriter of this band said that this is the album where he doesn't try to save us anymore. He's just saying fuck it and telling what's wrong, your point holds no hand anymore, spiritually, or in any other analytic level as is.
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Did he say that? This is the first time I've heard that. If you can provide me the source, I'd like to check it out. If he DID say that, I'd flat out argue it with him to his face. If no other song on the album is meant to "save us", then the track sequence of 6-8 certainly has a moral that is meant to be helpful to certain types of people, and being helpful is another way of "saving" someone... if you absolutely must think in such dramatic terms. No matter what anybody from Tool says, I would argue to their faces strongly that at least parts of this album show the spirit of benevolence towards the listeners... and this to me would seem to contradict your claim that MJK said he has given up on that sort of thing.
__________________
the Justifications:
Do we move only 'cause we need to move, and hense should state all the rest -the justifications- as mere pretense?
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