For those of you who have read the Revolver Magazine, this will make a lot of sense. Lateralus (or atleast a few key songs to it) is about the band, and their struggle to stay together. However, there is an ultimate reward for staying together...the music they all play together...
The Grudge is about the grudge between Maynard and the rest of the guys, over Maynards 'cheating' on TOOL with APC. "Where were you? You're off with your mistress again"-Maynard from Revolver Mag
The grudge is used as ammo almost, to give the band the raw, emotions they need to perform.
"Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold."
Maynard talks about "Saturns return" in Revolver and how it is an opportunity to transform, let go of the old, in with the new, how a lot of bands dont make it. This is talked about all through the grudge
saturn ascends...
The patient is all about maynards' patience to stay with the band, not walk away, knowing the reward at the end of the tunnel.
If there were no rewards to reap,
No loving embrace to see me through
This tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now.
Gonna wait it out.
Schism goes along with what has already been said...
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication
The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
i cant really put my thoughts down in a clear manner, however i feel that you should be able to see this without me having to write a picture perfect theory to persuade you
Last edited by theamazingtool; 05-19-2008 at 07:20 AM..
I understand what you're saying about those select songs, but D/R/T, ticks, lateralus, parabol/a just don't fit in with what you're saying at all to me.
I understand what you're saying about those select songs, but D/R/T, ticks, lateralus, parabol/a just don't fit in with what you're saying at all to me.
I agree, what the OP said does make sense but it's also entirely possible that not ALL the songs on the album are related to that particular situation. Tick and Leeches was wrote about the lawsuits and attorneys they were dealing with for years before the release of Lateralus. It's all relevant to the band I'm sure, just not all the same storyline.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
whos to say that the grudge is JUST about maynard's perfect circle mistress? that's quite shallow and dumb if you ask me, who cares what they said in the revolver magazine, you and i know damn well that any tool song isn't just about one specific thing, it's art left up to your own interpretation. Whos to say the patient "is" about maynards patience, oh wait maynards singing it, well no shit sherlock. WHy would any of you want to put your finger on exactly what inspired the song, what matters is how it makes you feel as your listening to it, which is different every time! fuck your definitions
whos to say that the grudge is JUST about maynard's perfect circle mistress? that's quite shallow and dumb if you ask me, who cares what they said in the revolver magazine, you and i know damn well that any tool song isn't just about one specific thing, it's art left up to your own interpretation. Whos to say the patient "is" about maynards patience, oh wait maynards singing it, well no shit sherlock. WHy would any of you want to put your finger on exactly what inspired the song, what matters is how it makes you feel as your listening to it, which is different every time! fuck your definitions
did i say the grudge is JUST about maynards perfect circle mistress? no i didnt. i agree, i think all TOOL is left up for what it means to YOU. but i also know damn well, that maynard isnt singing about what it means to me. the band has their own, the original, grounds for a song. and in this case, i think this is the core of it. i am not going off of "what the revolver magazine says", i am going off of the words coming from maynards mouth reduarding the recording of this album.
funny thing cause i was listening to hooker with a penis just as i read your post...
you can point that fucking finger up your ass!
whos to say that the grudge is JUST about maynard's perfect circle mistress? that's quite shallow and dumb if you ask me, who cares what they said in the revolver magazine, you and i know damn well that any tool song isn't just about one specific thing, it's art left up to your own interpretation. Whos to say the patient "is" about maynards patience, oh wait maynards singing it, well no shit sherlock. WHy would any of you want to put your finger on exactly what inspired the song, what matters is how it makes you feel as your listening to it, which is different every time! fuck your definitions
Fuck your attitude. Some people want to know what the origin of a story is while others may just want to sit there cross eyed and listen to the words. There's nothing wrong with wanting to know where it came from any more than it is to simply take what you want from it or even combining both which I prefer to do. I'd like to know what HE meant when he wrote it but I'd still take out of it whatever I see fit.
**DISCLAIMER*** Although I did say there's nothing wrong with anyone taking what they get from it, this does not save you from severe flaming and damnation of fellow TDN'ers (including myself) if you come up with something entirely illogical and/or retarded. I good example would be iAMTHEMa, if your thoughts and/or theories come out anything similar to that you may as well go buy yourself some flame retardent undies.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Finding out what orginally inspired maynard to write any of his songs is only going to take away from what you got out of it originally. Personally, I'd rather sit with my eyes crossed and listen to his words than to scrutinize the exact definition of the song. I believe Maynard himself also said he would like us to use Tool's music to inspire us to do our own thing, like a bunch of chefs in the kitchen listening to Tool inventing new recipes. That was the same example he used in an interview once, not in the revolver mag. So you would rather know exactly what each song is about rather than leave it alone and enjoy it? Think for yourself, for once.
did i say the grudge is JUST about maynards perfect circle mistress? no i didnt. i agree, i think all TOOL is left up for what it means to YOU. but i also know damn well, that maynard isnt singing about what it means to me. the band has their own, the original, grounds for a song. and in this case, i think this is the core of it. i am not going off of "what the revolver magazine says", i am going off of the words coming from maynards mouth reduarding the recording of this album.
funny thing cause i was listening to hooker with a penis just as i read your post...
you can point that fucking finger up your ass!
"The Grudge is about the grudge between Maynard and the rest of the guys, over Maynards 'cheating' on TOOL with APC. "Where were you? You're off with your mistress again"-Maynard from Revolver Mag" - theamazingidiot
How do you know maynard isn't singing about what it means to you? Firstly, you probably don't even know what it means to you, that's why you'd rather have it spelled out for you than just experience things as they are. You are going off of what the revolver magazine says, because maynard says it in the revolver magazine you dolt. And since when does maynard ever reveal the core secrets of anything? I'm sure his mistress had something to do with the creation of the song but you and I know that it's much deeper than that. And you would take him seriously after him telling you his son's name is devo...right. Funny thing because you are the kid they're talkin about in hooker with a penis, you're just too blind to see it. All about the bands definitions and the bands original grounds for a song and the first ep back in 92, hell Yeah, you go! THINK FOR YOURSELF, PLEASE.
Finding out what orginally inspired maynard to write any of his songs is only going to take away from what you got out of it originally. Personally, I'd rather sit with my eyes crossed and listen to his words than to scrutinize the exact definition of the song. I believe Maynard himself also said he would like us to use Tool's music to inspire us to do our own thing, like a bunch of chefs in the kitchen listening to Tool inventing new recipes. That was the same example he used in an interview once, not in the revolver mag. So you would rather know exactly what each song is about rather than leave it alone and enjoy it? Think for yourself, for once.
You've got to be one of the ignorant fucks on here. Think for myself? How fucking cliche is that? Thinking for myself is EXACTLY what I'm doing and I'm open minded enough unlike you, jackass, to be interest in both sides of the spectrum. Knowing exactly what he meant by any of the songs wouldn't diminish anything for someone with an open mind. Although I do agree that a simple minded man as yourself really would have a lot to lose if you were actually able to see the forest for the trees.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
"The Grudge is about the grudge between Maynard and the rest of the guys, over Maynards 'cheating' on TOOL with APC. "Where were you? You're off with your mistress again"-Maynard from Revolver Mag" - theamazingidiot
How do you know maynard isn't singing about what it means to you? Firstly, you probably don't even know what it means to you, that's why you'd rather have it spelled out for you than just experience things as they are. You are going off of what the revolver magazine says, because maynard says it in the revolver magazine you dolt. And since when does maynard ever reveal the core secrets of anything? I'm sure his mistress had something to do with the creation of the song but you and I know that it's much deeper than that. And you would take him seriously after him telling you his son's name is devo...right. Funny thing because you are the kid they're talkin about in hooker with a penis, you're just too blind to see it. All about the bands definitions and the bands original grounds for a song and the first ep back in 92, hell Yeah, you go! THINK FOR YOURSELF, PLEASE.
LOL, WHAT A MORON
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
You've got to be one of the ignorant fucks on here. Think for myself? How fucking cliche is that? Thinking for myself is EXACTLY what I'm doing and I'm open minded enough unlike you, jackass, to be interest in both sides of the spectrum. Knowing exactly what he meant by any of the songs wouldn't diminish anything for someone with an open mind. Although I do agree that a simple minded man as yourself really would have a lot to lose if you were actually able to see the forest for the trees.
forgive me oh open minded one, for putting you in your place. you can't argue that once someone tells you the exact meaning of the lyrics in the song that it distracts you from what you might think it's about when you first hear it. the first interpretation of a song when you hear it is what's most important and to keep that original spark with you whenever you hear it. It'l like meeting one of the band members and them being a dick to you, it would probably ruin your outlook on them if you knew how they really were. not saying they're bad guys, just giving an example of ruining the art by knowing the truth behind it. my point is, who cares. who cares why or what inspired the song, that's not the reason the song was made, it was made to inspire you to think for yourself, not to research and study the meaning behind what the band members were exactly thinking about, because they were thinking for themselves. Cliche? thinking for yourself is never cliche my friend and if you're open minded enough "to be interest in both sides of the spectrum", do you even know what you're saying? You're the one looking at the trees, scrutinizing the little details and definitions of the songs, all the while I'm trying to get everyone to step back and just take in the forest as a whole. Pseudo intellectualism and misused metaphors won't hide your ignorance in here.
forgive me oh open minded one, for putting you in your place. you can't argue that once someone tells you the exact meaning of the lyrics in the song that it distracts you from what you might think it's about when you first hear it. the first interpretation of a song when you hear it is what's most important and to keep that original spark with you whenever you hear it. It'l like meeting one of the band members and them being a dick to you, it would probably ruin your outlook on them if you knew how they really were. not saying they're bad guys, just giving an example of ruining the art by knowing the truth behind it. my point is, who cares. who cares why or what inspired the song, that's not the reason the song was made, it was made to inspire you to think for yourself, not to research and study the meaning behind what the band members were exactly thinking about, because they were thinking for themselves. Cliche? thinking for yourself is never cliche my friend and if you're open minded enough "to be interest in both sides of the spectrum", do you even know what you're saying? You're the one looking at the trees, scrutinizing the little details and definitions of the songs, all the while I'm trying to get everyone to step back and just take in the forest as a whole. Pseudo intellectualism and misused metaphors won't hide your ignorance in here.
What a joke...okay Mr. I see the forest, if your ignorant ass were actually seeing the forest you wouldn't be shooting anyone down for the interest in the true details. Yes, there's a forest to aknowledge there but without the dirt, the leaves, the branches, the twigs and the butterflys floating in the wind there would be no forest genius. You apparently missed the entire point of the song Lateralus. Yes, there's always a big picture to appreciate (the forest) but you also need to take time to enjoy the little things that make up the big picture. You're mindless rant at attacking me for seeing both sides is indeed pointless and ignorant. You obviously DON'T truly see the forest, you're just looking at it.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
What a joke...okay Mr. I see the forest, if your ignorant ass were actually seeing the forest you wouldn't be shooting anyone down for the interest in the true details. Yes, there's a forest to aknowledge there but without the dirt, the leaves, the branches, the twigs and the butterflys floating in the wind there would be no forest genius. You apparently missed the entire point of the song Lateralus. Yes, there's always a big picture to appreciate (the forest) but you also need to take time to enjoy the little things that make up the big picture. You're mindless rant at attacking me for seeing both sides is indeed pointless and ignorant. You obviously DON'T truly see the forest, you're just looking at it.
Yes you are way over my head and more aware than I could comprehend. Thank you for baffling me for all to see, I am much more enlightened now. The trees, the forest, the little caterpillars with their families, it's so beautiful it brings a tear to my third dick.
Yes you are way over my head and more aware than I could comprehend. Thank you for baffling me for all to see, I am much more enlightened now. The trees, the forest, the little caterpillars with their families, it's so beautiful it brings a tear to my third dick.
Well keeping sucking away with that starry eyed befuddled look on your face, here's a napkin to wipe that.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
its a bit of sarcasm. yet at the same time, a bit of truth. there is no point in arguing with this closed minded kodydude. i said my opinion, he clashed, i backed my side up and he still disagreed. whatever, i could care less. what, am i supposed to try to force my ideas on others? if he doesnt like what i have to say, fuck it, maybe somebody else will.
let's not start sucking each others dicks just yet. or just make random observations about having different opinions. duuuuuuuuh, you're welcome for my amazing insight.
first off, im not sucking anyones dick in here... and random observations about having different opinons? maybe im not following you here, care to explain more? as for thanking you for your "amazing insight", i believe i explained myself pretty well in my 5/23 post. if your not picking up what im putting down, it is a more polite way of saying "OK, im not gonna waste anymore of my time arguing with some d-bag"
i just hate when people start off a sentence with, "the grudge IS about" or "the patient IS about" how about "I THINK the patient is about" or "It's cool to think about the patient in this way" not "it is about this and only about this one thing maynard did or said". is that a crime to be annoyed by things like that? I'm such a douche bag
you are taking my post too literally. this is the OPINION section of tdn, therefore i dont find it incredibly important to start every post with "IN MY OPINION". everything thing in here is just that, an opinion. with that in mind, i say what i want, how i want-you can take it or leave it...afterall, this is an ONLINE BOARD
you are taking my post too literally. this is the OPINION section of tdn, therefore i dont find it incredibly important to start every post with "IN MY OPINION". everything thing in here is just that, an opinion. with that in mind, i say what i want, how i want-you can take it or leave it...afterall, this is an ONLINE BOARD
Yeah I know, I guess I should of said that I think your opinion is dumb. It's too simple for me to be satisfied with, that's why I don't like people taking shots in the dark at the meanings of Tool songs. Tool is different than other artists and I like the fact that every time I listen to a tool song i get something completely different and new out of it. I don't like to put my finger on the meaning. it just ruins the integrity of the art itself. And you're not just saying those things about the grudge and the patient because it's your opinion, you flat out believe that the songs ARE about those things with maynard and the band. It's not even an interesting one, it's not an artistic outlook, it's not creative in the least and it has nothing to do with what the songs are about anyway. So with that in mind, say what you want, how you want it, but don't expect me to swallow your "it's just my opinion" excuse for some lame explanation of a multi dimensional epic song.
Yeah I know, I guess I should of said that I think your opinion is dumb. It's too simple for me to be satisfied with, that's why I don't like people taking shots in the dark at the meanings of Tool songs. Tool is different than other artists and I like the fact that every time I listen to a tool song i get something completely different and new out of it. I don't like to put my finger on the meaning. it just ruins the integrity of the art itself. And you're not just saying those things about the grudge and the patient because it's your opinion, you flat out believe that the songs ARE about those things with maynard and the band. It's not even an interesting one, it's not an artistic outlook, it's not creative in the least and it has nothing to do with what the songs are about anyway. So with that in mind, say what you want, how you want it, but don't expect me to swallow your "it's just my opinion" excuse for some lame explanation of a multi dimensional epic song.
Maybe you should try holding your breath underwater for 10min while being chained to the bottom because it sounds cool and creative.....
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Maybe you should try holding your breath underwater for 10min while being chained to the bottom because it sounds cool and creative.....
Yes it would be a more enlightening experience than your genius forest analogy for life. Thank you Buddha. THE GRUDGE IS ABOUT MAYNARDS GRUDGE WITH THE BAND OK?!?!?! Oh thank you god, now it's all clear to me, man i was so blind and dumb. i was lookin at the forest but now i see the fucking trees and smokey the bear waving his ashy shovel at me, thank you for lifting the veil over my eyes blocking me from seeing the true inner wisdom of the meaning behind a tool song that obviously has no other meaning at all.
Yes it would be a more enlightening experience than your genius forest analogy for life. Thank you Buddha. THE GRUDGE IS ABOUT MAYNARDS GRUDGE WITH THE BAND OK?!?!?! Oh thank you god, now it's all clear to me, man i was so blind and dumb. i was lookin at the forest but now i see the fucking trees and smokey the bear waving his ashy shovel at me, thank you for lifting the veil over my eyes blocking me from seeing the true inner wisdom of the meaning behind a tool song that obviously has no other meaning at all.
You're an idiot, I never once said that's what it's about nor did I say that it's the only thing I think it is about even if I saw it as a possibility.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
The Grudge is about the grudge between Maynard and the rest of the guys, over Maynards 'cheating' on TOOL with APC. "Where were you? You're off with your mistress again"-Maynard from Revolver Mag
The grudge is used as ammo almost, to give the band the raw, emotions they need to perform.
"Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold."
Maynard talks about "Saturns return" in Revolver and how it is an opportunity to transform, let go of the old, in with the new, how a lot of bands dont make it. This is talked about all through the grudge
saturn ascends...
The patient is all about maynards' patience to stay with the band, not walk away, knowing the reward at the end of the tunnel.
Schism goes along with what has already been said...
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication
The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Borrrrrring. You didn't say it was one dimensional, i can just tell you're looking at it that way. Putting your finger on the meaning of all these songs is one dimension, there's really nothing that can convey the way the song makes you feel, especially by just re posting the lyrics and saying, LOOK SEE! If you think about maynard and the band's grudges while listening to tools music, then you obviously DON'T have quite the imagination.
Borrrrrring. You didn't say it was one dimensional, i can just tell you're looking at it that way. Putting your finger on the meaning of all these songs is one dimension, there's really nothing that can convey the way the song makes you feel, especially by just re posting the lyrics and saying, LOOK SEE! If you think about maynard and the band's grudges while listening to tools music, then you obviously DON'T have quite the imagination.
so now, you are making assumptions. didnt your momma ever tell you " to assume makes an ass outta you and me"? im sorry i dont have the imagination to think up what other people truly think, yet dont say
so now, you are making assumptions. didnt your momma ever tell you " to assume makes an ass outta you and me"? im sorry i dont have the imagination to think up what other people truly think, yet dont say
Nor do you have the reasoning to perceive anything that I said. You shouldn't "think up what other people truly think" you should think for yourself. Listening to Tools music should have nothing to do with "what they truly think yet don't say". It should stimulate your own imagination, it should be a personal experience instead of a trans-personal one, something completely unique to you...Unlike the lame definitions you've provided us with, void of any color or uniqueness, full of simple observations and logical guesses as to the origins of the meaning behind the lyrics. BORING. The Grudge brings me to tears sometimes, depending on my mood of course, but it's so inspiring and relative to my own experiences that it pushes me ahead in my mind whenever I'm in rut or depressed. We are obviously two very different people, so if knowing the grey area inside the box is what's important to you then go ahead and scrutinize Tool's songs and ring them dry of any artistic value. I don't like to put a cage around the song and say this IS about this or this IS about that, what it IS about IS inspiration, getting through the muck to see the light. To me maynards personal life and reasons behind his lyrics don't really matter, and if they matter to you then he hasn't done his job good enough.
Nor do you have the reasoning to perceive anything that I said. You shouldn't "think up what other people truly think" you should think for yourself. Listening to Tools music should have nothing to do with "what they truly think yet don't say". It should stimulate your own imagination, it should be a personal experience instead of a trans-personal one, something completely unique to you...Unlike the lame definitions you've provided us with, void of any color or uniqueness, full of simple observations and logical guesses as to the origins of the meaning behind the lyrics. BORING. The Grudge brings me to tears sometimes, depending on my mood of course, but it's so inspiring and relative to my own experiences that it pushes me ahead in my mind whenever I'm in rut or depressed. We are obviously two very different people, so if knowing the grey area inside the box is what's important to you then go ahead and scrutinize Tool's songs and ring them dry of any artistic value. I don't like to put a cage around the song and say this IS about this or this IS about that, what it IS about IS inspiration, getting through the muck to see the light. To me maynards personal life and reasons behind his lyrics don't really matter, and if they matter to you then he hasn't done his job good enough.
TOOL's music should be something completely unique to myself, each song a completely personal experience? NO SHIT!!!!!
I am beside myself by the fact that you feel the need to address this to me and for everybody else to see. I feel certain that the people who come on this website, are intelligent enough TOOL fans to recognize this very simple 'mission statement' of the band.
I do not think that people want to hear what thoughts, emotions, feelings may manifest within my head while hearing this song. You cannot put into words the personal meanings and significance of TOOL songs, so most of us dont even try. Instead, there is some common ground that can be put into words, for us all to share.
Trying to find the core meaning, the message, the journey behind each song, can help build upon your personal interpretation on a more genuine level. Taking out of the song what they put into it...
TOOL's music should be something completely unique to myself, each song a completely personal experience? NO SHIT!!!!!
I am beside myself by the fact that you feel the need to address this to me and for everybody else to see. I feel certain that the people who come on this website, are intelligent enough TOOL fans to recognize this very simple 'mission statement' of the band.
I do not think that people want to hear what thoughts, emotions, feelings may manifest within my head while hearing this song. You cannot put into words the personal meanings and significance of TOOL songs, so most of us dont even try. Instead, there is some common ground that can be put into words, for us all to share.
Trying to find the core meaning, the message, the journey behind each song, can help build upon your personal interpretation on a more genuine level. Taking out of the song what they put into it...
yes well whatever makes you sleep at night. How can your personal interpretation be more genuinely personal by finding their meaning or their journey or what they thought or did to make the song? I mean that's great and all but it has nothing to do with a personal interpretation. That's more of a tool fans interpretation than a personal one. You don't think people want to hear what thoughts are in your head while hearing a tool song because you'd probably be embarassed.
