speak for yourself. I personally have never felt any sort of sexual attraction to my mother. I'm sorry for those who have.
First of all, the Oedipus Complex goes much beyond a mere sexual attraction. Second of all, your constant, consistent denial that you have an Oedipus Complex seems a bit suspicious. Thirdly, thank you for pitying those of us who couragously look within and see things that we are very, very afraid to see. Your pity comforts me in my times of need.
Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother, do you think they'll like the song?
Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Ooh ah,
Mother, should I build a wall?
Mother, should I run for president?
Mother, should trust the government?
Mother, will they put in the firing line?
Ooh ah,
Is it just a waste of time?
Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry.
Mamma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true,
Mamma's gonna put all of her fears into you,
Mamma's gonna keep you right here, under her wing.
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing,
Mamma's gonna keep baby cosy and warm.
Oooh babe, Oooh babe, Oooh babe,
Of course Mamma's gonna help build the wall.
Mother, do you think she's good enough, for me?
Mother, do you think she's dangerous, to me?
Mother, will she tear your little boy apart?
Ooh ah,
Mother, will she break my heart?
Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry.
Mamma's going to check out all your girlfriends for you,
Mamma won't let anyone dirty get through,
Mamma's gonna wait up until you get in.
Mamma will always find out where you've been,
Mamma's gonna keep baby healthy and clean.
Oooh babe, Oooh babe, Oooh babe,
You'll always be baby to me.
Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother, do you think they'll like the song?
Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Ooh ah,
Mother, should I build a wall?
Mother, should I run for president?
Mother, should trust the government?
Mother, will they put in the firing line?
Ooh ah,
Is it just a waste of time?
Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry.
Mamma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true,
Mamma's gonna put all of her fears into you,
Mamma's gonna keep you right here, under her wing.
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing,
Mamma's gonna keep baby cosy and warm.
Oooh babe, Oooh babe, Oooh babe,
Of course Mamma's gonna help build the wall.
Mother, do you think she's good enough, for me?
Mother, do you think she's dangerous, to me?
Mother, will she tear your little boy apart?
Ooh ah,
Mother, will she break my heart?
Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry.
Mamma's going to check out all your girlfriends for you,
Mamma won't let anyone dirty get through,
Mamma's gonna wait up until you get in.
Mamma will always find out where you've been,
Mamma's gonna keep baby healthy and clean.
Oooh babe, Oooh babe, Oooh babe,
You'll always be baby to me.
Mother, did it need to be so high?
bv Pink Floyd
I know exactly what you mean. I have always associated the two songs with the same underlying theme (to me) . I love that song, and I love Pink Floyd, but that doesn't mean that I love my TOOL any less.
Actually, I didn't even think about the connection until someone's post about "Stacey's Mom," inspired me to mention this song. But you're right, I agree it does seem to cover, somewhat, the same theme as Pushit.
In my first two posts on this thread, I mentioned both Freudian and Jungian psychological interpretations of the Oedipus Complex. Jung interpreted the myth very generally and abstactly. These two songs, Pushit by TOOL and Mother by Pink Floyd, also both seem to be intepreting the same thing in an abstract way.
What can, "The Mother," represent? What can hide in her shadow? What acts to protect a person, keep him safe, comfortable, complacent--all the while beneath his awareness level? I think that, really, that is what these songs are exploring. I am led to believe there is a bit of the personal mother in each one, but more so, they are referring to, "The Mother."
She is the drugs you take to dull the pain of beingness;
she is the girlfriend you have to protect you from being alone;
she is the governement that protects you from knowing too much;
she is the friend that holds your hand, all the while holding you back;
she is the books you read to stop you from being frictional;
she is the lies you lie, to keep you from being your own man.
She is to be fucked, killed, worshipped, satiated, loved, abhored, and befriended.
Actually, I didn't even think about the connection until someone's post about "Stacey's Mom," inspired me to mention this song. But you're right, I agree it does seem to cover, somewhat, the same theme as Pushit.
In my first two posts on this thread, I mentioned both Freudian and Jungian psychological interpretations of the Oedipus Complex. Jung interpreted the myth very generally and abstactly. These two songs, Pushit by TOOL and Mother by Pink Floyd, also both seem to be intepreting the same thing in an abstract way.
What can, "The Mother," represent? What can hide in her shadow? What acts to protect a person, keep him safe, comfortable, complacent--all the while beneath his awareness level? I think that, really, that is what these songs are exploring. I am led to believe there is a bit of the personal mother in each one, but more so, they are referring to, "The Mother."
She is the drugs you take to dull the pain of beingness;
she is the girlfriend you have to protect you from being alone;
she is the governement that protects you from knowing too much;
she is the friend that holds your hand, all the while holding you back;
she is the books you read to stop you from being frictional;
she is the lies you lie, to keep you from being your own man.
She is to be fucked, killed, worshipped, satiated, loved, abhored, and befriended.
I can understand how she could represent those things. But i think that the mother could be a mother, his mother perhaps and he is mad at her for not telling him the truth, if there is such a thing, about all the questions he asks her in the song. I have learned/decided that if my child were to ask me those same questions i would tell thim to answer them for him/her self and then i would tell them my point of view. Also I feel as though the artists are both at conflict with themselves and mother could be their own self conscience and they are asking themselves, "why didn't I listen to y0u in the first place?" as opposed to what society might try to form in their minds.
also I think that society is who is trying to comfort them (order, rules regulations) and they prolly are searching for somethign more individual to them toprovide copmfort. For me, that is informing myself, in that I trust what I can think up as opposed to what people tell me.
Well, belief is unavoidable. People choose to believe because they have a need to have something to take the weight off of their shoulders. I probably should've used a different word instead of belief, a word that would have better fit, I just didn't think about it objectively when I wrote the post.
You can't believe in nothing however, you must believe that you shouldn't believe in nothing, thus you are believing. There is no escaping it. Belief permeates our existence. That is why you must be able to choose what to believe and how far to push that belief.
Religous fanatics, or any other fanatic for that matter, perhaps sports. They push it too far. A sport team loses and their fans start committing suicide. You don't believe my religion is right, I'll shoot you in your head and laugh about it.
I suppose that the word has just been pounded into my head so much it just came out. A problem that needs to be rectified. Unfortunately I am a creature of habbit and thus, I will fall prey to such inconviencies. Oh well. Thanks for insight. Do you think that this interpretation has any bearing?
P.S. just as a sidenote- Christianity is a really a system of belief and faith. It is to my understanding that everyone chooses to either believe it something else or no religion at all. The point is that when you have chosen to believe something that you research it and interpret it for what you think it means, not some pastor somewhere, not your parents. They might help you, but you must choose to have your own thoughts or choose to be a sheep.
~Is this a prelude to an unforged thought?~
Belief is not unavoidable. You can tell me that it is, you can give analogies like when I flip on a light switch I "believe" it will come on, when I turn my key in my car I "believe" the ignition will turn over, etc. But come on. Let me explain about the beliefs being dangerous, turning minds into non-functioning mode.
For a long, long time, people believed the Earth was flat. Nay, they KNEW it. It was truth. Ask anyone in this era what the truth is and they will tell you the Earth is flat. That belief was squashed when it was determined that the Earth was round and we revolved around the sun. Was the belief "wrong?" No. It worked for those people, so it was right for them. But the struggle it took for the new information to become knowledge was monumental. Galileo lost his life over it. People have their "truths" and their "beliefs" and when those beliefs are challenged, they get defensive because no one wants to admit they were wrong and no one wants the established walls of thought to come crashing down around them and they have to start over. Beliefs are very quickly followed by complacency. If I believe in a God who washes away all my sins, etc., do I still look for growth? Not the christians I know. They base life around their principles which are fallible, and defend those till the bitter end. More time is spent defending these walls than expanding them. Expansion is dangerous, says the christian, because we are but servants of God who can never ever fathom His will or His plan. Fuck that. I am made in His image. I have the inner being Paul speaks to the Corinthians about. It is not only possible, but necessary to accept responsibility that comes with the birthright of being made in His image. Our responsibility is to progression. In many countless cases in humans history, progression has been blocked by people holding onto beliefs. Wars have been fought over religion and belief.
When I believe in nothing, I hold no preconceived notions about anything. I live off of my experiential knowledge. Faith is defined in the Bible as "the hope of things unseen." But what happens once you see those things? Do you still need to hope in them? Hell, no. I have direct knowledge of those things and hope, faith in them is not necessary. It is in this way that beliefs block progression. If you have no beliefs, and live off of knowledge and a desire for more experience, progression is at your fingertips.
Belief is not unavoidable. You can tell me that it is, you can give analogies like when I flip on a light switch I "believe" it will come on, when I turn my key in my car I "believe" the ignition will turn over, etc. But come on. Let me explain about the beliefs being dangerous, turning minds into non-functioning mode.
For a long, long time, people believed the Earth was flat. Nay, they KNEW it. It was truth. Ask anyone in this era what the truth is and they will tell you the Earth is flat. That belief was squashed when it was determined that the Earth was round and we revolved around the sun. Was the belief "wrong?" No. It worked for those people, so it was right for them. But the struggle it took for the new information to become knowledge was monumental. Galileo lost his life over it. People have their "truths" and their "beliefs" and when those beliefs are challenged, they get defensive because no one wants to admit they were wrong and no one wants the established walls of thought to come crashing down around them and they have to start over. Beliefs are very quickly followed by complacency. If I believe in a God who washes away all my sins, etc., do I still look for growth? Not the christians I know. They base life around their principles which are fallible, and defend those till the bitter end. More time is spent defending these walls than expanding them. Expansion is dangerous, says the christian, because we are but servants of God who can never ever fathom His will or His plan. Fuck that. I am made in His image. I have the inner being Paul speaks to the Corinthians about. It is not only possible, but necessary to accept responsibility that comes with the birthright of being made in His image. Our responsibility is to progression. In many countless cases in humans history, progression has been blocked by people holding onto beliefs. Wars have been fought over religion and belief.
When I believe in nothing, I hold no preconceived notions about anything. I live off of my experiential knowledge. Faith is defined in the Bible as "the hope of things unseen." But what happens once you see those things? Do you still need to hope in them? Hell, no. I have direct knowledge of those things and hope, faith in them is not necessary. It is in this way that beliefs block progression. If you have no beliefs, and live off of knowledge and a desire for more experience, progression is at your fingertips.
I understand completely what you mean. That is the problem with most that believe. I agree actually. But, I am a christian, and I do seek progression. I do not think that what I currently know about the world around me and God is all there is to know. I know that if I was to solely defend the things that I currently know, I would be a fool. Progression the only way, we are not just puppets of God that sit here as blind little servants. That was not the reason we were created. I hate the fact that nearly every christian has their nose up to everyone that disagrees with them. We were created in his image, with desire, with the need for knowledge. God would not cut off our circulation. At least, that is what I think. But hey, I may be wrong, I am not infallible, I just believe what I think is right. God and Progression equate for me.
The above has been very interesting, I must say. But my interpretation of Pushit works well for me...
I see it as a man struggling with his two sides, survival and compassion. The gap is the void which must be crossed in order to pass from this hellish place to the brighter, higher ground where the race will go if we choose to evolve.
1) Choke this infant here before me
Whatever part of the race that refuses to realize our potential, whatever part of the race that refuses to grow up and instead chooses to remain infantile, the speaker will choke (metaphorically, of course, meaning he will do nothing to stop the death that will consume that part of the race). It is necessary, but this is what conflicts with the speaker's sense of compassion.
2) What is this but my reflection
The part of the race that refuses to recognize will still be a part of the race at this point, therefore a reflection of the speaker in the sense we are all reflections off of each other.
3) Who am I to judge just like you do
A question, posed to himself, describing the conflict.
4) Pushin me, shovin me down
Our littlest actions will affect everyone in the world. The group that continues to push after greed, lust, other physical things affect those who want to ascend spiritually. It drags us down.
5) Rest your trigger on my finger/bang my head upon the faultline
A dig at those unwilling to see their light, its almost as if they want the speaker to put them out of their misery, or they push the speaker to the point where he feels he is being pushed into a corner and needs to be rid of these people.
6) Put me somewhere I don't wanna be. Seeing someplace I don't want to see. Never wanna see that place again.
This is a miserable whining voice. The speaker is looking at the place where the people are pulling him, or pushing him, trying to keep him. He hates it. There is no reason to stay here when he knows the other side of the gap holds so many pleasures and the absence of fear and pain.
7) When I say I might fade like a sigh if I stay/You minimize my movements anyway/I must persuade you another way
The speaker tells the group that he will wither away if he stays here, but they dont care. They are selfish. They keep him down anyway. So therefore, he must persuade them another way, hence all the choking and ripping of throats.
8) There is no love in fear
This is the culminating factor!! He is compassionate towards those of the race that will not make it, but understands that they do not feel love. They only fear, and fear is what drives greed and other aspects of the race that we currently possess.
9) Staring down the hole again. Hands upon my back again.
Another reference to how he feels when being pushed around.
10) I will always love you as I throw your fucking throat away/It will end no other way...
This separation is done out of love, the speaker finds. To love the race, he has to take his part in helping those who want to evolve instead of worrying about the ones who dont. We will kill those who arent ready with tears in our eyes. We love them, but we also love life, and it is necessary to do this in order for life to continue.
paraflux, your views are very detalied and exciting I agree with your point of view. I agree, but not with all of it.
__________________ The Unwilling Mind of the Altered Soul.
I understand completely what you mean. That is the problem with most that believe. I agree actually. But, I am a christian, and I do seek progression. I do not think that what I currently know about the world around me and God is all there is to know. I know that if I was to solely defend the things that I currently know, I would be a fool. Progression the only way, we are not just puppets of God that sit here as blind little servants. That was not the reason we were created. I hate the fact that nearly every christian has their nose up to everyone that disagrees with them. We were created in his image, with desire, with the need for knowledge. God would not cut off our circulation. At least, that is what I think. But hey, I may be wrong, I am not infallible, I just believe what I think is right. God and Progression equate for me.
Notice I didnt say that belief was wrong necessarily. For most people it is a stepping stone to divine experience and direct knowledge. Hell, I went through it. I dont knock beliefs for the stepping stone they are, but rather for the bonds they ensnare minds with if the mind isnt cautious and always looking. Sounds like you are using belief for the purpose of growth, which I cannot blame you for at all.
Location: a long time ago..in a galaxy far far away
Posts: 286
Bincount™: 57
Re: I hope this doesn't piss Maynard off!
I would first like to say that noone is wrong about what the song means, because they are for you to inturpret. That's why maynard doesn't release all lyrics or at least not right away, like in the cd jacket or something.
MY OPINION on the song is that is definatly written and a parental relationship theme. But also written from a very different point of view than most of you have been guessing at. The speaker is the parent.....DUH
what are you but my reflection. Duh
Who am i to judge or strike you down...i have bred you , learned you, guided you and you still do wrong.
He speaks almost constantly of all the restrictions put on the parent by the child, of the pains and frustrations a child can cause with the pushing of bounderies, rules....
of the undeniable urge to smack the shi* out of those little brats and say sit down and shut up....most people have love for the child that far overpowers the urge, but it is still in everyone's mind that has been with a child for more that a 24 hr period.
I wish i could expand on my opinion, but i am posting at work between my boss walking through
right about everything except for the fact that the oedipus complex is a bunch of bullshit. Seriously, talk to any psychologist - or even better, talk to someone who TEACHES psychology. They will tell you the same thing.
Freud did a lot of good in setting the stage for psychology, and was the first person to touch on the id/ego/superego. Then there was also the human defense mechanisms he did (about 95% of the work was actually done by his daughter Anna, but he was overseeing it so he got credit. That happens with nearly all scholastic writing/research in terms of psych). But thats about all he did of worth. The psycho-sexual developement of a child is WAY OFF. GET THIS THRU YOUR FUCKING HEADS PEOPLE HE WAS WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
it doesnt suprise me that being his bro, you would of course suckle on him. Maybe you got fucked up in one of these said stages?
"because it fits" is possibley the worst explanation for something to be right. "Hey... My dick fits in this chick who I just raped... That means I was right in doing so." There is LOTS of shit that fits in with the catholic church and all their beliefs that are FUCKING WRONG. Just because they believe they are true, does not make them true. The same goes for you.
now, now, children, no need to turn into a psychobitch.
OK...The reason why things like the Oedipal complex among many other Freudian and Jungian theorems, have been denied by psychologists is not because they've been proved wrong but moreso not proved right. I've heard enough to be convinced that in fact this is about a connection between mother and son
Of course another reason why some of you may reject my interpretation is because you have repressed Oedipal desires yourself. No? Well, I am sorry to say, but everyone has them, so, 'fess up!
Umm... I don't fully agree with you, either. I'm really intrigued by the thought you put into it, but I don't think it's entirely true to the song. Just my opinion. Oh, and I'm a girl, so I don't have the whole mother-fucking complex. :)
"because it fits" is possibley the worst explanation for something to be right. "Hey... My dick fits in this chick who I just raped... That means I was right in doing so." There is LOTS of shit that fits in with the catholic church and all their beliefs that are FUCKING WRONG. Just because they believe they are true, does not make them true. The same goes for you.
I sort of disagree. I think that just because someone believes it, does not make it true, but just because it isn't true, doesn't mean that it is wrong. Just because someone believes something and you don't, doesn't make it wrong either. If something works for someone, and thats what they want, love ect., then it is right for them. It doesn't really matter if it is right for you or to you, as long as that someone is happy with it, and it works for them, and as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs upon you, then there is nothing wrong with it, IMO.
__________________ "Music can name the unnameable and communicate the unknowable"
If I was best friends with my dad when I was little and my mom hated him and they just lived like roommates, would that make me not want to bang my mom. I don't think that I do. I don't have sexual thoughts about her, and I've had sex with several females. I was never emotionally attached to them, though. Actually the only chick I have strong feelings for, is this shy christian girl, who is far too "moral" for her own good and who's idea of a relationship, is I buy shit for her, but we don't have sex.
Recently I've been coming into contact more and more with the Mother archetype. At first, upon my initial interactions with the archetype, I saw her merely as an empty symbol. But now I am beginning to see her as a living entity. This insight came about as I looked deeper into my relations with my personal mother.
I realized I was still very much affected my relationship with my mother. All this supposed progress I had made seemed to be null. I still felt angry, hateful, furious, violent and abusive towards her. Upon further examination, I began to see something behind her. Actually, I saw something behind the interactions that had occured over all these years between me and my personal mother. It seemed as if there were some third party involved; another being with its own interests and needs. Though I never ran any specific processes (for more info on processing, see my post "Scientology--The Real Fucking Thing" in the Anema section), I briefly saw that my mother and I were living out some sort of script. It looked almost like a play. So, it seems at some point both my mother and I made high-level agreements with each other to act out this play, with the Mother Archetype being some sort of Cosmic director. So this myth is real. It's a play I am a player.
The question now is do I have a choice? Am I somehow obligated to act this out? In the Old Testament, when the Jews acted against their covenant (agreement) God punished them. Is that what has been happening to me? It looks that way because every time I rage against the Mother, manifesting as rage against my personal mother, I get punished. In the future I plan on running specific processes to resolve this conflict.
*To DistortedxUnity*--If one looked, one might find that one has lived out previous existences. If one finds this to be true, one might also find that one has lived as both male and female at times. If one finds that one has lived as a male, one might find that one still possesses persisting decisions, postulates, considerations from a male point of view that have carried over to the present lifetime. Note: I never said anything about you.
*To tuniabdoh* -- Are you asking my opinion and/or analysis?
Yeah, if you have the time. You seem to know alot about Freud and Jung (at least more than I do). Even if you can't or don't have the time, thanks for taking the time to post all of this.
To get the right answers, it takes asking the right questions. And asking the right questions has everything to do with using the right words. Here are some questions that might yield some interesting answers. A strong word of warning: these questions can stir up some shit in your psyche. You may become very overwhelmed, and end up more confused than when you began. Of course there is also the very real possibility that after running these out for a while you may find yourself feeling better than you ever had your entire life. You may find that it has opened you up to life in new and exciting ways.
Advice: Run each question out until it feels clean to you. Be sure and acknowledge when you have insights, cognitions, realizations, etc. Always refer to yourself in the second person "you." Set aside a specific time and space to do these. Try and not ruminate about this shit all of the time.
General questions:
1.) Imagine the Ideal Positive Mother and the Ideal Negative Mother. Then, compare your mother to these ideals. Note: there is a very fine line between the two ideals. Do the same thing with the "Father."
2.) What did your mother/father do that you wish she/he hadn't done?
3.) What did your mother/father not do that you wish she/he had done?
4.) Locate specific viewpoints concerning females/males in general. How might your mother/father have shaped these viewpoints?
5.) Was there ever any competition beween you and your father for your mother's attention?
Specific questions (be very careful with these):
1.) Locate a traumatic incident concerning you, your father and/or your mother. Look at the incident from as many viewpoints as possible (your viewpoint, your mother's, father's, etc). How did this make you feel? Note: it's important to find the specific emotional tones present, like fear, apathy, hatred, anger, grief, rage, hostility, anxiety, confusion, spiritual/physical death. What kind of decisions/solutions might have been made at this time? Are these decision/solutions still present?
2.) Spot any unconscious/hidden/inhibited/enforced/desired/curious communications made between you<-->yourself/you<-->mother/you<-->your father/your mother<-->your father (Run each type separately. For instance, the first question would be: Spot any unconscious communications between you and yourself)
3.) Imagine yourself being free to communicate anything you wanted to yourself and to your father and mother.
Most of those questions don't seem to apply to me. Maybe they do. Perhaps a way more objective viewpoint is needed. I'm probably cloudy, I should grab a squegee. Thanks for the questions, I don't know if they would relate to everyone though.
Theoretically, one should be able to naturally feel what one needs, spiritually or otherwise. Unfortunately, people can rarely see what it is they need to do to grow. This has to do with something I call "active identification." If someone is actively identifying with something or some event, they will be blind to that particular area. Example: when my body requires nutrients I might say, "I am hungry." Why wouldn't say, "My body needs food." This would be because I am "actively identifying" with my body. I cannot see that I HAVE a body because I am too busy BEING a body.
In regards to the subject of this thread, one might not see that one HAS the Oedipus Complex because one is too busy BEING the Oedipus Complex. It's really a matter of space. That's why a third party, such as a psychologist or loving friend, can be extremely beneficial. They can easily see things you cannot because they are not identifying with the things that you seem to be. They can then coax you into a different space to help you look at and know yourself in a different manner.
To tie this into a larger perspective, I have mentioned over and over again the so-called "anatta doctrine" or "Not-I doctrine" that Siddhartha Gotama came up with. This is exactly what I am referring to above. If one could adopt this anatta doctrine thoroughly, then one could learn to see one's self from larger and larger spaces. All it takes is spotting phenomenon and dis-identifying one's self with it. It helps to hold a loving attitude as one learns to really employ the anatta doctrine. Shit, why not?
I'm done trying to enforce communications on this thread. It was probably unethical of me to even suggest that anyone suffered from the so-called "Oedipus Complex" (is anyone else getting fucking sick of that phrase?). I'd like to permeate a more curious tone with my communcations. I would just like to know what others think, feel, know about what's being written. Everything I have said here is my truth. I leave your truth to you.
i get blown away by all this. I've gotten JT Crace's explaination butthe context escapes me, when he elaborates. I can't wait until my brain develops fully
It makes a lot of sense. I always ask people to answer questions with me and sometimes for me because I know that they are objective while I am not. I know that I can not see me for me because I am too busy trying to understand who I am, while it is easy for others to answers questions for me because they see who I am and do not need to sort through conflicting hopes and realities that I possess.
I think this fits in, in part, with an idea that I have that denial is the first of human reactions.
"This is not me, I'm not mechanical." -Marilyn Manson
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Do females never have any of these ego problems, or is there a different version for both sexes? Just curious.
Oh, and I like your interpretation JTGrace, but I've always tended to see the song more as Paraflux described it, rather than the whole mother fucking angle. And hey, since you (JTGrace) believe so strongly in the Jungian Theory, what do you think the consequences for the children of same sex marriages are going to be in terms of the Oedipus Complex? Are they going to revere both their mothers as the Mother Archetype, as you put it, or perhaps place one of the mothers into the father role? And what about children with two fathers, with no true female presence in their childhood at all? Bet Jung never counted on that wildcard in his theory...
yesterday i listened to the song for the thousands or so time in my life and i suddenly had an idea....
Pushit= push shit = shittin
I will choke until I swallow...
Choke this infant here before me.
you eat, the food is an infant- when its grown up it becomes shit
What is this but my reflection?
Who am I to judge and strike you down?
ok? you shit and reflect about it- shit = reflection of food
But you're
Pushing and shoving me.
You still love me and you pushit on me.
should be as obvious- c`mon you push the shit- and you love the food
Rest your trigger on my finger,
bang my head upon the fault line.
Take care not to make me enter.
'cause if I do we both may disappear.
youcant hold up the feeling that you have to shit- sooner or later you`ll have to
(now you have to imagine the "mr.hanky"-perspective- what I mean is the shit sings this parts)
But you're pushing me,
Shoving me. Pushit on me.
But i'd trade it all
For just a little bit of
Piece of mind.
you know the feeling when you either have to shit really hard- but you cant cuz theres no toilet around or something
Put me somewhere I don't wanna be.
Seeing someplace I don't wanna see.
Never wanna see that place again.
now the piece opf shit drops into the toilet (listen to the music- like flushing down something)
Saw that gap again today
As you were begging me to stay.
Managed to push myself away,
And you, as well.
If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay,
You minimize my movement anyway,
I must persuade you another way.
if you try to hold up the shit you can hardly move as freely as you can when not in that urge :)
There's no love in fear.
Staring down the (ass)hole again. - mr.hanky`s perspective again- he`s afraid to be dropped in the cold & ugly toilet again- he knows the gam
Hands upon my back again.
Survival is my only friend.
Terrified of what may come.
terrified- cuz it is in the "gap" between the anal-inside and the "toilet"outside
Just remember I will always love you,
Even as I tear your fucking throat away.
But it will end no other way.
dont take it too serious - just another stupid funny interpretation + xcuse ma stupidd english
I hope this doesnt piss off the creator of this stupid thread!!
YOU ARE OVERANALYTICAL; HE FUCKING WROTE THAT SONG ON DEXTROMETHORPHAN.
Jesus christ, nobody learns anything from my presence.
__________________ Mistakenly posted on my door a few weeks ago:
"Dear Mr. Hesk,
I know you got drunk, broke into my house and shampooed my cats again. If this happens one more time I'm calling the police. I'm sick of this."
I must confess that I didn't read all of the above submissions (as happy coincidence would have it, no more than a second or two after printing that bracket, my watch beeped to tell me it's about 4 am) and, to be frank and honest, I didn't want to wade through a lot of comments similar to this one;
YOU ARE OVERANALYTICAL; HE FUCKING WROTE THAT SONG ON DEXTROMETHORPHAN.
(No offence Cyanide Christ:)
But I just wanted to say that I think that your interpretation fits the description of the song perfectly, but this thread shows that (like mythology) ideas can be very multi-faceted by way of symbology (even shitty one's like that of DancingFlame). And although you seem to have hit the nail on the head (in my opinion), perhaps Maynard wrote the song on Dextromethorphan after all, and the whole thing was an act of semi-unconscous insight that just happened to coincide with Jung's theories (which, really, should only serve to reinforce them), regardless of the fact that he had no idea what any of the symbology could possibly behold, and for no other reason than an ironic lack of a connection with reality.
I don't want to go all soppy and say stuff like "that's just the beauty of art, I suppose", but I think I just did, and fuck it, why not, it's pretty much my point (except to say that this reinfoces my suspision that all things are unified, and if examined properly, any answer can be found by asking any question, as long as you are prepared to disregard language for - possibly - the majority of answers that you may be seeking).
I like that I know a bit more about the theories of Freud and Jung now though, thanks for that:)
P.S. I shall return and read more of my predecessors when dawn isn't so near (I love working nights, I really do).
Alex (Al-Co,) Downs
__________________ Science is war.
War is science.
Life is better than that.
Well I must say this has to be one of the most thought out interpretations of a song I've run across. I don't really agree though, as I've had no experience of being attracted to my own mother (other peoples mothers maybe.. XD) but not my own.. Cept.. well.. When I was like, 4 I asked my mom to marry me, but there was nothing sexual about it really.. o.o. Damn you XD
I also can't really relate to this idea because I'm not really familar with these philosphers you're speaking of. Again, very well thoughtout belief though.
__________________ -CyberWolf,
Keeper of Uselessness
It's been a very long time since I first initiated this thread. Like probably many before me, I am just too fucking lazy to go back and re-read it all. But, the things that I wrote were true to me at the time. I think a lot of it still remains just as true, but others portions may have turned out to be lies. But, here are some other ideas, opinions, cognitions concerning the subject at hand (the so-called Oedipus complex)...
There are two facets of reality: the specifics and the generalities; or the Particulars and the Universals. A wonderful writer by the name of Max Sandor provided a great illustration of the relationship between them. First, imagine an electro-magnetic field--it's difficult, I know, because it's invisible--but imagine it being there in space, and imagine it having a specific structure. Next, imagine slowly throwing charged particles at the field. Eventually, we will be able to observe it's structure; it will have substance, solidity, mass, etc. Where before it was "there" but we could not observe it. Now the field is still "there" but we can observe it.
The field is analogous to the Archetypes. The charged particles are analogous to the particulars of reality--this is the level of the physical universe. So again, there is the Mother Archetype. And then there is your mother.
I was doing an exercise once concerning the deeper layers of thought. I was only mildly successful but I came out of it with a whole new perspective on reality. I saw that what we think of as "real" may not be as real as we think. For a split second I caught a glimpse of Plato's Ideas. I saw that physical reality was only a heavy, massive, solid distortion of Thought. This realm of thought is the place of archetypes. These are the ideas that create this physical reality that is so heavy, and so there and so in the fucking way! Geoffrey Filbert wrote that the physical universe is an overly-literal, super-dramatization of Life. Life is really not here, this is simply where we've put it. And we've put it here so long that we are all thoroughly convinced that all we are are protons, electrons, and neutrons.
So what the hell does this have to do with a rock-n-roll tune? It's important to KNOW (be AWARE of) that your mother did not create YOU (nor did any other being). YOU create yourself. This may be the essence of Maynard's lyrics.
Oh, and as far as looking at Orestes in light of a mother/son relationship? APC lyrics are so intuitive and emotional (and so Yin) it can be very difficult to try and analyze them too rationally, in my opinion at least. But "Umbilicalchemist," you may be on to something--let me know what you come up with!
wow ok, dunno if ny1 reads this thread but i found it very insightful.
i never thought of pushit as an oedipal drama.
i always thought of it of a man having to leave someone he loves , because he is desctructive in nature, or because staying would be catastrophic. so he is torn.
but now i c the song does fit perfectly with the oedipus complex.
i'm not saying maynard wrote that, but it seems to work for me as a meaning and mood for the song, especially the end bit when he must kill his mother to get rid of her, even though he will always love her.
also it ties up very much with Orestes, i tink someone mentioned the mth already so no need to say again.
very very cool thread,
had a delightful religious spat also ... sexy
