Way to follow along! LOL

Why did you post all that shit about the war. I am curious.

I was proving why I thought their point of view is morally wrong.

Whether or not that was warranted or instigated, I saw it fit to atleast support my own assessment.

It came off as really douchbagish.

finally, some humor!

That's your opinion.

It makes it no less true.

I'm still waiting on your rebuttal, John.

Feel free to present it when you stop laughing.

It doesn't matter whether its true. I personally agree with what you said. The way you said it just came off like you were a huge tool. SO judgemental and closed minded.

It was a generalization, not an argument presented towards one specific person.

Don't just make assessments without supporting them. If it's judgemental and closed-minded then please explain how.

I'm not saying that my claims are irrefutable. I presented an argument. If my argument was baseless or flat out wrong, then a simply rebuttal could have proven that.

It's called debating. Unlike some, I'm not trying to restrict debate, I'm advocating it.

This was judgemental.

And I was wrong.

It's not that difficult to admit.

alright, i stopped.

i'm sorry you're taking this whole thing personally and feel the need to go point-for-point with an intentionally-absurd post where all I did was make some social commentary on how it's ironic that "liberals" and "independent thinkers" are close-minded when it comes to the majority of the nation (ideologically; actually women are the majority coming in at or about 51% of the population).

i think we all just need to relax, drink, smoke, do whatever you gotta do, turn on some D/R/T and spiral away the next glorious 20-odd minutes.

Dude, you dont think all those massive insults you threw my way were restrictive to debate? all i see from your camp is the massive hammer of your opinion coming down on those you percieve to disagree with you. Open up, dude.

Not taking this personally at all. Merely having discussion.

You don't seem to be big on rebuttals, but I just want to know why liberals are presumably closed-minded?

I gave my assessment on Conservatives.

Considering that the president's poll ratings are in the 30s, while the Republican Congress's ratings are in the 20s, I'm not sure how you can say that the majority of Americans are in favor of the current status of the Republican party. To me, it seems that the closed-minded are the few that still believe that the current direction of this nation is the right one, as well as the one favored by the majority of this nation. Clearly not the case.

Also, assuming the skewed perception that many Americans are presented by distorted news sources and sometimes outright propaganda, you can even argue that an American concensus still may not hold the best interest of this nation, and more importantly of the rest of the global community.

Perhaps we do need to relax, but what has transpired should not be taken lightly. Doing so would be negligent to say the least.

However, this probably isn't the forum for such a discussion, and that's probably why you'd rather we got on to other things and other discussions. Considering the forum, I'll agree, although I doubt Tool would take issue with any form of thought expansion.

How did I massively insult you? I already admitted that I wrongfully misjudged you.

However, that doesn't change the fact that my argument is still up for debate, and anyone choosing to take issue with it has full authority to do so.

I haven't restricted any kind of debate. I STARTED the debate, and anyone that wishes to refute my claims can do so.

Restricting debate would be claiming that an artist shouldn't discuss his/her political views, which was done, and which was one of the main reasons why I took issue with this thread to begin with.

Don't misperceive a strong argument as a one-sided debate. Debates take two people, I simply provided my side...

^ this. I dont feel like this is a debate, i feel like this is you trying to assert your intellectual superiority, and i don't appreciate it.

Then I apologize.

That wasn't my intention, and I did misjudge you.

Mistakes and misinterpretations happen.

It almost doesn't matter if you apologize. I appreciate that you're willing to admit you were wrong, but i doubt that you realize what i'm taking issue with. Its not the fact that you thought i was a "closed minded conservative" that i take issue with, its the way that you reacted to me when you thought i was. VERY antagonistic. This is not how someone who wishes to change minds comports themselves.

So, you take issue with the fact that I made a mistake and assumed that you fit the mold of a generalization that I was trying to depict?

Is it so wrong for someone to make a mistake?

I think you're making more of an issue out of this than you should be. A misjudgement was made, it was acknowledged, and then an apology was granted. Now you're trying to drag it out to make you seem like the better person.

If you want to claim that you've never made a mistake then I'd love to hear it. If not, then perhaps you can empathize a bit?

once again, its not the mistake that was made that i take issue with. I dont care if you accidentally thought I was a "closed minded conservative". Its that it shows how you react to closed-minded conservatives in general.

I wonder if this is how wars happen? Arguing about pointless shit. Indeed its true!

At his computer...24/7. This board is littered with his negative posts.

Its much more littered with my ambiguous ones.

No, I understand what you're trying to do... you're trying to imply that I'm a hypocrite.

What I'm saying is, I made a mistake, and it'd be hypocritical to look down on someone simply for doing so, especially when fault was admitted and an apology was granted.

Yes, it was closed-minded for me to assume that you fell in line with typical conservative thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I hold a closed-minded view against all conservatives.

I have a number of conservative friends, some more open-minded than others.

You're assuming that I have some sort of ill-seeded disdain towards everything conservative, and that isn't the case. I'm not some disgruntled democrat. I'm no democrat at all.

Yes, there are various perceptions of reality, and you seem to be claiming that a conservative's perception would lead them to believe that they are indeed right, and that's true, it does. However, regardless of perception, there is a tangible reality, discernable or not, and I do what I can to find that reality as objectively as possible.

I think that's fairly open-minded.

If, in my journey, I discover that my perception is wrong, then I do not hold a bias that will prevent me from accepting any kind of reality. A closed-minded person would be incapable of doing so.

So, once again, you're ASSUMING that I'm closed-minded just because I misjudged you. I don't think that made me closed-minded. That just made me wrong.

If I were truly closed-minded, I'd be incapable of even discerning the fact that I was wrong.

Please buddy explain to me how this could be a critism of me when you post twice as frequently as I do. Negative posts? not everything can be roses all day long, anyways go re-read the reason for this post and you'll understand my point a-hole......yeah I know facts can get a bit annoying but look it up.

And you seem to be incapable of understanding my point.

he wasn't talking about you, i dont think.

Oh....I guess thats possible

I'm beginning to wonder if there even is one.

I've articulated it clearly enough.

Sorry, I was not talking about you...I was talking about the guy you were taking issue with: submachine or whatever back on page one. I should have included both quotes...sorry about the confusion.

Sorry to you as well. Seems we were both getting at the same thing about submachine.

Also thanks for correcting me Oberon I realized I was wrong after reading your post.

Interesting.

that would make alot of sense if this album was actually heavy.

No, im saying famous artists with large audience based on their art should keep their opinions to their art, lest the populace consider them an "Authority" to worship.

10k isn't that heavy though. most of it is really mellow. why did they keept saying it would be heavy when it really isn't? I was expecting more rocking out.

It's easy to be a liberal when you're relaxing all day in mansions inside gated communities, these artists and actors and singers speak for no one but their wealthy brethren.

The only people who will view them as an authority are sheepish individuals and therfore would latch onto anything they do and that cannot be controlled or resticted.

^ You mean like Iconoclast?

Typical liberal, wrong about even the smallest things but always with the loudest (and still wrong-est) voice in global politics.

And now I lol.

Maybe when they are in power? Which is precisely why you and those you would follow are thankfully not :)

Directed towards me? If so no, I was speaking in general terms.
Also one admitting their own mistakes to me is a sign of personal growth and should not be frowned upon or mocked.