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It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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Last edited by martyrinexile86; 05-05-2006 at 09:21 AM..
05-05-2006, 08:55 AM
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#1
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Level 8 - Vociferous
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Christian archetype
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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"Must be something I forgot down on Bullshit Avenue"- George Harrison
Last edited by martyrinexile86; 05-05-2006 at 09:21 AM..
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I'd Agree...
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05-05-2006, 09:07 AM
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#2
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
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Re: Christian archetype
I'd Agree...
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05-05-2006, 10:13 AM
i have to agree as well, but i would say people use religion as more of and excuse than a tool. those who use it as a tool know it and are the truly evil ones.
05-05-2006, 10:13 AM
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#3
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Level 2 - Poster
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Re: Christian archetype
i have to agree as well, but i would say people use religion as more of and excuse than a tool. those who use it as a tool know it and are the truly evil ones.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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I think the reason this song is so religious is because she was. In her obituaries she was made out to be very religious despite what happened to her. I think he's kind of mocking the heavens but he's also saying if this place exists then she really deserves to go there, which was really described by the lines:
You're the only one who can hold your head up high
Shake your fist at the gates saying
I have come home now
Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended
I mean, pillar of faith? That's pretty big.
05-05-2006, 02:27 PM
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#4
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Re: Christian archetype
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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I think the reason this song is so religious is because she was. In her obituaries she was made out to be very religious despite what happened to her. I think he's kind of mocking the heavens but he's also saying if this place exists then she really deserves to go there, which was really described by the lines:
You're the only one who can hold your head up high
Shake your fist at the gates saying
I have come home now
Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended
I mean, pillar of faith? That's pretty big.
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pretty much what I said
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05-06-2006, 07:24 AM
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#5
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Level 8 - Vociferous
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Re: Christian archetype
pretty much what I said
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05-06-2006, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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I agree 100% with you. Although i thought the whole "you were the light and the way" part was his personal relationship to her. She was his guide through life, and we will only read about her in her obituary and on this site.
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05-06-2006, 07:32 AM
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Level 11 - Clamorous
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Re: Christian archetype
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity ("You're the one who illuminated a little piece of the divine") and ("You were the light and the way they'll only read about"). Seems Maynard is saying that although he never really took too much stock in religion or the beliefs thereof, if there is a heaven or some kind of alternate reality then his mother is the only one deserving of going to such a place, being that she was the only person he knew throughout his life that really lived her faith and never passed judgement on anyone, as opposed to those who just use god and religion as a tool to exploit and judge one another. Any thoughts?
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I agree 100% with you. Although i thought the whole "you were the light and the way" part was his personal relationship to her. She was his guide through life, and we will only read about her in her obituary and on this site.
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05-06-2006, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity
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I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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05-06-2006, 07:57 AM
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#7
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alpha male (tdn $upporter)
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Location: Land of the Free
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Re: Christian archetype
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyrinexile86
It seems to me that in this song Maynard sees Judith as the archetype of Christianity
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I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutered
I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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I dont buy into the ressurection either. My wife and her family are very religious so inadvertantly I am in contact with that entity on some level and I can tell you that those who "believe" really believe. They talk about the power and magic of the resurrection. I always find it interesting that folks like this cannot fathom magic on any level other than that. Talk of witches, ghosts, and magic and they balk at it. But a guy rising from the dead after dragging a cross and being crucified on it is totally believable.
I read an interesting book not to long ago...the name escapes me....that presupposed that Jesus did exsist but that he was just a man, a philosopher (pre Socrates) and that his philosophy was infectious to those around him. Hence the being put to death by crucifiction (Much like Socrates and a slew of other philosophers were put to death) Cristianity is just a by product of the Jesus myth which has been perpetuated to keep the most survivable, and successful business ever going strong. It aims to corral the weak..
I mean come on the Bible works off of some pretty simple core values...don't steal, dont kill, love everyone, basically be as good as possible.The problem like Kant and others have pointed out is that we cannot as humans do that because we have the capacity of free will. From that we dont simply just seek to eat, sleep, fuck, and be happy like the animals - instead now we also seek what is right and just. The key is the last phrase because from that if something is not just then we impose our free will to impose justice. That is the problem with the human condition. We cannot ever just "be" because we are always looking to see what is right and wrong, and correct it ----- Silly Monkeys.
Sorry...I guess I guess I went off on a tangent and posted multiple song thoughts here...oh well. This album certainly stirs the pot!
05-06-2006, 01:14 PM
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#8
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: illinois
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Re: Christian archetype
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutered
I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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I dont buy into the ressurection either. My wife and her family are very religious so inadvertantly I am in contact with that entity on some level and I can tell you that those who "believe" really believe. They talk about the power and magic of the resurrection. I always find it interesting that folks like this cannot fathom magic on any level other than that. Talk of witches, ghosts, and magic and they balk at it. But a guy rising from the dead after dragging a cross and being crucified on it is totally believable.
I read an interesting book not to long ago...the name escapes me....that presupposed that Jesus did exsist but that he was just a man, a philosopher (pre Socrates) and that his philosophy was infectious to those around him. Hence the being put to death by crucifiction (Much like Socrates and a slew of other philosophers were put to death) Cristianity is just a by product of the Jesus myth which has been perpetuated to keep the most survivable, and successful business ever going strong. It aims to corral the weak..
I mean come on the Bible works off of some pretty simple core values...don't steal, dont kill, love everyone, basically be as good as possible.The problem like Kant and others have pointed out is that we cannot as humans do that because we have the capacity of free will. From that we dont simply just seek to eat, sleep, fuck, and be happy like the animals - instead now we also seek what is right and just. The key is the last phrase because from that if something is not just then we impose our free will to impose justice. That is the problem with the human condition. We cannot ever just "be" because we are always looking to see what is right and wrong, and correct it ----- Silly Monkeys.
Sorry...I guess I guess I went off on a tangent and posted multiple song thoughts here...oh well. This album certainly stirs the pot!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutered
I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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Archetype- An example of a type
__________________
"Must be something I forgot down on Bullshit Avenue"- George Harrison
05-07-2006, 06:25 PM
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#9
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Re: Christian archetype
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutered
I'm no Jerry Falwell (thankfully) & don't know a ton about Christianity, but doesn't the archetype deal with a death/rebirth? It doesn't really seem to fit w/this song. It seems Maynard is eulogizing his mom, accepting her death, etc. I haven't fully absorbed the record yet, but the Christian archetype didn't make sense to me, unless you could elaborate?
I'm under the impression that the archetype is allegorical and can be applied to the same sense of personal death through ego-loss and subsequent rebirth as 'being one' or however you want to look at it. That's the only way the whole Jesus rising thing makes sense to me; I just can't buy the whole actual miraculous physical resurrection. Plus there existed similar motifs in previous religious systems (Ishtar; Osiris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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Archetype- An example of a type
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