actually i thought it was a way of someone saying here, take my hand, i will hold you close through the difficult parts of life. the parts where you feel there is no reason to live, or where you feel you are a burden on others, or just feel like the world is dropping a dump in your lap.
some people may be there to comfort you, but only you can make the changes.
who is it that is outstretching their hand? none but me, its my inner strength.
so to answer your questions its about anal fisting, yourself.
That's why I said "as well" ("For me it sounds like Stinkfist is about FISTING, as well..."). I meant: besides the metaphor it is also literal, right? All metaphors have literal bases, otherwise they wouldn't be metaphors... so for me this song clearly refers to fisting, besides the metaphorical senses.
That's why I said "as well" ("For me it sounds like Stinkfist is about FISTING, as well..."). I meant: besides the metaphor it is also literal, right? All metaphors have literal bases, otherwise they wouldn't be metaphors... so for me this song clearly refers to fisting, besides the metaphorical senses.
No, a metaphor doesn't have a literal base, that's why it's a metaphor, it's using an example as a reference in describing something else. They use the terminology as if it were about anal fisting, however it actually has absolutely nothing to do with it. So once again, NO, it's not about anal fisting in any literal way whatsoever.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
It's a well established fact that every album Tool writes has at least one song which is literally referring to butts and things going into/coming out of them.
Yeah, I guess you're right.....
[walks away feeling defeated]
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
No, a metaphor doesn't have a literal base, that's why it's a metaphor, it's using an example as a reference in describing something else. They use the terminology as if it were about anal fisting, however it actually has absolutely nothing to do with it. So once again, NO, it's not about anal fisting in any literal way whatsoever.
A metaphor has to have a literal basis. You said: "it's using an example as a reference in describing something else". So: "as a reference". As a reference to what? To the LITERAL meaning of the words or ideas you're using to express that concept. You also said: "they use the terminology as if it were about anal fisting", so: you yourself is saying they use words which refer back to anal fisting, "as if it were anal fisting". Then: it is also about anal fisting, anyway. They're probably saying something else (lots of "somethings else", actually), but to construct these metaphorical ideas they had fisting going along on their way.
Anyway, Rivek had easily convinced you about the literality being present in the song. You were so fucking sure and suddenly, with one post, you changed your mind completely and "walked away feeling defeated"...
for me this song is about sexual dominance. the fisting describes how we after a while con the people we love into doing things for us that they wouldnt normally do in the name of "show me that you love me." so yes the song is basicly about fisting lol.
__________________ enjoy whatever tool existence there is left
find a comfortable space, comfortable yet venerable and enjoy the music.
A metaphor has to have a literal basis. You said: "it's using an example as a reference in describing something else". So: "as a reference". As a reference to what? To the LITERAL meaning of the words or ideas you're using to express that concept. You also said: "they use the terminology as if it were about anal fisting", so: you yourself is saying they use words which refer back to anal fisting, "as if it were anal fisting". Then: it is also about anal fisting, anyway. They're probably saying something else (lots of "somethings else", actually), but to construct these metaphorical ideas they had fisting going along on their way.
Anyway, Rivek had easily convinced you about the literality being present in the song. You were so fucking sure and suddenly, with one post, you changed your mind completely and "walked away feeling defeated"...
Rivek "TEVE A MANHA"!!!
LOL, wow, what are they teaching you kids down in Brasil? Of course there has to be a literal base to what a metaphor is describing otherwise it'd be referencing absolutely nothing. But using a metaphor in no fuckin way means that the thing you are describing has anything to do with the metaphor. If I say, this pizza taste like ass....it doesn't mean "literally" that the pizza tastes like ass or has ass in it. lol, wow, believe whatever you want kid....go tell your friends that this song is about anal fisting then..whatever, lol
And as for the comment with Rivek....you're apparently the ONLY genius here who didn't know I was being sarcastic.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
> No, a metaphor doesn't have a literal base, that's why it's a metaphor (...)
> Of course there has to be a literal base to what a metaphor is describing otherwise it'd be referencing absolutely nothing.
At least "down in Brasil" they teach us "kids" to have an at least minimally concrete, solid and coherent opinion on things...
for me this song is about sexual dominance. the fisting describes how we after a while con the people we love into doing things for us that they wouldnt normally do in the name of "show me that you love me." so yes the song is basicly about fisting lol.
I agree completely. FISTING being a metaphor to DOMINANCE. Not only sexual, but of all kinds.
And I think that most of the times "show-me-that-you-love-me" turns out to be highly "addictive" for the person who craves for those "proofs". She/he tends to need growingly convincing "proofs"... I think it's very unlikely to take that path and be satisfied somewheres. Well that's what I believe.
And, Rivek, I tried to remember an English expression for that thing I said but couldn't... That was only a comment I thought pertinent. Maybe it could be "Rivek knows the ropes!" =) Think it's the closest I can get.
i love a happy ending to metaphorical anal fisting
the lines "this may hurt a little but its something you'll get used to" seems to me like it could refer to the things we people do to "relax, slip away", smoking doesnt feel good yet millions of people still smoke, cigarettes or otherwise.
i love a happy ending to metaphorical anal fisting
the lines "this may hurt a little but its something you'll get used to" seems to me like it could refer to the things we people do to "relax, slip away", smoking doesnt feel good yet millions of people still smoke, cigarettes or otherwise.
I agree with the idea but don't like the example. Usually who smokes feels fucking good when they smoke. Infinitee, for example, likes it a lot! =) If the person smokes but still doesn't feel good doing it, it's probably pure addiction...
And by the way, I think sometimes it is exactly the "it-DOES-hurt-a-little(or a lot)-indeed" that makes people keep doing that over and over again... (I mean, when it hurts in either physical, emotional, psychological or whatever way). Something masochistic.
And by the way, I think sometimes it is exactly the "it-DOES-hurt-a-little(or a lot)-indeed" that makes people keep doing that over and over again... (I mean, when it hurts in either physical, emotional, psychological or whatever way). Something masochistic.
like the burn of snorting, or the sting of a needle?
like the burn of snorting, or the sting of a needle?
this is more the example i was thinking, but i wasnt able to word my thoughts correctly at the time.
dont get me wrong, i enjoy the feel of some fine herb, but even that took some getting used to at first. i was referring to things like crack, DMT or salvia to name a few, things that really hurt the lungs.
"blend and balance pain and comfort deep within you"
to me that's all about drug abuse. when you're 'elbow deep' in addiction, your moods swing, you're depressed when the high wears off and you feel like a douche for getting so far into a hole.
not necessarily, specifically the "say the word and we'll be well upon our way" because once you say the word you really are well upon your way - finger, knuckle, elbow, then shoulder deep inside the borderline have nothing to do with sex or drugs, at all.
All i'm saying is once you acknowledge whatever presense you sense is there, you're off and if your not careful it will take you places and lead you in directions you never thought possible. Whether it's in your mind or something else is irrelevant, the fact of the matter becomes that both the good and the bad come out, in full force and have to be dealt with accordingly, all the while not interfering with the day to day aspects of your everyday life.
that's the thing though, once you recognize something is there, YOU have to say the word - otherwise finger deep inside the borderline is as far as you'll get. If you don't get what that means you never will so don't bother trying to understand it and just take the music for what it is.
I might take you more seriously if you formed your own sentences. It's not hard, really. Just try it.
Ok i'll give it a shot, but just to be an asshole i'll first tell you that since Rosetta Stoned and Stinkfist are pretty much the same song i'm going to use the most significant lines of Rosetta Stoned to "dumb down" what Stinkfist means.
1. "Alrighty then picture this if you will" -- go into this thing with an open mind or dont go into it at all.
2. "Holy fuckin' shit - holy fuckin' shit - holy fuckin' shit" -- this is significant because the first time you notice this sort of thing you're like holy fuckin' shit this can't be real can it? Turns out it is.
3. " A message of hope for those who choose to hear it and a warning for those who do not."
It is entirely possible that those who hear/acknowledge/understand this perceived message are doing so for a specific reason. Following the message in a positive manner is where the hope comes from. Ignoring or interpreting the message in a negative manner is where the warning comes in. Those who cross the line will be punished in ways they will never understand.
4. "Don't even know what that means but remember to write it down"
writing down the incidences/hints/messages is key to understanding why you are receiving them. For example I seem to be getting them at specific times when I am doing specific activities (writing or in some sort of deep thought) And it's not so much that I "hear" the message but that I feel it so when it happens I make a note of it for example - finishing chapter 2 11:11 - I just got some "holy fuckin shit" idea 2:22 - It can't really be that easy can it? 12:34 (my list is about 50 incidents long so far)
writing them down is the only way to know if you are interpreting the message in the correct manner ( I think) and whether or not you should continue pursuing what seems to be going on.
5. "you beleive me dont you, please beleive what I just said"
Do not under any circumstances expect anyone to beleive what you just said. Ever. That's one of the many catches of this ultimate catch22. The reason being is that it is impossible for someone who this is not happening to, to ever understand it.
6. Don't know - wont know.......
Even mjk does not know and will not ever know where any of this comes from. It's just a guess but i'd say that the reason so few tool songs have any specific meaning is because none of the band members actually know whats causing them to create what they are creating.
Obviously tool creates their own music, they're not instructed by some mythical diety or anything but at the same time i do think they are directed, they've followed the message correctly and have been rewarded for doing so.
As a separate independent thought i'll say that I did not really know who this band was until recently. I don't know anything about music, time, rhythym, metronomes or guitars but I do know that i've been feeling very 46&2ish lately (whatever the hell that means) Also I would not be talking about any of this ( for fear of being called crazy) if it wasn't for the fact that I heard someone credible talking about it. MJK made the comment that syncronicities are like natures way of throwing a person a bone for some reason. When the reporter asked him if this idea made him more comfortable, knowing that the univerese was all connected in some way he stated "no it makes things much, much more confusing" He's absolutely right, this sort of shit makes things much, much more confusing.
And yes Irisu I do realize that 90-95% off all tool fans have no idea why the band is as good as they are, or why they identify with so much of their music and that many of them are basically idiots just like the general population. I also know that I am in a sense an idiot when it comes to this sort of shit because I have no idea what I am talking about. I'm just interpreting the music and lyrics in the way that they seem to have been "designed" to be interpreted. It's a tricky subject and when you have no one else to talk about this sort of shit with it can drive you mad because you know something is going on you just can't put your finger on what it is. And i'm not sure what rule number 7 might be but it may have something to do with this sort of shit because you can't really talk about it or expect others to understand it. All this sort of subject matter does is scare people because it is so difficult to beleive.
I guess that's what happens when you try to put a years worth of thoughts into a paragraph. Tell me then regular users of this site: Is it pointless to discuss this sort of thing here? Or should I just take a different approach?
Ok i'll give it a shot, but just to be an asshole i'll first tell you that since Rosetta Stoned and Stinkfist are pretty much the same song i'm going to use the most significant lines of Rosetta Stoned to "dumb down" what Stinkfist means.
1. "Alrighty then picture this if you will" -- go into this thing with an open mind or dont go into it at all.
2. "Holy fuckin' shit - holy fuckin' shit - holy fuckin' shit" -- this is significant because the first time you notice this sort of thing you're like holy fuckin' shit this can't be real can it? Turns out it is.
3. " A message of hope for those who choose to hear it and a warning for those who do not."
It is entirely possible that those who hear/acknowledge/understand this perceived message are doing so for a specific reason. Following the message in a positive manner is where the hope comes from. Ignoring or interpreting the message in a negative manner is where the warning comes in. Those who cross the line will be punished in ways they will never understand.
4. "Don't even know what that means but remember to write it down"
writing down the incidences/hints/messages is key to understanding why you are receiving them. For example I seem to be getting them at specific times when I am doing specific activities (writing or in some sort of deep thought) And it's not so much that I "hear" the message but that I feel it so when it happens I make a note of it for example - finishing chapter 2 11:11 - I just got some "holy fuckin shit" idea 2:22 - It can't really be that easy can it? 12:34 (my list is about 50 incidents long so far)
writing them down is the only way to know if you are interpreting the message in the correct manner ( I think) and whether or not you should continue pursuing what seems to be going on.
5. "you beleive me dont you, please beleive what I just said"
Do not under any circumstances expect anyone to beleive what you just said. Ever. That's one of the many catches of this ultimate catch22. The reason being is that it is impossible for someone who this is not happening to, to ever understand it.
6. Don't know - wont know.......
Even mjk does not know and will not ever know where any of this comes from. It's just a guess but i'd say that the reason so few tool songs have any specific meaning is because none of the band members actually know whats causing them to create what they are creating.
Obviously tool creates their own music, they're not instructed by some mythical diety or anything but at the same time i do think they are directed, they've followed the message correctly and have been rewarded for doing so.
As a separate independent thought i'll say that I did not really know who this band was until recently. I don't know anything about music, time, rhythym, metronomes or guitars but I do know that i've been feeling very 46&2ish lately (whatever the hell that means) Also I would not be talking about any of this ( for fear of being called crazy) if it wasn't for the fact that I heard someone credible talking about it. MJK made the comment that syncronicities are like natures way of throwing a person a bone for some reason. When the reporter asked him if this idea made him more comfortable, knowing that the univerese was all connected in some way he stated "no it makes things much, much more confusing" He's absolutely right, this sort of shit makes things much, much more confusing.
And yes Irisu I do realize that 90-95% off all tool fans have no idea why the band is as good as they are, or why they identify with so much of their music and that many of them are basically idiots just like the general population. I also know that I am in a sense an idiot when it comes to this sort of shit because I have no idea what I am talking about. I'm just interpreting the music and lyrics in the way that they seem to have been "designed" to be interpreted. It's a tricky subject and when you have no one else to talk about this sort of shit with it can drive you mad because you know something is going on you just can't put your finger on what it is. And i'm not sure what rule number 7 might be but it may have something to do with this sort of shit because you can't really talk about it or expect others to understand it. All this sort of subject matter does is scare people because it is so difficult to beleive.
I read maybe the first 30% of that and I just couldn't bare to read any more ridiculousness
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Stinkfist= A fist that has been up a butthole and is stinky. How could this song not be about fisting a butt, or whatever you can apply this raunchy metaphor to in your life?
Last edited by Negentropy; 12-30-2009 at 01:40 PM..
As far as most of us know, coming from TOOL, a song title is not to be taken literally.
You know? In the 70's sodomy was still illegal in most states and "on the books", according to a sociology prof of mine, and I think that writing a song based around this metaphor is in a sense breaking through another barrier of repression in our society. We all feel so comfortable talking about anal fisting, but our parents would blush, even when they were young. I'm not going to go into a long winded interp of this song, but only a short winded one. The fist is whatever you want it to be, drugs, chocolate, sex, tv, or an actual fist. The butthole is your emptiness that your are filling with whatever this fist manifest itself as in your life. Ultimately Disposition and reflection are coming to terms with your emptiness or your self, to be Buddhist about it.
DISCLAIMER: YOU MAY NOT HAVE A FIST IN YOUR LIFE AND ARE UNABLE TO RELATE.
just silencing any and all comments coming from the fistless.
I read maybe the first 30% of that and I just couldn't bare to read any more ridiculousness
tool does make this shit complicated and I have no idea where following their idea may lead but I do know that I basically have no idea what I'm talking about and am just learning.
if you want a really ridiculous stretch the song Kings and Queens by 30 seconds to mars is the same idea as Stinkfist and Rosetta Stoned.
You know? In the 70's sodomy was still illegal in most states and "on the books", according to a sociology prof of mine, and I think that writing a song based around this metaphor is in a sense breaking through another barrier of repression in our society. We all feel so comfortable talking about anal fisting, but our parents would blush, even when they were young. I'm not going to go into a long winded interp of this song, but only a short winded one. The fist is whatever you want it to be, drugs, chocolate, sex, tv, or an actual fist. The butthole is your emptiness that your are filling with whatever this fist manifest itself as in your life. Ultimately Disposition and reflection are coming to terms with your emptiness or your self, to be Buddhist about it.
DISCLAIMER: YOU MAY NOT HAVE A FIST IN YOUR LIFE AND ARE UNABLE TO RELATE.
just silencing any and all comments coming from the fistless.
it's a good interpretation, bc sniffing painkillers, blasting yourself with booze, gambling away all your money etc..... definitely fill voids or diguise demons people dont want to address.
But I still get the feeling this song is intended for those who are able overcome these demons and take their life to the next level and by that I mean putting their faith in something far greater than themselves e.g. A higher power, God, Buddha, or whatever you choose to call it.
so I guess "relax turn around and take my hand" could be the drug, sex, or chocolate telling you not to worry and follow and trust in it, or it could mean - now that your all done with that sort shit take the hand and trust in something greater than yourself and see where it leads.
