I don't really expect any response to this, but...
So familiar and overwhelmingly warm, this one, this form I hold now. Embracing you, this reality, here; this one, this form I hold now--so wide-eyed and hopeful. Wide-eyed and hopefully wild. We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment, choosing to be here, right now. Hold on, stay inside. This body holding me, reminding me that I am not alone; this body makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment choosing to be here, right now. Hold on, stay inside this holy reality; this holy experience. Choosing to be here in this body. This body holding me, be my reminder here that I am not alone. This body; this body holding me feeling eternal. All this pain is an illusion. Alive, I, in this holy reality; in this holy experience. Choosing to be here in this body. This body holding me, be my reminder here that I am not alone. This body; this body holding me feeling eternal. All this pain is an illusion. Twirling around with this familiar parable; spinning; weaving around each new experience--recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing. A chance to be alive and breathing. This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment. Remember: we are eternal; all this pain is an illusion.
In case anyone is reading this with actual interest: I absolutely love these lyrics, as will some if not most of you, I suspect, and they inspire me to live my life, cheesy though it may sound. I have a question regarding this that I don't really expect answered but I think I want to put it out there anyway. I was sitting around with a friend, listening to music and it was getting late so I suggested we listen to only one more song--a Tool song. The friend responded with vague disgust, based on some fans of Tool that they had known in the past, but admitted to never having heard them. I played the song "Parabola" (starting from "Parabol," of course) and couldn't help but sing along because the lyrics really mean a lot to me--again, I know, cheesy, but bear with me. So when the epic song winds down I asked what they thought, ready for them to pick apart the music for being too long and wandering or thinking that the singing was annoying or something. Instead, the reaction was entirely different.
The music and singing were fine, if not great, according to my friend, but the lyrics seemed to deeply disturb them. I still can't figure this out, but somehow I feel terrible. They said that the viewpoint seemed entirely naive to them (which is, I suppose, viable criticism, if supported well) but aside from that it was much weirder. Apparently this song which I feel to be extremely positive somehow opened up a ton of negative feelings--they literally said that they just sort of hated everything, because of how the song emotionally impacted them. Profound, I guess, but not exactly what I (or Maynard, I'm sure) was hoping for.
That's about it...I guess the weird thing is that I feel like a jerk for sharing this song that very much exemplifies my view of life--not because my friend didn't like the music, but because my friend is now in an extremely disturbed mood somehow. I'm not entirely sure why I'm openly telling this to a message board, but I'm curious if anyone can offer me any sort of insight into this. Do these lyrics inspire you to violence and hatred? If you don't particularly care for them that's one thing, but to invoke the exact opposite emotion they create in me is fairly incomprehensible to me. I find the song to be so beautiful that while it's one thing to be indifferent towards it, to be so frustrated and angered by it confuses me to no end. So yeah, that's all I have to say about it, really. Don't feel the need to respond to this unless you really feel you have anything to say; or if you've had a similar experience sharing Tool's music with anyone. I really just wanted to get what I was thinking down in words and if you happen to be as confused as I am, maybe you can at least validate the way that I'm feeling right now.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
The only thing I can really think of is your friend is pessimistic, or that they are going through a rough time and are depressed with life. You mentioned they said the lyrics are naive, which makes me assume that your friend feels it's naive to view life with such a positive outlook. Your friend may be depressed inside without actually showing it to you. Also he or she may have a problem with the holy and eternal aspect. Maybe they view those as religious ideals and do not embrace religion? I find it odd as well that these lyrics would evoke such a response, but my suggestions are all I can think of.
__________________ Scars are souvenirs you never lose
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
My friends have similar responses to this song or any Tool song for that matter. They believe Tools messages are just bullshit to make us think that there is something in this "NEGATIVE" world worth fighting for that will have a postive afftect on our mind/pysche. They just listen to either rap, country, or the usual every other song on the radio (Nickelback, GAY). Medicore lives but Whatever.
It saddens me as well that my friends dont embrace this music like I do. My friend chris, at first..didnt wanna listen to Tool. About 2 months ago, he started "listening" ever since then hes been hooked. Ive walked into his house and he has lateralus (the song) blasted on his computer system so he has gotten his feet wet...BUT.......
He doesnt embrace the lyrical content like I feel he and everyone in this world should. The message of most all Tool songs have light involved but its our job to make an attempt to find this light..if they choose not to...well then its their lost. Im sorry that your friend has hate or anger or whatever for these songs..Like ONEEYE said...he or she may be depressed but it might just be hidden..People tend to put on a front to make them look superior to someone else but in reality they are more fucked up than you.
Just listen to the music that you enjoy and that inspires you to do positive things in your life...
Remember Survival is my other friend. <~ This is also very important to me..I just take it as "Do everything yourself, people arent gonna help you succeed" Why Do I say this?? Because if you enjoy Tools music and your friend doesnt wanna embrace it...Sprial out, keep going.
__________________ Hey, Do you have a drinking problem?
"No, I pretty much got it figured out."
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
As it turns out, I think a combination of what everyone said was it. Since talking about it more with the friend, my conclusion was that the song just made them rethink their views on choosing to be happy. They were under the impression that choosing to be happy was naive because it meant that you would just ignore all the bad things that happen--an ignorance-is-bliss sort of scenario. I explained that it's not about that at all--see "Ticks & Leeches"--it's about taking the problems and bad things in your life, dealing with them as is appropriate and whatnot, but choosing to overcome them and remain positive despite that. So really, the song just caused them a lot of frustration by making them rethink so much, because its easy to hear in the song that the four of them really mean what they are communicating. Which is, of course, what I find so incredible about the band to begin with. And I think I agree, Rivek--this is easily one of their greatest songs. I'm quite a huge fan of the "Disposition"/"Reflection"/"Triad" suite as well, but "Parabol(a)" just makes me want to live my life. Thanks for the responses, everyone.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Maybe your friend thinks it's about a demon inside of you entertaining himself with the human experience, guarding himself from the one reality while you experience all the pain that he's only seeing vicariously?
Haha, now there's an imagination.
Anyways, I agree with the above posts in response to the angry friend. I think that the song/lyrics apparently hit a nerve that made him reflect for a minute on his own life...probably feeling unfulfilled as a human being and a person. Some people tend to resist sadness by displaying it in anger. You know, like the tough guy that would rather die than be seen being soft or having an emotional side. He probably got angry with himself more or less the song because he is unhappy with himself and his own life not living up to it's potential. I think we all have those moments though where you think you could've done something betterin life or made better decisions when you were younger. I know I have.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivek
I mentioned this discussion in passing to my cousin, who's a large Tool fan as well, and he challenged the idea of all Tool songs having some positivity somewhere. He pointed out "Bottom" as a prime example of his point.
After thinking about it, the upshot inherent in that song is that even when everything has gone wrong and the central character of the song is on their back, broken and bleeding, they still have something to pull them through and keep them going. No matter how negative the motivation, motivation in itself is a positive thing.
Exactly, there is positive in nearly all of their songs, even though they display the cold hard truth that there is an ugly side to everything. Not everything that is positive is butterflies, roses and apple pie...metaphorically speaking.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneeye
The only thing I can really think of is your friend is pessimistic, or that they are going through a rough time and are depressed with life. You mentioned they said the lyrics are naive, which makes me assume that your friend feels it's naive to view life with such a positive outlook. Your friend may be depressed inside without actually showing it to you. Also he or she may have a problem with the holy and eternal aspect. Maybe they view those as religious ideals and do not embrace religion? I find it odd as well that these lyrics would evoke such a response, but my suggestions are all I can think of.
ok, bear with me, remember Nietszche? I know a ton of so-called Nihilists, and the idea that they are the only one responsible for their life, morality and so on has kind of made them into selfish assholes, which defeats the point of being a part of this collective experience, since anything they "earn" will ultimately set humanity back since it is done without respect.
compare that to etc43's problem. where discussing the truths of infinity in such a straight-foreward manner might humble or even fascinate some, is it really so hard to think that others might be frightened by it?
maybe this thing was like the Total Perspective Vortex for this guy? (read douglas adams)
But, bottom line is, as in any aspect of life, if someone is dwelling on an event to the point where it defines their behaviour and judgement, it's probably connected to something deep in his head/past/whateverthefuck.
perhaps not just a simple pessimistic outlook, but a depression of sorts, manifesting itself with negative, childish responses.
(i don't see how it could be seen as naive.)
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Baptiste Spears
ok, bear with me, remember Nietszche? I know a ton of so-called Nihilists, and the idea that they are the only one responsible for their life, morality and so on has kind of made them into selfish assholes, which defeats the point of being a part of this collective experience, since anything they "earn" will ultimately set humanity back since it is done without respect.
compare that to etc43's problem. where discussing the truths of infinity in such a straight-foreward manner might humble or even fascinate some, is it really so hard to think that others might be frightened by it?
maybe this thing was like the Total Perspective Vortex for this guy? (read douglas adams)
But, bottom line is, as in any aspect of life, if someone is dwelling on an event to the point where it defines their behaviour and judgement, it's probably connected to something deep in his head/past/whateverthefuck.
perhaps not just a simple pessimistic outlook, but a depression of sorts, manifesting itself with negative, childish responses.
(i don't see how it could be seen as naive.)
Isn't this pretty much what everyone already said? Something that happened in his life or the way he views himself reflecting in his negative reaction to the song. It was a well worded post but, you basically just repeated the same thing for the 6th time.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
this song reminds me how important it is to be grounded, as well. Probably one of my favorite songs, mainly because i have a hard time grounding myself, i usually live in the future, or the past and that can really have some negative effects on ones self.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
which is very fucking important. and it's nice to see more and more people moving away from concrete belief systems as this whole "god hangover" thing really sets in (dear diary, year 156: the bed still smells like shit and anthills, but i'm too sleepy to do anything about it); i guess the downside is that more and more people are committed to this sort of blind, frictionless hope that things will turn out for the better.
not much of an improvement on faith, but we're learning.
chaos should be a comfort. it takes the edge off all this serious shit, but at the same time validating the need for study.
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When my daughter was 4, we were riding in the car and I was playing one of the filler tracks. You know that one that sounds like howling wind kinda thingee. She told me to turn it off because it was scary.
Tool is EviL
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivek
An astute observation. The whole point behind the Perspective Vortex, the message meant to be conveyed to the reader, is that nobody is an island and we are all insignificant in our own right.
So, naturally, we need to believe that we are important beyond this truth. Any breaking of that comfortable delusion will lead to a collapse of our belief systems.
Some folks tend to think that we need to collapse our belief system.
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjamison27
Some folks tend to think that we need to collapse our belief system.
s'what i'm getting at, dawg. it's the next arena for survival of the fittest; eventually, the evangelical way of life will turn their brains into soup, they will all get locked behind the shower curtain, panic and starve to death trying to get out.
we win, it's only a matter of time.
once their own pathetic view has betrayed them, so long as no one's been nuked, we'll all be fine.
just sit back and wait.
and teach your kids to read...
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Anti religious statement right there ^
I think your friend may not like Tool because they deem the music scary/evil/negative.
I held this viewpoint after seeing the Stinkfist video at night when i was 10 or so.
But once i got bored with Blink182 and Stone Temple Pilots I gave the AEnima album a shot and have been listening happily to it ever since.
My little sis hates Tool, and she says its because
a) its emo
b) its depressing
c) Its crap
This proves that
a) a lot of people think Tool is negative without bothering to listen further
b) my sister is a hypocritical loser who is dating an emo punk
c) I've told you too much....... BANG!!!!
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivek
Woah woah woah.
When I said belief system, I didn't mean just religiously. In fact I didn't really mean religion to be included in that. It's more the belief system that anything any of us will ever do will ever matter.
If you went through life with the realization that you're just a finite essence, and insignificant at that; that nothing you ever do will even infinitesimally affect the universe that you revolve with, would you even care? If any of us truly realized how nonexistant our impact is in the grand scheme, we'd cease to function. So we delude ourselves into believing the microcosm of our planet, our nation, our community, and other, ever-smaller groups are the most important thing in our reality.
It's only through this comfortable illusion that we are able to function properly and it's necessary. This type of a system should never be collapsed, otherwise we'd all be completely useless rather than just marginally and empirically useful.
no sir, no.
if (as etc43's friend already seems to be doing... odd?) we learn to enjoy and accept the fact that we are so insignificunt and pathetic, then we can thrust ourselves into the world with a higher understanding; act more compassionately and so on.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Baptiste Spears
no sir, no.
if (as etc43's friend already seems to be doing... odd?) we learn to enjoy and accept the fact that we are so insignificunt and pathetic, then we can thrust ourselves into the world with a higher understanding; act more compassionately and so on.
Interesting debate this thing created...but I agree with you here. The idea that we mean nothing in the grand scheme of things could be frightening at first but I actually find it liberating. I guess that's another point where people can disagree about lyrics like these, though.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
I find it slightly disturbing to realise that nothing i do will affect the grand scheme of things, so i do delude myself into thinking that promotion, money etc will make me feel better, and take my mind off the topic. But it some ways it is liberating to realise that in the grand scheme of things, no one gives a shit if you do some granny bashing or something equally criminal
(I've always wanted to do a Halo2 style hijack of a mobility scooter! lol)
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool_Is_Sick
My friends have similar responses to this song or any Tool song for that matter. They believe Tools messages are just bullshit to make us think that there is something in this "NEGATIVE" world worth fighting for that will have a postive afftect on our mind/pysche. They just listen to either rap, country, or the usual every other song on the radio (Nickelback, GAY). Medicore lives but Whatever.
It saddens me as well that my friends dont embrace this music like I do. My friend chris, at first..didnt wanna listen to Tool. About 2 months ago, he started "listening" ever since then hes been hooked. Ive walked into his house and he has lateralus (the song) blasted on his computer system so he has gotten his feet wet...BUT.......
He doesnt embrace the lyrical content like I feel he and everyone in this world should. The message of most all Tool songs have light involved but its our job to make an attempt to find this light..if they choose not to...well then its their lost. Im sorry that your friend has hate or anger or whatever for these songs..Like ONEEYE said...he or she may be depressed but it might just be hidden..People tend to put on a front to make them look superior to someone else but in reality they are more fucked up than you.
Just listen to the music that you enjoy and that inspires you to do positive things in your life...
Remember Survival is my other friend. <~ This is also very important to me..I just take it as "Do everything yourself, people arent gonna help you succeed" Why Do I say this?? Because if you enjoy Tools music and your friend doesnt wanna embrace it...Sprial out, keep going.
My first Tool show was Wilkes-Barre in 2001. I brought a friend who didn't really know anything about Tool, but I figured he would be into it once the show was going. He likes a lot of the same bands I do, so I didn't expect him to complain the WHOLE FUCKING TIME that it was a boring show and he had seen a lot better. Well, I was completely blown away by how good they were, and even more so hearing a song like "Eulogy" done live. It was a great experience for me that was completely RUINED by my asshole friend.
The bottom line is: Don't try to convince someone to understand Tool's music, lyrics, concerts or anything like that. You either get it or you don't.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Agreed.
I had a really good friend (rest his soul) that once said, "They're alright, Tool just doesn't do anything for me. Now Linkin Park, that's the best fucking band I've ever heard!"
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Yeah, but I've known people who clearly "got it"-- at least to the extent that the average person on this forum "gets it"-- and they still didn't like it.
Okay, point taken... but I'd still say "mostly" true.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
I concur.
It also took me a long while to really like it much less get it. I was listening for the heavy stuff and found it to be few and far between. One of the more outstanding qualities to me now. I found the intros to be way too long and I couldn't even bear the instrumental tracks. Had a really hard time keeping my interest. The more I listened though, the more interesting everything got.
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Of_Nothing
I find it slightly disturbing to realise that nothing i do will affect the grand scheme of things, so i do delude myself into thinking that promotion, money etc will make me feel better, and take my mind off the topic. But it some ways it is liberating to realise that in the grand scheme of things, no one gives a shit if you do some granny bashing or something equally criminal
(I've always wanted to do a Halo2 style hijack of a mobility scooter! lol)
ok, how the fuck do you expect anyone, especially yourself, to believe that load of shit?
i love you.
seriously, find me one fucking thing in the universe that is actually in a soveriegn state. take something simple: orbit. we need objects of different mass to move close to each other, their mass to form a heirarchical agreement with any other objects involved in the mass dance, the orbit to then begin.
so, now let's look at how many odd 'coincidences' have to happen in order for life as complicated and diverse as it is on Earth to happen. we do, in fact, matter. we are living things that, if we so chose, could create all fucking sorts of new life. we could, if we wanted, bring plant, animal life back to Mars. it's not that hard: produce the greenhouse affect (reflect more light onto the surface of the planet by pumping gasses into the atmosphere). the temperature would rise, and we could, over a few decades or so, have a new planet teeming with all kinds of life.
we don't matter, go fuck yourself. it's all a matter of perspective. if we want to see ourselves as not mattering, we maintain this servile, pathetic nature. if we see our lives as an opportunity to be mindful of other things, act as is necessary, we might be able to avoid the egomaniacal polarity to the meaninglessness. GARDENERS OF THE UNIVERSE, you silly shit!
i love you.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivek
The reason you find it liberating is that you're intelligent enough/aware enough/(whatever the fuck you want to call it) enough to actually entertain such a notion. There are many out there in the lowest common denominator who really couldn't function if they realized that the promotion they've been working their asses off for the past three years to achieve doesn't mean a goddamn thing.
This mentality seems to be the pervading one among the self-proclaimed intellectuals of our time. When you proclaim that people are evolutionarily inferior for not perceiving things the way you do, it is the height of arrogance and the very apex of your ego. Yes, it is easy to say, "People who don't agree with me will die off anyway, and eventually everyone will see things like I do." In fact, it's too easy.
I've seen people say "We mean nothing in the grand scheme." several times in this thread alone. Yes, that is very cool and all, but I'm surprised among all the folks that no one has challenged this. I guess it has to be me. First off, you HAVE to realize a statement like that is entirely relative. I know quite a few physicists who would challenge the idea of what we do not changing anything in the grand scheme. Furthermore, how grand is the scheme we are talking about? Yes, on a Universal time scale, I can see how it may seem unfathomable to see how we could possibly affect the Universe on the evolutionary level, but it's no reason to buy into "We are insignificant pieces of shit that will never do or amount to anything." mentality. I view that as a cop-out. Another reason to throw your hands up in the air and give up. I view religions the same way. For many, it's just a cop-out, something in a nice little package that allows them to feel like they're at the whim of God. Now, intellectuals love the idea that we are at the whim of the natural evolution of the universe.
Either way, people want you to believe you're insignificant, you'll never amount to anything, all your experiences are bullshit, and the sooner you accept that, the better off you are. I'm simply stating that you can have another viewpoint besides this one and not be "the lowest common denominator." There are many ways to view this one reality.
I grow very tired of this shit-talking people do around here as well. "Try to grow a brain and come back when you have something intelligent to say." If any of you have had people talk to you like this, I hope you find comfort in the fact people who speak to others like this usually have some kind of inferiority complex and are VERY insecure when people don't agree with them. So they spray some sharp intellectual witticisms your way in an attempt to make you feel like they do.
I apologize for this rant, but I had to counter this whole philosophy everyone seems to be gobbling up.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjamison27
Don't we want to lower the temperature on Mars?
that's a no. Mars is too cold, and it's atmosphere is far too thin and low in oxygen for humans. raising the temperature on Mars will melt the frozen ocean-sized lakes. melting ice makes for good times. we plant some seeds, wait, watch the plants rip the Carbon into oxygen and c.
it could be done without ever manning missions to Mars. we've had all the knowledge to do it since 1992, but NASA are a bunch of pussies, and no one else really has the money.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater
This mentality seems to be the pervading one among the self-proclaimed intellectuals of our time. When you proclaim that people are evolutionarily inferior for not perceiving things the way you do, it is the height of arrogance and the very apex of your ego. Yes, it is easy to say, "People who don't agree with me will die off anyway, and eventually everyone will see things like I do." In fact, it's too easy.
I've seen people say "We mean nothing in the grand scheme." several times in this thread alone. Yes, that is very cool and all, but I'm surprised among all the folks that no one has challenged this. I guess it has to be me. First off, you HAVE to realize a statement like that is entirely relative. I know quite a few physicists who would challenge the idea of what we do not changing anything in the grand scheme. Furthermore, how grand is the scheme we are talking about? Yes, on a Universal time scale, I can see how it may seem unfathomable to see how we could possibly affect the Universe on the evolutionary level, but it's no reason to buy into "We are insignificant pieces of shit that will never do or amount to anything." mentality. I view that as a cop-out. Another reason to throw your hands up in the air and give up. I view religions the same way. For many, it's just a cop-out, something in a nice little package that allows them to feel like they're at the whim of God. Now, intellectuals love the idea that we are at the whim of the natural evolution of the universe.
Either way, people want you to believe you're insignificant, you'll never amount to anything, all your experiences are bullshit, and the sooner you accept that, the better off you are. I'm simply stating that you can have another viewpoint besides this one and not be "the lowest common denominator." There are many ways to view this one reality.
I grow very tired of this shit-talking people do around here as well. "Try to grow a brain and come back when you have something intelligent to say." If any of you have had people talk to you like this, I hope you find comfort in the fact people who speak to others like this usually have some kind of inferiority complex and are VERY insecure when people don't agree with them. So they spray some sharp intellectual witticisms your way in an attempt to make you feel like they do.
I apologize for this rant, but I had to counter this whole philosophy everyone seems to be gobbling up.
i've never seen so many words without a single thread of syntax. sir, what the hell are you talking about? both pseudo-arguments--both of which are mutually exclusive!--have been touched on by others in the thread, and so you decided to...?
the hubris of the fence-sitter lies somewhere in the placement of bullshit "sorry"'s.
nothing is insignificant, nothing is all that significant. if we become ____ and it makes us forget that we owe everything to everything, then it is a tricksy and false _____. if becoming _____ makes us aware of new things to which we should be grateful, then we are worthy of _____. problems? contradictions?
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivek
I disagree. The first time I ever listened to Tool, while I liked some of the singles I'd heard, I really didn't dig anything else on the album. It was definitely an acquired taste.
I agree that Tool albums might be an acquired taste because the average listener would hear a lot of "filler" material in between the main songs. But for the most part, I think Tool ends up with a fan base like bands like Rush or King Crimson. Dedicated fans who really stand by their band regardless of their appeal to the mainstream.
I just think that if you try to convince someone to "get" Tool, it just won't happen.
When I showed my friend the lyrics to parabola, he said "wow", and then went back to listening to his new Korn CD.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjamison27
I was pretty sure that Mars was closer to the Sun than us and that if you stood on it your shoes would melt...
Venus and Mercury are closer to the sun, and you would burn up before you ever got to put your shoes on Mercury. Venus is a toxic replica of Earth, hotter, too.
the interesting thing is where that asteroid belt came from. it had to be something whole after the solar system became what we know it as today, since those pieces would have been absorbed by other, larger bodies as they all spun helter skelter.
but what?
Last edited by Jean Baptiste Spears; 04-01-2008 at 01:03 PM..
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Rivek, although I used your quote to start my post, much of what was said was directed at Jean Baptiste. Perhaps it wasn't best to quote you, but the two of you seemed to be on the same wave-length.
You make this paradigm shift you speak of seem absolutely necessary when it is clearly a matter of choice. Also, anytime I saw text about "the lowest common denominator" it was used in a derogatory fashion. You know Luciferianism tries to teach a similar lesson in paradigm shifts by removing the ego. I'm quite aware of the benefits you are trying to show here, but this isn't the only way, or the only way that makes sense.
I come from a different school of thought. Everything has significance, much like chaos theory. But in the end, insignificance and significance, in this case, are really nothing more than human values we're attaching to a universe that could care less. I felt as though you guys were chastising those who would dare try to find significance in this reality, and since significance/insignificance is truly subjective and not based in scientific fact, it was hard for me to understand.
Re: I don't really expect any response to this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Yeah, but I've known people who clearly "got it"-- at least to the extent that the average person on this forum "gets it"-- and they still didn't like it.
The average person on here? lol There's maybe 35% of the people on here who actually get it, the rest getted flamed and banned..Haha
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
