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Old 11-08-2006, 12:45 AM   #1
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I don't understand this song..

HI,

I think most of TOOL's songs are brilliant, because they explore issues of philosophy, psychology and spirituality and they have a very good grip on the essence of "Divinity' and 'Spiritual Truth' something that Jesus Christ encompasses fully. But in this song it sounds like they are criticising Christ and his way, and misconceiving his message "pointing his finger ... etc etc." things the real Christ didn't do (unless they are refering to the Religious/Dogmatic Christ. There is also a sense of sarcasm in some of their songs and we can easily see what is an aim to make people think but in this one the tone is more serious and to the point.. I'm really confused, usually I'll go figure out the meaning of songs or they make sense to me quite easily but with this I am totally stumped. Any ideas?


Thanks
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:00 AM   #2
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Everybody is stumped by this song. Maybe it's not aimed at anyone. It's a mistake to think all lyrics have meaning.

I love the way it suddenly turns harsh in the middle, it's one song I truly admire.
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:02 AM   #3
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Re: I don't understand this song..

If you are looking for a good grip on the essence of divinity and spiritual truth you may struggle to see the point of this song. Just going out on a limb here ... feel free to correct me ... but I don't think that Christ is the major focus of this song!
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Old 11-08-2006, 06:20 AM   #4
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Re: I don't understand this song..

if you want to know more about this song you should research a comedian by the name of bill hicks. this song is about him, not christ, as many believe. in the sleeve you will see some artwork regarding bill hicks as another dead hero. much of his comedy revolved around the stigma of drug users in america. he died of a heroin overdose i believe (if i am wrong about this fact, someone yell at me) but a drug overdose nonetheless. knowing that, HE is the martyr spoken of in eulogy, otherwise its a eulogy 2000 years too late and i dont think thats the meaning intended. on a similar note, listen to the intro on third eye, and you will hear a soundbyte of one of bill hicks performances. It might shed some light.
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Old 11-19-2006, 01:33 PM   #5
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Bill died from pancreas cancer: http://www.billhicks.com/outhwaite.html

Nothing to do with drugs, although as far as i can gather from his recordings, he was quite the fan of them.

He really is Another Dead Hero
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Old 11-19-2006, 01:39 PM   #6
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by w4lk4 View Post
if you want to know more about this song you should research a comedian by the name of bill hicks. this song is about him, not christ, as many believe. in the sleeve you will see some artwork regarding bill hicks as another dead hero. much of his comedy revolved around the stigma of drug users in america. he died of a heroin overdose i believe (if i am wrong about this fact, someone yell at me) but a drug overdose nonetheless. knowing that, HE is the martyr spoken of in eulogy, otherwise its a eulogy 2000 years too late and i dont think thats the meaning intended. on a similar note, listen to the intro on third eye, and you will hear a soundbyte of one of bill hicks performances. It might shed some light.
Im not so sure this song is all about Hicks...that said i couldnt really say what it is totally about....i think hicks may have inspired it a bit...but "Get off your fucking cross?" Bill Hicks?
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:00 AM   #7
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Re: I don't understand this song..

How could it be about Bill Hicks?....

The song clearly is speakign negatively of whoever they are talking about.

I don't think the main focus is Christ either, but I think he uses "Get Off your fucking cross" metaphorically.


Who knows who it's about...it doesn't matter. Still a good song.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:58 AM   #8
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by fretforyourfigure462 View Post
How could it be about Bill Hicks?....

The song clearly is speakign negatively of whoever they are talking about..
well if it is about hicks i think it is more directed at the untimely death of the man, and the anger that he wasn't able to teach more of his beliefs...... listen again and tell me what you think.
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:13 AM   #9
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Re: I don't understand this song..

I agree that it can't be about Bill Hicks. the band were clearly great fans of his work and there's some anger expressed in this song that's not general anger at another dead hero, but real malevolence towards the subject of the song, too personal to be aimed at a person they admired and respected.

also 'he had a lot of nothing to say' - cannot be aimed at Bill Hicks. 'we'll miss him' - I have always heard that as tinged with sarcasm

just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:05 AM   #10
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis View Post
Everybody is stumped by this song. Maybe it's not aimed at anyone. It's a mistake to think all lyrics have meaning.

I love the way it suddenly turns harsh in the middle, it's one song I truly admire.
Very good thought. I think esp in these opinions people miss the point of trying to figure the song out and what Maynard means instead of focusing on the real issue; What does it mean to me? I am not sayoing it is wrong to try and figure out the "true meaning" but i do think we should put ourselves into the song and find out what it really means to us and what we can do with it etc.
Tool has always been about finding your own way and thinking for your own self. The last thing they would want to be is the controlling force, or the reason someone does something.
"Think for Yourself...."
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Old 12-09-2006, 10:15 PM   #11
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Re: I don't understand this song..

this song has to be about a christ-like figure...a figure in oragnized religion..for example a narrow minded leader of a church or somthing... it cud welll be directed to the christ he sings about in Judith..not christ the man..but the christ in theory. ."christ" the product...or just to some know it alll fucker who had a lot of nothing to say...
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:51 AM   #12
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktdude View Post
I agree that it can't be about Bill Hicks. the band were clearly great fans of his work and there's some anger expressed in this song that's not general anger at another dead hero, but real malevolence towards the subject of the song, too personal to be aimed at a person they admired and respected.

also 'he had a lot of nothing to say' - cannot be aimed at Bill Hicks. 'we'll miss him' - I have always heard that as tinged with sarcasm

just my 2 cents.


Agreed.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:00 AM   #13
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Okay....I'm stumped. y'all got me thinking, now and i deciced to do a little reseach so i could get my facts straight. so far now i've read that the song is about jesus, bill hicks l. ron hubbard, and strangely enough, paul d'amour. ive checked out the lyrics once again, so i'd have it fresh in my mind, and in my opinion it is not a eulogy to one single person. Tool songs have many meanings, and i don't think that this particular song applies to any one man. when i look at the lyrics i see a positive as well as a negative angle to "martyrdom". it seems to me there is praise for those who go to their graves dying for what they believed in, but near the end they are blasting at those who died spreading hypocrisy. That's what i can come up with for now. This IS a tough one, but thank you guys for encouraging me to take another look
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:19 PM   #14
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Re: I don't understand this song..

I once read somewhere that it was supposedly about Henry Rollins.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:42 PM   #15
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Re: I don't understand this song..

fuck.

you know, fox news frequently creates bullshit reports (and therefore ignorant americans) with "some people say..." - how is your post any different? for example, "i once read in YOXODO's post that it was supposedly about henry rollins". so fuckin' what?


(hey, at least iiiiii gave a source, right?).
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:15 PM   #16
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Re: I don't understand this song..

they are all love songs

its that simple
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:07 PM   #17
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamminsalmon View Post
they are all love songs

its that simple
Not sure where your coming from dude.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:30 PM   #18
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Re: I don't understand this song..

To me, and I stress "to me" because I don't really know, this song is sort of an expansion on Opiate. I'm not so sure that Christ is being used as a metaphor, or if it's an imitation Christ being used as the metaphor. You have this figure who mirrors Christ in so many ways, but there are blatant discrepancies between how Christ was represented in the bible, and how the figure in Eulogy is represented. The figure in Eulogy is using Christ. He is not Christ, he is using Christ. It's a figure that is paralleling himself with Christ but failing to follow his example. Thus, the hypocrisy. I don't think it's a specific person. It's the televangalists, it's the L. Ron Hubbards, and it's anyone who has claimed false divinity. To some, that might actually BE Christ, but that's for the listener to decide. It's not the song's immediate intention.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:39 PM   #19
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_manback19 View Post
Not sure where your coming from dude.
oh just taking away from the actual thought out responses


just doing my part =)
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:18 AM   #20
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamminsalmon View Post
oh just taking away from the actual thought out responses


just doing my part =)
I figured it was an obscure reference to MJK saying that all the songs are about anal.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:24 AM   #21
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Re: I don't understand this song..

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Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy View Post
I figured it was an obscure reference to MJK saying that all the songs are about anal.
my thoughts xact. lol

anaLs3Xxzors r0Xzor.s - i never understood this bullshit... lmao
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:00 AM   #22
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Re: I don't understand this song..

this certainly isn't the first time maynard has referenced
"crumbling images that no longer comfort (him)"

try: "my lamb and martyr (this will be over soon)...
got your hands bound and your head down
and your eyes closed you look so precious now"

are we to put two and two together yet?
"If you look at the cycles of the moon, it starts as a thin crescent and then gradually waxes and becomes full; then it gradually wanes back into another crescent and then is gone. The moon reflects sunlight like humans reflect information. We wax and wane and when we become full moons, our ego's are full. We think we have this knowledge when in fact, the information we have is pure. And it reflects or shines off of us, and it's something we take credit for as though the moon could take credit for the light it reflects from the sun. We have to understand that we are ego-less just as the moon is without light. It and we, are simply reflectors. The ego is not responsible for the information." - i know that you know who said this.

now, take another look at prison sex. i think, to maynard, we all may as well be staked to that crucifix, walking around as submissive lambs instead of the divine creatures he clamours we are. and if we're allllllll one, then "i need you to feel this i need this to make me whole" would make a lot of sense, eh?

"and i know the pieces fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!"
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Old 12-19-2006, 05:14 AM   #23
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Re: I don't understand this song..

I hope it really is about Henry Rollins.
All songs should be about Henry Rollins.
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Old 12-25-2006, 10:10 PM   #24
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Re: I don't understand this song..

I agree with Carbonatedgravy and w4lk4, its about martyrdom.
Hypocrits that exlaim their truth and righteousness for all the wrong reasons. Perhaps false devinity.
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Old 12-27-2006, 07:03 PM   #25
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Re: I don't understand this song..

There you go. It's about FALSE martyrdom.

"You told us how you weren't afraid to die....

not all martyrs see divinty...but at least you tried....

ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart...

I swallowed his façade cause I'm so eager to identify with somone above the crowd...

he had a lot to say, he had a lot of nothing to say!"

So basically, as I see it, what MJK is saying is get off your cross you coward, you fake we neet the space to nail the next fool in line. Don't point your finger, don't lie....you'll be crusified for your sins like everyone else...you are not a saint...goodbye!!!

Jesus Chirst was THE FURTHEST thing from a false martyr.
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Old 12-28-2006, 10:57 AM   #26
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy View Post
To me, and I stress "to me" because I don't really know, this song is sort of an expansion on Opiate. I'm not so sure that Christ is being used as a metaphor, or if it's an imitation Christ being used as the metaphor. You have this figure who mirrors Christ in so many ways, but there are blatant discrepancies between how Christ was represented in the bible, and how the figure in Eulogy is represented. The figure in Eulogy is using Christ. He is not Christ, he is using Christ. It's a figure that is paralleling himself with Christ but failing to follow his example. Thus, the hypocrisy. I don't think it's a specific person. It's the televangalists, it's the L. Ron Hubbards, and it's anyone who has claimed false divinity. To some, that might actually BE Christ, but that's for the listener to decide. It's not the song's immediate intention.
Well said sir
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Old 12-28-2006, 10:59 AM   #27
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Re: I don't understand this song..

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Originally Posted by SMEPman View Post
There you go. It's about FALSE martyrdom.

"You told us how you weren't afraid to die....

not all martyrs see divinty...but at least you tried....

ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart...

I swallowed his façade cause I'm so eager to identify with somone above the crowd...

he had a lot to say, he had a lot of nothing to say!"

So basically, as I see it, what MJK is saying is get off your cross you coward, you fake we neet the space to nail the next fool in line. Don't point your finger, don't lie....you'll be crusified for your sins like everyone else...you are not a saint...goodbye!!!

Jesus Chirst was THE FURTHEST thing from a false martyr.
ABOUT TIME SOMEBODY SAID THAT!!!! SPOT ON SIR, SPOT ON.

I agree, and I believe Maynard isn't against Jesus Christ the man. Jesus was surely a REAL martyr whom DID practice what he preached which was total and utterly pure love for all things. It's the way Christianity and other various religions have turned the true teachings into their own form of propaganda that's ruined the true meaning.

Last edited by Inner_Eulogy; 12-28-2006 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 12-28-2006, 10:21 PM   #28
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Well......in keeping with my general desire to attempt to interpret the songs along face value lines, the song appears (to me) to be another in a list of Tool songs that are in indictment of hypocrisy and false people. The Pot, Ticks and Leeches, and Hooker With a Penis are songs with the same general theme--that of Maynard being totally disgusted with someone's hypocritical behavior, and his letting them hear about it.

Eulogy starts out sounding as if he were attempting to actually GIVE a eulogy to someone who has died. Someone he formerly admired:

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me."

But during the song, it becomes apparent that the person in question has never really died at all:

"You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy?"

The person in question has proven to be an extreme disappointment to the narrator, and he is quick to expose his hypocrisy:

"You had alot to say.
You had alot of nothing to say.

Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies. [sic]
Goodbye..."

Maynard sounds to me like he has realized that the eulogized is a hypocrite, and he is simply expressing anger at feeling mislead by a fool. Happens to us all.

I really believe there is way too much being read into many of these song lyrics. Perhaps I'm all wet on this opinion. I don't know. Maynard is free to tell me I am full of it. It just seems to me that if he wanted to write a song about Jesus, you would pretty much KNOW that the song was about Jesus. He isn't much a fan of Jesus, in case you hadn't noticed.

But the person indicted in this song has apparently failed to commit to dying for his cause, and that irritates Maynard a great deal. To my eyes, this is what the song is about. Just taking it at face value.

OK......I'll shut up now, and let someone else have a crack at it.

Black
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Old 12-28-2006, 10:39 PM   #29
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Re: I don't understand this song..

i just think it has to do with people who pretend they are friends with you, only to gain something other than a friend. usually these are outgoing people, who seem to have it all going their way, and surely dont deserve it. normally after some time you realize next to nothing is going their way. im sure you have met people like this.

you are becoming friends with this person, because this person tries to appeal to all your likes, and dislikes. its human nature to want to be understood, and have somone else understand our perspective. maybe knowingly we know this person has ulterior motives but you still allow them into your life.

this "friend" craves yours, and everyones acceptance. even to the point of saying they would die for you. (extreme, but i have "friends" who have said it.)

it takes time and can be painful to realize, and wake up to the truth about your "friends"

in the end tho, i believe lyrically he points out that we pick our friends, but blame them for the bad "friendship" before we blame ourselves.
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Old 12-29-2006, 06:01 AM   #30
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by fretforyourfigure462 View Post
How could it be about Bill Hicks?....

The song clearly is speakign negatively of whoever they are talking about.

I don't think the main focus is Christ either, but I think he uses "Get Off your fucking cross" metaphorically.


Who knows who it's about...it doesn't matter. Still a good song.

anger is a natural part of the griefing process, this song was said to have been written shortly after bh died. naturally for maynard, he uses this song to assist in the healing process. he did it with his mom's griefing.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:45 AM   #31
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamminsalmon View Post
i just think it has to do with people who pretend they are friends with you, only to gain something other than a friend. usually these are outgoing people, who seem to have it all going their way, and surely dont deserve it. normally after some time you realize next to nothing is going their way. im sure you have met people like this.

you are becoming friends with this person, because this person tries to appeal to all your likes, and dislikes. its human nature to want to be understood, and have somone else understand our perspective. maybe knowingly we know this person has ulterior motives but you still allow them into your life.

this "friend" craves yours, and everyones acceptance. even to the point of saying they would die for you. (extreme, but i have "friends" who have said it.)

it takes time and can be painful to realize, and wake up to the truth about your "friends"

in the end tho, i believe lyrically he points out that we pick our friends, but blame them for the bad "friendship" before we blame ourselves.
Maybe you should pick your friends nose, I mean pick your friends a little better. This post seems more like a personal issue than an actual relation to the song.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:06 AM   #32
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
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This post seems more like a personal issue than an actual relation to the song.
my point exactly
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:33 PM   #33
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_Eulogy View Post
ABOUT TIME SOMEBODY SAID THAT!!!! SPOT ON SIR, SPOT ON.

I agree, and I believe Maynard isn't against Jesus Christ the man. Jesus was surely a REAL martyr whom DID practice what he preached which was total and utterly pure love for all things. It's the way Christianity and other various religions have turned the true teachings into their own form of propaganda that's ruined the true meaning.
And I agree 110% to that statement. THE most bastardized man in history! Bar none. The Catholic church has so absoutely raped that man's message it's down right disgusting!! But hey, if you want to create the world's largest corporation on a bunch of twisted lies, you need to brainwash a SHITLOAD of people.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:40 PM   #34
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Re: I don't understand this song..

I don't know, but in my opinion it sounds like it's about Jesus. I'm not saying i'm right and everyone is wrong- it's just Tool's way of messing with peoples' heads. Their songs mean different things to everyone.

I for one, am not a religious person. But i did go to Catholic school for 12 years so i know my theology. Thus why i'm not religious[lol].

But check it-

"You told us how you weren't afraid to die." - Jesus did state at the Last Supper he will die and he wasn't afraid. When he talked to God before being arrested, it did indeed sound like he was though.

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him."

-This part can be showing the frustration of Jesus showing the people that the church is robbing them and should not listen to them. As you know, he got angry one time when he saw people selling goods in a temple and he went pyscho bitch on everyone.

" Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me."

Someone above the ground would be God, and he feels the same way with Jesus. The frustration of trying to gain followers. And of course Jesus dies for us.

"Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you fuckin lie."

If Jesus didn't die, would their be christianity? Nope, so he better have died eh?

"Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies."

To ascent you must die, come on Jesus man right there lol Easter anybody? :P



That's just my thought... it's not a "YOU ALL ARE WRONG" IT's just my way of listening to the song. But i will say this... the song about Kurt Cobain? that's the worse of them all so far :P
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Old 12-30-2006, 09:02 PM   #35
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Re: I don't understand this song..

"That's just my thought... it's not a "YOU ALL ARE WRONG" IT's just my way of listening to the song."--Chronicle0

I have to say I find this forum refreshing. People are willing to disagree without being disagreeable. That's really a pleasant change. I respect your views, and those of the above posters. I have my own opinions of Jesus, but I won't share them here and now. Eulogy is one of my favorite Tool songs, whomever it refers to.
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:35 PM   #36
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Sorry if this has already been mentioned - there is a post somewhere on this forum which analyzes this song as if it were a Eulogy about Maynard, himself. I thought it was very well written and argued - it convinced me.

I may be in the minority, but I see this as a "Rosetta Stoned type song", in the sense where it isn't entirely serious. This song is Maynard giving a somewhat joking and somewhat sarcastic eulogy of himself, of his own life.

I'll go find that thread now.


Edit: Here it is:
http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=62965
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:24 PM   #37
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Everyone looks to an outside source to this song, that's why they get so confused. I'm telling you, Maynard wrote this song about destroying his ego. I'm pretty sure.
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:31 PM   #38
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Re: I don't understand this song..

Another thing came to mind---


maybe this is Maynard's religious self's eulogy. Since his mother was a devoted catholic[or was it christian?] maybe he was also. But then he came to realize that the religion did nothing to help and he saw it was corrupt-- or something like that.
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:55 PM   #39
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Re: I don't understand this song..

or maybe it could be about False Martyrs
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Old 01-17-2007, 08:12 AM   #40
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Re: I don't understand this song..

i understand it now. :)
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