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07-25-2011, 05:28 AM
Agree with you on the above. Lots of "chugging" for sure.
07-25-2011, 05:28 AM
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#521
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,529
Bincount™: 174
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Re: New Tool Album
Agree with you on the above. Lots of "chugging" for sure.
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07-25-2011, 05:31 AM
tribute to meshuggah
who i fucking HATE
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as above so below me
07-25-2011, 05:31 AM
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#522
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be happy with what you have to be happy with Suicide Booth ID: 2
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: dirty south
Posts: 2,923
Bincount™: 18992
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Re: New Tool Album
tribute to meshuggah
who i fucking HATE
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as above so below me
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07-25-2011, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
"gives a nod to other stuff" to me sounds like running out of technique. adam has never shown off his technique in his playing, but i cant just assume more dexterity is there either. its always seemed to me he focuses on manipulating and texturing the sound rather than learning more scales or playing faster to squeeze in more notes.
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Who cares about technique? We're talking about music, not sport. It isn't technique or the number of scales that you know that makes you a creative guitarist. If Adam had better technique and knew more scales and approached guitar differently then Tool might sound like just another alt metal band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
what makes him good is the way his riffs sound when they play over a heavy thunking bass lines and awesome drum patterns.
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That's just another way of saying he's a good band member. In other words, he plays what sounds good with the rest of his band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
his art, the videos specifically, had a lot to do with me getting into tool in the first place. now that i think about it, he kinda ran out of art too so he "gives nods" to alex grey and whoever else.
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He definitely has his own style of art. He doesn't rip off Alex Grey, he works with him so naturally their work crosses over. Adam's own art is much darker and macabre than anything Alex has done.
__________________
In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
07-25-2011, 05:38 AM
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#523
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: .
Posts: 2,672
Bincount™: 200
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
"gives a nod to other stuff" to me sounds like running out of technique. adam has never shown off his technique in his playing, but i cant just assume more dexterity is there either. its always seemed to me he focuses on manipulating and texturing the sound rather than learning more scales or playing faster to squeeze in more notes.
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Who cares about technique? We're talking about music, not sport. It isn't technique or the number of scales that you know that makes you a creative guitarist. If Adam had better technique and knew more scales and approached guitar differently then Tool might sound like just another alt metal band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
what makes him good is the way his riffs sound when they play over a heavy thunking bass lines and awesome drum patterns.
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That's just another way of saying he's a good band member. In other words, he plays what sounds good with the rest of his band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by praefector
his art, the videos specifically, had a lot to do with me getting into tool in the first place. now that i think about it, he kinda ran out of art too so he "gives nods" to alex grey and whoever else.
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He definitely has his own style of art. He doesn't rip off Alex Grey, he works with him so naturally their work crosses over. Adam's own art is much darker and macabre than anything Alex has done.
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In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
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07-25-2011, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underalus
thanks for the killer defense fellow Canadians. he just loves them fuckin' hammer-ons, eh?
it's not about that though, in all honesty, it's about him making some iconic riffs. Schism is almost entirely hammer-ons at 3-5 or 10-12 but it's still a distinct, recognizable riff that changes. Aenema is a bunch of hemiola'd hammer-ons but ditto for being recognizable.
what I'm saying is the riffs in 10kd aren't very notable. most of that album was just chugging, and even Jambi (don't get me wrong, I think it's a great song but...) was just chugging on the open D for a really sizable percentage of the whole song. The Pot's main riff is like 2 notes, palm muted, and even most of RS is a third eye/H rip off with an AWFUL solo meandering in the middle. The awful meandering solo plagues most of 10KD; it's in Jambi and Wings 2 as well.
Wings 1/2, Intension (despite it just being a sequel in feel and tone to disposition) and Right in Two are the most unique to me but their problems are:
wings 1/2 - guitar doesn't fit vocals. all the different movements are mashed together angularly. most of the song feels like a setup for maynard to sing over but the whole thing lacks cohesion between instruments and vocals
Intension - aside from feeling a bit borrowed, nothing else is wrong with it. probably the best song on the album
Right in Two - forgetting the godawful lyrics for now, the song doesn't get interesting until after the tabla part, which leaves a 9 minute song with about 3 minutes of worthwhile musicmanship.
there. now everyone pick that apart or just agree with it wholesale so I can feel better about myself.
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See if you knew anything you'd know that the music was written without Maynard, then given to Maynard and he sang and created the melodies after the music was already made. You don't know what you're talking about.
Actually play guitar and you'll see whats ripping off and whats not. The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently. Rosetta Stoned solo is played NOTHING like any other of their solos and the riffs are also much different.
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zing!
Last edited by Ganjalf; 07-25-2011 at 09:34 AM..
07-25-2011, 09:32 AM
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#524
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The Lube
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Somewhere..but not here..
Posts: 2,360
Bincount™: 5355
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underalus
thanks for the killer defense fellow Canadians. he just loves them fuckin' hammer-ons, eh?
it's not about that though, in all honesty, it's about him making some iconic riffs. Schism is almost entirely hammer-ons at 3-5 or 10-12 but it's still a distinct, recognizable riff that changes. Aenema is a bunch of hemiola'd hammer-ons but ditto for being recognizable.
what I'm saying is the riffs in 10kd aren't very notable. most of that album was just chugging, and even Jambi (don't get me wrong, I think it's a great song but...) was just chugging on the open D for a really sizable percentage of the whole song. The Pot's main riff is like 2 notes, palm muted, and even most of RS is a third eye/H rip off with an AWFUL solo meandering in the middle. The awful meandering solo plagues most of 10KD; it's in Jambi and Wings 2 as well.
Wings 1/2, Intension (despite it just being a sequel in feel and tone to disposition) and Right in Two are the most unique to me but their problems are:
wings 1/2 - guitar doesn't fit vocals. all the different movements are mashed together angularly. most of the song feels like a setup for maynard to sing over but the whole thing lacks cohesion between instruments and vocals
Intension - aside from feeling a bit borrowed, nothing else is wrong with it. probably the best song on the album
Right in Two - forgetting the godawful lyrics for now, the song doesn't get interesting until after the tabla part, which leaves a 9 minute song with about 3 minutes of worthwhile musicmanship.
there. now everyone pick that apart or just agree with it wholesale so I can feel better about myself.
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See if you knew anything you'd know that the music was written without Maynard, then given to Maynard and he sang and created the melodies after the music was already made. You don't know what you're talking about.
Actually play guitar and you'll see whats ripping off and whats not. The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently. Rosetta Stoned solo is played NOTHING like any other of their solos and the riffs are also much different.
__________________
zing!
Last edited by Ganjalf; 07-25-2011 at 09:34 AM..
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07-25-2011, 02:38 PM
5222012 newsletter is a tuesday. Possible release date? I say Blair is 100% screwing with us here, but it would line up directly with a summer tour??? I think this is too soon though. Late 2012.
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Our body is love
We are eternal... without judgement...
07-25-2011, 02:38 PM
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#525
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: nowhere/everywhere
Posts: 431
Bincount™: 402
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Re: New Tool Album
5222012 newsletter is a tuesday. Possible release date? I say Blair is 100% screwing with us here, but it would line up directly with a summer tour??? I think this is too soon though. Late 2012.
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07-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganjalf
The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently.
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that makes since
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07-25-2011, 03:56 PM
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#526
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seeyouauntie
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pen15
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Bincount™: 8695
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganjalf
The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently.
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that makes since
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07-25-2011, 04:05 PM
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
07-25-2011, 04:05 PM
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#527
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crows before hoes
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fourtheye.net
Posts: 8,273
Bincount™: 8619
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Re: New Tool Album
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
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07-25-2011, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganjalf
See if you knew anything you'd know that the music was written without Maynard, then given to Maynard and he sang and created the melodies after the music was already made. You don't know what you're talking about.
Actually play guitar and you'll see whats ripping off and whats not. The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently. Rosetta Stoned solo is played NOTHING like any other of their solos and the riffs are also much different.
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I knew it was written without Maynard and I can play probably 70% of the Tool catalog on guitar. STRIKE TWO!
You're right about the Vicarious/H ripoff, indeed. The part in Rosetta Stoned where Maynard sings "hey-e-ey" over the hammer-ons going from low D to A to D reminds me of the hammer-on part in H. before "without the skin...". You disagree? That's alright, it's my opinion.
About Maynard's absence during the writing, I assumed this was always the case from Undertow through to 10KD, but perhaps I'm wrong in that assumption. If I'm correct though, something else is to blame for the discordance in their recent song structures.
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07-25-2011, 10:20 PM
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#528
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: canada
Posts: 1,292
Bincount™: 67
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganjalf
See if you knew anything you'd know that the music was written without Maynard, then given to Maynard and he sang and created the melodies after the music was already made. You don't know what you're talking about.
Actually play guitar and you'll see whats ripping off and whats not. The main ripoff would be the vicarious riff which is the exact riff in H. but played differently. Rosetta Stoned solo is played NOTHING like any other of their solos and the riffs are also much different.
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I knew it was written without Maynard and I can play probably 70% of the Tool catalog on guitar. STRIKE TWO!
You're right about the Vicarious/H ripoff, indeed. The part in Rosetta Stoned where Maynard sings "hey-e-ey" over the hammer-ons going from low D to A to D reminds me of the hammer-on part in H. before "without the skin...". You disagree? That's alright, it's my opinion.
About Maynard's absence during the writing, I assumed this was always the case from Undertow through to 10KD, but perhaps I'm wrong in that assumption. If I'm correct though, something else is to blame for the discordance in their recent song structures.
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07-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
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ac/dc and zz top were exceptional at that
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07-25-2011, 10:42 PM
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#529
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Up From The Skies Suicide Booth ID: 13
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Location: Stardust
Posts: 13,112
Bincount™: 26323
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
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ac/dc and zz top were exceptional at that
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07-26-2011, 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
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How do you even "rip off" your own riff!? If you wrote the riff you can do whatever you want with it.
I saw AC/DC and ZZTop mentioned. Funny how those bands are bands that as soon as their song begins you know it's them. Thus the difference between ripping off your own riff and developing your own style.
__________________
In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
07-26-2011, 02:42 AM
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#530
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: .
Posts: 2,672
Bincount™: 200
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
All bands rip off their own riffs, not sure why this is a big deal.
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How do you even "rip off" your own riff!? If you wrote the riff you can do whatever you want with it.
I saw AC/DC and ZZTop mentioned. Funny how those bands are bands that as soon as their song begins you know it's them. Thus the difference between ripping off your own riff and developing your own style.
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In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
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07-26-2011, 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
Who cares about technique? We're talking about music, not sport. It isn't technique or the number of scales that you know that makes you a creative guitarist. If Adam had better technique and knew more scales and approached guitar differently then Tool might sound like just another alt metal band.
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players, mostly, care about technique. technique is what expands your ability to express yourself through music. i even admitted as much that adam seemed to go a different route; rather than learning new techniques he simply found new ways to manipulate the sound of what he already knew how to play. its an observation i have made, and in my opinion, it is a criticism, since i believe guitar players should always be trying to expand what they can produce with the instrument.
Quote:
That's just another way of saying he's a good band member. In other words, he plays what sounds good with the rest of his band.
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show me where i insinuated that he was not a good band member... lol. when i posted that, i meant it as a complement.
however, i dont think he walks in on danny and justin and then pops out the same-sounding riffs. i think he comes up with the basic riff and then danny and justin work their magic within his framework. there can be little argument that adam is the limiting reagent in the tool equation.
Quote:
He definitely has his own style of art. He doesn't rip off Alex Grey, he works with him so naturally their work crosses over. Adam's own art is much darker and macabre than anything Alex has done.
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oh hes not "ripping off" alex grey... hes just using alex grey's art along with his name instead of driving that aspect of the band on his own like he once did.
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07-26-2011, 05:39 AM
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#531
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Level 13 - Nothing Can Defeat the Quad Laser
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 9,029
Bincount™: 1020
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
Who cares about technique? We're talking about music, not sport. It isn't technique or the number of scales that you know that makes you a creative guitarist. If Adam had better technique and knew more scales and approached guitar differently then Tool might sound like just another alt metal band.
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players, mostly, care about technique. technique is what expands your ability to express yourself through music. i even admitted as much that adam seemed to go a different route; rather than learning new techniques he simply found new ways to manipulate the sound of what he already knew how to play. its an observation i have made, and in my opinion, it is a criticism, since i believe guitar players should always be trying to expand what they can produce with the instrument.
Quote:
That's just another way of saying he's a good band member. In other words, he plays what sounds good with the rest of his band.
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show me where i insinuated that he was not a good band member... lol. when i posted that, i meant it as a complement.
however, i dont think he walks in on danny and justin and then pops out the same-sounding riffs. i think he comes up with the basic riff and then danny and justin work their magic within his framework. there can be little argument that adam is the limiting reagent in the tool equation.
Quote:
He definitely has his own style of art. He doesn't rip off Alex Grey, he works with him so naturally their work crosses over. Adam's own art is much darker and macabre than anything Alex has done.
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oh hes not "ripping off" alex grey... hes just using alex grey's art along with his name instead of driving that aspect of the band on his own like he once did.
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Time distortion, space is the place, go down that lonesome highway, but don't be hypnotized. Reincarnation does not have to be. (Mean Gene I 2:3-4)
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07-26-2011, 07:01 AM
I remember reading something where he said that it's mainly Justin who comes up with the riff age.
You're right about the Alex Grey thing. I'm kinda getting tired of Alex's stuff and Adams is awesome. I liked the Melvin's vinyl he did.
__________________
In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
07-26-2011, 07:01 AM
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#532
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: .
Posts: 2,672
Bincount™: 200
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Re: New Tool Album
I remember reading something where he said that it's mainly Justin who comes up with the riff age.
You're right about the Alex Grey thing. I'm kinda getting tired of Alex's stuff and Adams is awesome. I liked the Melvin's vinyl he did.
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In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
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08-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
Tool aren't renowned for breaking musical boundaries and I don't think they've ever claimed that themselves. Also I'd like to hear what riffs you think are rehashed because all I hear is nodding to other bands/songs influences. This is something that Adam has always done. Nods to the Melvin's, King Crimson and even Meshuggah. I hear similarities in riffs between Third Eye and Rosetta Stoned but I'd be surprised if that wasn't intentional. Those two songs have similar lyrical themes. Again, I see that riff as a nod to Third Eye.
Either that or Adam Jones is such an incompetent guitar player that he doesn't know he's copying himself. I find that unlikely.
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I'm pretty sure Vicarious has some Schism riffs, and Roestta has a lengthy section that matches up with H.
I totally get referencing other bands but I'm not sure I buy the fact that he made a consious effort to reference his own riffs. But I supose it could go either way.
EDIT: Agree with you guys on Alex Grey as well. His Lateralus stuff was amazing (and I do believe Adam came up with a lot of that though) but the 10K stuff is just very boring and pretentious. He needs to to come up with some new stuff now.
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Last edited by One Dark Flame; 08-09-2011 at 10:56 AM..
08-09-2011, 10:53 AM
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#533
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Formerly Tool Aenema11
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I flee to Decemberunderground
Posts: 1,268
Bincount™: 362
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
Tool aren't renowned for breaking musical boundaries and I don't think they've ever claimed that themselves. Also I'd like to hear what riffs you think are rehashed because all I hear is nodding to other bands/songs influences. This is something that Adam has always done. Nods to the Melvin's, King Crimson and even Meshuggah. I hear similarities in riffs between Third Eye and Rosetta Stoned but I'd be surprised if that wasn't intentional. Those two songs have similar lyrical themes. Again, I see that riff as a nod to Third Eye.
Either that or Adam Jones is such an incompetent guitar player that he doesn't know he's copying himself. I find that unlikely.
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I'm pretty sure Vicarious has some Schism riffs, and Roestta has a lengthy section that matches up with H.
I totally get referencing other bands but I'm not sure I buy the fact that he made a consious effort to reference his own riffs. But I supose it could go either way.
EDIT: Agree with you guys on Alex Grey as well. His Lateralus stuff was amazing (and I do believe Adam came up with a lot of that though) but the 10K stuff is just very boring and pretentious. He needs to to come up with some new stuff now.
__________________
"DECEMBERUNDERGROUND is a time and a place. It is where the cold can huddle together in darkness and isolation. It is a community of those detached and disillusioned who flee to love, like winter, in the recesses below the rest of the world."
-DXH
Last edited by One Dark Flame; 08-09-2011 at 10:56 AM..
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08-09-2011, 02:01 PM
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
08-09-2011, 02:01 PM
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#534
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Super Bat Kiss
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbusland
Posts: 6,164
Bincount™: 9554
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Re: New Tool Album
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
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08-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
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Oh okay thanks. I thought a bit of Schism was in there as well. I am sure of the Roestta-H. connection though.
__________________
"DECEMBERUNDERGROUND is a time and a place. It is where the cold can huddle together in darkness and isolation. It is a community of those detached and disillusioned who flee to love, like winter, in the recesses below the rest of the world."
-DXH
08-09-2011, 06:30 PM
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#535
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Formerly Tool Aenema11
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I flee to Decemberunderground
Posts: 1,268
Bincount™: 362
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
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Oh okay thanks. I thought a bit of Schism was in there as well. I am sure of the Roestta-H. connection though.
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"DECEMBERUNDERGROUND is a time and a place. It is where the cold can huddle together in darkness and isolation. It is a community of those detached and disillusioned who flee to love, like winter, in the recesses below the rest of the world."
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08-09-2011, 06:40 PM
where proof it, make a youtube
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08-09-2011, 06:40 PM
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#536
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: New Tool Album
where proof it, make a youtube
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08-09-2011, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
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what riff is that?
08-09-2011, 06:40 PM
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#537
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crows before hoes
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Bincount™: 8619
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
vicarious has a riff directly lifted, note-for-note, from the grudge.
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what riff is that?
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08-09-2011, 06:52 PM
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#538
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Super Bat Kiss
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Re: New Tool Album
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08-09-2011, 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
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You're really clutching at straws now...there's probably half a Tool riff copied in almost every Tool song.
08-09-2011, 06:56 PM
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#539
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crows before hoes
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fourtheye.net
Posts: 8,273
Bincount™: 8619
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Eye
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You're really clutching at straws now...there's probably half a Tool riff copied in almost every Tool song.
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08-09-2011, 07:00 PM
oh phew, so an "attack" or "rhythmic technique" within the riff structure is similar. i thought i missed something. how about all the times they land on straight open drop-d (D5) for all of their punching downbeats? flood jambi h stinkfist third eye the grudge all over the place.
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08-09-2011, 07:00 PM
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#540
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Level 10 - Vehement
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Bincount™: 217
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Re: New Tool Album
oh phew, so an "attack" or "rhythmic technique" within the riff structure is similar. i thought i missed something. how about all the times they land on straight open drop-d (D5) for all of their punching downbeats? flood jambi h stinkfist third eye the grudge all over the place.
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08-09-2011, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
where proof it, make a youtube
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i was just kidding btw. thank you for going to the effort though. i love the future!
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08-09-2011, 07:04 PM
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#541
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
where proof it, make a youtube
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i was just kidding btw. thank you for going to the effort though. i love the future!
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08-09-2011, 07:06 PM
no the notes and rhythm are both the same, but whatever... I really don't care, it's their own song
08-09-2011, 07:06 PM
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#542
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Super Bat Kiss
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Re: New Tool Album
no the notes and rhythm are both the same, but whatever... I really don't care, it's their own song
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08-09-2011, 07:20 PM
well now i feel bad.
hey perhaps it's a motif, like the staccato tranced-out dreamstate riffs similar in both the patient and the intro of vicarious ...if it even represents that. i get the sense that an alarm clock is waking someone up before the main riff comes in, the opened/physical eyes riff. but all these references to water, all the swirling microtonal howls of adam's silverburst, danny's heart beat rhythms throughout third eye and jambi ...i can't chalk any of it up to "ripping off their own songs ...those lazy, unoriginal, scab-picking hypocrites." seems like an intentional constant, an idea of its own applicable at certain times, in various ways, under different lights.
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08-09-2011, 07:20 PM
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#543
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Re: New Tool Album
well now i feel bad.
hey perhaps it's a motif, like the staccato tranced-out dreamstate riffs similar in both the patient and the intro of vicarious ...if it even represents that. i get the sense that an alarm clock is waking someone up before the main riff comes in, the opened/physical eyes riff. but all these references to water, all the swirling microtonal howls of adam's silverburst, danny's heart beat rhythms throughout third eye and jambi ...i can't chalk any of it up to "ripping off their own songs ...those lazy, unoriginal, scab-picking hypocrites." seems like an intentional constant, an idea of its own applicable at certain times, in various ways, under different lights.
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08-09-2011, 07:24 PM
I think what all the disgruntled fans are getting pissed about is the idea of waiting such a protracted time span for new music to basically just get riff recycling in a way that's immediately obvious and/or that the riffs are unremarkable. When I say 46&2, Aenema, Schism, 4 degrees, Parabola etc. a very specific, memorable riff comes up.
When I say The Pot, Jambi, Rosetta Stoned, etc. basically all that comes to mind is hammer-on/pull-off combos or something recycled.
It's a fair gripe that some people may not have, but evidently there's a vast enough group of people who agree with me.
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08-09-2011, 07:24 PM
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#544
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Re: New Tool Album
I think what all the disgruntled fans are getting pissed about is the idea of waiting such a protracted time span for new music to basically just get riff recycling in a way that's immediately obvious and/or that the riffs are unremarkable. When I say 46&2, Aenema, Schism, 4 degrees, Parabola etc. a very specific, memorable riff comes up.
When I say The Pot, Jambi, Rosetta Stoned, etc. basically all that comes to mind is hammer-on/pull-off combos or something recycled.
It's a fair gripe that some people may not have, but evidently there's a vast enough group of people who agree with me.
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08-09-2011, 07:51 PM
Let's all hope Tool don't release an album that sounds like a Tool album!
08-09-2011, 07:51 PM
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#545
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crows before hoes
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Re: New Tool Album
Let's all hope Tool don't release an album that sounds like a Tool album!
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08-09-2011, 08:09 PM
really, even the pot?
it's not just recycled... when you say all you get out of the pot jambi and rosetta stoned are soundbite portions of truly masterful (clearly under-rated) riffs, i can only imagine that you don't find it worthwhile or interesting enough to hear/learn the significance, flow, weight, and overall direction involved in their sound within that moment ...utilizing those specific hammer-on/pull-off combos. in fact, those are some of the most tripped out riffs i've ever enjoyed hearing/playing, whether guitar, bass, vox - it's so fuckin' sick man. and the drums are always so crazy intentional. rosetta stoned, the bass part at 7:04 for example. the pot bass intro, the 4:24 breakdown ...idk,idkwut2say. "you better listen" ??? HIGHLY NOTABLE RIFFS!!!
i can't imagine how boring your 70% sounds. are they not notable because only two guitar world issues have transcribed vicarious for you? how condescending am i? yeah, i'm a music snob. i think a lot of tool fans are. i don't like it... but i get off on it.
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Last edited by iAMtheMA!; 08-09-2011 at 08:19 PM..
08-09-2011, 08:09 PM
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#546
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Re: New Tool Album
really, even the pot?
it's not just recycled... when you say all you get out of the pot jambi and rosetta stoned are soundbite portions of truly masterful (clearly under-rated) riffs, i can only imagine that you don't find it worthwhile or interesting enough to hear/learn the significance, flow, weight, and overall direction involved in their sound within that moment ...utilizing those specific hammer-on/pull-off combos. in fact, those are some of the most tripped out riffs i've ever enjoyed hearing/playing, whether guitar, bass, vox - it's so fuckin' sick man. and the drums are always so crazy intentional. rosetta stoned, the bass part at 7:04 for example. the pot bass intro, the 4:24 breakdown ...idk,idkwut2say. "you better listen" ??? HIGHLY NOTABLE RIFFS!!!
i can't imagine how boring your 70% sounds. are they not notable because only two guitar world issues have transcribed vicarious for you? how condescending am i? yeah, i'm a music snob. i think a lot of tool fans are. i don't like it... but i get off on it.
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Last edited by iAMtheMA!; 08-09-2011 at 08:19 PM..
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08-10-2011, 03:30 AM
Saying that a riff is "Recycled" is redundant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
how about all the times they land on straight open drop-d (D5) for all of their punching downbeats? flood jambi h stinkfist third eye the grudge all over the place.
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I mean really? To me that's just like someone on a Bruce Springsteen forum saying, "Bruce used G in this song and then went to C before coming back to G via D, clearly he's just ripping himself off". Dear fuck, there's more to music than chord progression and riffs. What about the feel? The theme? How the song fits in to the rest of the album or the rest of the bands work? If all you hear when you listen to music is riffs then I feel sorry for you. What about songs that have no riffs? or can't you hear them? I think Adam is a guitar player who plays what feels good. Sometimes what feels best isn't necessarily the most original thing. But would you rather someone said of your music, "That was great" or "that was...er...original".
By the way that wasn't directed at yourself, just that kind of comment.
A musicians limitations are extremely important to their individual sound. Adam wouldn't sound like Adam if he was more technically proficient or flashy. And so Tool wouldn't sound like Tool. Ever noticed that the most technically brilliant guitar players make the most generic, bullshit music? In many ways I think Adam's limitations stop Tool from turning completely into boring, prog rock wankery.
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08-10-2011, 03:30 AM
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#547
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Re: New Tool Album
Saying that a riff is "Recycled" is redundant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheMA!
how about all the times they land on straight open drop-d (D5) for all of their punching downbeats? flood jambi h stinkfist third eye the grudge all over the place.
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I mean really? To me that's just like someone on a Bruce Springsteen forum saying, "Bruce used G in this song and then went to C before coming back to G via D, clearly he's just ripping himself off". Dear fuck, there's more to music than chord progression and riffs. What about the feel? The theme? How the song fits in to the rest of the album or the rest of the bands work? If all you hear when you listen to music is riffs then I feel sorry for you. What about songs that have no riffs? or can't you hear them? I think Adam is a guitar player who plays what feels good. Sometimes what feels best isn't necessarily the most original thing. But would you rather someone said of your music, "That was great" or "that was...er...original".
By the way that wasn't directed at yourself, just that kind of comment.
A musicians limitations are extremely important to their individual sound. Adam wouldn't sound like Adam if he was more technically proficient or flashy. And so Tool wouldn't sound like Tool. Ever noticed that the most technically brilliant guitar players make the most generic, bullshit music? In many ways I think Adam's limitations stop Tool from turning completely into boring, prog rock wankery.
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08-10-2011, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
In many ways I think Adam's limitations stop Tool from
turning completely into boring, prog rock wankery.
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+1
I can't stand wanky prog rock/metal like Opeth and Porcupine Tree
08-10-2011, 04:00 AM
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#548
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crows before hoes
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
In many ways I think Adam's limitations stop Tool from
turning completely into boring, prog rock wankery.
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+1
I can't stand wanky prog rock/metal like Opeth and Porcupine Tree
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08-10-2011, 04:08 AM
i was mocking 5th Eye more than anything. you can't feel sorry for me because we're arguing the exact same point. 5th Eye was making a surface level observation/interpretation of what it is to play drop-d in a band called tool, a band that relies much more on its rhythms and microtonal/binauralbeat harmonies rather than submitting to the straight/BORING! traditional/court music theory we see regurgitated everywhere, and so yes ...obviously ...there's gonna be some overlap here and there. but it's surface, and base. yeah, they use a guitar for both tracks!!! WTF?! i mean, there's sooooooooo much more going on there. sooooooo much more than just hammers and pull offs... get the flac files if you must, jesus chriiiiiiiiiiiist...
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08-10-2011, 04:08 AM
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#549
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Re: New Tool Album
i was mocking 5th Eye more than anything. you can't feel sorry for me because we're arguing the exact same point. 5th Eye was making a surface level observation/interpretation of what it is to play drop-d in a band called tool, a band that relies much more on its rhythms and microtonal/binauralbeat harmonies rather than submitting to the straight/BORING! traditional/court music theory we see regurgitated everywhere, and so yes ...obviously ...there's gonna be some overlap here and there. but it's surface, and base. yeah, they use a guitar for both tracks!!! WTF?! i mean, there's sooooooooo much more going on there. sooooooo much more than just hammers and pull offs... get the flac files if you must, jesus chriiiiiiiiiiiist...
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08-10-2011, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
+1
I can't stand wanky prog rock/metal like Opeth and Porcupine Tree
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+1 to THAT statement ...but come on, there's nothing really generic or bullshit about adam's approach. i bet he mods a ton of his pedals and shit ...isn't he good friends with synesthesia inventor vince de franco? let's go, the wizard crickets are descending from the fifth dimension, man.
"...i mean, some people from the punk-rythm valley-side of things were "what are you doing here hang out with people like tool" but hey, they're my friends i mean i don't judge people the way some other people might think i would, and.. it was immediately obvious that even guitar tone alone adam doesn't sound like anybody else. on the kind of ideas he was adding to our songs and even the old dead kennedy songs we played live, they were really out of left field, so much as they're out of some weird field that i've never heard anybody do before, so that was a very very great pleasure to work with adam, and get some of that unique voodoo with the rub-off on everybody was heard the biafra with the melvins stuff so far, the... never breathe what you can't see and [...] cds. so if anybody out there is curious about the... a [...] tool-punk hybrid check 'em out..."
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08-10-2011, 04:17 AM
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#550
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellboy1975
+1
I can't stand wanky prog rock/metal like Opeth and Porcupine Tree
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+1 to THAT statement ...but come on, there's nothing really generic or bullshit about adam's approach. i bet he mods a ton of his pedals and shit ...isn't he good friends with synesthesia inventor vince de franco? let's go, the wizard crickets are descending from the fifth dimension, man.
"...i mean, some people from the punk-rythm valley-side of things were "what are you doing here hang out with people like tool" but hey, they're my friends i mean i don't judge people the way some other people might think i would, and.. it was immediately obvious that even guitar tone alone adam doesn't sound like anybody else. on the kind of ideas he was adding to our songs and even the old dead kennedy songs we played live, they were really out of left field, so much as they're out of some weird field that i've never heard anybody do before, so that was a very very great pleasure to work with adam, and get some of that unique voodoo with the rub-off on everybody was heard the biafra with the melvins stuff so far, the... never breathe what you can't see and [...] cds. so if anybody out there is curious about the... a [...] tool-punk hybrid check 'em out..."
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08-10-2011, 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
By the way that wasn't directed at yourself, just that kind of comment.
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.
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In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
08-10-2011, 04:21 AM
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#551
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveboat Captain
By the way that wasn't directed at yourself, just that kind of comment.
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.
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In my spare time I like to fart in elevators. It's wrong on so many levels.
I avoid cliches like the plague.
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08-10-2011, 04:32 AM
what? yeah, i saw that. i was also just doing it for "that kind of comment". i simply had more to say on the matter - not that it needed to be said, but i'm pancake n'bakin' here so... (i.e. also not directed at you ...although if you haven't tried, the flac files ARE a delicious treat - highly recommundo)
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08-10-2011, 04:32 AM
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#552
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Re: New Tool Album
what? yeah, i saw that. i was also just doing it for "that kind of comment". i simply had more to say on the matter - not that it needed to be said, but i'm pancake n'bakin' here so... (i.e. also not directed at you ...although if you haven't tried, the flac files ARE a delicious treat - highly recommundo)
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08-10-2011, 04:53 AM
sure is butthurt in here
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08-10-2011, 04:53 AM
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#553
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Re: New Tool Album
sure is butthurt in here
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08-10-2011, 05:41 AM
yeah butt you watched
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08-10-2011, 05:41 AM
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#554
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Re: New Tool Album
yeah butt you watched
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08-10-2011, 02:02 PM
....high-five sir
I wish I could see 10,000 Days as you do, truly. Lucky you.
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08-10-2011, 02:02 PM
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#555
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Re: New Tool Album
....high-five sir
I wish I could see 10,000 Days as you do, truly. Lucky you.
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08-10-2011, 08:18 PM
I don't hear any 'riffs taken from__' ...just similarities.
08-10-2011, 08:18 PM
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#556
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Re: New Tool Album
I don't hear any 'riffs taken from__' ...just similarities.
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12-01-2011, 01:20 PM
So, it seems that they are cautiously hinting at some activity in the recent news letter. I definitely look forward to hearing whatever it is they get together.
For a while, we hovered that 5 year mark at which I have come to expect Tool albums. That, combined with the gossip about recording and albums that have been put out on the internet over the past year, kind of made me eager to see something new. At this point, however, I no longer feel like there could be big news any day now, and I'm much less concerned with when the album will come out.
Last edited by Neel; 12-01-2011 at 01:22 PM..
12-01-2011, 01:20 PM
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#557
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Just chillin
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Re: New Tool Album
So, it seems that they are cautiously hinting at some activity in the recent news letter. I definitely look forward to hearing whatever it is they get together.
For a while, we hovered that 5 year mark at which I have come to expect Tool albums. That, combined with the gossip about recording and albums that have been put out on the internet over the past year, kind of made me eager to see something new. At this point, however, I no longer feel like there could be big news any day now, and I'm much less concerned with when the album will come out.
Last edited by Neel; 12-01-2011 at 01:22 PM..
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12-01-2011, 02:45 PM
I think they're going to pull a Radiohead and announce it very shortly before release. They have the clout to pull it off.
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12-01-2011, 02:45 PM
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#558
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Re: New Tool Album
I think they're going to pull a Radiohead and announce it very shortly before release. They have the clout to pull it off.
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12-01-2011, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underalus
I think they're going to pull a Radiohead and announce it very shortly before release. They have the clout to pull it off.
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I mentioned that a while back. A band like them, and the age of immediacy, they don't need to promote the album several months beforehand for it to sell well.
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12-01-2011, 02:57 PM
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#559
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Watch the Weather Change
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Re: New Tool Album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underalus
I think they're going to pull a Radiohead and announce it very shortly before release. They have the clout to pull it off.
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I mentioned that a while back. A band like them, and the age of immediacy, they don't need to promote the album several months beforehand for it to sell well.
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12-01-2011, 03:19 PM
I wouldn't get too excited. The recording discussed in the latest newsletter is Volto! not Tool...
12-01-2011, 03:19 PM
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#560
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crows before hoes
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Re: New Tool Album
I wouldn't get too excited. The recording discussed in the latest newsletter is Volto! not Tool...
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