junior

I don't know exactly who did it first, but it certainly dates back to a time when Justin was still in short-pants.
I know Blue Oyster Cult, the Who and others were already going full swing with lasers in the mid-70s.

For whatever it's worth, this is my take on where the state of Tool live production is at (slightly abridged version):

Although I really liked the immediacy of the smaller shows that Tool were doing in the Aenima days, they're no longer playing those size venues. Minimalistic lighting is much more effective when no-one in the audience is further than 50 or 100' from the stage. With the larger venues, you are now faced with a large open area that is hard to fill. Subtlety doesn't reach out to section 310 row ZZZ.
What we've been aiming to do since the Lateralus tour is to include the unused space in a way that will help make the "cheap seats" feel like they aren't just observing some show that's happening "way over there".
The shows in the 2nd half of 2002 were the ones where we really started to explore this. The idea was to keep the lighting moving forward throughout the show until the space was filled and the whole audience was involved. The lighting started somewhat minimal over the stage. By the time we got to the interlude/intro to "Stinkfist" (Jacobs Ladder noises), the fiber optics came to life over the barricade and then the lights on the truss over the pit came into use for the first time in the show. The downbeats of "Stinkfist" had a slight reaching out effect. Lighting progressively got more active leading up to the middle section of "Schism" when they all reached out in a big way to light the crowd in yellows and reds (this is the part of the "Schism" video where the little guy is inside the "host" body). As the show moves along the lights get more active. When it gets to "Disposition/Reflection/Triad", the lights out in the center of the venue (above where I am during the show), start to join in ultimately leading to "Lateralus" which is when the big mirror ball came into play for "black and white" and "red and yellow", as well as the search lights from the floor.

Cut to 2006. Some similar structural ideas as far as building throughout the show, but the main item was the video on the stage floor. Not much of an effect for the people on the floor, but the people up in the seats get an added bonus. An attempt to level the playing field for the attendees. The people on the floor have the advantage of being closer and more connected in that way, whereas the people up in the seats now get their own connection and are no longer left out.
This brings me to the lasers. I had thought that lasers would fit in to the "Lateralus" tour but they didn't make the final cut for a few reasons that I won't get into. The idea with them (in relation to Tool at least) is to extend the reach of the show, rather than just be a whiz-bang "look at the lasers" kind of effect. I'm sure it didn't affect everyone that way, but that was the intent. There is always the danger of lasers (or any production element for that matter) coming off as cheese-ball, but we made a really conscious effort to try to keep that from happening.

So, as long as Tool are still playing large venues, I think we are stuck with doing the shows on a larger scale. Based on the start of the last 2 album cycles, I would say that we are likely to see a "warm-up" tour at the start of any consecutive tours that will always be a bit of a throwback to the olden-days, and hopefully those that prefer that style will be able to get something from that before it potentially goes into arenas and turns full scale.

musicmansf

And they can play The Grudge, and Opiate, and Third Eye...and I'll keep doing drugs...it'll be awesome! I mean, if I had to sing the songs I made 8 years ago and the meaning behind them, they would be so lame in retrospect of present tense, but they are sooooooo gooooooooooooood. Cool insight on the stage show though. I really appreciate hearing about how it all works in the grand scheme. When I somehow manage to whore myself out to the music industry in some odd sort of modernity (All songs about destroying the Jonas Brothers in a rash sort of metal?) and I kidnap a drummer and lock him to a drumset, I'll come back to these things. In the meantime, I'll be making love to my new Mesa 2x12. Thank you Justin for getting me hooked on 12's!

deturm

Hey Junior, thank you very very much for stopping by all the time and sharing all of this stuff with us. I absolutely love reading all of the "behind the scenes" type info you give us, it's greatly appreciated! I have a quick question for you though, I recently moved down here to Tampa, FL from Detroit, and I've been looking through Toolshed's tour dates and reviews and it seems like some of the tours has passed up Florida, or the Southeast as a whole a couple times. The warm-up tour in 2006 didn't come anywhere near the southeast, same thing with the first big arena tour in the Fall of 2006. Is there any specific reason that they passed up such a big area? I'll be pretty disappointed if they head out on tour and don't have any dates near me.

Maz46&2

They did tour relatively extensively in your region in 2007.

5 shows in Florida alone.

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aevasquez

2nd Puscifer show added to L.A. area!!!

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MFF0RD6

nevermind

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junior

I don't know the exact reasons for those times, I guess that would be a question for the booking agent.
It could have been that the regional promotors for Florida weren't coming to terms, or that the venues of choice weren't available, or that past history wasn't good. I have no idea, really.
It does seem like they more than made up for that in 2007, as Maz pointed out. I'm guessing the long-term goal was to get there eventually (2007) but it just didn't fit in to the first round (2006). Most of the 2007 tour was places that got missed in 2006, if I remember correctly.

Maz46&2

Yeah, plus the south got the most "Pushit" so it was worth the wait.

__________________
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banned

that was better than any tool newsletter i ever read.
i just hope on the small shows, you guys turn the volume
down from 11 to 10. Paramount in Oakland, upstairs...11 doesn't work.

junior

New promo clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2tFcyGjSKs

junior

I only wish I had some sort of control over that, but alas ... I do not.

Now imagine being exposed to those levels night after night.
(yes, i know not everyone would see that as a negative).

theamazingtool

totally fucking lame.

Jicks

I can fully attest to this. On the second leg of the 10,000 days tour I had to lie myself out of work to make it down to the Tucson Convention Center Arena to get tickets the day of the show. I got to the box office and received the very last two tickets available for the show. (for the record I about shit myself I was so happy). However the last two seats were seats that were at the very last row. They were originally reserved for wheel chairs, but since they were not used for wc's they put fold out seats there. I was kinda bummed they were not better, but I was just happy enough that I got in.

Well the good news was that the seats were dead center. I figured it could have been worse, and I was absolutely correct, I doubt that there were many seats better than mine. Sitting in the back row, there was the full stage effect, and the full visuals of the lasers extending all the way to the back of the arena. On top of that there was another laser mounted at the back of the standing room where the sound booth was. It was absolutely incredible. I think the show could have only been better if I was about ten rows further down where I didn't have a lot of people walking by me and disrupting my concentration on the show.

But Junior is spot on, with the way it was set up, I did not feel in any way that I was not right in the middle of the show, like I have at past concerts.

That was the best show I have ever been to.

On a second note, this was something that was really very cool about that particular show, specifically where Junior said I had a dream a few weeks prior to the concert about going to a Tool show, and it was the most massive crowd I had ever seen. It was so big it took place in a valley with somewhat rolling hills that surrounded it, so that when everyone was packed in waiting for the show to start you couldn't see the ground it was just a stage at the bottom of these hills completely covered by people, and all you could see were heads. So packed that people were falling and rolling down the hills like an avalanche. In my dream it was just an awesome sight. Anyways to the meat of the story, while Tool was playing there was a specific part in the show where the sky was just blood red, and the redness was cast down upon the crowd, in one of the most eerie sights. For some reason that part of the dream stuck with me. Fastforward a few weeks to the actual real life show, there came a part where the lights went dark and red light flooded over the whole audience, and it was almost an exact replica of the vision I had in my dream. That was just an awesome feeling, I wouldn't really know how else to describe it. However, I figured you Tool heads might find that interesting.

Thanks again Junior, I'm sure you can go ahead and keep rambling to us about the intricacies of your lighting gig, we are all fascinated by it.

frosty nugs

well junior, just out of curiosity, what is your opinion about the lighting in p.u.l.s.e.?

tool's last tour, especially mid 2007 onward, was downright mind blowing as far as lighting goes. i hadn't seen a group put on such a show since pulse. i can't wait to see what you guys whip up next time tool tours. what you put together really did a good job in immersing me into the music without it being distracting at all. now if they can only crank maynard's mic up a notch or two...

keep it up man.

junior

Pink Floyd has always been one of my inspirations, along with Rush. I'd say those are my top 2 from back when I was young and impressionable. Pink Floyd's Lighting Designer is Marc Brickman, and for Rush it is Howard Ungerleider. It's safe to say that from the start I wanted to be either, or both, of those guys. I finally met Marc last year at a rehearsal for the Roger Waters Coachella show, and have now known Howard for about 8 years. We used his company (PDI) for the lasers on the Tool tour.

I liked the stuff in "p.u.l.s.e", but I liked the "Delicate Sound of Thunder" a little more, for some reason. It may be because "DSOT" was shot on film and "p.u.l.s.e" was shot on video (I didn't see either of them in person), but "p.u.l.s.e" felt harsh and overblown at times. I remember buying the Earl's Court "p.u.l.s.e" show on Pay Per View back in 1994, and then the CD of it with the blinking LED. A couple of years ago I bought the DVD of it.
Another big difference between the two videos is that "DSOT" was mostly shot specifically for a home video without the crowd (all of the close-up shots) and as far as I know "p.u.l.s.e" was a true live show cut straight to tape.
My lighting crew chief on the "Lateralus" tour and the 2006 shows for "10,000 Days" was on the Pink Floyd lighting crew for both of those shoots, and as an inside joke we named the 3 lighting rings "Roger", "Syd", and "David". The center one was "Syd", and in all of the positions that we recorded in the motor computer "Syd" (the middle one) was always higher than "Roger" and "David". "Syd" was sometimes equal height to them, but never lower, at least. "Roger" was over Adam, and "David" was over Justin. We didn't want to directly subject them to their counterparts, plus Roger starts with an "R" ("Stage Right").

Anyway, as I was honing my foundations as a lighting director and programmer during the late 80's and early 90's, I was (and still am) impressed by the effects they were able to pull off on those Pink Floyd tours. Multi step sequences which can now be done with effects engines (basically wave generators) and complex macro-ing were not yet available when those tours were programmed, so it all had to be hand coded. For example, a wave of colour across a number of lights had to be programmed one step at a time (animated, if you will). It's a lot easier now, and there are still some programmers that insist on doing it the old way (it CAN produce a better result in some cases), although many lighting programmers working today never had to do it that way. I'm in the middle somewhere. I'll try to get the result the "new way" first, and revert to the "old way" if I'm not getting what I want out of it. It almost always takes a LOT longer to do it the "old way", but sometimes it's worth it.

I think a lot of my inspiration for overall "vibe", or tone, came from what I saw of Pink Floyd, whereas my flair for accents came from Rush. I'd never hold what I do up directly against either of those. Inspiration comes from everywhere, and there's no point in denying any of it. In the spirit of "Lateralus", it's all about taking what you've seen and processing it and making something (hopefully) more of it.

Speaking of inspiration, I'm still processing the Volto! show I got home from an hour ago. The lighting wasn't even on my radar, but the musicianship in that band is astounding.
It's now 5am and time to get some sleep.

Maz46&2

I'd say the most notable homage to Pink Floyd (in terms of lighting) would be the lasers during "Vicarious" and then "Ænema". They were very similar to how Pink Floyd used them back on the "Momentary Lapse of Reason" tour for "One Slip" and then into "Run Like Hell". I still like how you're able to do this without making it look too flashy or 'over the top'. Everything was done just right so that the lasers were cool but didn't detract from the music.

What other Tool songs do you think would work with lasers? And to go further, what is your criteria for a "laser song"?

__________________
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frosty nugs

i always thought i noticed their inspiration in your work. the main differences i'd say i notice between you and marc is that he tends to use a lot more movement in his shows, wheras you use movement of the lights only in specific instances ("reaching up and reaching out"... as the lights pan out to the crowd), plus I haven't seen you use as many of the effects you mention being programmed by wave generators as much (like what you see in run like hell on pulse, with the rotating lights forming intricate patterns as they spin). you seem to be more about setting a scene, and letting the lights and lasers flash along with the music rather than always having them moving (of course, i'm having to base this on what i've seen you do with tool). in both cases, it makes for a great show. i like both styles. each suits their act's musical style nicely. i also like the rotating lights from all around the arena that you use in the intro to lateralus. it really adds a lot to that initial build-up before the song really kicks in. some of the things you'd do during the segues were also damn trippy.

i heard the lighting in pulse was midi triggered by the instruments themselves. do you use this as well for tool? also, have you ever worked with props like the giant morphing mirror ball thing in pulse? i'm not saying you should bust one of those out at the next tool show (just wouldn't fit in), but i was just curious if you've experimented with such things and what your opinion on them was.

though i know nothing about it, concert lighting has always fascinated me so getting to talk to one of my favorite lighting designers has been a real pleasure. thanks!

p.s., sorry about any typos, i'm typing with a broken hand. punched a dude that tried to beat up on my sister just a little too hard...

junior

I don't know if I have an exacting criteria for which songs fit lasers. There would have to be something in the song that made me feel "lasers" for it. I can't really describe it. Also, Adam would have to feel it, too. And, it would have to be at a place in the setlist that worked for the show.

There are definitely limited things that lasers can do. I think our laser guy, Scott, squeezed some pretty cool effects out of them, considering.
Their main effects are generally in 2 categories: beam effects and scan effects.
Beam effects are when there are single beams shooting all over the place (ending of "Aenema", and then later "Vicarious"). Beam effects are also the foundation of any stationary geometric frame shapes (end of "10,000 Days").
Scan effects can be seen in "Wings/10,000 Days" when the lasers make waves and fans and other "flexible" and "solid" geometric shapes, or anything that appears to move or sway.

We wanted to fit them in to "Rosetta Stoned" and possibly "Right in Two" and I know Scott had some ideas for a few other songs, but we felt it was too early in the show for lasers, and we really liked the idea of "Wings" being the debut point for them.

As for other songs that I think lasers would fit into, I'd originally envisioned them for "Disposition/Reflection/Triad" in 2002, specifically scan effects during "Dispostion" and "Reflection" and possibly beam effects for "Triad". Lasers didn't make it into the plan that year, so instead I did lighting effects that felt "lasery" to me.

I haven't put a lot of thought into older songs that would work with lasers. I saw a "Laserpalooza" at the Minneapolis Plane_arium in 1997 (or so) that included "Sober"...

"46&2", "Pushit", and "Eulogy" all have sections where they could work. "Parabol/a" has potential, as does "The Grudge". I don't know.

junior

We don't do any triggering such as that. The video department was playing around with a sound feed from the kick drum at one point, but I don't think it was ever fully implemented. I know we've been planning to have some interactive connections from the band, but just haven't found anything we like yet.
There's no click track or metronome with Tool, so all of the visual production has been done by hand since day one. Lighting and video have some timed loop effects, but everything is triggered by a finger pushing a button or moving a fader. Although it might be viewed as limiting what we can achieve, I think it adds a human element that a lot of big shows just don't have. It allows for last second inspiration. Although the shows were pretty consistent, no 2 were ever exactly the same.

The giant Lotus Flower mirror ball that Pink Floyd used was one of our inspirations for trying to expand the production beyond the stage (as I talked about in a previous post [#5004]). In our own little way we tried to capture the spirit of it in 2002 with our mirror ball and lights out in the crowd. We weren't trying to directly replicate it (I think the PF Lotus ball cost as much as our whole lighting rig), but it was meant to achieve the same goal: inclusion.
Pink Floyd have had that kind of element for a long time, and few other bands seem to pick up on it or be interested in including it. The flying pig was an inclusive element, as were the hammer banners hanging around the auditorium on the "Wall" tour. The flying bed. They've had a lot of those things.

oceanminded050

Junior, I have to say that my favorite lighting effect at your shows with Tool was the projection on the stage. I loved the television static effect and the flames effect! You're very good at what you do.
I love the lighting effects at Porcupine Tree shows as well. I'm not sure who does their lights or if you are familiar with that band. If you have the time, check them out!

frosty nugs

many thanks for being so informative. i can't wait to see what you guys put together next time around (hopefully sooner than later? fingers crossed!)... especially the types of things you do for "inclusion". i know i felt damn well "included" the first time i saw the 10k days tour (may 25, 2007, p'cola civic center)... those damn lasers really complimented my hallucinations nicely! i saw you again that november in new orleans, and was pleasantly surprised to see the light show had evolved even further than the last time i saw it. shame the set list was pretty much identical, though i can sort of understand why (making sure everyone gets the same experience, and also allowing you to program more elaborate effects without switching up set lists every night).

i also respect your "by hand" approach to lighting. while some of the bootlegs i saw on youtube during the 06 tour had lighting that would fall out of sync from time to time, the 2 times i caught the tour it was dead on the entire time.

now if they'd only release a video of their shows... i gave adam some ideas a while back that might fit their style better. i know i saw maynard in an interview a while back talking about how he didn't like concert videos becuase the sweeping camera crane pans and frequent angle changes didn't replicate the feel of the show, and he also said that if we could buy it on video, we wouldn't go. while i feel that second part is bullshit (after seeing pulse, i spent the next 10 years wishing PF would tour again so i could see it in person, until Rick died... R.I.P.), i think the first part could be achieved by placing stationary cameras around the auditorium, and before the video starts allowing you to pick your "seat". you could also switch seats during the show.

this would require a lot of video (the whole show x the number of angles) being stored on disc, but with a 50GB dual layer blu-ray at 720p i think it could be done. it would also be cool to hear tool mixed in proper 5.1 surround. i think their style would lend itself well to surround.

aevasquez

Anybody here heard of Rodrigo y Gabriela??? If you haven't, I weep for you...

Anyways....I was thinking if Rod y Gab would have the desire to cover Tool, which song would you think be the best one to cover???

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sonnyboy11

Uhh- the one about cho mama??? :D





Just shiattin brutha! You goin to both nights of Puscifer or just one? I have tix for Saturday night's show.

aevasquez

lol nice!!! Whats up man?! Long time no see. As much as I want to go I can't right now...I've been unemployed for a while and have no monideros...which blows. For sure next time.

Anybody want to help me out...I'm a recent college graduate...have reliable transportation and can make a mean Crown and coke. lol

__________________
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junior

I wasn't as directly involved with that effect as much as I am with the lighting. The video aspect of the Tool shows has always been something that I mostly lend an opinion, for lack of a better description.
The projection on the stage was entirely Adam's idea, and the actual execution of the idea was our video operator, Breck.

I don't know much about Porcupine Tree. I've heard the name. I'll try to look into them.

junior

I think the former figured into that a lot more than the latter. I've seen people on here theorize about that, and downright blame the visuals for the set list, but that wasn't it. The consistent setlist certainly did allow us to be more consistent, but we've never really been a consideration that affects that decision.

I haven't seen the exact videos that you speak of, but I am hoping that the audio was out of sync with the video in those clips. My operating style hasn't really changed much from back then, and I thought it was always pretty on it. It's possible that some of the loops weren't timed that well, or maybe I was doing worse than I thought...

I thought the stuff I saw from the 2002 tour footage (last 4 shows) looked good (to me, at least).
I honestly don't know if that will ever get released. The exact reasons for that are shared only inside of a circle that I'm not a part of, so I'll probably never know what's going on with it, either.

I know that all of that is possible. Two examples along that line that I can think of are Metallica's "Cunning Stunts" video where you can choose a band member on some songs and you will get a personalized cut of the show that stays focused on him, and King Crimson's "Deja Vroom" which has a similar feature that also changes the sound mix to make that player more prominent in the center channel. Neither of those are exactly like changing seats, but the technology is similar, and that was done on standard DVDs, so Blu-Ray should be able to pull it off "plus".

frosty nugs

trust me man, it was nothing at all to worry about, just a rare slip only happening once or twice in the whole show. even in pulse they do it, during another brick in the wall when they attempt to flash the lights along with the choir singing "we don't need no education"... they screwed it all up, lol. the videos i saw (i wanna say one was in athens) were definitely not as noticeable as what was on pulse.

that said, when i saw you there wasn't a single mistake both times. i was actually very impressed with how on time all the video, lighting, and lasers was with the music. you do great work man.

another thing i was curious about, being a videographer i was curious what kind of tech they were using to play the videos on the screens and keep it all in sync with the music?

junior

The video was played back from dedicated hard drives that were part of a system that the video operator (Breck) designed and built. It's somewhat related to so-called "media servers" that are quite popular in live production. It's controlled by a lighting console, and cues are written much like they are for lights. He used a separate console from mine, although the same make and model.
It's all broken up into clips which are then started with button presses, so for a simple example a clip might run during a verse and then at the chorus another button press starts the next one. Speed and loops can be adjusted as needed.
The system Breck was using was evolved from a system he had started building in around 1999. He built a custom system that debuted with Tool in 2001. Back then Camella, Adam's wife, was still running the show. Breck built a hard-drive based system that was operated by a MIDI keyboard. The clips were essentially mapped onto piano keys and she played them back by pressing and holding them down. Sort of a video sampler. Some keys changed the direction or speed, and others added effects. Camella stopped touring as the operator in 2002, and turned the role over to Breck. Coming from a lighting background, he was more comfortable with a lighting console for control, and also felt he could make it more capable in doing so. At that point he developed the current system, which has seen some improvements over time, but is still relatively the same.
Most of what he has going on tech-wise is proprietary, so I can't divulge the exact components of one of his systems.

frosty nugs

that's awesome! what about on the software end, did he code his own setup or is there something used that is available elsewhere?

junior

The original software was based off of some pre-existing modules, although heavily manipulated.
The current software is integrated into his own proprietary device, and was written and built from the ground up. I can't really divulge much more than that, though.

frosty nugs

i don't expect you to, and thanks for telling me what you have. it's inspired me to work on my own setup, as i've always wanted to experiment with such things.

jwb

Holy cow, nothing going on here. Hope everyone is doing well.

Saw over on Fourth Eye that Adam is finishing up 'The Pot' video. Not sure what to think about that. And Meats has a "big" meeting with TOOL coming up, hopefully that'll produce something worth yapping about.

Alright, back to basketball...

oceanminded050

Yeah, I read that article in the new Guitar World with Adam Jones. He said he has been 'lazy' and hasn't taken the time to finish the Pot video.

On the new album, he jokingly said "it's coming along," but pointed out that him, Justin, and Danny have been piecing together some riffs for the new album. And we all know that 'nard is busy with his pussyfer. So if history means anything at all, we have maybe 1.5-2 years to wait for another album, which sucks. I don't know about ya'll but I'm having some withdrawal. Does anyone have some good recommendations for other prog rock bands? I've gotten into Porcupine Tree, Opeth, and Agaloch lately. Any other suggestions would be helpful.

MFF0RD6

tool @ lolla this year (?)

link: http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...eadliners.html

will they have any new music by then?

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influenced

tool headlining lollapalooza. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...eadliners.html

Care to comment/confirm Junior?

link#2

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...,6438758.story

influenced

if this was a race you would have won.

jwb

Shit, I'm not a big fan of these big-ass festivals, but I guess I'm heading to Chicago this summer...

influenced

see you here!

jwb

Junior ~
Hypothetically speaking, of course. If one wanted to catch a progressive/metal show this summer from a popular LA-based band and was on a limited budget, would you recommend throwing down big $ on tickets, airfare, hotel, etc. on a famous festival taking place in Illinois founded in the early 90's by the leader of the freak revolution? Or would you recommend waiting for further announcements from a certain band's website concerning other possible performances that may or may not require one to wade through a sea of patchouli and indie rock, in order to hear the sweet sounds of aloke dutta-inspired tabla magic mixed with tuned down D strings?