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05-07-2006, 06:08 PM
A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Eulogy
This songs suggests that Maynard is mocking Christ, telling him to "get off his fucking cross," since "not all martyrs see divinity." It proposes the idea that MJK denies the sacrifice of Christ as a payment for the sins of man, and more for his own sin of teaching lies.
Jimmy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy
What was it like to see
The face of your own stability
Suddenly look away
Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?
Eleven and she was gone.
Eleven is when we waved good-bye.
Eleven is standing still,
Waiting for me to free him
By coming home.
Moving me with a sound.
Opening me within a gesture.
Drawing me down and in,
Showing me where it all began,
Eleven.
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Maynard is remembering his mother,his experiences with her and when she had her stroke. The mother, for most children, is God; the mother is their protector, their stability.
Judith
Maynard is angry at his mother's continued devotion to "her God, her Christ," because he let her have a stroke even though she believed, trusted, and devoted her life to him.
The Grudge
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grudge
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
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"Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end." I believe this means that Maynard is telling himself to not lose hold of his former beliefs, otherwise everything he has convinced himself about God not existing would fall apart, making him start anew. He wants to be right about the lack of existance of a God, but he is also terrified of the possibility of him being wrong.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grudge
Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
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MJK wears his grudge against God on him every day of his life, as if it was his life. He is "desperate to control" everything that happens, because he wants to believe that he is the only one in control of his life. He is "unable to forgive" God for what he did to his mother, so he continues to be stubborn and devoted to his beliefs at that time.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 'The Grudge"
Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or
Drags you down like a stone
To consume you till you choose to let this go.
Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone.
Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
Let go.
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In this verse, I believe that MJK is finally beginning to let his anger and hatred towards God be dissolved, and to start letting it go.
Coincidentally, the orbit of Saturn is roughly 10,000 days(1). Now on to TOOL's most recent album.
In Wings (1/2), Maynard is past being angry at God, and is letting his mother go without giving her trouble for believing something he thinks is a lie. He is surrounded by people (ignorant fibbers) that claim to be of faith, who fake trials and tribulations to seem more faithful, and is angered because they are nothing compared to his mother. He wants his mother, should she see God after her death, to finally recieve what he thinks she should be given for being such a devout Christian; her wings.
He lets his anger towards God and his grieving for his mother come to a rest with 10,000 days.
(1) 10,000 Days applies to many things. First, and foremost, it applies to the twenty-seven years that Judith Marie Keenan (MJK's mother, and actually MJK is James Maynard Keenan, so they have the same initials.) endured while being paralyzed and broken from her stroke whe Maynard was eleven. Second, it applies, roughly, to the length of Saturn's orbit around the sun. I think that when MJK was eleven, he first started hating God for what he did to his mother, and when he mentions Saturn in The Grudge (written 27 years after his mother's stroke?), he is letting his anger towards God come to a rest.
Any thoughts, speculations, or corrections?
Last edited by troutp; 05-07-2006 at 09:17 PM..
05-07-2006, 06:08 PM
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#1
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mental Tranquility
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Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Eulogy
This songs suggests that Maynard is mocking Christ, telling him to "get off his fucking cross," since "not all martyrs see divinity." It proposes the idea that MJK denies the sacrifice of Christ as a payment for the sins of man, and more for his own sin of teaching lies.
Jimmy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy
What was it like to see
The face of your own stability
Suddenly look away
Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?
Eleven and she was gone.
Eleven is when we waved good-bye.
Eleven is standing still,
Waiting for me to free him
By coming home.
Moving me with a sound.
Opening me within a gesture.
Drawing me down and in,
Showing me where it all began,
Eleven.
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Maynard is remembering his mother,his experiences with her and when she had her stroke. The mother, for most children, is God; the mother is their protector, their stability.
Judith
Maynard is angry at his mother's continued devotion to "her God, her Christ," because he let her have a stroke even though she believed, trusted, and devoted her life to him.
The Grudge
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Grudge
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
|
"Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end." I believe this means that Maynard is telling himself to not lose hold of his former beliefs, otherwise everything he has convinced himself about God not existing would fall apart, making him start anew. He wants to be right about the lack of existance of a God, but he is also terrified of the possibility of him being wrong.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Grudge
Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
|
MJK wears his grudge against God on him every day of his life, as if it was his life. He is "desperate to control" everything that happens, because he wants to believe that he is the only one in control of his life. He is "unable to forgive" God for what he did to his mother, so he continues to be stubborn and devoted to his beliefs at that time.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 'The Grudge"
Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or
Drags you down like a stone
To consume you till you choose to let this go.
Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone.
Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
Let go.
|
In this verse, I believe that MJK is finally beginning to let his anger and hatred towards God be dissolved, and to start letting it go.
Coincidentally, the orbit of Saturn is roughly 10,000 days(1). Now on to TOOL's most recent album.
In Wings (1/2), Maynard is past being angry at God, and is letting his mother go without giving her trouble for believing something he thinks is a lie. He is surrounded by people (ignorant fibbers) that claim to be of faith, who fake trials and tribulations to seem more faithful, and is angered because they are nothing compared to his mother. He wants his mother, should she see God after her death, to finally recieve what he thinks she should be given for being such a devout Christian; her wings.
He lets his anger towards God and his grieving for his mother come to a rest with 10,000 days.
(1) 10,000 Days applies to many things. First, and foremost, it applies to the twenty-seven years that Judith Marie Keenan (MJK's mother, and actually MJK is James Maynard Keenan, so they have the same initials.) endured while being paralyzed and broken from her stroke whe Maynard was eleven. Second, it applies, roughly, to the length of Saturn's orbit around the sun. I think that when MJK was eleven, he first started hating God for what he did to his mother, and when he mentions Saturn in The Grudge (written 27 years after his mother's stroke?), he is letting his anger towards God come to a rest.
Any thoughts, speculations, or corrections?
Last edited by troutp; 05-07-2006 at 09:17 PM..
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I never ever thought about The Grudge like that. Wow. Great post.
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05-07-2006, 07:46 PM
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#2
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Minnesota
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
I never ever thought about The Grudge like that. Wow. Great post.
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05-07-2006, 09:11 PM
I always thought "Eulogy" was about Bill Hicks. But your other observations are very interesting.
__________________
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out. - Bill Hicks
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05-07-2006, 09:11 PM
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#3
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: York, PA
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
I always thought "Eulogy" was about Bill Hicks. But your other observations are very interesting.
__________________
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out. - Bill Hicks
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05-08-2006, 12:49 AM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by prohibitedart
I always thought "Eulogy" was about Bill Hicks. But your other observations are very interesting.
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i find eulogy to be a negative song, based on the lyrics. as tool, especially maynard, were big fans of bill hicks, i doubt he's the subject. i think it's about L. Ron Hubbard, as adam or danny said in an interview, IIRC.
as for the first post, well done, troutp. i think your analysis of the lyrics was pretty spot-on. even if maynard didn't intend it that way, it's a valid interpretation. solid.
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05-08-2006, 12:49 AM
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#4
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Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Quote:
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Originally Posted by prohibitedart
I always thought "Eulogy" was about Bill Hicks. But your other observations are very interesting.
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i find eulogy to be a negative song, based on the lyrics. as tool, especially maynard, were big fans of bill hicks, i doubt he's the subject. i think it's about L. Ron Hubbard, as adam or danny said in an interview, IIRC.
as for the first post, well done, troutp. i think your analysis of the lyrics was pretty spot-on. even if maynard didn't intend it that way, it's a valid interpretation. solid. |
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05-08-2006, 03:39 AM
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#5
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: columbus
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
i like it...
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05-08-2006, 06:48 AM
Interesting take on "The Grudge" and "Eulogy". Never linked them like that.
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05-08-2006, 06:48 AM
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#6
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Interesting take on "The Grudge" and "Eulogy". Never linked them like that.
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05-08-2006, 07:39 AM
Great post. I enjoyed the new interpretation to "The Grudge."
Quote:
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Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
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This, using your interpretation, sounds like MJK is holding on to his denials even though they have left him alone once his mother passed.
Kudos.
__________________
"I was staring at the face of god,
but god wasn't staring back."
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05-08-2006, 07:39 AM
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#7
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Great post. I enjoyed the new interpretation to "The Grudge."
Quote:
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Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
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This, using your interpretation, sounds like MJK is holding on to his denials even though they have left him alone once his mother passed.
Kudos.
__________________
"I was staring at the face of god,
but god wasn't staring back."
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05-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Well, since the final verses of the song are Let Go, Let Go, i'd assume he's letting his denials fade away, but that's just my take on it =P
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05-08-2006, 12:11 PM
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#8
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mental Tranquility
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Well, since the final verses of the song are Let Go, Let Go, i'd assume he's letting his denials fade away, but that's just my take on it =P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by troutp
A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Eulogy
This songs suggests that Maynard is mocking Christ, telling him to "get off his fucking cross," since "not all martyrs see divinity." It proposes the idea that MJK denies the sacrifice of Christ as a payment for the sins of man, and more for his own sin of teaching lies.
Jimmy
Maynard is remembering his mother,his experiences with her and when she had her stroke. The mother, for most children, is God; the mother is their protector, their stability.
Judith
Maynard is angry at his mother's continued devotion to "her God, her Christ," because he let her have a stroke even though she believed, trusted, and devoted her life to him.
The Grudge
"Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end." I believe this means that Maynard is telling himself to not lose hold of his former beliefs, otherwise everything he has convinced himself about God not existing would fall apart, making him start anew. He wants to be right about the lack of existance of a God, but he is also terrified of the possibility of him being wrong.
MJK wears his grudge against God on him every day of his life, as if it was his life. He is "desperate to control" everything that happens, because he wants to believe that he is the only one in control of his life. He is "unable to forgive" God for what he did to his mother, so he continues to be stubborn and devoted to his beliefs at that time.
In this verse, I believe that MJK is finally beginning to let his anger and hatred towards God be dissolved, and to start letting it go.
Coincidentally, the orbit of Saturn is roughly 10,000 days(1). Now on to TOOL's most recent album.
In Wings (1/2), Maynard is past being angry at God, and is letting his mother go without giving her trouble for believing something he thinks is a lie. He is surrounded by people (ignorant fibbers) that claim to be of faith, who fake trials and tribulations to seem more faithful, and is angered because they are nothing compared to his mother. He wants his mother, should she see God after her death, to finally recieve what he thinks she should be given for being such a devout Christian; her wings.
He lets his anger towards God and his grieving for his mother come to a rest with 10,000 days.
(1) 10,000 Days applies to many things. First, and foremost, it applies to the twenty-seven years that Judith Marie Keenan (MJK's mother, and actually MJK is James Maynard Keenan, so they have the same initials.) endured while being paralyzed and broken from her stroke whe Maynard was eleven. Second, it applies, roughly, to the length of Saturn's orbit around the sun. I think that when MJK was eleven, he first started hating God for what he did to his mother, and when he mentions Saturn in The Grudge (written 27 years after his mother's stroke?), he is letting his anger towards God come to a rest.
Any thoughts, speculations, or corrections? |
Just to let you know, Maynard's real name is James Herbert Keenan. This is a good analysis, by the way.
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05-08-2006, 02:58 PM
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#9
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: earth
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Re: Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Quote:
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Originally Posted by troutp
A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Eulogy
This songs suggests that Maynard is mocking Christ, telling him to "get off his fucking cross," since "not all martyrs see divinity." It proposes the idea that MJK denies the sacrifice of Christ as a payment for the sins of man, and more for his own sin of teaching lies.
Jimmy
Maynard is remembering his mother,his experiences with her and when she had her stroke. The mother, for most children, is God; the mother is their protector, their stability.
Judith
Maynard is angry at his mother's continued devotion to "her God, her Christ," because he let her have a stroke even though she believed, trusted, and devoted her life to him.
The Grudge
"Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end." I believe this means that Maynard is telling himself to not lose hold of his former beliefs, otherwise everything he has convinced himself about God not existing would fall apart, making him start anew. He wants to be right about the lack of existance of a God, but he is also terrified of the possibility of him being wrong.
MJK wears his grudge against God on him every day of his life, as if it was his life. He is "desperate to control" everything that happens, because he wants to believe that he is the only one in control of his life. He is "unable to forgive" God for what he did to his mother, so he continues to be stubborn and devoted to his beliefs at that time.
In this verse, I believe that MJK is finally beginning to let his anger and hatred towards God be dissolved, and to start letting it go.
Coincidentally, the orbit of Saturn is roughly 10,000 days(1). Now on to TOOL's most recent album.
In Wings (1/2), Maynard is past being angry at God, and is letting his mother go without giving her trouble for believing something he thinks is a lie. He is surrounded by people (ignorant fibbers) that claim to be of faith, who fake trials and tribulations to seem more faithful, and is angered because they are nothing compared to his mother. He wants his mother, should she see God after her death, to finally recieve what he thinks she should be given for being such a devout Christian; her wings.
He lets his anger towards God and his grieving for his mother come to a rest with 10,000 days.
(1) 10,000 Days applies to many things. First, and foremost, it applies to the twenty-seven years that Judith Marie Keenan (MJK's mother, and actually MJK is James Maynard Keenan, so they have the same initials.) endured while being paralyzed and broken from her stroke whe Maynard was eleven. Second, it applies, roughly, to the length of Saturn's orbit around the sun. I think that when MJK was eleven, he first started hating God for what he did to his mother, and when he mentions Saturn in The Grudge (written 27 years after his mother's stroke?), he is letting his anger towards God come to a rest.
Any thoughts, speculations, or corrections? |
Just to let you know, Maynard's real name is James Herbert Keenan. This is a good analysis, by the way. |
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05-08-2006, 03:20 PM
H has a place in this lineup too, as does I think Jambi.
H is about his past warning him off ever trusting anyone again, but his childlike mind, his 'innocence', 'jimmy' is telling him that if he is open, then good things may come.
Jambi I think is like the sequel to jimmy in that he's saying "I'm so glad I found you (jimmy) and if there were ever a chance I could lose you then I would get rid of everything if it meant I could keep hold of you."
Or something.
__________________
The song is called ænema not Ænima...
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05-08-2006, 03:20 PM
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#10
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
H has a place in this lineup too, as does I think Jambi.
H is about his past warning him off ever trusting anyone again, but his childlike mind, his 'innocence', 'jimmy' is telling him that if he is open, then good things may come.
Jambi I think is like the sequel to jimmy in that he's saying "I'm so glad I found you (jimmy) and if there were ever a chance I could lose you then I would get rid of everything if it meant I could keep hold of you."
Or something.
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The song is called ænema not Ænima...
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Wow. Good job. I'm listening to Jimmy right now with a whole new outlook on it.
Maybe Maynard changed his name to match his mothers initials out of respect?
Great post man.
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05-08-2006, 03:26 PM
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#11
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Wow. Good job. I'm listening to Jimmy right now with a whole new outlook on it.
Maybe Maynard changed his name to match his mothers initials out of respect?
Great post man.
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05-08-2006, 04:12 PM
troutp, great post. so what is the conclusion? where is he now?
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05-08-2006, 04:12 PM
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#12
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a moon full of stars
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
troutp, great post. so what is the conclusion? where is he now?
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05-08-2006, 04:30 PM
I actually have no clue, I'll have to listen to 10,000 days more and see what I can decipher =P
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05-08-2006, 04:30 PM
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#13
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mental Tranquility
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
I actually have no clue, I'll have to listen to 10,000 days more and see what I can decipher =P
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05-08-2006, 04:41 PM
Awesome. Keep us updated.
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05-08-2006, 04:41 PM
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#14
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a moon full of stars
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
Awesome. Keep us updated.
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excellent post, dude. I think Maynard's totally letting his anger to go rest as well. Wings/10000 days is just such a passionate song, I think it shows how much he's been through and how he has finally reconciled with that particular part of his life.
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05-08-2006, 04:56 PM
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#15
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
excellent post, dude. I think Maynard's totally letting his anger to go rest as well. Wings/10000 days is just such a passionate song, I think it shows how much he's been through and how he has finally reconciled with that particular part of his life.
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05-08-2006, 09:46 PM
fantastic post... i'm gonna listen to all of these songs with this in mind and respond...
PeAcE...
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tranquility is found through individuality...
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05-08-2006, 09:46 PM
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#16
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: reddest of red states
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Re: A Lyrical Analysis of Maynard's Experience with His Mother / God
fantastic post... i'm gonna listen to all of these songs with this in mind and respond...
PeAcE...
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tranquility is found through individuality...
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