Yeah religion is cool and all. People just need to know some people can take advantage religion and use it against others.

One day you'll realize that. And that day, you'll be one step closer to growing up.

It is a narrow minded perspective that cannot see any value in another person's beliefs, regardless of whether they agree with them or not.

The difference between who-ever this Reznor guy and Maynard is that Maynard OWNS him. END OF STORY.

+1 for pointless generalizations.

Tool's philosophy regarding organized religion has always been to admonish any system of beliefs that inhibits the spiritual development of any human being. Is it so "beyond the lines of reason" to fathom that maybe Maynard has made peace with the idea of a "Benevolent Son?" It doesn't necessarily mean that he's joined the "Collective Judas." Perhaps after watching his mother, who spent 27 years (almost 10,000 days) with a debilitating illness, remain faithful in the wake of such adversity, Maynard has seen some value in it. Personally, I don't care if the play Gospel, as long as they continue to provoke deep, introspecive thought and FUCKING ROCK, I will choose to listen.

Maynard's views may have changed due to his mother, but I doubt he "found Jesus." Even if he did, he wouldn't be telling anyone through Tool. Adam Jones said in a recent Guitar World interview that Tool's intentions will always be to push their music, not their beliefs and/or personal lives.

Is He missing? :-)

Seriously, I too believe that blind devotion to anything is downright retarded. What a person chooses to believe is their business. My point is, if Maynard did change his views, would it detract from Tool's ability to be a kickass, thought provoking, groundbreaking, unique band? I don't think so.

Exactly, because he wouldn't make a big, public deal out of it. It's his personal life, and he doesn't exactly enjoy his personaly life being exposed.

Rock on, bro!

Maynard > Reznor

WHY THIS THREAD HAS REACHED 5 PAGES I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT'S RIDICULOUS.

Seriously.

this is lame. who cares what they do. the music rocks. the people behind it don't matter. who cares what maynard does. his voice is all that matters. he's on the record. it sounds cool. end of story. when you start going beyond that, you start to lose the true meaning.

God isn't on Maynard's hit list. And that's why Reznor=Win. But seriously folks, I love them both, so let's not fight over who's better huh?

if maynard converted to christianity i would still listen to everything hes made. after all jesus did fulfill multitudes of prophecies from the old testament.

How you used that to suppprt listening to Maynard, I have no idea.

Wings for Marie obviously has a dual purpose, much like Aenema's Eulogy(Bill Hicks and also Jesus Christ). The first part of this purpose is revealed to be the extollation of his mother's unerring belief in Christ and her subsequent virtuous life. Furthermore he relates how his mother's faith strengthened and influenced him to change, "You believed in movements none could see, You believed in me" Judith saw Maynard's spiritual transformation taking place. She believed in him even when he did not, encouraging him in the best and only way possible, prayer; for as all of us fans know, maynard is a man of strong opinion and was once in my opinion quite radical.

With the onset of 10,000 days we see the second theme develop - the juxtaposition of all the phony Christians who espouse faith but do not even know what Christ was really about.
"Listen to the tales and romanticize,
how we follow the path of the hero.
Boast about the day when the rivers overrun,
How we rise to the height of our halo."
Here Maynard is satirizing that we as humans romanticize and fantasize about how we follow the path of THE hero of human history - Jesus Christ. We boast about the final days/judgement/revelations and our salvation; who says we've earned it?

"Listen to the tale as we all rationalize,
our ways into the arms of the savior.
Feigning all the trials and the tribulations,
None of us have actually been there,
Not like you......"
Here Maynard is obviously discussing the capacity of the ego to smooth everything over, rationalizing our salvation, and the essence of self-fulfilling prophesy (What the thinker thinks, the prover proves). We think we've seen it all, and been through the dregs. We've seen nothing yet; we've never been there, not like Him - Jesus, the Hero (throught the 40 days of temptation in the desert, through death and hell itself)

"Ignorant siblings in the congregation,
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me........"
The first line is a parody on the fact that in the church everyone is a brother or sister, and these siblings giver eachother sympathy for hard times. They think we know hard times?!?!?!?! I've been in the position of a leader before and know how it feels to have everyone having their hopes riding on you and how my actions were performed, not for my self, but for my proverbial flock of the time alone. Try carrying everyone's salvation on your back, and know that if you fail, everyone dies NEVER to return. None of us know hard times, none of us know how to resist tempation infinitely, none of us know yet.....

"None of them can even hold a candle up to you,
Blinded by choices these hypocrites won't see.
But enough about the collective Judas, Who could deny
You were the one who illuminated your little piece of the divine?"
None of the congregation siblings even approach Jesus' magnitude. They have so much corruption in this world to choose from thanks to the Prince of Lies. Then the crux revealing implicitly the song's connection to Jesus, "Enough about the collective Judas", the people who live in constant fear and everyday sell their Lord out; Maynard states for ALL to see, who can deny Jesus is THE ONE who brought God to light. He is the one, who beyond the shadow of a doubt, placed all his chips in God's bankroll (forgive the crude expression), and in so doing illuminated the divine for all to see.

"This little light of mine, a gift you passed onto me,
I'm gonna let it shine,
to guide you safely on your way
Your way home..."
Here is where things get tricky. Maynard says he is going to use his light to guide Jesus home. Could it be that Jesus needs our help in his return to this plane? Or better yet, could Jesus be reincarnated already and in need of an awakening. Consider this, the virgin birth of a messiah is a not a theme new to christianity, it was possibly inserted in the bible to give Pagans greater ease in conversion. To further follow this thread, aside from the occult significance of the number 33, why did Jesus need to wait this long to fulfill his mission, why not 25 or even 20 for that matter? Could it be perhaps that he was not prepared until his exact moment, even if this unpreparedness only meant he needed time with his disciples or his family and had no personal inference. It is far too easy to remember Jesus as God and forget he was a man.

"Ohh, what are they gonna do when the lights go down
without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they gonna do when the rivers overrun
other than tremble incessantly?"
Here Maynard espouses the belief, which i share, of Salvation relying just as heavily on the individual as it does on Christs sacrifice. These congregate siblings expect for Jesus to take them by the hand and lead them through enemy territorry during the final times. He states his opinion that they'll not know how to work towards their home because they expect the Lord God to move their body for
them.

"High is the way
but all eyes are upon the ground.
You are the light and the way
They'll only read about"
I'm reminded of a passage, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. -- Matthew 7:13-14. High and narrow is the way to eternal life, and all our eyes are upon the ground, the earth, the material world. Jesus is the light and the way that the siblings will only read about, never to live, to breathe, to die into life knowing.

"Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were my witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one."
Maynard clearly states here, in reiteration of his first them (extollation of his mother, Saint Judith), his mother was his 'witness'. Witness is a term used almost universally in christendom to describe the person and also the process whereby conversion is initiated. Judith, his unconditional mother, gave him evidence of her purity and infinite nature which she obvious to all gains through her faith.

"Look him in the eye and tell him
I never lived a lie, never took a life,
But surely saved one"
Last we have the evidence of what seems to be an implicit conversion of Maynard, so to speak. He tells Judith to tell God, her maker, that she never lived a lie, nor took a life, but that she surely saved one - that of MJK. 'Nuff said

"I only pray heaven lifts you out"

Maynard never makes reference to the thought of religion or God, and the above quote is the closest it comes to that. It's very likely that he's referring to a state of mind here, or something. Maynard and religion are just two polar opposites that should never be associated, especially in a song as beautiful as this one.

someone close this fucking thread.



plz.

qft!

No.

Not to mention that he is also more musically talented then maynard..

What is this guy on about??

The only connection between Maynard and Trent as far as religious ideology goes is that they were both brought up with the Bible. Trent (may have taken until going to Wheaton College and then dropping out); Maynard (his mom... need I elaborate?). Both found issues with those who term themselves "followers of Christ" and have written songs condemning hypocrisy and the misuse of power by "Christians".

Neither have "pulled" anything --- Trent got sober (hence 'With_Teeth') and no longer has long rants about Christianity a la "Heresy", and Maynard has, since "Judith", come to grips with his mother's faith (and I would suggest, wrestles with his own understanding given her "witness" to him).

Can we be done with this INANE and RIDICULOUS thread now?


please?

This song is about Maynrds letting go of his mother, her funeral, her eulogy, what he will say when he speaks to the ghouls, the people at her funeral, how she lived her life, and how she affected his life. Very deep and very sweet and thoughtful.

Maynard grew up in a Baptist family. He knows about The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and he embraces those priciples. This is the reason he feels so strongly about the middle men who use it for personal worldly gains.

We are all sinners, noone is ammune to that, but god knows your heart and your life from the end to the beginning.

As a christian I would like to know is it considered judgemental to imterpret art?

wtf?

I'm a Christian. Most know that here (if they've been around the past year and a half). Yet I'm confused as to what your last question means. Interpreting art isn't inherently judgmental, but what does this have to do with being a Christian?

Also, I think it's a bit ludicrous to say that Maynard "embraces" the Trinity: this song shows as much at the end when he claims: "Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance, [the] burden of proof [is] tossed upon the believers, but you were my witness, my eyes, my evidence - Judith Marie...". He doesn't believe, in fact, he tosses the burden of proof onto those of us who do to show him why anyone should believe. YET, he realizes that his mother did and he is deeply respectful of that.

Other songs which tend to refute your claim on Maynard's "embracing" of the Trinity: Judith (APC), any and all of the Puscifer songs (esp. "Rev. 22:20"), Opiate, 4 Degrees, The Noose (APC), etc.

I'd recommend not suggesting that Maynard "embraces" (which I take to mean "agrees with" or "adheres to") anything to do with Christianity other than the teachings of Jesus which speak of loving thy neighbor. I'd love for Maynard or Trent to understand the revolutionary love of Christ and what it means to bring the kingdom of heaven (the Great Reversal, restoration, utter forgiveness, etc.) to earth, but I'll never claim that either of them have until they say so.

To draw the conclusion from "10,000 Days" that Maynard has found religion is to take a too literal approach to the lyrics. Tool's music has always abounded with reliqious allusions. I do not believe that Maynard has accepted Christianity and "found religion." I think that the songs on this album dedicated to his mother are meant to say that if anyone was ever a true Christian, it was his mother Judith. If anyone deserves wings, it was his mother. If anything, his mothers devotion to a cause that never helped her physical woes was something that Maynard despised. However, I think that the "light" that he says that she passed on to him was an understanding that sometimes it is the act of devotion that is important rather than the actual beliefs. "Jambi" is a song that many believe to be about his struggles with drugs and him stepping into the role of a father. I believe that it was likely his experience with the passing of his mother that opened his eyes to the importance of being a parent. These songs aren't praising God, they are praising Judith Marie.

well said.

I have a bootleg recorded in Houston, Texas on December 12th, 1996. After finishing Merkaba/Sober Maynard says:

"Ever hear of Jesus or Buddha or Krishna or Muhammad? Any of those guys? They have some pretty good ideas. Then their agents... started trying to make money off them and fucked everything up; never trust an agent. This song is about those agents."

and then Tool plays Opiate.

to the OP: what do you expect with this song? apparently Judith was a christian (omg i too didnt capitalize christianity OMG I am soo kewl!) so it would be disrespectful for a 'judith' theme aka "fuck your god!"

While I'm sure that was purely opinionated, I'd like to interject and state for the record that both MJK and Reznor are really good friends and both think each other to be inspirational musicians. The simple fact that you open with "don't flame me" and than start with what has to be one of the most close minded asnine comments I've had the fortune of reading while I lurk on ts is unbelievable.

The keyword in the phrase, "Open to interpretation" is Open And to me, it seems you've come out with a closed interpretation after one or two sittings. You've listened, and wrote down the lyrics and read them on paper and decided it was a bible and turned it away. If you were a Fan of tool simply because of the anti-collective they played in earlier years, then I suppose it is time for you to turn away because all that time, you've missed the entire point of thier music, and the current trend isn't going to stop just because it angered one angst.

Hello Pot. Now get ready because this last part was the peice that angered me so much I finally registered just to point out the one thing nobody else has.

You can't support Tool?

Support them, really? They didn't need your support. They never asked for your support. You're not thier agent. They're not your muse. They're not worried if you end your self proclaimed contract and stop spreading the word. They've done fine for many years without your support. So, perhaps it's time to pull that support out and have it washed, I don't think you know where you stuck it.

Hey genius...you do realize you're bumping a thread that died over a year ago.

Some people are just so bright.

When it is the year 2012 you do realize the Mayan counter starts from zero and the reply made is in the future?

future Inner called and he wants his identity back.

in response to the origonal post...

There is no reason to compare MJK and Trent, as many sad before, however if i would do such "madness" I would only find similarity between the two of them, both of them are gr8 musicians, both of them rebel against higher authorities, no matter it's Bush or any kind of church and it's sheep-like followers, because these are that symbolizing slavery,wars, the dispossesion of our free-will and their narrow-minded followers who had been already tossed in the state of ignorance. Both of them are "fighters" in their own way, and we should thank them for showing a way to open our eyes, and it's the last important thing is "what religion do they follow?" because religion isn't important, belief is what really important. Basicly all religion has the same common denominator which is reaching a new state of our spirituality, no matter it's called heaven or nirvana or anything else. Religion is just a tool, that contains the information to reach our goal and belief is the strength to reach that goal.But I have to agree with that religions aren't perfect, like nothing in our exictence nor in our surroundings, but that's why we have brains... to think.

Few posts ago someone asked why can't we accept that this song is only about a tribute to his mom?
Causes:
1.,It's really odd from MJK to share these personal feelings with the public while he has always been avoiding publicity.
2.,The composition of the album, the tracklist, just think of how the different themes follow each other, starting with an overwhelming problem the aberration of humankind, later on the the tribute? before "Rosetta Stoned" which is likely a confused, but surely not meaningless, LSD trip, then closing the album with "Viginti Tres" (23) and I found these references to it's lyrics:
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858598208/
http://23skidoo.tribe.net/thread/6bf22b22-1c2b-466a-86b5-72ffe59c3a0f
These are the causes.

So all in all, I think it has to be more then a tribute, I mean of course it's a tribute aswell, but it has to be more.
For me this song and the album aswell a Psychedelic experience*.But I don't know surely it's a story of things to come, or he sings about the past, but to me it's a guidance to another place no matter precisely what is that place. But the road is long and we are obstructed by our material world and by our deeds and choices, but we'll have a helper through the long road,who will arrive from the place "home", but only if we are worthy enough by doing the right acts and completing the trials.
That's my opinion of this song.

*=A psychedelic experience is characterized by the perception of aspects of one's mind previously unknown, or by the creative exuberance of the mind liberated from its ordinary restraints.

Obvious an alias.

Actually, I'd be the original Inner, he's an imposter

Exactly. I wrote that for 0.618 because he thought I was getting negative. It was my lame attempt at conveying and old SNL joke.

How r u, bro?