^^^^-everyone else does. - just kidding

i dont know much about trent reznor, but yea why do ppl think you have to be religious to believe in god? your 'beliefs' should be your own, not just what some fat, money making scum priest is telling you.

'would you like to make a donation to the church and help christianity, only $40'-er, fuck you!

chris
x

Musically? Give me a break.

He sings.

Maynard was borned by Judith and went to the army...he's just another human with a point of view...and he's brilliantly talented...
stop viewing him as god...or any divine figure...as by doing that u are already beating the purpose of all the messages Maynard has placed in his lyrics...

and u guys are determining whether he is religious or not? wow,imagine someone doing that to you(u'll get pissed)....no wonder Maynard doesn't want to meet his fans,coz they're a bunch of overanalysing people...

there's nothing good on tv at the moment ^^

mostly 'bout Trent here...

assuming for a moment that there actually is Xtian content on [with_teeth], subliminal or otherwise, i see to possibilities:

first, and far more realistic, that he felt a need to be heard by/had something to say to the masses with this latest effort (see various interviews/statements of his, regarding all the instrumental stuff on The Fragile, and the total lack of instrumental tracks on this one), and as he definitely understands psychology and subliminal messaging, he decided to give himself the best shot possible at getting into the frequently-Xtian heads of those masses.

second, (and please read this with cynical humor in mind) that he actually did convert, and when he "comes to," he'll once again be the angsty Trent we all know writes the best. i still think Downward Spiral is probably his best work...

as a sort of aside, for all of you comparing Trent and Maynard's musical talent and such, first of all i'm really not sure i understand why you're bothering with that comparison. but as far as Maynard only being good with vocals and lyrics, i know i've seen him playing either a headless bass or guitar, at TOOL shows (while singing with a headset mic), and he said in interview (can't recall with whom) that he learned Irish bassoon -for- 13th Step. that shit just plain ain't easy, and yet he plays it quite beautifully both on the album and in concert, i'd say.
Two hugely talented artists. Let's leave it at that.

Do you enjoy Lateralus? Are you familiar with a gentleman named Alex Gray?There's so much spiritual reference on that album I don't know where to begin. Do you enjoy Aenima? Listen to the song 46&2 and research its connection to Buddhism (a religion). Do you like Undertow? Listen to their hit on that album, 'Sober,' its not a middle finger to religion, its a middle finger to people who make money off of religion. In all of the listening I've done I've always disagreed with the popular belief (or, rather the popular DESIRE to believe) that MJK and the rest of the boys in Tool don't believe in divine spirtuality--there's just too much supportive evidence in their music. Bible beaters? Hell no! Believers in a higher entity? Likely. P.S. its good to do a little homework before you go to class.

Okay, I'm not sifting through all of the crap in this thread.

Two things to bear in mind:
1.) There are Biblical/religious references on Undertow and other Tool albums.
2.) Any religious references probably stem from Maynard's past as he was raised Southern Baptist.

Thanks. And turn on, tune in, and drop out for God's sake, all of you.

Have to hand it to you guy, you know how to get shit stirred up and generate posts, as for your statement that you can no longer be a tool/apc supporter because of their religious beliefs seems rather unnecessary, if everyone felt this way it would be a much more divided world than it already is and we should be pushing for peace love and understanding among all people, regardless of what category they fall into. I have the opinion that maynard is much too intelligent to buy in to any of the manmade soul sucking religions, but if i'm wrong, I have no idea what he is going through or coming to terms with or opening up to. Judge not...

Why cant this song just be a tribute to his mom and who she was in her world and what she deserver - such as this tribute? That verse saying

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were the witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one.

For those of you that feel the need to know something about him in such a personal way, isnt this kind of a clue?
Anyway, another note, why compare him to trent as if art is all some kind of contest. WAY too much competition in todays culture. Pressed on young kids in school way above art and culture. Its a shame cause it leads to people saying things like "X is a WAY better musician than X". So do we want to base this on dollars earned, notes sung, records sold, chicks fu$#%@, formal musical training gone through? (that was sarcastic by the way).

Not to shoot down the meaningful and interesting discussion that is in this thread, but it seems to me like that original poster was just trying to get a rise out of everyone with his post - and it seems to have worked.

I kind of thought the same after going back and reading it a few times. Look at this! 4 pages of discussion!

As for the MJK and Reznor talent factor...who the fuck cares? They're both well skilled at their craft, Reznor is a very good instrumentalist, but he can't sing like Maynard (or scream 25 seconds), but Maynard can't do all the things Trent does either....so quit comparing them, it's not even a fair comparison.

You are an ignorant fuck and I hope that you do stop listening to Tool from here on out. Maynard has always had a deeply spiritual/religious message. He's against blind faith and the millions of sheep that follow the organized cash machine known as church, not religion. Please note that there should always be a seperation of the terms church and religion. I don't read the bible, I don't pray, and I sure as hell don't like organized religion, but my own personal beliefs of why we are all here are "MY" religion. Religion should be personalized and not generalized, it's a very personal, spiritual reaction to all of life. Do you mean to tell me that you have absolutely no beliefs? YOUR beliefs are YOUR religion. You are correct that more people have died because of religion than of any other cause, but religion doesn't kill until it becomes organized (catholic, jewish, muslim).

Plays guitar, bass, and piano...but tell you what, you try singing any of their songs, or better yet just try the end to Vicarious.

Plenty of musical talent.

Firstly 46 and 2 refers to Jungian psychology and the self realisation stage of our evolution. just to correct you there is reference to bhuddism in that song. However, on the other, i agree with you entirely. Maynard is a fan Jungian psychology which professes that an understanding of the soul and dream world is essential in understanding human nature. Unfortunately i don't think MJK respects religion, he is exceedingly synical about it. his grief for his mother is outlined in 10000days but the synicism in his lyrics is in no way indicative of respect for religion. To conclude MJK stated that the 10000Days Album would cause a split in the fans between those who wanted to hear angry tool and those who would appreciate the new path tool is taking. I now see that his predictions were correct.

ADMIN,
can we close this absurd thread yet?

Looking back on this i know why Tool didn't reschedule the cancelled show in Wisconsin, it was all because they lost your support. Now go hang your head in shame!

lol

Trent Reznor & James Maynard Keenan = completely different levels

They don't go to believe they go because they believe. And because they believe, they do as he has told them to, and do that, he tells them to do.

yearzero.nin.com

listen to the new album and visit the Alternate Reality Game (ARG) sites and tell me if you think Reznor has become a Christian

They're equally gifted, however they work on two different levels of musicianship. Maynard likes to involve the ideas of his bands and let others write the songs to get a more diverse musical universe for themselves. Reznor just writes it all himself.

You sure about that?

You actually believe that yourself? A Vocalist in one of the most influential Progressive Metal bands E V E R doesn't know how to play a single instrument?

IF you however believe that you have a very screwed up head; Maynard sings because he DOESN'T NEED to play an instrument because the rest of the band handle that department just fine, Maynard provides the lyrics and the charismatic vocals and together they make an excellent band.

Trent: plays more instruments on his recordings

Maynard: has a MUCH larger vocal range (it's not even close)

It's like comparing apple to oranges my friends.

I have seen Maynard play instruments live. Some kind of guitar/electric oboe? during Schism and Disposition/Reflection. i know that's not a lot but but who knows what he can do.

True, but i think it's an important point that Maynard doesn't NEED to tell the band what to play because they are all equal members. Trent IS Nine Inch Nails when it comes to songwriting.

Apples and Oranges.

Agreed.

The only thing they might have in common is that they're both using somewhat "spoken"/"talked" vocals more and more lately, rather than traditional "singing".

Maynard is just a singer? He is a much better vocalist and can do a lot more with his voice than Trent can and his lyrics are much better, atleast to me they are.

They're very different musicians, but they are comparable because some of what they do can be compared.

Trent writes lyrics - Maynard writes lyrics
Trent sings - Maynard sings
Trent actively plays an instrument in his band - Maynard does not actively play an instrument in his band.

That's 2 out of 3, the third one completely overwrites and invalidates them?

Terrible....you have to be kidding me

this is getting ridiculous

the end.

I feel this too. Im not all that interested in debating what the song means to Maynard, to Tool, or to anyone else. I cant offer any truth on that because I don't know it.

But to me, what I feel when listening to this song is an outpouring of pure love and pure respect.

this is what I feel/hear in this song

"You believed this so deeply, so honestly and so truly, It was never lip-service, it was never a mask worn (as it so often is for others), you actually lived what you believed and that itself inspires me, it demands and creates my respect for you. You have given me so much and inspired so much in me, and I honour you. You enlightened me, you loved me, as I loved you, and I don't know how Im going to cope without you. I may not believe all and exactly what you believe, your 'truth' may not be my 'truth' completely, but in my unconditional and pure love for you I absolutely hope that your truth leads you where you need to be, as completely as I hope my truth continues to lead me there too."

That is what it means to ME, everyones life experiences have been different so their perceptions are different, maybe this is what I hear because this is what MY heart has said when I have been in this place

I agree totally, I'm glad someone sees music for what it should be. Additionally, Maynard isn't religous, but he doesn't deny God's existence. This is why he mentions God in certain songs. Just thought I'd pitch in what I think..=)

But to me, what I feel when listening to this song is an outpouring of pure love and pure respect.

this is what I feel/hear in this song

"You believed this so deeply, so honestly and so truly, It was never lip-service, it was never a mask worn (as it so often is for others), you actually lived what you believed and that itself inspires me, it demands and creates my respect for you. You have given me so much and inspired so much in me, and I honour you. You enlightened me, you loved me, as I loved you, and I don't know how Im going to cope without you. I may not believe all and exactly what you believe, your 'truth' may not be my 'truth' completely, but in my unconditional and pure love for you I absolutely hope that your truth leads you where you need to be, as completely as I hope my truth continues to lead me there too."



Dude, I couldn't possibly agree more. THIS is what the song is trying to communicate. It's a very mature way to approach differences with those of which you love and respect. You can argue to no end with random people about religion, but until you have a deeper bond with them, you'll most likely never know why they choose to believe the way they do. It's different for loved ones. Whereas with random people, you can blow them off and pretend it doesn't affect you, if you are close to someone and truly love and care for them then you can't do them the same. You feel the need for resolution and understanding. Confronting this resolution and understanding in death is one of the most profound things humans are capapable of, and it happens to be what 10,000 Days is about.

in response to the origonal post...

I always though "the hand that feeds" is about Reznor suing his ex-manager for "mismanaging" close to 10 million.

Thats the beautiful thing about music though. Perception and interpretation.

also....

Christ had beautiful teachings, so did buddha, so did ghandi, so did MLK, so did...

But that is only my perception.

I took the time to register on this forum; just so I could tell you: I BELIEVE (*snicker*) you absolutely nailed it. Thank you.


I've seen "wings pts. I & II" live on this current tour twice. I consider those to be some of the more inspiring moments of my life.

I personally think the original thread-starter is nothing more than a troll- but you gotta admit, he did make a lot of people think; and that does count for something, right?

Incidentally; I've been a NIN fan since about 1990 as well. Personally, I haven't had any trouble appreciating them each (Reznor & MJK) for who they are.

I'm glad BOTH are still around in this day and age. God (or whoever) knows we need 'em- just look around.

ARE YOU STUPID!? Maynard also plays the keyboard you idiot!

I don't know if hitting one or two keys on a keyboard is playing :P

Thanks!


I have only seen Tool live once on this tour so far. Unfortunately they didn't play Wings or 10,000 days. But they did say they would be back in NZ at the end of the year, and hopefully they hold true to that. They played here twice for lateralus so Im pretty confident they will be back! Im sure when they return here they will play wings. Im planning on taking my daughter with me when they do come back (she was disappointed with me for not taking her in January, but it was a festival and would have been too long a day for her.). She'll be 10 then and it will be her first concert. (although she was with me (inside me)the first time Tool played live in NZ). She loves both wings for maree and 10,000 days but her favorite song on the 10,000 days album is The Pot (lol at my little blonde haired blue eyed pixie screaming along with those lyrics!) so I have my fingers crossed that they will play that song again too!