Well, since it has been difficult finding people to form a band with, I decided I'd just form a band with my four favorite people in the world. Let me introduce you to them.

On lead guitar, I am pleased to present reign3!!

And on backup guitar, please let me welcome reign3!!

On bass, the one...the only...reign3!!

On the keyboard, it is my honor to present reign3!!

And it will be I who will be slapping down the vocals.


Yes, you have guessed correctly. It will be a solo endeavor. What I'd like to do is be able to record onto my computer. But I'm not sure exactly what the best method would be.

This is the recorder I am currently thinking about getting:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/240239/

What I really want to do is be able to record onto my computer and then do some editing. I'm not sure what kind of program to get though.

I've never done anything like this before so any advice would be much appreciated.

For starters, buy a good area mic as well. We use two, and they sound alright, kinda fuzzy though because we just don't have the wattage to scare the fuzz away.

The MR-8 works pretty well, it's what we use (odd how these little things happen), but to fully use any digital recorder, buy Cubasis. It's the only way to go. My personal advice is also buy AcidPRO, and FruityLoops, both are looping programs that work alright.

Do not pirate. Buy the software. And then register it in your name.

Also, good luck. You'll be surprised at how horrible you sound.

Hehe thanks. That's exactly what I was expecting but it still sucks to hear it.

BTW, what is Cubasis? Is it just a different digital recorder?

No, it's a piece of software for the computer.

What we do is we take the recordings in the MR-8, package them into .wav files, and from there take the flash card out and put it into the drummer guy's computer (Olsen's a pretty common last name, so I'll refer to him as that from now on)

From there, we open up Cubasis, and start the fun-filled editing process.

Cubasis acts like a very very expensive recording studio. You can create effects, alter the ones that are there, use known effects in new ways. I dunno about the rest, that's the only stuff we use it for.

Oh and you can use it to make music videos, but we've not tried that yet.

Don't do it! That won't let you record to your computer. It's a standalone digital recorder that records to a 128MB flash card, which is crazy lame. 16-bit/44kHz audio (CD quality) is pretty much 10MB for every 1 minute of stereo data. Say you have an 8-track recording and that leaves you with 1.6 minutes of total recording time. Of course, you probably won't have all 8 of those tracks being stereo, so that increases your time, but I think you get the idea.

So now that you know that's not what you need/want, let's turn to what you do need. Since you're going to be doing this all yourself, I'm assuming you won't need a bunch of inputs to record with, ie, you won't be recording several tracks at once. So that means you could get a 2-input soundcard and do what you need to do. You have many options here, though I'd recommend one of the offerings from M-Audio. I use an Audiophile 2496 which was a huge upgrade from the SB Live I was using previously. The only problem with it is that you need to have some sort of preamp to amplify line or mic signals. I use a Soundcraft mixer as well as a separate Behringer mic pre to handle that. You could go that route (at some point you will definitely want to have a mixer), or just get a mic pre that also handles line inputs (most do), or you could get a soundcard that has a couple built-in mic pres. The M-Audio Audiophile USB and MobilePre USB are both [obviously] USB interfaces and both have two mic pres. There's also the M-Audio Delta 1010LT which offers considerably more expansion (10 in/10 out) in a PCI version, also with two mic pres. I haven't heard the preamps in these products, but if they're anything like M-Audio's other preamps (AudioBuddy and DMP3) then they're probably nice and clean - similar to Mackie VLZ.

After you've got a soundcard you're going to need some software. Here your choices are even more wide open than with the hardware. You're going to need some multi-track software to record and mix with. Options here would include Cubase, Nuendo, Vegas, Acid, Sonar, Cool Edit Pro (now Adobe Audition with a brand spanking new higher price!), etc... If you're wanting to do this on the cheap, then I'd recommend n-Track. It's full featured, comes with plenty of effects, and has support for VSTi and DXi, which you will discover comes in damn handy. I believe they only charge $45 for n-Track, which is huge bargain. You can then load up on freeware VSTi and DXi plugins and extend your sonic possibilities. I'd also recommend picking up a copy of Fruity Loops Express ($49) for making beats and other crazy loopified goodness. Fruity Loops, IMO, is the best value in audio software. You'll also probably want a wave editor, but I can't think of any cheap ones offhand. I use Sound Forge, but it's kind of expensive, unless you have alternate (and less scrupulous) means of acquiring it.

that or another option would be one of the digi recorders that burns to a CD.

The sound card stuff, dunno much about, but should learn, considering that I'm planning to do some solo recording as well, as soon as I get a guitar and learn enough of it.

Reign3, what kind of setups do you have for your instruments?

Cubasis is based on Cubase, which has the highest number of disgruntled users I've ever seen for any piece of software...except perhaps Quark.

Alright alright it's not the only way to go, you've won *dies*

But, I personally recommend it, I like it, at least for editing purposes.

P.S. If we're going to argue, just IM me at deviatedwolf625 (AIM) or [email protected] (MSN) pls, it'd save forum space.

We're arguing?

I thought both people who claimed to be right and were disagreeing was called arguing.

How bout this. If your going to just shoot holes through me, don't waste forum space doin it, it's kinda stupid.

FYI (For everyone else) This is a nonsequitor post from the topic. My apologies.

I'm just offering up a different opinion, and I didn't claim to be right about anything. reign3 can take both opinions into account, and probably others, when making his decision. You've had great experiences with Cubasis - wonderful. I have had bad experiences with Cubase, something reign3 may want to consider. You like the MR-8, great. I hate standalone digital recorders, period. Again, reign3 can take both of our experiences into account. I'm not posting to tear down anything you've said, only to offer my opinion in the hopes that reign3 will ultimately be better equipped to make an informed decision.

Alright, here's the methods I've tried:

Through an SBLive card. Sounds like shit.

MR-8 - Sounds good if I don't screw up and have the volume cranked.

I wouldn't say like shit, but definitely leaves quite a bit to be desired. The headroom isn't there, the fidelity is weak, the converters suck, the MIDI blows chunks, the digital i/o is laughable at best, etc... Anyway, I recorded a few things back in the day with my SB Live, even a vocal track using the SB Live's mic pre (oh the horror), and I think you'd have a hard time picking out which songs had tracks recorded with the SB Live.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you, just kinda clarifying what sucks on the Live.

you can just use your comp mic... that's how i record my stuff, and it doesn't sound bad

granted it is really weak, so i have to crank my amp up real loud, and then amplify the end result in cool edit, but hey... it still sounds pretty good... at least I think so. I think I should record in mono though because the left channel always picks up more signal than the right one does. I could just layer it so it sounds like it's stereo.

www.angelfire.com/hiphop3/holyreality

judge for yourself... it's not digital of course but... well... it's cheap/free....

and look into line6's guitarport... it looks like a piece of shit, but people apparently think it majorly pwns.... it's more of an amp modeling type thing though but you can use it to record to computer... i think
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/.../base_id/58984

the pod, pod pro, and pod pro xt are also allegedly good for programming/effects/modeling etc....... pod pro xt comes with software and a usb thing for recording purposes....
www.line6.com

this stuff really kind of negates the usage of an actual amp though... i've heard mixed stories on how good it sounds if you plug one of these into a normal combo amp who's preamp cannot be bypassed.

then the behringer v-amp is also supposed to be very good as well... not sure whether it can be used for recording purposes though... probably since you can download things to it.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...h/d=tp?q=vamp2

Holy, I had forgotten about the Line6. It seems like a good deal.

Forgive me, because I know little about this type of stuff, but with the Line6 can you record multiple tracks and layer them into one file? That's really what I'm shooting for here. As long as I can record multiple tracks (preferably at least 8), layer them and fit them all into one file on my computer, I'm happy. Well, and I guess editing is a big deal too. I really want to do a lot of editing and fine tweaking to try to make it sound as good as possible. I'm really looking for good sound quality.

That's what I want out of all this. If the Line6 can do that, I think I may seriously consider it seeing as how it is pretty cheap compaired to everything else I've looked at.

If you don't need anything for live use, I'd recommend checking out a few other modelers (J-Station, Digitech, etc..) as well as some software modelers. I use Amplitube, and I happen to think it kicks ass. This song of mine (Loft) has Amplitube on the guitar tracks, just for an example.
Any modeler or software modeler doesn't record anything. You record on either your digital recorder, like that MR-8, or with software on your computer. If you do it on the computer, the software is what allows you to have multiple tracks - as many as you want, depending on your computer's level of performance. Either way, you'll need something to generate your guitar tone, be it a modeler or an amp, and then something to record with.

Whoa, didn't know the PodXT could record.

I do happen to like Line6, I think they make great gear, but it's all incredibly expensive, as a warning. 500$ for the PodXT, and that's about the cheapest they get.

Holy, do you know if the BassPOD has the recording function as well?

Alright now we're getting somewhere. But I still have a few questions. BTW, I really appreciate all the advice and tips.

Say I got the Line6. Now, do I plug into my amp, or does the guitar port act as the amp?

And as for the software, somebody mentioned FruityLoops. MusiciansFriend said that was like an editing program. Now doesn't the line6 come with computer software? What is the use for that?

And I'm not concerned with live sound at all. This is entirely a home studio type deal.

Thanks again.

Another thing I totaly forgot about and could be a problem; I wasn't just going to record guitar. I had also planned on putting down bass tracks, keyboard, vocals and possibly a small amount of percussion. Now, if I were to still use the guitar port, could I get good quality sound and be able to do editing and all that? I only ask because it was less pricey than everything else I looked at. I'm willing to shove out a little dough, but only if it's necessary.

But would it be better if I just used something totaly different? And if so what?

Actually you can get the Line6 GuitarPort for $170 and the regular Pod for $250. Though you could get the J-Station, which I've heard has better distortion sounds than the Pod, for $99.
None of these amp emulators record. The PodXT and GuitarPort both have USB digital output so you can plug into your computer to record, but this is no different than using the analog output to record via your soundcard (aside from the analog/digital differences).
These emulators emulate both the amplifier and the cabinet. There is no signal amplification (ie, no watts), so you could either plug into mixing board attached to a PA (or something like that), or just plug right into your computer's soundcard.
That's kind of misleading. Fruity Loops is a tracker - kind of like a MIDI sequencer where you can load samples into banks and trigger them at various times. It also has effects and supports both VST and DX instruments. Fruity Loops comes in 3 flavors. The top of the line version actually lets you record and edit, but all that shit is new to Fruity. I recommended the basic version of Fruity Loops, which is more like previous versions, and that's what I use to create beats and loops.
I think the Pod come's with Emagic SoundDiver, which is a MIDI editor type of program, which I assume lets you edit Pod settings via your computer, but it doesn't record anything, other than knob settings.
I'm not sure what you're asking here, but I'll whip out an answer anyway. I would recommend checking out the J-Station, merely because it has both guitar and bass emulation in one unit, and it's way cheaper than the Pod. Go here and check it out - they've got some audio samples as well. You could basically use whichever emulator you decide on as a line input preamp for anything, even your keyboard; just select a clean solid state amp, or you could spice it up with something different. For percussion, do you actually have some percussion instruments, or were you planning on programming beats?

Hmm ... advice noted *is learning from this too* However, if I need a preamp anyway, the BassPOD/BassPODxt can both record into the computer?

I'm also wanting to setup a solo recording type setup, but with something a little more professional, i.e. recording mixer I can also use for PA, or a mixer run into a digital recorder.

But, just curious Reign3, what kind of setups do you have for guitar/bass/keyboard?

Man, you guys got my head spinning now.

As for setups, I've really nothing elaborate.

My keyboard is a Yamaha PSR-260

I have an Epiphone Gibson Les Paul

A Squire precission bass

I run both through my little Crate GX-15.

The bass was a gift and I haven't gotten around to getting a real bass amp yet. But the Crate works well, I just don't play it incredibly loud, so I don't blow the speakers out. I'm sure it doesn't sound as great as a real bass amp would, but it's enough just for me to practice and build skill.

What I'm really looking for, is something that will allow me to put down guitar, bass and vocal tracks. Just a simple recorder (preferably at least 8 tracks) which I can transfer onto my computer. After I get all that onto my comp, I want to get some software that will allow me to go through and do some editing and mixing and whatnot.

That's what I'm really looking for. I don't know if this is something that will require multiple components (i.e. guitar port, bass port, whatever) or if there is some way I can get one component to do all of it.

The MR-8 seems to be the type of thing I'm looking for. The guitar port is a nice idea, but like it's name implies GUITARport. I don't want to get a bass AND a guitar port.

I hope that clears things up a bit. I don't want to be confusing you guys. Thanks.

I was going to offer you advice but I see elevate has already been here. Listen to him, he is a genious born from a long line of geniouses.

Dont get a multitrack recorder if you are going to use your computer anyway. Its a waste of money. Just get a soundcard with a couple of inputs so you can record into your computer sequencer, whether it be Cakewalk, Sonar, Cubase, or if you use loop based programs like Fruity Loops with a two track editor like Sound Forge. Save you a lot of money and a kick in the head for being a dumbass (if you bought the Fostex).

okay umm....

I THINK the behringer vamp pro also has bass amp modeling... not sure if it's meant for your guitar (ala adam using bass amps) or for basses though, becuase they also have a vamp pro for bass....

now the pod xts and whatnot, all they do is transfer your signal onto your comp via USB... i'm not sure how good that sounds but I think it should work better than soundcard.....

you can plug them directly into an amp (the behringer can be plugged soley into FX loop, unlike pod I think... which i think pretty much lets you bypass your normal amps preamp) but you can also plug directly in... it may not sound as great though, you'd have to screw with your amps settings....

i'm pretty sure all this stuff is soley geared toward guitar though.....

ummm

really if you want to just strictly record anything... i'd just get some sort of multitrack recorder..... i was just suggesting some sort of amp modeler because they can give you a wide range of sounds for your guitar, and supposedly aren't half bad.....

and i have never tried any of these things minus the regular pod with headphones... it didn't sound too great..... one thing that i wonder about is when you crank an amp (be it solid or tube) it starts sounding better the louder it gets... but i don't think digital modeling would do that... i think the tone would always stay the same, and thus flat.... but maybe they have found a way to simulate better tone or something

Any of these things will let you record direct to your computer. How they're connected is what's different. The regular Pods (bass and guitar) have just analog outputs. The XT and GuitarPort models have USB (the XT has analog output as well). The J-Station has analog and S/PDIF outputs. Also don't confuse 'preamp' with 'mic pre'. I used 'preamp' earlier in reference to a line input, where reign3 could plug his keyboard into the emulator, simply for signal amplification for input into a computer/recorder. If you were to use a mic, you'd need a legit preamp, or mic pre, for that, such as are found on mixers that have XLR inputs (the large round three pronged plug).
What kind of digital recorder are you thinking about using? There are two varieties of digital recorders - one is like the MR-8 mentioned earlier; Roland's VS series is of the same type. The other type is something more along the lines of an ADAT, which is merely the recorder without an interface. For a nice setup, I'd recommend a small Soundcraft mixer (something like this, or preferrably one of these), an M-Audio Delta 1010 (or RME Hammerfall Multiface if you've got the money), and then the software of your choice, be it Cubase, Vegas, Sonar, etc...

This is more so the case with tube amps - as both the preamp and power tubes get further driven, the amount of 'tube-ness' increases, giving you a fuzzier/warmer tone. This is why some companies make what are known as 'power brakes' which go in between your cabinet and amplifier. They essentially soak up a lot of the power so you can crank your amp up without the volume being insanely loud.

The second one (Spirit M series) with 4 inputs is all I'd need, I'm not going quite out on a limb, I'd just be laying down guitar, bass, and vocals; using it to learn when I sound like shit and not; and of course, learning how to use professional gear. The more I know, the better.

Thanks for the advice!

yeah... but what i was saying is that i wonder if these new fangled amp modelers can replicate the correlation between volume going up and tone getting better, or if the tone is gonna sound the same no matter what volume you are at.

I do notice on some solidstate amps, there is a presence knob, supposedly designed to emulate the effect, but at any volume.

well... but it still sounds better with presence, cranked up

i have FDD which is supposed to emulate an overdriven tube amp... I always have it on (why the hell did they even give an FDD switch? the only thing good about having it off is less feedback, but the tone sucks if off), and it does make it sound better... but it still sounds 10x better once the volume gets up to a little past a quarter, regardless of spiffy features that are supposed to emulate the loudness=better tone effect.

I'm thinking that the modelers aren't going to emulate this effect, but I guess it's really up to the modeler, as they're modeling an amp anyway, why not model the increased gain experienced at high volume? But I'm thinking that the sound that they're emulating is the ideal sound, ie, the amp cranked up to a decently high level.
All Marshall and Mesa tube heads have presence knobs as well. I think it's more of an EQ type of effect, like you have low, medium, and high, and presence is like 'ultra-high'...adds kind of a airy sound to it.

Hmm ... something to consider.

I do think that Line6 at least models amps at high volume, I've noticed the distortion is pretty-gainhigh, and sounds a great deal like the marshall's and mesa boogies they are impersonating.

About the soundcard...I'm going to want to record bass, vocals, guitar and keyboard (maybe), will a soundcard allow me to do that? Forgive me, I'm still a bit lost. I'd like to keep this as absolutely simple as possible. Could you maybe point me in the direction of some good soundcards that you'd recomend?

Yes...and no...sort of. You'll need either a preamp, a mixer (with at least one preamp), or a soundcard that has built in preamps. If this is just going to be you by yourself recording, this and this would get you off to a nice start, as far as hardware goes. This mic would be an excellent starter mic which could be used for just about anything. You're going to need some software as well; see one of my earlier posts regarding that.

What are you planning on doing for monitors?

Well, I went to a shop in Portland today that Deviatedwolf recomended and they hooked me up. Here's what I'm looking at, I'm 99% sure this is what they showed me at the store.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...base_id/103189

It's exactly what I was looking for. I can put down guitar, bass, vocals, whatever. It allows me to record onto my computer, it has a pretty decent editing program the guy showed me, and it allows you to create drum tracks. Plus it's only $149.99

Anybody have any thoughts on it?

The guy there also recomended Cubasis, and I may pick that up later.

www.harmony-central.com has user reviews on just about everything...

but umm... that's a preamp... this means that you won't get your amps sound recorded, you'll get this things sound recorded, and it probably won't sound as good as your normal amp.

unless i'm missing something....

Yeah, I know it doesn't allow me to use my amp, but I'm not too worried about that. My amp is nothing special anyway, and besides, this amp has gain on it which is really all the distortion I need. Plus, I'll probably be getting Cubasis later and that has effects too.

Looks good, which is why I recommended it earlier. I'd still opt for seperate soundcard and preamp, but that MobilePre is considerably cheaper.
I anti-recommend Cubasis, for what it's worth.
It's a preamp and a soundcard in one....or I may not understand what you're saying.

What would you recomend in its place?

BTW, I really appreciate all the feedback and advice. It's nice having differing opinions, so I get to see multiple points of view. Also, I appreciate you guys putting up with the fact that I am a total n00b when it comes to this.