Shoot. I'm stupid. I misread that you said a high bassist to guitarist RATIO. I'm down for it I guess, but I can't record anything just yet. It'll be about a week and half before I can record anything.

Hello all, I'm new here...although i've been browsing the forums since their inception, i never found reason to create an account and discuss until i found this particular portion of the boards. anyways, nice to see there are plenty of clever musicians to be found...i play guitar/bass/drums/keyboards, & i do sequencing/mixing too. i'd be more than willing to fill any role needed, minus singing :P

here are some tunes i've already done: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/ei...ctersmusic.htm. mostly ambient/slocore electronica. any comments/criticism/suggestions would be rad...

Ok...
You've lost me in this talk of modes, but I'll tell you what I know, and why I'd claim this is in A Minor. For a start it has no flats or sharps. It's probably a little unusual to use B (it's a C-B minor second interval with an A bass drone) since it's the second note in a standard A minor scale.

I've never heard of B Locrian, and it certainly wasn't my intention to write something in that. I'd like for my theory to be a little more polished than it is, but shit happens. I usually play guitar, but I'd find it a little difficult to play anything which wouldn't be too busy for someone else to utilise. Chances are if a song ever gets together by this method it's going to be very busy and messy. Leaving silence, and pauses is pretty important in most songs and anticipating the mood of a song before the other parts are together is a tough call... anyway

If nothing else, it's interesting to hear your discussions. Humbled in your presence.

In the early nineties a neighbor held up this thick workbook titled "Introduction to Musical Design Vol. I" and said, "If you are serious about being a musician learn this..."

So three times since that day I've opened up the workbook pages, leafed past the introduction (well the 3rd time I actually read it and it was interesting) and jumped right into the interval. Then it went from compund intervals to seconds and seconds to a pitch primitive and then into something I had maybe an idea about...half and whole steps. Then it went to accidentals with sharps, flats and natural signs, majors, minors, diatonic and chromatic halp stes, transpositions...

And then my head began to throb madly so I put the book down. Three times in what...a ten year span. Three throbbing headaches. I think I might actually gain more of the theory if it was hands on and if I could remember more than "every good boy deserves fudge"

There's a few scale books around my place (one in hands reach), one for a 6-stringer and a little pocket scale book for the bass so I can't say I'm shy on the material. Besides places like mxtabs.net or harmonycentral have more than enough info to get anyone started with a will.

Since I get a headache trying to read this book (and I will finish it...someday) I opt for the whole mimicking bit which is practice in itself. I took Pink Floyd's mother and strummed out the rhythm on my 12-string and then started to fuck around with Gilmore's little lead work...simple stuff. But I kind of realized how the notes in his lead work fell into the 12-strings rhythm. So I guess I'm approaching the whole things backwards but then again...I always have. It's still fun stuff.

And The_Naked_Stalk, that was a cool little bit of bass.

Elgyn's point about leaving spaces and silence is good. I don't think anyone will go in just one simple direction and we're not looking to press CDs here and put it out on the market, we're just here to fuck around so really, if something doesn't sound good than it should be no big deal. The whole idea could be another beautiful train-wreck-going-to-happen but I get the feeling there's enough talent in the responses so far to put together something workable. It doesn't have to be some Beethoven-esque masterpiece, it could just be a three-chord song with Adam Jones leads with a little snare, hi-hat and kick. Lord knows there's lots of songs out there that aren't necessarily complex.

The Ramones...Blitzkrieg Bop....wow....I think I could actually play that one...on all instruments. ; )

Let me explain modes to you in the simplest way that I can think of.

They're an invention of early musicians. There are seven modes. C-Major is the easiest way to show you.

In C Major we have C-D-E-F-G-A-B. All natural notes. Well modes basically use different scale degrees of the major scale as their tonic.

So you have this:

Ionian- C-C
Dorian- D-D
Phrygian- E-E
Lydian- F-F
Mixolydian- G-G
Aeolian- A-A
Locrian- B-B

The intervals used in each mode can be taken and applied to any key. For Example: D Mixolydian = D-E-F#-G-A-B-C. You need to work out the interval relationships between each scale degree in each mode to translate them to different keys.

So, knowing this, the next logical question is what the fuck was the point of that? Well, the answer is simple. Every mode (with the exception of Locrian) shares a close relationship with either the major or minor scale. So often modal melodies can be harmonized using the fundamentals of tonal harmony as outlined in major and minor keys. Modes basically add flavor to the minor or major system. This is a generalization, but it should work for our purposes.

Haha... well, Locrian is sort of like Phrygian, which is sort of like Aeolian... so it can probably be made to sound like either depending on which scale degrees you avoid, resulting in the Phrygian-ish pattern of that song. But I think that F was explicit enough to make it Locrian... there is no way a perfect fifth would fit.

Theory sucks... anyone have more ideas for a song?

Exactly. But you still have to think about how this would be harmonized. I suppose you could make the B-diminished as the tonic, but you'll never have a cadence in the song, unless you do a key change and let the B diminished resolve to C-Major or C-minor.

I must say thought that theory rocks. I'd be lost frequently without it.

I can play bass or guitar, but I'm better off on bass -- fear not: I have both an upright and a 5-string fretless (which has a two-octave fretboard) so my range is definately not limited to duplicating other bassists.

I'm at work right now, but I might try to lay something down later. I might make it a bit Les Claypool-ish, so that way an additional bass, guitar, percussion, et cetera could also fit in without duplicating (I hate bass duplication -- basses don't resonate well together because of their low frequency).

If you bassists haven't yet, you should check out Kai Eckhardt. Fantastic bass player that's fairly unknown. He's more structured than Jaco, but more melodic than Clarke -- a very fair medium between them.

oh yeah, curiosity strikes me -- how old are all of you, and how much playing experience?

I'm 18. I've been playing piano since i was 5. That gives me 'bout 13 years...

32 and I've had at least one guitar since I was 19. From 19 to 32 I've had no formal experience and never practiced with other people. I also haven't practiced religiously, more like off and on piddling. I've done more practicing in the past year and have had a couple personal breakthrough's on stuff.

I'm considering picking up a music class at the local CC just to get some theory in and the basics under my belt.

You probably can't monitor as you're recording if you've just got a Soundblaster or something, as they're not full duplex (can't input and output at the same time).

Do we really want that level of organisation??

Why don't we just mess about.

How about another forum for people to post up tracks for others to work on?

I'm willing to donate my otherwise-dead forum for this purpose.

All in favor, say "aye"

Is there an uploader in this forum, or will we need our own hosts? Either way...


"aye"

*aye*

did anyone check out the link i put to my tunes? :$ hehe...

Finding your own host would be preferrable. However, in dire emergencies I will handle the uploading of files on a case-to-case basis.

im in.

http://psysem.com:3146/whatever/forum/

...open for business. Register and help me form it into a better state

I kinda meant a new sub forum here or something

couldn't get onto your site, divine left. Doesn't seem to be working

Well guys, this certainly looks interesting and fun. I guess I'll help out if and when I'm needed. I play guitar and can mess around on bass. I know my modes and a fair amount of theory, so don't be afraid to mention some technical stuff to me if you need to.

I'm sixteen and have taken piano lessons for about five years, stopped for a few years and have forgotten pretty much everything. But I've played guitar for three years and have taken lessons for almost two of those. I play at least an hour a day.
I'd say that I'm a lot stronger at soloing than with chords. I have Pro Tools LE and could deffinately mix stuff if you need me to.

The only reason that I havn't posted in here yet is that I've been very busy lately and I've only a dialup connection, so I'm afraid that I won't be posting stuff up every day. Other than that, I'll help in any way I can. This is going to be very interesting and I'm happy to be involved any way I can.

Alright, I'm game. There are a lot of bassists, so I'll limit my contributions to fills, and weird tapping ambient noise type stuff, if all in favor.

I can also write and sing, but i need to get my nose fixed before I can really sing the way I should, and I don't find out when that'll be until next Tuesday. So it could be a couple months before I lay down a vocal track.

I have recording capabilities for vocals at the moment, but not bass, because I can't figure out how to get cool edit pro to record something and knock off 15 db.

I, like Darkened Feeling, know modes, theory, lots of scales, can read music, ect.

I might be able to get a guitar for this project and do a rhythm-type guitar part as well ... if I can buy a guitar osmetime soon

i joined the forum, and what i'd like to say here, i said at the forum, so here's a link.

http://psysem.com:3146/whatever/foru....php?p=400#400

(i like the layout of the forum Divine_Left... but with my suggestions, it might need to be changed)

Count me in,

I like your idea Matteran.

Still can't get on to the damn forum.
It doesn't like me
boohoohoo

nice idea divine left. i won't have much to contribute, but perhaps some of you can point me in the direction of some advice, re: scales, time sigs, and just about everything in general, though i'll leave that for the other forum.

Yeah... I've had... 8 years of band and 5 years of piano lessons and I still don't know a damn about theory..... don't feel too horrible, even though you've been playing way longer than me.

I know most all of the official sheet reading notes on clarinet, and well, I'm sufficient at that. I can only remember how to read the treble cleff for piano, and can't remember any left hand rhythmn things at all, not even simple chords. I remember most right hand melodies that I liked though.

I'm sure if I dicked around with some beginner piano books for a week or so it'd come back to me, but I quit piano at like... 12 or something.... maybe even younger, it just didn't interest me and the lessons and scheduled practicing just wasn't my thing... but I still think I practiced for 5 damn years... ugh.

And all that theory/knowledge is lost somewhere inside my poor little head.

As for guitar I'm about to hit 2 years of playing and I really suck. Now if I have time off and I spend 2-3 days playing >2 casual hours a day I get back into my groove and I feel more self esteem about my skills, but I mean... shit I'm so sloppy it isn't even funny.

Mainly lead work is where it hurts me the most... I always get tons of unwanted noise and buzz and shit and well.... the only lead I can get to sound sweet and orgasmic is the Fade to Black intro solo minus the fast notes, but I'm not sure if I play them in the right time, probably not.

I've been playing the lateralus rhythmn for at least a year and I still seem to suck at it sometimes, though I know understand the correct timing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that theory seems to be very important (not being a theory snob, just general knowledge) in developing your musical skills. Within 2 years of clarinet/piano I could at least feel that I was the shiznit (and was the best clarinetist for a long time till apathy struck me and I had self confidence problems). 2 years of guitar and well...... I can't speak too highly of myself.

That doesn't mean I'm not capable of writing simplistic songs or functioning in an average band with practice, it's just that I'd probably go the route of Adam in terms of technicality the way I'm progressing now. That might be a good thing, though, I don't know.

maybe my bro could get in on this one, he can do pretty much any song if the tabs are good, and we have some kind of a music mixer software i think we can record his guitar to, you can even lay on drums or piano and all kinds of stuff for rock, techno and hip hop. lemme see if i can find all the cords that plug in to the PC...

didnt read any of the replies, but the easiest way would be for everyone to jst contribute a track of some sort that everyone can download, then everyone can mix and match at will, and make their own mp3 or whatever. We could post em then and see where everyone put everything together.

k, listened to what has bene posting thus far. I'll post some stuff I write to go along with some of the bass riffs that have been out, as well as just some general riffs.

sorry for triple post, but i'm assuming everything that is being posted here is up for some chopping and editing? Yes? If anyone doesn't want their shit touched let me know plz.

Oh yeah, in response to Locrian sounding like Phrygian etc etc ... Locrian doesn't sound like any other scale -because- it uses a diminished triad. For example, a C Locrian would be C, Eb, Gb. All the other modes us a minor or major triad. That's why music in locrian is a bit unstable -- major and minor triads are pretty stable, but a diminished resolves to a minor. About the only semistable song I've heard in that mode was in F# locrian, titled "All Apologies" by Nirvana.

You should read my post, I've already explained this. Locrian has NO stability (in conventional terms, and by conventional terms, I'm excluding 20th century music). Diminished intervals typically resolve inward, creating a doubling of the root (in four-part writing a tripling). For example, B diminished in C Major (B-D-F) resolves to C-C-E (C-C-Eb in minor c minor), since we all know that B being the leading tone in C wants to resolve upwards to C. When a diminshed triad resolves to a minor chord, it's more commonly done with a leading tone 7th chord (half-diminished in Major keys, fully diminished in minor keys). In "a" minor this would be G#-B-D-F. Also, don't confuse chord quality with chord stability. If you're playing I-V-I-I64-V- in a steady harmonic rhythm You've played all major chords, but that V chord wants to go to I pretty bad.

And "All Apologies" is not in Locrian. That's ludicrous. It has a D tonality. It's D Mixolydian, in fact (if my memory serves me correctly). I'm not trying to be mean, but this is careless and could confuse a lot of other people.

LESS THEORY, MORE RIFFS PLZ.

Bear with me, my guitar and effects unit are our of my reach, or I would contribute. I flat out can't record anything right now.

Im sure I can contribute something in this. Of course right now I cant being in school and all but Im with Holy on the background/ambient kind of thing. I hardly write things down/record them. Im usually buzzing or somthing when i play and I either forget or i just go into something else without realizing what I just did. But Id be more then happy to contribute.

So if anyone hasn't posted anything to work with yet...?? I'm gonna do up some drum loops tonight, maybe some guitar riffs too...i'll upload them soon & let you folks know.

Alright, I didn't actually expect myself to post anything but I've been piddling and came up with something that's been stuck in my head for the past few days.

Constructive criticism is welcome. Bear in mind I have no musical background and this is just me fucking around. I'm just using the little built in rhythm deal on my rp200 at 138bpm and (trying) to keep the rhythm using the open A string and walking the box between the 3rd and 5th frets followed by moving down to the 2nd/3rd frets to the 5th fret and back before heading back to the 3rd/5th box. As you can see by my lame description I lack any sense of terminology. It's just a bastardized chorused guitar which I layer with more chorus in CEPro along with normalizing it down 80%.

Anyhow, being as this is the first thing that I've pulled out of my ass that I actually enjoy fucking with here's the mp3 to "Philemon" which is just a random name picked up while reading a book.

Again, it's rough and I'm still soaking it up to figure out how I want to refine it.

~cheers

I'm still stuck piddling off of the riff in the last post. It kind of mutated in another direction in the latest mp3. This one switched from the chorus in the last one to a cleaner, delay sound. Again, it's rough, but I'm digging the jamming.

If anyone has ideas for bass or whatnot I'd like to hear'em. Hell, even just a 'fuck you suck' would suffice. That'll give me steam to keep plugging away.

I've been listening to this stuff, and some of it is really good. The overall style comes across as very aphex.